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2010-2011 Post Of The Day


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Hi everyone,

Since this thread was a success last year, we're bringing it back.

Below is an explanation on what constitutes a "post of the day"

The general thought process behind this is quite simple. There are hundreds if not thousands posts here everyday. There are a few in particular that stand out. Whether it’s a funny post that made you laugh out loud, a witty post, a well thought out post that swayed your opinion on a certain topic or just a well written post that you enjoyed reading.

We often see members that reply to a post saying “QFT (quoted for truth)” or the new trend “THIS” meaning that they approve or share the same opinion. We often see members reply to a post laughing using smilies etc.

What I propose we do is just copy and paste that post from the thread where that certain member made you experience any one of the above emotions. There will be no prizes, no voting on any of this. Then why do it you ask. Just as a simple gesture of acknowledgment towards that individual that brightened your day.

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Ok, here's the deal. If Captains don't produce at least 10 posts of the day throughout the season, I'll strip them of their title :lol:

Quote of the Day :lol: I didn't even have to look in a different thread!

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While this post was written last week, I only saw it now. It is one of the best posts I've read in a long time and therefore deserves to be a post of the day:

Im going to have to agree with Jedi here, for the simple reason that people's expectations of drafting/developping superstars are quite unrealistic. If you want to talk about the habs drafting record in the past 15 years, I think we need to break it down to down different eras.

Pre y2k, and then since 2000:

1994-1999:

Yes, we all know how atrocious the habs drafting was in the 1st round of those years. A multitude of players who never made it to the NHL ranks, and those were not the sole problems of that era. But let's not be too quick to lump these years with the next 10.

1st round picks:

1994: Brad Brown (18th Overall) (330 NHL games, traded to chicago as part of the Hacket/Weinrich deal)

1995: Terry Ryan (8th overall) (8 NHL games ; 0 pts)

1996: Matt Higgins (18th overall) (57 NHL games ; 3 pts)

1997: Jason Ward (11th overall) (186 NHL games ; 48 pts)

1998: Eric Chouinard (16th overall) (90 NHL games ; 22pts)

1999: no first round pick

since 2000:

2000: Ron Hainsey (13th overall ; 406 games, claimed off waivers by columbus) and Marcel Hossa (16th overall ; 237 games, 61 pts)

2001: Mike Komisarek (7th Overall ; 395 games) and Alexander Perezhogin (25th overall ; 128 games, signed in russia)

2002: Chris Higgins (14th overall ; 379 games, 179 pts)

2003: Andrei Kostitsyn (10th overall, 245 games, 141 pts)

2004: Kyle Chipchura (18th overall ; 123 NHL games, traded to the ducks for a 4th round pick)

2005: Carey Price (5th overall ; 134 NHL games)

2006: David Fischer (20th overall ; 0 NHL games)

2007: Ryan McDonaugh (12th overall ; 0 NHL games, trade to NYR for Scott Gomez and Tom Pyatt) and Max Pacioretty (22nd overall ; 86 NHL games)

2008: no 1st round pick

2009: Louis Leblanc (18th overall)

2010: Jarred Tinordi (22nd overall)

Okay take a quick look at the division since the year 2000. Clearly, the habs have done a much better job identifying and drafting players as well as developing them into NHL talent players. Now as far as the last handful of years, we can make observations, but much the judgement is still yet to come for the years 2007 on.. So considering how many games these players have played (and will still play throughout their career), it's night and day. Even youngster like Price and Pacioretty have already played more games in their young careers then most of the guys mentioned above.

Now i just did a 1st round overview because i didn't want to put in the needed time to dig further, but I think this proves my point fairly well. The habs have clearly done a better job identifying talent, and developing it to the point where it can play long term at the NHL level. Of course the last 5 years are up for more debate since it is still fairly early to analyze, i put them there more for discussion purposes.

The next question i am sure someone would bring would be: "Sure, those players are all in the NHL still, but are they impact players and are they with the montreal canadiens?".

