Why Is Racism Accepted In Hockey?

[dfrancis]

Why is what is essentially racism accepted in hockey?

Imagine if you were to go in to work tomorrow, and tell your boss they should fire all the "foreigners" and hire "good Canadian boys" like we hear all the time in hockey? I'm not saying the league should mandate affirmative action or anything like that, but I just find it strange that people who aren't explicitly racist in their normal daily lives are very racist when it comes to hockey, and many are convinced that a Canadian player with equal skill to a player from another country is better because of "Canadian heart" or whatever TSN preaches around World Junior time. Sure, the average Canadian fan might have more "heart" than the average American fan, but I'm not convinced that there is some intangible Canadian heart quality that puts Canada above the rest at hockey. Without a doubt, Canada is the best hockey nation in the world, but it's not that people from Canada are inherently good hockey players, just that more people play in Canada and have better opportunities for development.

I just don't get it, how suggesting that people from one country are inherently better would be completely ridiculous in real life, but in hockey it's OK.

[johnnym]

great thread, hard to answer...

And its not just hockey...

Black vs white in the NBA

Hispanic and Japanese vs everyone else in MLB...

[Guest]

Don Cherry syndrome.

[RSD]

i think youre thinking prejudice here...because nazim kadri would be considered a good canadian boy, with canadian heart...but clearly of a minority race of people...

[Mathradio]

On the other hand, hockey is in a globalization process. There is no longer much of a gap between the top 7 hockey nations in the world and the rest of the hockey world. Maybe, one day, there could be a Summit Series, similar to 1972, except that Canada's opponent would be China instead.

[ruuvimeisseli]

Don cherry

[tmash]

Black vs white in the NBA

Hispanic and Japanese vs everyone else in MLB...

white vs white in hockey

[SteenIsThaFuture]

white vs white in hockey

About to say, how can a sport be racist when everyone is of the same race? lol If anything the issue is there's a lack of blacks in hockey, well under 5%, you could struggle trying to name 10 active African-American players.

The anti-Euro thing is ridiculous though, and the Cherry/media outlook has tainted fans opinions to the point where if a Euro make a soft play, he's a lazy Euro, whereas if its a Canadian, he's in a slump or fatigued.

[DA_Champion]

Sports appeal to our baser instincts.

[tmash]

About to say, how can a sport be racist when everyone is of the same race? lol If anything the issue is there's a lack of blacks in hockey, well under 5%, you could struggle trying to name 10 active African-American players.

And after African-Americans (well most of them are African-Canadians) and a few natives, there's really no races left. I mean there's no full Asians (Kariya brothers are half Japanese I believe), no hispanics I can think of, Kadri would be one of the first middle eastern ethnicity players, etc.

The anti-Euro thing is ridiculous though, and the Cherry/media outlook has tainted fans opinions to the point where if a Euro make a soft play, he's a lazy Euro, whereas if its a Canadian, he's in a slump or fatigued.

Although Europeans do get a bit more flack, it happens to Canadians as well (Ribiero and Spezza are a couple examples from Canadian teams). Canadians do get blamed for being lazy, floaters, soft, etc; however, it's never because "they're Canadian" (in other words, you don't see Spezza and go "typical soft Canadian")

[ruuvimeisseli]

That lazy soft european called chara

[RSD]

And after African-Americans (well most of them are African-Canadians) and a few natives, there's really no races left. I mean there's no full Asians (Kariya brothers are half Japanese I believe), no hispanics I can think of, Kadri would be one of the first middle eastern ethnicity players, etc.

many malhotra is half punjabi and there was a fully punjabi player in the 90s last name bawa i believe...born in canada though...lol but yeah, i dont know if its racism as much as it is prejudice...

[Manatee-X]

While I agree with most of the posts above, you still have to keep in mind that some stereotypes (key word: some) are at least grounded in reality.

Now I'm not talking about 'lazy Euros' or anything like that, but there's a case to be made that North Americans (in general, not in every specific case) might have more of a base emotional attachment to winning the Stanley Cup than do Europeans (again in general). When I played street hockey with my friends as a kid I can tell you that I never onced raised my hands after a goal pretending that I'd won the Olympics or the World Cup for Canada... I was scoring the winning goal in game 7 for the Montreal Canadiens (hey, a guy can dream ).

