#26 Josh Gorges 2010-11

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

Personally, I don't think so. I wouldn't even call it 'showing promise' with Josh, to be honest, since I don't really see him getting any better than he was last season. He's not old by any means, but he's no spring chicken either and he's been in the league for a number of years now.

I love Josh Gorges, but he is what he is: a lower pairing defenseman who can fill in very well for injuries in the top pairs for short stretches of time. Banking on him to consistently be a top pair guy is asking for trouble, if you ask me.

Having said that, I do feel blessed to have a guy like this on our team. There's certainly something to be said for a guy who puts it all on the line as much as Mr. Gorges

Agree.

The next contract could be a disaster, though. Josh is the kind of guy who really makes the 3rd pairing good at great value. However, look at what kind of nonsense Vancouver has gotten themselves into by signing about three defenceman too many to $3 million deals. I think the Habs may be better served by trading Josh rather than resigning him to a new deal that overvalues what he can bring to the table. You can find a replacement for shot-blocking and "heart" on the free agent market easily. We don't need to overpay Josh.

[gooser_mtl]

If we resign Gorges next year, it had better be at below 2M cap hit, or I will not be a happy camper. Signing Gorges to 2M+ is like the BGL contract at 1.5, too much cap hit for a role player.

If we can get Gorges signed at a reasonable price, I'd be super happy. But I don't want to overpay for a player like him.

you really consider gorges a role player...

Were you watching any games last season?

[Bean-Counting-Hab]

It all depends on what his salary demands are. These kind of defensemen (solid defensive shot blocking) often get overpaid when they go to free-agency. I think it will probably be cheaper to re-sign Josh than to try to replace him via FA.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

you really consider gorges a role player...

Were you watching any games last season?

Gorges is definitely a role-player. What games were you watching last season? Just because he had a hot stretch of games playing alongside Gill during our post-season run (thanks Jaroslav Halak) doesn't mean he's worth the type of money that defenders who put up 40 points or play that style of game all season long make. You have to be careful when resigning d-men. Look at the Komisarek/Toronto deal. I would by so pissed had that been us signing that deal with Komisarek. Someone like Markov is an important resign. However, when it comes to defensive 3rd pairing d-men, I really think you can easily replace them, saving money, on the free agent market.

It all depends on what his salary demands are. These kind of defensemen (solid defensive shot blocking) often get overpaid when they go to free-agency. I think it will probably be cheaper to re-sign Josh than to try to replace him via FA.

And that's exactly why he might decide to go to market and field offers, 'cause I sure hope Montreal isn't going to offer him $3 million a year.

[Bean-Counting-Hab]

Gorges is definitely a role-player. What games were you watching last season? Just because he had a hot stretch of games playing alongside Gill during our post-season run (thanks Jaroslav Halak) doesn't mean he's worth the type of money that defenders who put up 40 points or play that style of game all season long make. You have to be careful when resigning d-men. Look at the Komisarek/Toronto deal. I would by so pissed had that been us signing that deal with Komisarek. Someone like Markov is an important resign. However, when it comes to defensive 3rd pairing d-men, I really think you can easily replace them, saving money, on the free agent market.

And that's exactly why he might decide to go to market and field offers, 'cause I sure hope Montreal isn't going to offer him $3 million a year.

Totally agree there, and I don't think we will. I could live with a $2M/year cap hit though, as long as his partner was a cheap rookie or FA.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

Totally agree there, and I don't think we will. I could live with a $2M/year cap hit though, as long as his partner was a cheap rookie or FA.

Can Josh "make it work" with a cheap rookie or cheap FA, though? Pairing him with a rookie could be dangerous. I also imagine he would see much less ice time if he were paired with, say... A learning Mathieu Carle or P.K. Subban than if he were paired with someone like Hamrlik (just an example, I don't expect Hamrlik to be back next year). However, I do agree that $2 million is the type of money, as a fan, I would want him to receive on his next deal. The good news is that he's an RFA and we have bargaining power. I believe he may be arbitration eligible, though... I'm not sure.

[ChiLla]

And that's exactly why he might decide to go to market and field offers, 'cause I sure hope Montreal isn't going to offer him $3 million a year.