Well how do we answer that?.. i guess the first point would be what would you consider a success when developing a player?.. that they become a 30 goal or 80 pt player?.. I think that this is pretty unrealistic terms to evaluate development. Of course those players are needed at the NHL level, however if that is the standard used, then 95% of NHL drafted players are busts. I think the proper answer is a mix between production and games played. Are they a player that you can plug into your roster and count on to do a good job. Are they still in the league years later?... Especially taking into account the draft position of each team. I mean how many top 10 picks have the habs had?.. top 5?... In the last 10 years, We had Price at no. 5, Komisarek at 7, and Kostitsyn at no.10. There are some teams who have drafted in the top 10 twice as much as the habs in that same time span and still arn't nearly as good an organization.. Other who have drafted there twice as much, and as a result, have won a Stanley Cup (penguins.. Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury).

Simply put.. elite payers drafted after the top 10-15 picks are pretty rare. To expect a team to make these kinds of draft picks is an unrealistic standard that no team could live up on a consistent basis. Sure, you can point to the Zach Parise's and whoever else drafted late and say "why can't the habs do the same".. but for every Parise, I can name you 20 players drafted in similar range that have not even played an NHL game.

So I guess I leave you all with the question.. what do you consider a success when drafting and developing a player?.. because unless we define this, then this debate is a lost cause.

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Ok, here's the deal. If Captains don't produce at least 10 posts of the day throughout the season, I'll strip them of their title :lol:

Does quoting yourself count?? :P

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I really like this post in the free agent frenzy thread.

There's no questioning that NHLers as a whole are grossly overpaid. And that applies to both the grinders and goons as well as the stars. The problem is that a one star signs or 6 million and the next guy ups him and signs or 7. Then one GM acts like an idiot and signs Scott Gomez to 7+ and suddenly every other star wants more because players and agents only compare themselves to the highest-paid, most under-achieving players. The end result is that salaries sky-rocket and we the fans end up paying more for tickets and apparel and the like. Forget supply and demand, the fact is that the NHL is pretty much a monopoly and can set prices and salaries wherever it wants. The GMs are not really spending their own money and the owners know that no matter what they spend they can just jack up their ticket prices and make it back.
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This post is great in every sense of the word.

GHC, I've been saying that for about a month now... Price was the 1st one to say how shocked he was when he heard the news (Halak trade). I have a sneaking suspicion that he's holding out and hoping for an offer sheet.

Roy and I had this debate a week ago. The longer it goes on, the more I feel he was expecting (and wants) to leave Montreal.

Really, I can't blame the kid. He had a GM that raved about him and appeared to be behind the kid. But when the going got tough, instead of protecting the kid and taking him out of the spotlight, Carey was thrown to the wolves.

If Carey had of struggled in Hamilton away from the media and 20,000+ fans, I'm sure we'd be seeing a different Carey today. And I'm pretty sure the fans would be begging for him, like they're doing with Subban.

Halak didn't become a star over night... He played many seasons in Hamilton all the while developing his game. He was also called up from time to time, giving him a better idea of what to expect and better preparing him for the eventual jump. Every young kid has their fair share of struggles. The difference is, most of them have the luxury of doing it away from 20,000+ fans.

Patches had his struggles and was sent down, Dags had his struggles and was sent down, so did Sergei and many others. I don't know why the Habs were so head strong when it came to Carey. If Carey had been handled the same way as other players, it may have been Carey who brought us to the ECF last fall.

Developing a young kid properly, can be the difference between him being a star or just average. I'm afraid the mishandling of Carey has done more harm than good.

I wouldn't blame Carey one bit if he wants out of Montreal.

Coaches and GM's are there to make the tough decisions, like sending a kid down despite what the kid may believe. Last year Subban was visibly upset when they sent him down to Hamilton after training camp. The bulldogs worked hard at developing Subban's defensive game and the Habs reaped the benefits when he was finally called up.

At one point, I was afraid that the mishandling of Carey had done irreversible damage. That the kid would have troubles rebounding from it. Last year gave me much more hope. The stats didn't reflect it, but Carey appeared stronger last season, both mentally and physically.

