On Playing For One's Country

[HabGirlYVR]

Here's a very interesting article on players rejecting invitations to play for their national teams.

http://www.iihf.com/en/home-of-hockey/news....html?tx_ttnews

I have to say, I really agree with this...

[kiprusoffk]

Here's a very interesting article on players rejecting invitations to play for their national teams.

http://www.iihf.com/en/home-of-hockey/news....html?tx_ttnews

I have to say, I really agree with this...

Completely disagree....as I'm sure the IIHF does also. This tournament is a victim of its date, plain and simple. From what i hear IIHF is completely detaching itself from this gentleman's remarks and he will probably be dismissed from his position.

[HabGirlYVR]

No, I think you're missing the point being made.

The author isn't saying anything against players whose clubs are still engaged in the playoffs in their leagues - he's levelling the charges against those whose teams are OUT of the playoffs...

...if their club is still playing, that's a valid excuse, in both my view and, as I understand it, the view of the article's author. But what is NOT a valid excuse is turning down the invitation to go play for your national team, if your club side is already golfing.

I haven't heard anything about the IIHF distancing itself from the author's position (source?)... and if they were, I'm sure they wouldn't still have the article linked their on their front page!

[kiprusoffk]

This was all a PR ploy for the IIHF to get some headlines and try to get somebody to care about this tournament. I don't call it "turning your back on your country"...Crosby has answered the call many many times for his country. This Championship just doesn't carry much weight over here, just one of those things. I don't blame some guys for not going. The guy who wrote the article is the IIHF Communications Director. TheFan590 and Tsn shows tried to get somebody from the IIHF or this gentleman on to discuss but was told they were not interested in discussing the situation??? Call it what you will, i say thats distancing itself from the comments. They sure aren't going to win over any NHL players by taking verbal swipes at them. Just my opinion.

[fourtrax]

Thing is, he isn't targeting only NHL players. He is equally upset with players from the European leagues shrugging off the Worlds. In fact, he blasted the 20-something Czech players who turned down a chance to play for their country at the Worlds.

[Bean-Counting-Hab]

Interesting article. Only thing I really disagree with is the point he makes where if a player isn't too injurred to play in the payoffs, he should shouldn't be too injurred to play for his country.

Let's take a torn ACL as an example. You may be in a position where you can play on it, but you risk making it worse / may ultimately need surgery to fix it. It could be worth the risk to both your team and yourself to try playing on it in say Conference or Stanley Cup finals. However, I don't think you should be expected to take those same risks to play for your country, and would go as far as saying it could be viewed as a lack of responsibility towards your employer.

Also, if you're country has a lot of depth (like Canada), then a minor injury could actually make a player less effective than a readily available healthy player who is close in skill.

Ultimately though, I agree players should feel a duty to answer the bell when they are able. One thing the article makes clear is that Russia should be a lock this year.

[Mathradio]

The biggest piece among these 100+ players is, of course, Sidney Crosby.

[kiprusoffk]

The biggest piece among these 100+ players is, of course, Sidney Crosby.

Yeah thats a bit of a stretch for me. What more can we ask of this guy??? Olympics, Stanley cup finals the previous 2 years, 13 playoff games this year and the guy is finally moving out of Mario's house this summer!!! LOL I don't care what this guy says, that has to take a toll on one's body. He tends to forget that these guys are playing a demanding physical sport against the biggest and best players in the world most of the year around. Perhaps many of us would like to have a job being a pencil pusher for the IIHF like this guy as well???

[Mathradio]

Yeah thats a bit of a stretch for me. What more can we ask of this guy??? Olympics, Stanley cup finals the previous 2 years, 13 playoff games this year and the guy is finally moving out of Mario's house this summer!!! LOL I don't care what this guy says, that has to take a toll on one's body. He tends to forget that these guys are playing a demanding physical sport against the biggest and best players in the world most of the year around. Perhaps many of us would like to have a job being a pencil pusher for the IIHF like this guy as well???

Malkin could have refused, yet, he suffered from the same treatment as his teammate and decided to go to the Worlds anyway.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Nobody is under any form of obligation to go to this tournament. Are they being paid? Are they being insured?