Totally agree there, and I don't think we will. I could live with a $2M/year cap hit though, as long as his partner was a cheap rookie or FA.

Agreed, $3 million per year is crazy and Gauthier doesn't strike me as the kind of GM who'd offer that a player like Gorges. I really think he's a valuable player for our team but he doesn't deserve that kind of money period. I'd be alright with him getting 2 million or even the 2.2 million Gill is getting on his current contract but that's it.

[Bean-Counting-Hab]

Can Josh "make it work" with a cheap rookie or cheap FA, though? Pairing him with a rookie could be dangerous. I also imagine he would see much less ice time if he were paired with, say... A learning Mathieu Carle or P.K. Subban than if he were paired with someone like Hamrlik (just an example, I don't expect Hamrlik to be back next year). However, I do agree that $2 million is the type of money, as a fan, I would want him to receive on his next deal. The good news is that he's an RFA and we have bargaining power. I believe he may be arbitration eligible, though... I'm not sure.

Well, he made it work with "regular season" Hal Gill.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

Well, he made it work with "regular season" Hal Gill.

True!

[flames4eva]

WOW!!! I'm flabbergasted by some of the opinions regarding Josh...

Here's a guy who comes to the Habs organization with a very upbeat positive attitude, works his butt off game in and game out, spills blood and guts, plays his offwing without question, is the consummate team player who honours the Habs tradition like few others, an unsung hero that is inteliigent and well spoken... and yet he's not worth the reward nor able to fill a role as a top-four (even on the second pairing?)?

IMO Gorges was and still is the better of the Gill-Gorges tandem and can be a very vital part of the core of the Habs going forward. So he doesn't put up points (hard to do playing 3rd pairing maybe?) and doesn't have the best shot out there... he is a solid stay at home d-man that is more than just a name and I personally would have no problem playing him top-four (second pairing) minutes... he deserves a shot at the very least and should be compensated accordingly IMO. I would be very comfortable knowing he, more than many others, is one of the team leaders.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

I agree that Josh was the better part of the Gill/Gorges tandem. That doesn't mean Gill wasn't already overpaid at $2.2 million per season, and that Josh doesn't deserve more than $2 million. Also, I don't see how working hard is a prerequisite to getting a nice contract. Everyone should work hard no matter who they are. Just because Josh does it consistently doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the long-term betterment of the club before the individual. Josh could be a nice addition to the club for years to come, but I would rather save some cash on his contract to invest on scoring forwards or top-2 d-men.

[Manatee-X]

WOW!!! I'm flabbergasted by some of the opinions regarding Josh...

Here's a guy who comes to the Habs organization with a very upbeat positive attitude, works his butt off game in and game out, spills blood and guts, plays his offwing without question, is the consummate team player who honours the Habs tradition like few others, an unsung hero that is inteliigent and well spoken... and yet he's not worth the reward nor able to fill a role as a top-four (even on the second pairing?)?

IMO Gorges was and still is the better of the Gill-Gorges tandem and can be a very vital part of the core of the Habs going forward. So he doesn't put up points (hard to do playing 3rd pairing maybe?) and doesn't have the best shot out there... he is a solid stay at home d-man that is more than just a name and I personally would have no problem playing him top-four (second pairing) minutes... he deserves a shot at the very least and should be compensated accordingly IMO. I would be very comfortable knowing he, more than many others, is one of the team leaders.

You and I agree when you're talking about his positive attitude, work ethic, personality, etc. Josh is one of my favourite players on the team right now, and I fully acknowledge that he's an unsung hero and deserves a lot of credit for the work he does.

But just because I like the guy doesn't change the fact that he's still best suited to be a bottom pairing defenseman filling in up top when there's injuries. Moneypuck has (used to have?) an excellent quote in his signature stating that it didn't matter if a guy achieves results based on 80% work ethic and 20% skill or based on 80% skill and 20% work ethic; what matters are the results.

As a fan, you love to see the work ethic. You love to see the positive attitude and you love to see the guy that's great with the media and can ham it up for the cameras. That's why I love Gorges. But as a coach or GM? You put the best player in, regardless of how he does it. If Spacek plays better than Gorges but puts in less effort (I've got nothing against Spacek's effort, just an example) I'm still playing Spacek more because he gets better results. If Josh really does have a good attitude, and I think he does, he'd see that these decisions were made for the good of the team and wouldn't feel slighted in the least. He'd simply try and do his part to the best of his abilities, and that's exactly what I think he does.