If you're doubtful, I think it's even easier to make the case the other way around. I remember seeing Kovulchuk crying after he won the World Cup for Russia a few years back... can you ever remember a Canadian coming close to showing that much emotion in that tournament?

Now this obviously does not hold true for every individual player, and it also might be becoming less true with the younger players because of the whole globalization phenomenon. And some people are just super-competitive (Ovechkin, for example) and go all-out no matter what they're playing for. But sometimes there are actual differences between different nationalities, and pointing them out is not always showing racism.

[FirstStar]

I think some are too quick to play the racist card... Trust me, I know wht it's like to be a minority (even though I'm a white catholic boy). I grew up in a poor neighborhood of Detroit, I was one of 3 white kids in the whole school.

I feel that some take patriotism as a sign of racism. Mats Naslund was the 1st European to join the habs in the 80's. After his and a few other European success, all the teams started looking over-sea's to find the next hidden talent. Those who were promoting "hockey Canada", didn't want teams and GM's to forget about the home grown talent we had right in our back yards. As soon as some team finds a kid from a European country who excels, every other GM in the league takes notice and that's why you see drafting trends. One year it'll be one country who gets noticed in the draft, the following year it's another.

When it comes to the draft and minor league players, I feel it's more like... Hey, you might find a star over-sea's but don't forget about all the kids working their butts off here.

Someone else mentioned prejudice, I think that's right... Along with stereotyping. Often European players get stereotyped due to players who have come before him.

[Manatee-X]

As an aside, I should add to my last post that I do think that there actually is some racism/bigotry by some memeber of the hockey community, especially the media and fans. There are some damn tough European players, and I don't for a second think their nationality has any bearing on it.

[Manatee-X]

I think some are too quick to play the racist card... Trust me, I know wht it's like to be a minority (even though I'm a white catholic boy). I grew up in a poor neighborhood of Detroit, I was one of 3 white kids in the whole school.

I feel that some take patriotism as a sign of racism. Mats Naslund was the 1st European to join the habs in the 80's. After his and a few other European success, all the teams started looking over-sea's to find the next hidden talent. Those who were promoting "hockey Canada", didn't want teams and GM's to forget about the home grown talent we had right in our back yards. As soon as some team finds a kid from a European country who excels, every other GM in the league takes notice and that's why you see drafting trends. One year it'll be one country who gets noticed in the draft, the following year it's another.

When it comes to the draft and minor league players, I feel it's more like... Hey, you might find a star over-sea's but don't forget about all the kids working their butts off here.

Someone else mentioned prejudice, I think that's right... Along with stereotyping. Often European players get stereotyped due to players who have come before him.

I think that's an important point, FS. For whatever reason, the game of hockey developed differently in Europe. Be it the larger ice surface, different rules, the lack of a 'Broad Street Bullies' to make everyone want to go out and sign bruisers... whatever it was, European ice hockey was traditionally a much more 'East-West' style of game.

That's not to say that there aren't Europeans better suited to play North-South or that there aren't Canadians better suited to play East-West, but the first Europeans to come over were simply trained to play differently than the NA players who were already here.

[tmash]

If you're doubtful, I think it's even easier to make the case the other way around. I remember seeing Kovulchuk crying after he won the World Cup for Russia a few years back... can you ever remember a Canadian coming close to showing that much emotion in that tournament?

I'm assuming you mean World Championships (I don't think Russia has won a World Cup since the 80s)?

But anyways, while it's probably true North American players have more connection to the Stanley Cup (even today, while I'm sure there's more NHL fans in Russia than before, there aren't any local teams or anything like that), I think that's starting to be reduced. The fall of the Soviet Union and NHL players participating in World Championships and the Olympics, there is less distinction than there once was. And really, most people play hard to win. Whether that's the Stanley Cup, the Calder Cup, whatever the KHL championship is, players need to want to win. I mean, over in Russia when a Canadian has a bad game in the KHL (and no Canadian ever grew up dreaming of winning the KHL championships - even if the KHL existed back then), do they go "typical soft Canadian doesn't care about the KHL"?