Especially in an Olympic year, if a player has no interest in playing in what's become an "extra" tournament, then they don't have to. Maybe the IIHF should worry more about bettering the cred of this tournament and make it at a more convenient time to draw the world's best players rather than being crybabies because a player whose probably played over 100 games (pre-season+ Olympics + reg season and/or playoffs) doesn't want to play in your consolation prize.

[tmash]

This Championship just doesn't carry much weight over here, just one of those things. I don't blame some guys for not going.

The same can be said for most "World Championships", I mean I watched Olympic Luge, do I ever watch Luge World Championships? Yet Olympic athletes go to the World Championships, because on top of wanting to, they need to in order to qualify for the Olympics. That is the distinction I think some people fail to make, this isn't just some random tournmanet, it is de facto part of the Olympics. But the thing is, NHL players like Crosby, know that others will go to the tournament and fight in his place so Canada will qualify for Olympic hockey and he can go and get all the fame (realistically, even if we send all AHL players, Canada will still be good enough to qualify for the Olympics considering 12 teams make it).

Yet another reason I don't like having NHL players in the Olympics, they simply have an entirely different mentality than real "Olympians". No other Olympian has the right or option to say "The World Championships aren't important enough for me to go". They have to go, but with hockey the stars know "someone will go in my place and reserve my spot for me". Let's resurect the Canada/World Cup for the pros, and leave the Olympics to players who are truly committed to it.

[Mathradio]

Except that if we sent all the best AHLers we could into the fray, with no NHLers that were thrown out of the playoffs (or, worse still, not even playing them) in the mix, we would barely make the top 8 or 9 even when these top 8 or 9 positions carry with them automatic Olympic qualification.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

The same can be said for most "World Championships", I mean I watched Olympic Luge, do I ever watch Luge World Championships? Yet Olympic athletes go to the World Championships, because on top of wanting to, they need to in order to qualify for the Olympics. That is the distinction I think some people fail to make, this isn't just some random tournmanet, it is de facto part of the Olympics. But the thing is, NHL players like Crosby, know that others will go to the tournament and fight in his place so Canada will qualify for Olympic hockey and he can go and get all the fame (realistically, even if we send all AHL players, Canada will still be good enough to qualify for the Olympics considering 12 teams make it).

Yet another reason I don't like having NHL players in the Olympics, they simply have an entirely different mentality than real "Olympians". No other Olympian has the right or option to say "The World Championships aren't important enough for me to go". They have to go, but with hockey the stars know "someone will go in my place and reserve my spot for me". Let's resurect the Canada/World Cup for the pros, and leave the Olympics to players who are truly committed to it.

That's an excellent point, bc for those who care about Int. Play, look what happened to the US this year. Silver Medal at the Olympics, but then crapped out at the WC, which detrimentally hurts your rankings.

Just this time around, don't let KHL'ers and SEL'ers compete in the Olympics. Amateurs only.

[tmash]

That's an excellent point, bc for those who care about Int. Play, look what happened to the US this year. Silver Medal at the Olympics, but then crapped out at the WC, which detrimentally hurts your rankings.

Just this time around, don't let KHL'ers and SEL'ers compete in the Olympics. Amateurs only.

Yet you know the US will never drop to the point that they aren't in the Olympics. NHL players know this, so they can't be bothered to "qualify" for the very tournament they get allthe pride, fame, and glory for competing in.

Honestly, if a pro player doesn't want to play for their country, that's their choice. What bothers me is being perfectly happy to play in a high-profile tournament, but then letting someone else qualify for you. Although it's not very realistic, I think it would be fair to say "if you want to play in the Olympics, you must play in World Championships unless you're injured or in the playoffs (or other good excuses obviously)"

[Twillightzone]

This was all a PR ploy for the IIHF to get some headlines and try to get somebody to care about this tournament. I don't call it "turning your back on your country"...Crosby has answered the call many many times for his country. This Championship just doesn't carry much weight over here, just one of those things. I don't blame some guys for not going. The guy who wrote the article is the IIHF Communications Director. TheFan590 and Tsn shows tried to get somebody from the IIHF or this gentleman on to discuss but was told they were not interested in discussing the situation??? Call it what you will, i say thats distancing itself from the comments. They sure aren't going to win over any NHL players by taking verbal swipes at them. Just my opinion.

Its to bad many stars today dont get over and play in WC if they are fresh and out of the Stanley Cup play off's. Its down to a lottery the last decade for the big teams if they will get a very good team together or not. Its the very opinion you have ("dont care") that is gettein a team like Can out in the quater finals in this year for ex.