So again, I don't think that anyone's got anything but respect for Josh Gorges... but it still doesn't change the fact that he is what he is.

[flames4eva]

I agree that Josh was the better part of the Gill/Gorges tandem. That doesn't mean Gill wasn't already overpaid at $2.2 million per season, and that Josh doesn't deserve more than $2 million. Also, I don't see how working hard is a prerequisite to getting a nice contract. Everyone should work hard no matter who they are. Just because Josh does it consistently doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the long-term betterment of the club before the individual. Josh could be a nice addition to the club for years to come, but I would rather save some cash on his contract to invest on scoring forwards or top-2 d-men.

Unfortunately not everyone does work hard consistenly on most teams. Cash can be saved when others are leaving like Hamrlik and Spacek and even Gill... we may even be saying ditto for A. Kostitsyn and Benoit Pouliot for that matter... or how about Travis Moen or the unbeleivable Scott Gomez contract?

You and I agree when you're talking about his positive attitude, work ethic, personality, etc. Josh is one of my favourite players on the team right now, and I fully acknowledge that he's an unsung hero and deserves a lot of credit for the work he does.

But just because I like the guy doesn't change the fact that he's still best suited to be a bottom pairing defenseman filling in up top when there's injuries. Moneypuck has (used to have?) an excellent quote in his signature stating that it didn't matter if a guy achieves results based on 80% work ethic and 20% skill or based on 80% skill and 20% work ethic; what matters are the results.

As a fan, you love to see the work ethic. You love to see the positive attitude and you love to see the guy that's great with the media and can ham it up for the cameras. That's why I love Gorges. But as a coach or GM? You put the best player in, regardless of how he does it. If Spacek plays better than Gorges but puts in less effort (I've got nothing against Spacek's effort, just an example) I'm still playing Spacek more because he gets better results. If Josh really does have a good attitude, and I think he does, he'd see that these decisions were made for the good of the team and wouldn't feel slighted in the least. He'd simply try and do his part to the best of his abilities, and that's exactly what I think he does.

So again, I don't think that anyone's got anything but respect for Josh Gorges... but it still doesn't change the fact that he is what he is.

He is what he is? Results are represented by more than just points on the board IMO.

He is just 26 years old and has progressed slowly but surely from the start based on whatever has been asked of him... there is no reason at this point to not think there may be even more there than thought at first. I believe there is and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on progression and past performance. Merit is a big word in my vocabulary.

Remember Rivet paired with Markov... then Komisarek? Who is to say that a Gorges/PK Subban pairing may not be a great second pairing that gel as a tandem?

Think about this... if he could make Gill look better than he actually is when others currently with the Habs couldn't, then why couldn't he compliment someone of greater talent too... given the chance?

[gooser_mtl]

It's sad to see this guy so undervalued by everyone.

Obviously the same people who wanted a floater like kovalev back.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

Unfortunately not everyone does work hard consistenly on most teams. Cash can be saved when others are leaving like Hamrlik and Spacek and even Gill... we may even be saying ditto for A. Kostitsyn and Benoit Pouliot for that matter... or how about Travis Moen or the unbeleivable Scott Gomez contract?

True dat. But with the departure of Roman Hamrlik and Hal Gill (at the latest the summer of 2011) we need a brand new replacement for these guys, and one thing Josh has going against him compared to players like Hamrlik and Gill is size. There's no doubt that not everyone puts in the same effort when it comes to working hard, but what others do has no bearing on what Josh deserves. As a team, IMO, we simply cannot afford to pay someone with Josh's skillset more than a couple of million. In a non-salary cap world I wouldn't care, but since each $500K makes a difference nowadays...

[gooser_mtl]

Unfortunately not everyone does work hard consistenly on most teams. Cash can be saved when others are leaving like Hamrlik and Spacek and even Gill... we may even be saying ditto for A. Kostitsyn and Benoit Pouliot for that matter... or how about Travis Moen or the unbeleivable Scott Gomez contract?