I was really hoping the Habs were going to hold onto Halak for at least one more season, to give Carey the time to find his game. Then when Halak was traded, I was praying the Habs would go after a proven vet. Someone like Turco or even Legacy, goalies who are at end of their careers, but still capable of playing 35-50 games-if needed.

Now we've gone after Auld, a career back up. So if Carey does struggle next season, our hopes rely solely on Auld. If Carey comes out next season struggling, the fans will boo him out of town like they did with Theo and Breezer.

It's obvious that the organization wants Carey to be the future #1. But for the good of Carey's career, let the kid earn it by his own merits. If we'd gone after a seasoned vet like Legacy or Turco, we could've let time dictate the future. I feel the Habs purposely went after a backup to force Carey into the #1 spot. They tried it once before when they traded Huet and it failed. Why would they think this time would be any different?

Carey is going to find his game and mature at his own rate. Forcing him into the #1 role isn't going to magically develop him or cause him to mature any faster.

I heard BG at one point say that we have to be patient with Carey which couldn't be closer to the truth... Well, I feel that BG (and the organization) should've listened to his/their own advice.

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Well FS, I'll add my voice to the chorus of others calling this a great post. Only I don't quite agree with it ;).

In my opinion, I just don't see the way management has treated Price as having been detrimental to his development. Detrimental to the team, maybe. Detrimental to the fans' perception of Price, definitely. But detrimental to his development?

I agree that from the team's point of view he could have been handled better, and especially that he wasn't necessarily ready for the #1 role when it was first thrust upon him. While I don't think the Canadiens could have beaten Boston in the playoffs a few years ago with Hasek in net given the way that they played, I will concede that Price was not very good in the series. And no, he wasn't great in the Philly series the year before that. This is why bringing him up may have hurt the team, as there's always a chance that Huet or Halak could have stepped up and stolen enough games to get us an extra round or two. The losses and the subsequent media spectacle (not helped by his 'pulling a Roy') lead to a lot of fans declaring him a failure.

But as for hurting his development, I just don't see it. This situation isn't the same as it is for a skater who gets called up too early only to ride the pine or play 7-8 minutes a night. As a goalie, and at times as a #1 goalie, Carey got good playing time against high-calibre NHL opponents. In my estimation this is going to help him improve far more than playing the same number of games against AHL teams ever could. As in any sport, playing against players who are better than you helps you improve at a much faster rate (even if you do get beaten badly for a while in the process). Add in the world class coaching, training, nutrition coaching, councelling, etc that's available to a member of a modern NHL team and you've got yourself a pretty great place to improve your game.

"But wait," you say! "That's all well and good, but the problem with being brought up isn't about any of that stuff, it's about what happenned to him mentally!" But what really happened to him mentally? It's not exactly as though he's a basket case. As you said yourself, last season he actually played quite well despite what his record may have indicated. In addition, he looked calm and focused even as the losses were piling up and even as he sat out for most of our playoff run. I didn't see a young goalie who was ruined by pressure and a few bad stretches, I saw a young goalie who seemed very responsible and willing to put in the work needed to improve.

Plus, I think we need to consider the alternative. Picture what things would be like right now had we developed him more conservatively and he was about to enter his first season as a #1. First off, he'd still probably be seen as an absolute superstar-in-waiting, with all of the unrealistic expectaions to go with it. I remember Bob McKenzie wrote an article for TSN.ca, before Price even played one game in the NHL, opining that Carey might well be the only other player in Crosby's draft year to be mentioned in the same breath as Sid the Kid. (Looking back now, is it any wonder Price has failed to live up to fans' expectations? :P).