[chrisjamessauve]

What's wrong with patriotism? I'm proud to be Canadian, why wouldn't I brag about Canada being the best at hockey? We are! And of course, you look at who wins the Stanley Cup every year, the majority of the team has Canadians on its roster. There's a difference between racism at patriotism.

[SteenIsThaFuture]

What's wrong with patriotism? I'm proud to be Canadian, why wouldn't I brag about Canada being the best at hockey? We are! And of course, you look at who wins the Stanley Cup every year, the majority of the team has Canadians on its roster. There's a difference between racism at patriotism.

Lol, that line gets pushed on a regular basis.

"Stupid Americans what do they know about hockey"

"Draft a good Canadian boy, not another soft Russian"

"A German? When did Germany start playing hockey?"

"Typical lazy Euro"

I mean Canada's only good at one sport, so maybe its an inferiority complex that makes Canadians constantly propel themselves to the top of the hockey pile. While they are the best, for the last few years they have been severely challenged in the International stage. USA won this year's WJC and U18's, Russia the last 2 WC's, Sweden the 2006 Olympics. Its not as big a separation as it once was.

Disclaimer: I AM a Canadian. Born and raised in MTL for 90% of my life.

[kiprusoffk]

Lol, that line gets pushed on a regular basis.

"Stupid Americans what do they know about hockey"

"Draft a good Canadian boy, not another soft Russian"

"A German? When did Germany start playing hockey?"

"Typical lazy Euro"

I mean Canada's only good at one sport, so maybe its an inferiority complex that makes Canadians constantly propel themselves to the top of the hockey pile. While they are the best, for the last few years they have been severely challenged in the International stage. USA won this year's WJC and U18's, Russia the last 2 WC's, Sweden the 2006 Olympics. Its not as big a separation as it once was.

Disclaimer: I AM a Canadian. Born and raised in MTL for 90% of my life.

Canada is only good at one sport???????????????

[tmash]

I mean Canada's only good at one sport

Either that is a subtle joke or you slept through the whole Olympics ...

[SteenIsThaFuture]

Canada is only good at one sport???????????????

In Olympic winter sports, they're pretty high up, however in the major NA sports, what exactly are they good at?

Baseball? way behind the Hispanic and Asian nations. Basketball? Don't make me laugh? Football? If you call their minor league joke league good then yes.

Their biggest acclaim to golf is Mike Weir, Tennis they got nothing going. Racing not that I'm aware of. Boxing is a joke, MMA they have GSP.

But what sport do they have multiple big names in and have a somewhat steady stream of quality athletes, not even stars, just quality athletes.

Either that is a subtle joke or you slept through the whole Olympics ...

Had a feeling I was going to get called on that.

[Manatee-X]

I'm assuming you mean World Championships (I don't think Russia has won a World Cup since the 80s)?

But anyways, while it's probably true North American players have more connection to the Stanley Cup (even today, while I'm sure there's more NHL fans in Russia than before, there aren't any local teams or anything like that), I think that's starting to be reduced. The fall of the Soviet Union and NHL players participating in World Championships and the Olympics, there is less distinction than there once was. And really, most people play hard to win. Whether that's the Stanley Cup, the Calder Cup, whatever the KHL championship is, players need to want to win. I mean, over in Russia when a Canadian has a bad game in the KHL (and no Canadian ever grew up dreaming of winning the KHL championships - even if the KHL existed back then), do they go "typical soft Canadian doesn't care about the KHL"?

Yeah, sorry, I did mean the World Championships (it was the one held in Halifax/Québec City, if I'm not mistaken).

And I don't really disagree with any of what you said, to be honest. I do think that there's a lot more cross-over between the two tournaments now. NHL players started skating in international competition is a big part of it, and I'm sure there's a kid outside somewhere scoring Crosby's 'golden goal' even as I'm writing this.

Even still, you'd have to think that, generally speaking, the Stanley Cup as a prize may mean more to Canadians/Americans. And I'm not even trying to say that a Canucks might more about winning the league championship, just the trophy that comes with it (if that makes any sense at all).