He is what he is? Results are represented by more than just points on the board IMO.

He is just 26 years old and has progressed slowly but surely from the start based on whatever has been asked of him... there is no reason at this point to not think there may be even more there than thought at first. I believe there is and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on progression and past performance. Merit is a big word in my vocabulary.

Remember Rivet paired with Markov... then Komisarek? Who is to say that a Gorges/PK Subban pairing may not be a great second pairing that gel as a tandem?

Think about this... if he could make Gill look better than he actually is when others currently with the Habs couldn't, then why couldn't he compliment someone of greater talent too... given the chance?

+11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Oh but wait how could a guy who's not worth 1.5 a year do something like that?

Open your eyes people this guy is worth a whole ton more than he is or ever will get credit for, solely cause if he doesn't get 40 points a year he's not worth the keyboard I'm typing on.

[Manatee-X]

He is what he is? Results are represented by more than just points on the board IMO.

He is just 26 years old and has progressed slowly but surely from the start based on whatever has been asked of him... there is no reason at this point to not think there may be even more there than thought at first. I believe there is and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on progression and past performance. Merit is a big word in my vocabulary.

Remember Rivet paired with Markov... then Komisarek? Who is to say that a Gorges/PK Subban pairing may not be a great second pairing that gel as a tandem?

Think about this... if he could make Gill look better than he actually is when others currently with the Habs couldn't, then why couldn't he compliment someone of greater talent too... given the chance?

This is all pretty speculative though, no? Maybe Gorges does gel with Subban, continues to improve and becomes one of our best players. But maybe he doesn't. Are you really willing to give this guy over $2M a year based on theory that "he made Gill look good, he could do it with someone else too!"

The thing is, Josh has been tried on top lines in the past, when we've had injuries. When it's been a short term fill-in he's done well. Long term? Not so much. Do you remember when Komisarek went down for quite a while and Gorges was playing with Markov? It started alright, but before too long it became a bit of a disaster.

I know you'll probably say 'well he's improved since then' and yes, he has. But despite his hustle and despite how much I personally like him he still hasn't done anything to make me believe that he's capable of playing a role that's worth comitting more than $2M to.

And I'm not saying cut him from the team. He'll play this year and I hope that you're right, that Josh hasn't reached his ceiling and that he continues to get better and earns a bigger contract. But if I were resigning him today, based on what he's done? I'm sorry, but no matter how much I like him I just can't see him getting over $2M. To be honest, I can't imagine he'd really disagree

[Manatee-X]

+11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Oh but wait how could a guy who's not worth 1.5 a year do something like that?

Open your eyes people this guy is worth a whole ton more than he is or ever will get credit for, solely cause if he doesn't get 40 points a year he's not worth the keyboard I'm typing on.

Look, I get it: players are worth more than the points they put up on the score sheet. That's why Gill gets what he does (even if it is probably too much), that's why Volchenkov just signed a giant contract and why Komisarek got what he did last year. That's why Plekanec earned more than some other players who put up similar amounts of points. Hell, it's why guys like Gorges and O'Byrne are even in the NHL.

That doesn't change the fact that there are other players that can do what Josh does for much less than $3M or whatever some people are advocating we give him. It's all about value. As much as I actually liked Gainey as our GM, his biggest flaw IMO was doing exactly what you're advocating and signing lower-tier guys who worked hard to waaaaaay too much money. You just can't do that in a cap system.

I loved Boullion, I loved Begin... Dandenault, oddly enough, was one of my favourite players to ever don the bleu, blanc, rouge. But all of them were replaceable for less than the salaries that they were being paid.

Is it fair to guys like them who put their time in and work hard? No, probably not. But they need to take it up with the NHLPA, not their team; that's just how it works in the world of the salary cap.

[gooser_mtl]

I loved Boullion, I loved Begin... Dandenault, oddly enough, was one of my favourite players to even don the bleu, blanc, rouge. But all of them were replaceable for less than the salaries that they were being paid.

Is it fair to guys like them who put their time in and work hard? No, probably not. But they need to take it up with the NHLPA, not their team; that's just how it works in the world of the salary cap.

My opinion here but I personally don't put any of those three guys in the same category...