Their loss to be honest. What worrys me is if to many established players only has pride every 4th year....then the hockey world is in big trouble imo.

Bet you next years WC will get more stars due to no Olympics, as simple as that.

The same can be said for most "World Championships", I mean I watched Olympic Luge, do I ever watch Luge World Championships? Yet Olympic athletes go to the World Championships, because on top of wanting to, they need to in order to qualify for the Olympics. That is the distinction I think some people fail to make, this isn't just some random tournmanet, it is de facto part of the Olympics. But the thing is, NHL players like Crosby, know that others will go to the tournament and fight in his place so Canada will qualify for Olympic hockey and he can go and get all the fame (realistically, even if we send all AHL players, Canada will still be good enough to qualify for the Olympics considering 12 teams make it).

Yet another reason I don't like having NHL players in the Olympics, they simply have an entirely different mentality than real "Olympians". No other Olympian has the right or option to say "The World Championships aren't important enough for me to go". They have to go, but with hockey the stars know "someone will go in my place and reserve my spot for me". Let's resurect the Canada/World Cup for the pros, and leave the Olympics to players who are truly committed to it.

I agree with this statement compleatly. To add to your ideas, make the WC go every second year instead of every year. Then players wont get as many chances for it anymore. Might help some, who knows.

Personally i am tierd of players that says no without any real explaniation or reason. if you're injuried or dry of emotion or have some big personal thing I understand it. There are those that been in on many WC and up there in age, they I can understand to, other then that its a no no in my book to say no to your country. This year over 30 players said no to the Swedish team (from NHL alone), its becomming a parody. Time to cradle up a new generation of players that want this and have some pride. One good thing from all no's though, we get to see many younger and future stars comming into the international stage (remember Jagr back in 90 or if it was 91, good times), and its always fun to see motivated players.

[kiprusoffk]

Yay... the russians beat our "F" team!!!! LOL. Seriously though.....this has been an issue since they went to the NHL players way back in the 1970's. It'll never change. Mario always said no when the Penguins stunk. right or wrong, its just the way it is, even worse with the salaries these guys are making. If a guy has played for his country in the past, I don't hold it against him to miss one.

[tavec]

Yeah thats a bit of a stretch for me. What more can we ask of this guy??? Olympics, Stanley cup finals the previous 2 years, 13 playoff games this year and the guy is finally moving out of Mario's house this summer!!! LOL I don't care what this guy says, that has to take a toll on one's body. He tends to forget that these guys are playing a demanding physical sport against the biggest and best players in the world most of the year around. Perhaps many of us would like to have a job being a pencil pusher for the IIHF like this guy as well???

I agree so lets bring back the Canada Cup or something like that in the end of August! Some of the best hockey was played in those tournaments.

[tmash]

To add to your ideas, make the WC go every second year instead of every year. Then players wont get as many chances for it anymore. Might help some, who knows

I wouldn't go that route actually, and the reason it's once again catering to NHL players. Do other sports have world championships every second year (actual question)? Unless the answer is yes (and I don't mean one other sport, I mean the typical "olympic" sports), hockey shouldn't do it either.

Yay... the russians beat our "F" team!!!! LOL. Seriously though.....this has been an issue since they went to the NHL players way back in the 1970's. It'll never change. Mario always said no when the Penguins stunk. right or wrong, its just the way it is, even worse with the salaries these guys are making. If a guy has played for his country in the past, I don't hold it against him to miss one.

To be fair though, at least prior to 98, NHL players couldn't play in the Olympics (or well, the Olympics allowed it, but the NHL didn't give them the time off). So from the 70s when pros were allowed in the Olympics until just before 98, at least it isn't a case of NHL players getting to the Olympics without having to qualify, which is my problem.

[Twillightzone]

I wouldn't go that route actually, and the reason it's once again catering to NHL players. Do other sports have world championships every second year (actual question)? Unless the answer is yes (and I don't mean one other sport, I mean the typical "olympic" sports), hockey shouldn't do it either.

I belive the track & field is now every second year (used to be every forth and then you have the Soccer WC wich of course is every 4 th (same with ESC). So to answer your question, many sports do, yes.