It's not as though after having the benefit of a few years in the AHL or as a back-up he was going to come in and have a brilliant career with no struggles whatsoever. There would be bad spells. There will be bad spells. The question that people often ask is whether, after some seasoning, he would be better at dealing with those bad spells than he was when Huet was traded and he was first made #1. My answer, like most people's, is "Yes, he almost certainly would be". BUT (and you knew the 'but' was coming :P) those people are asking the wrong question. The real comparison we need to make is between that alternate universe version of Carey Price and today's Carey Price of the same age. He's been through some rough patches. He's been beaten badly in a playoff series and had an entire Province's worth of reporters place the blame unfairly on his shoulders. He's experienced the exhaulting highs and shattering lows of fan 'support' at the Bell Centre. He's been given the #1 role only to have it ripped away from him by Halak's great play while the rest of the team went on a playoff run for the ages. These are all life experiences that will help him going forward that he would not have had if he had been developed in a more traditional way, and based on all of last season he seems to have come through those experiences still feeling pretty confident about himself.

He's a good young goalie who's so far played his entire career like... a good young goalie. He's had a lot more to handle than most other goalies his age. I would argue that, far from ruining him, those experiences actually make him better equipped than he would otherwise be to move forward as the starting goaltender for the Montreal Canadiens.

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You bring up some good points... But I feel you're over looking one very simple yet important factor. Goaltending isn't all about skill, a lot of it happens between the ears. Many goalie's have achieved so much, bringing their team to the cup finals, only to crash and burn the next season.

Some has to do with video, a lot of it goes on in the goalie's head. It's mentally draining to climb your way to the top, it's even harder to stay there. How do you explain a goalie like Denis who leads T-Bay to an excellent cup run, then falls out of the NHL before he even hits 30.

Has he forgotten his skills?

Was it all just a case of being lucky?

No and no... They had the skills, they still have them, but the pressure's placed on themselves to continue and excel often leads to a lack of confidence. Some night's the puck is the size of a beachball, other night's it seems like a marble. It only takes a few bad games following a stellar season to start doubting your own abilities. Once self confidence is gone, it's almost impossible to get it back. The skills are still there, but the self doubt starts to reflect in their game, not coming out to challenge, cheating a lil bit, keeping deep in the net, etc...

Now, you take Carey, who was on top of the world after winning at the WJR's and the calder with Hamilton and he's brought up to the NHL. Things start going good, he's winning games, get's the Habs into the playoffs. Once there, things start going south. He comes back the next season, has a good start, then once again, things go south. But instead of this happening in Hamilton, in front of a few thousand fans, his struggles are being replayed on sports shows and it's happening in front of 20,000+ fans. The home fans boo him, radio talk shows start questioning his past success, wondering if it was just a fluke.

Now, this kids confidence is shaken before he's even played a full 2 seasons in the league... I don't see how forcing him into the league when he wasn't ready, didn't have an impact on him. We often forget these are real people with real feelings, emotions and fears.

Every kid who comes up... Lives with the fear of no being able to make it in the big league. It's one thing to happen to a skater, it's another when you're a goalie, fronting the team with the longest history, going through their centennial celebrations, being voted to the 1st all star team, having his picture plastered on the side of the bell centre, on billboards across the city, and being marked as their savior.

How can all this not affect the kids confidence and do damage?

To make matters worse... He was all by himself, no mentor or vet to lean on. You can have the best goalie coach ever, but if you can't fix the problem between the ears, no amount of skill or coaching is going to change that. Like I said previously, many goalie's climb their way to the top, but only a select few actually stay there (and that's due to the mental stress of the position).

All this damage could've killed the kid before he even got his career going.

Yes it's true that I said myslef, he appeared most confident, calmer and mature last season. How much of that had to do with the fact that he was out of the spotlight?

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money on that fact.

He come's out and struggles next season, without having Halak there (or another proven goalie) to take the lead and the home crowd is on him once again. All the work from last season to build up his confidence could be gone in the space of a few weeks. It takes years to build up confidence, it only take a short while to lose it.

And to say the #1 spot was ripped away from him by Halak is a bit of a strange comment. Halak didn't rip it away from him, Halak won the role fair and square.