[Bean-Counting-Hab]

Agreed, Josh is a step up on those guys IMO. (plus younger, comming into prime and all that good stuff).

Anyway, I have feeling he'll be re-signed easily to around $2M per and this whole debate will end up being a non-issue.

[gooser_mtl]

Agreed, Josh is a step up on those guys IMO. (plus younger, comming into prime and all that good stuff).

Anyway, I have feeling he'll be re-signed easily to around $2M per and this whole debate will end up being a non-issue.

You know what I agree with you.. Nowhere have I said he's worth 3 or 2.5 for that matter but the way 3/4 of the people talk about this guy he should't even be playing senior hockey for coupons to mcdonalds.

[Bean-Counting-Hab]

You know what I agree with you.. Nowhere have I said he's worth 3 or 2.5 for that matter but the way 3/4 of the people talk about this guy he should't even be playing senior hockey for coupons to mcdonalds.

What's funny is I think most people feel this way. For all the arguing back and fourth I haven't actually seen anyone post Josh is worth $3M++ or isn't worth $2M. In the end this will all be for naught

[flames4eva]

True dat. But with the departure of Roman Hamrlik and Hal Gill (at the latest the summer of 2011) we need a brand new replacement for these guys, and one thing Josh has going against him compared to players like Hamrlik and Gill is size. There's no doubt that not everyone puts in the same effort when it comes to working hard, but what others do has no bearing on what Josh deserves. As a team, IMO, we simply cannot afford to pay someone with Josh's skillset more than a couple of million. In a non-salary cap world I wouldn't care, but since each $500K makes a difference nowadays...

Of course we may need at least one replacement at the top... but that doesn't need to mean a player like Josh couldn't move up and be paired with him or another IMO. As far as skillset goes... to do what he does under the circumstances tells me he has a great skillset. Josh is no slouch back there, give him credit with how he can handle himself and the puck. Gorges is 6'1 200 LBS.... how big is Dan Hamhuis? How prolific is Dan Hamhuis?

This is all pretty speculative though, no? Maybe Gorges does gel with Subban, continues to improve and becomes one of our best players. But maybe he doesn't. Are you really willing to give this guy over $2M a year based on theory that "he made Gill look good, he could do it with someone else too!"

The thing is, Josh has been tried on top lines in the past, when we've had injuries. When it's been a short term fill-in he's done well. Long term? Not so much. Do you remember when Komisarek went down for quite a while and Gorges was playing with Markov? It started alright, but before too long it became a bit of a disaster.

I know you'll probably say 'well he's improved since then' and yes, he has. But despite his hustle and despite how much I personally like him he still hasn't done anything to make me believe that he's capable of playing a role that's worth comitting more than $2M to.

And I'm not saying cut him from the team. He'll play this year and I hope that you're right, that Josh hasn't reached his ceiling and that he continues to get better and earns a bigger contract. But if I were resigning him today, based on what he's done? I'm sorry, but no matter how much I like him I just can't see him getting over $2M. To be honest, I can't imagine he'd really disagree

Who's speculating? I know you are I never said we had to pay him 3 million + but I do take issue with those saying he is what he is... and that he is nothing more than a third pairing d-man. Of course he has faultered at times... tell me who on the Habs hasn't. But stick with him and you won't be dissappointed I would venture. Rivet didn't click at first, nor Komisarek... Heck how about Markov? PK last year?

Listen... it is about team building and Gorges to me represents part of the foundation... the kind of player you want around that helps you win the Cup (on the ice and in the dressing room)... the kind of player that is not a dime a dozen and looking for a big paycheck... in todays money first NHL players like Josh are a rare breed IMO and not so easy to find.

Good to see there are others that think as highly of Josh as I do

[theRazor67]

I like Josh in interviews/press statements. I'm wondering if he sounds as well speaking french as he does English? He has that deep "anchor-man" quality in his speach. Does he speak like this in French? Any opinions?

[ColRouleBleu]

I like Josh in interviews/press statements. I'm wondering if he sounds as well speaking french as he does English? He has that deep "anchor-man" quality in his speach. Does he speak like this in French? Any opinions?

euh...Josh does not speak French, not in interviews anyway. So yes, he has the same tone of voice on rds that he has on cbc