[kiprusoffk]

IIHF finally responds to crticism:

http://sports.ca.msn.com/nhl/news/cbc-arti...mentid=24307438

[tavec]

I belive the track & field is now every second year (used to be every forth and then you have the Soccer WC wich of course is every 4 th (same with ESC). So to answer your question, many sports do, yes.

I am for every 2-4 years. The world cup of soccer is every 4 years and that is why it is so exciting. Also, for the players and teams that normally make it in to the 2-3rd rounds if I own a team i would be very hesitant to send my best players to europe or wherever the worlds are to play. Most players want a break after a grueling season and playoff run IMO. I believe that is why Crosby and someother stars decided againist the commitment. They are tired and worn out and ned the chance to heel and mentally take a break. IMO

GO HABS GO

[kiprusoffk]

I am for every 2-4 years. The world cup of soccer is every 4 years and that is why it is so exciting. Also, for the players and teams that normally make it in to the 2-3rd rounds if I own a team i would be very hesitant to send my best players to europe or wherever the worlds are to play. Most players want a break after a grueling season and playoff run IMO. I believe that is why Crosby and someother stars decided againist the commitment. They are tired and worn out and ned the chance to heel and mentally take a break. IMO

GO HABS GO

True....some have very young kids as well that I'm sure they don't get to be around as much as they would hope. So many factors go into adding another few weeks onto a season for each individual. I think its pretty easy for a guy behind a desk to throw darts at individuals when he has no idea the circumstances for said player on declining.

[tavec]

True....some have very young kids as well that I'm sure they don't get to be around as much as they would hope. So many factors go into adding another few weeks onto a season for each individual. I think its pretty easy for a guy behind a desk to throw darts at individuals when he has no idea the circumstances for said player on declining.

Completely agree. I cant stand when people make decisions behind the desk when they never played at a high level or do not consult people who have. It doesnt help the players or the game. IMO

GO HABS GO

[Mathradio]

I'm in for holding the Worlds on odd-numbered years.

[HabGirlYVR]

Well, predictable... the IIHF does something, and the next instant it quails to pressure from one side or another. Makes it hard for me to respect them too much... what happened to saying, "no, sorry, this is our view and we're sticking with it"?

But, NHL, KHL, everyone knows that as soon as you say "Um, just a moment," the IIHF will change its tune, so nobody pays much attention to what they say.

As far as the worlds go... I don't think soccer's example can be followed well in terms of structure and frequency of competitions; hockey isn't big enough globally. So, the World Championships must be maintained, to give competitions into which all hockey-playing nations can compete. In Olympic years, the Olympic tournament could/should be viewed simulataneously as being that year's Pool A World Championship - so no separate Olympic qualification competitions would be needed... but to make this happen, either the A Pool needs to be reduced to 12 teams, or the Olympic field expanded to 16 teams. Each has its own positives and negatives, but expanding the Olympic field to 16 would be the more problematic, due to scheduling reasons.

So, the best choice there is to reduce the A Pool to 12 teams, with Division One being expanded by four from 12 to 16 teams (further adjustments need to be made in D1, as well - instead of the group structure used now, there should be seeded groups like at the IHWC or the soccer World Cup, to improve the competitions; thus the D1 world championship would be like the A Pool competition now, structurally. Divisions 2 and 3 need some attention too, but are not directly relevant to this right now).

Scheduling of the IHWC needs the most attention. To ensure that the competition is truly that of a best-on-best nature, it needs to be moved. I doubt the NHL would want to take a mid-season break every year... but perhaps if the IHWC happens in September, NHL teams might be willing to let their players play in the IHWC instead of meaningless NHL preseason games (which could then be put to better use in assessing prospects and fringe players trying to make the big team). And if that doesn't work... then have the IHWC in June or July or August. Then, all players will be free to join their national teams, as no club competitions are taking place during that time.

A lot of thought needs to go into all of this, but short form, due to the state of hockey, a yearly international competition of significance is needed. If it gets cut to every four years, or even every two years, that could potentially jeopardise the hockey programs in smaller countries or countries still in the early phases of building the sport. (However, to that end, more competitions like the Asian Challenge Cup, the Arab Cup and the African Nations' Cup (yes, of hockey) could be created).

So in sum, I agree that things need to be changed - but the only thing that absolutely needs to stay the same is to have a significant international competition for all divisions every year.