In any case, though, I don't think that has anything to do with Europeans being percieved as soft, it was just an example of a stereotype that might actually have some basis in reality. As for that soft perception (and no, I don't think it applies today) I think FirstStar hit it right on when he said that it comes from opinions that people formed a long time ago when we North Americans got our first taste of European hockey and hockey players. It's not even that those players were any weaker or more lazy than Canadian players were at the time, they just played a different style of game.

Do I think that KHL fans think of Canadians as being soft? No, for the exact same reason. When Canada played the USSR in '72 the Ruskies surprised in a lot of ways. They became known as very skilled players, and also very tough players in terms of conditioning. They didn't, however, really play a tough style of game. When the Red Army came to the states to play Philly they were so beaten up by the Broad Street Bullies after a few periods that they refused to finish the game. So do I think the Russians consider Canadian players soft? They probably consider us dirty, no good cheats (and they're probably right ) but I doubt that soft is a problem.

Anyway, it is what it is. There is a lot of prejudice, and I don't like it. At the same time there are a lot of things that are perceived as prejudice and may have another source. Like most things, there can be a lot of gray area.

Was Sergei Kostitsyn singled out because he was a lazy Belarussian? Maybe, yes. Another possibility was he just didn't adjust well to coming to a new continent and being asked to live and play in a language he didn't speak and adapt to some unfamiliar customs. If that's the case it was caused because he was Belarussian, but not because of any prejudices. Most likely it's somewhere in between the two (or maybe he's just a kid with a bad attitude)

[Fanpuck33]

I think it's a simple case of even 5-10 years ago Europeans couldn't really grow up watching the NHL and making the Stanley Cup the focus of their career desires. Canadians obviously grew up with just that. Thus, it's not difficult to understand why many believe that Canadians play with more effort or heart than Europeans, who are seen as simply coming here because of the bigger paydays. Guys like Radulov just reinforce that stereotype. This stereotype won't hold any water in the coming years though, as it's become easier and easier to follow the NHL around the world, so buys won't simply be growing up with their local leagues anymore.

[FirstStar]

I think that's an important point, FS. For whatever reason, the game of hockey developed differently in Europe. Be it the larger ice surface, different rules, the lack of a 'Broad Street Bullies' to make everyone want to go out and sign bruisers... whatever it was, European ice hockey was traditionally a much more 'East-West' style of game.

That's not to say that there aren't Europeans better suited to play North-South or that there aren't Canadians better suited to play East-West, but the first Europeans to come over were simply trained to play differently than the NA players who were already here.

Yes, that is the big point... I think the reason why Russians are "sometimes" pegged as being lazy, is cos once again, the 1st wave of Russians (in 88, after the fall of communism) gave Russian players a bad reputation. But what a most people don't realize, is that the 1st wave of Russians came from the old Russian ways. A lot were given steroids (as told in the book "Gretzky to Lemieux") during their training-which lasted 10 months out of the year, they were only allowed to see their families for 2 months out of the year. When communism fell, so did the old way of doing things (such as the 10 months of training), a lot came here out of shape and probably in some form of detox due to the years of being fed steroids. Also the culture shock, from a communist country who dictated their every move, to total freedom. The 1st wave of Russians found the transition very hard, not so much due to different style of hockey and the size of the rinks, but due to the culture shock.

A lot appeared to be lazy, but anyone who's used steroids for years and years ( such Jose Canseco, who's body is very still very weak and is being prescribed steroids by a doctor), can't just go cold turkey. Steroids are basically male hormones, just given in much larger doses. Which is why a lot suffer from roid-rage, think of a women who has a hormone imbalance... Their bodies are either producing too much of one hormone and not enough of another, resulting in mood swings, depression and a long list of side affects. Well, a male who's gone through years of steroid use, will have a rough adjustment once the steroids are taken away. Some like Jose Canseco (who really abused steroids in the 90's), never fully recover. The side affects can range from mood swings, to increased or decreased appetite, lack of energy, insomnia and depression. So, the 1st wave of Russians left a bad impression in the minds of NHL fans.