We have a young kid here who has had his share of struggles. The fact that the organization kept throwing him back (instead of dealing with it off the ice), does damage... How can it not??? :blink:

Young players are full of self doubt, no matter who they are. Even Gretzky once said he was scared of the NHL, which is why he signed a lifelong contract with an WHA team. Carey is no different, you have a young kid with all the potential in the world... You protect it, not exploit it. All the counseling in the world couldn't get Theo back to his old self, nor Potvin or Jim Carrey.

Too much pressure was put on Carey's shoulders and it was fueled by the organization. I thought they would've learned from past mistakes, but no, they're destined to repeat it... Which has been a patern around here for a very long time.

It's one thing to protect your investment and try to push it some... It's another to stick labels on a player like savior and/or thoroughbred. It's unfortunate, but by the organization fueled the fire and put more pressure on the kid by forcing him into the league early, then treating him like a proven star before he even played a full season.

Fans are naturally jealous of players success... They like to see them fail. As sick and twisted as it may be, it's reality. Most got joy out of seeing Carey struggle and starting using him as their whipping boy, taking out their own frustrations out on him.

I really don't see how the mishandling of Carey hasn't taken a toll on his confidence. He knows even before the season starts, that if he struggles again, that he'll be back in their doghouse.

I really feel for this kid and don't blame him one bit if he's fed up of Montreal, their fans and this organization.

I agree with your last comment... He is a good young goalie, but with all the hype surrounding this kid, being fueled by the local media and the organization, they did more harm than good. Calling someone a thoroughbred puts the idea in people's heads that he was going to be the next Roy. Most goalie's hit their groove around 24/25. Why did they take a 20 year old, and try to force him to do what most goalie's who have come before him, couldn't?

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This gave me a good chuckle :D

MMW, the crying and whining about Halak being traded won't end until game #15, when Price will already have nine wins, three shutouts, and a GAA of 2.1. At that point, the headlines in the paper will read "HALAK WHO?"

MMW that he will then lose three of the next 4 games, at which point every single paper will be calling for Gauthier's head for trading Halak away.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I understand fans who mourn Halak's departure, but you can do that without actively wishing for Price to fail, which is a position I find difficult to understand. Do I mourn Saku Koivu's departure? Yes. But even though I'm tough on Gomez because of his cap hit, I'm not sitting around praying he'll fail. Nothing would please me more than to see Gomez post 70+ points while playing solid two-way hockey.

You may not like the Halak trade, but try not to let it stop you from cheering for our team, and for Carey in particular.

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  • 1 month later...
I am fed up waiting for Carey to sign

I want to get on with my rhyme

The state of the HABS was never better

This team this season will be a real go getter

Carey will show just how great he will be

There is no doubt just wait and see

Pleks as always will be hard at work

He has never been known to shirk

Cammi as always with a smile

Shooting at the net all the while

Gio our great little smudge

Don't try to push him he won't budge

Gomez this season will show his best side

Just to prove he's not here for a ride

Laps is going to have his breakout year

Been learning to box so he can fight without fear

AK is going to prove your all wrong

He's going to give it his all,all season long

Moen no one says a lot about you

But you always do what you have to do

Pyatt you have to prove me right

So go out and play with all you might

BP now is the time you have to show

What some of us already know

Lars we welcome you with open arms

Let us see what you can do with your hockey charms

Boyd you are a new guy too

Let us see what you can do

Darche you have been here before

We like what we see give us some more

Maxwell you don't get much time on ice

To see you some more would be nice

Gill lets hope you continue like you did post season

To show you are here for a reason

Gorges as always you will be best

Never known to fail the test

Hammer we know you are the guy

Will never let an opportunity pass by

Spacek we hope you can play on the right(left) side

So you can show your skill instead of hide

OB we know you try so much

keep on going it will touch

PK another star in waiting

I just can't wait to see you skating

Markov we hope you will soon be well

Maybe you will start the season who can tell

Alex we hope you like it here

And you are going to have a really great year

We might see some of the youngsters play

If they are really good we will let them stay

That's my team the guys I adore

Can't wait much longer for you to score

The state of the HABS this season it's sure

Is going to have us screaming for more

GO HABS GO :D :D

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