#31 Carey Price 2010-11

[I1IscottieI1I]

I don't know how anyone can call themselves a habs fan if they can't support our starting goaltender.....

Nothing good will come from booing him or complaining about him we have to support him through his slumps and his hot streaks

[weedleaf]

Halak gets 3.75M per year for 4 seasons.

What will price sign for?

Hopefully 2 mill or under

[Certagemmy]

Halak gets 3.75M per year for 4 seasons.

What will price sign for?

Hopefully 2 mill or under

That's cheaper than I thought Halak would take , but there's still no way Price signs for under two mil.

Also, something that should be taken into account is that 3.75 million in Illinois (lowest tax rate in the US) is probably closer to 5+ million in Quebec.

[roy_133]

That's cheaper than I thought Halak would take , but there's still no way Price signs for under two mil.

Also, something that should be taken into account is that 3.75 million in Illinois (lowest tax rate in the US) is probably closer to 5+ million in Quebec.

St Lou is in Missouri

[Certagemmy]

St Lou is in Missouri

wrong state. point is, the tax rate is much lower there than Quebec.

[FirstStar]

Well FS, I'll add my voice to the chorus of others calling this a great post. Only I don't quite agree with it .

In my opinion, I just don't see the way management has treated Price as having been detrimental to his development. Detrimental to the team, maybe. Detrimental to the fans' perception of Price, definitely. But detrimental to his development?

I agree that from the team's point of view he could have been handled better, and especially that he wasn't necessarily ready for the #1 role when it was first thrust upon him. While I don't think the Canadiens could have beaten Boston in the playoffs a few years ago with Hasek in net given the way that they played, I will concede that Price was not very good in the series. And no, he wasn't great in the Philly series the year before that. This is why bringing him up may have hurt the team, as there's always a chance that Huet or Halak could have stepped up and stolen enough games to get us an extra round or two. The losses and the subsequent media spectacle (not helped by his 'pulling a Roy') lead to a lot of fans declaring him a failure.

But as for hurting his development, I just don't see it. This situation isn't the same as it is for a skater who gets called up too early only to ride the pine or play 7-8 minutes a night. As a goalie, and at times as a #1 goalie, Carey got good playing time against high-calibre NHL opponents. In my estimation this is going to help him improve far more than playing the same number of games against AHL teams ever could. As in any sport, playing against players who are better than you helps you improve at a much faster rate (even if you do get beaten badly for a while in the process). Add in the world class coaching, training, nutrition coaching, councelling, etc that's available to a member of a modern NHL team and you've got yourself a pretty great place to improve your game.

"But wait," you say! "That's all well and good, but the problem with being brought up isn't about any of that stuff, it's about what happenned to him mentally!" But what really happened to him mentally? It's not exactly as though he's a basket case. As you said yourself, last season he actually played quite well despite what his record may have indicated. In addition, he looked calm and focused even as the losses were piling up and even as he sat out for most of our playoff run. I didn't see a young goalie who was ruined by pressure and a few bad stretches, I saw a young goalie who seemed very responsible and willing to put in the work needed to improve.

Plus, I think we need to consider the alternative. Picture what things would be like right now had we developed him more conservatively and he was about to enter his first season as a #1. First off, he'd still probably be seen as an absolute superstar-in-waiting, with all of the unrealistic expectaions to go with it. I remember Bob McKenzie wrote an article for TSN.ca, before Price even played one game in the NHL, opining that Carey might well be the only other player in Crosby's draft year to be mentioned in the same breath as Sid the Kid. (Looking back now, is it any wonder Price has failed to live up to fans' expectations? ).

It's not as though after having the benefit of a few years in the AHL or as a back-up he was going to come in and have a brilliant career with no struggles whatsoever. There would be bad spells. There will be bad spells. The question that people often ask is whether, after some seasoning, he would be better at dealing with those bad spells than he was when Huet was traded and he was first made #1. My answer, like most people's, is "Yes, he almost certainly would be". BUT (and you knew the 'but' was coming ) those people are asking the wrong question. The real comparison we need to make is between that alternate universe version of Carey Price and today's Carey Price of the same age. He's been through some rough patches. He's been beaten badly in a playoff series and had an entire Province's worth of reporters place the blame unfairly on his shoulders. He's experienced the exhaulting highs and shattering lows of fan 'support' at the Bell Centre. He's been given the #1 role only to have it ripped away from him by Halak's great play while the rest of the team went on a playoff run for the ages. These are all life experiences that will help him going forward that he would not have had if he had been developed in a more traditional way, and based on all of last season he seems to have come through those experiences still feeling pretty confident about himself.

He's a good young goalie who's so far played his entire career like... a good young goalie. He's had a lot more to handle than most other goalies his age. I would argue that, far from ruining him, those experiences actually make him better equipped than he would otherwise be to move forward as the starting goaltender for the Montreal Canadiens.

You bring up some good points... But I feel you're over looking one very simple yet important factor. Goaltending isn't all about skill, a lot of it happens between the ears. Many goalie's have achieved so much, bringing their team to the cup finals, only to crash and burn the next season.

Some has to do with video, a lot of it goes on in the goalie's head. It's mentally draining to climb your way to the top, it's even harder to stay there. How do you explain a goalie like Denis who leads T-Bay to an excellent cup run, then falls out of the NHL before he even hits 30.

Has he forgotten his skills?

Was it all just a case of being lucky?

No and no... They had the skills, they still have them, but the pressure's placed on themselves to continue and excel often leads to a lack of confidence. Some night's the puck is the size of a beachball, other night's it seems like a marble. It only takes a few bad games following a stellar season to start doubting your own abilities. Once self confidence is gone, it's almost impossible to get it back. The skills are still there, but the self doubt starts to reflect in their game, not coming out to challenge, cheating a lil bit, keeping deep in the net, etc...

Now, you take Carey, who was on top of the world after winning at the WJR's and the calder with Hamilton and he's brought up to the NHL. Things start going good, he's winning games, get's the Habs into the playoffs. Once there, things start going south. He comes back the next season, has a good start, then once again, things go south. But instead of this happening in Hamilton, in front of a few thousand fans, his struggles are being replayed on sports shows and it's happening in front of 20,000+ fans. The home fans boo him, radio talk shows start questioning his past success, wondering if it was just a fluke.

Now, this kids confidence is shaken before he's even played a full 2 seasons in the league... I don't see how forcing him into the league when he wasn't ready, didn't have an impact on him. We often forget these are real people with real feelings, emotions and fears.

Every kid who comes up... Lives with the fear of no being able to make it in the big league. It's one thing to happen to a skater, it's another when you're a goalie, fronting the team with the longest history, going through their centennial celebrations, being voted to the 1st all star team, having his picture plastered on the side of the bell centre, on billboards across the city, and being marked as their savior.

How can all this not affect the kids confidence and do damage?

To make matters worse... He was all by himself, no mentor or vet to lean on. You can have the best goalie coach ever, but if you can't fix the problem between the ears, no amount of skill or coaching is going to change that. Like I said previously, many goalie's climb their way to the top, but only a select few actually stay there (and that's due to the mental stress of the position).

All this damage could've killed the kid before he even got his career going.

Yes it's true that I said myslef, he appeared most confident, calmer and mature last season. How much of that had to do with the fact that he was out of the spotlight?

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money on that fact.

He come's out and struggles next season, without having Halak there (or another proven goalie) to take the lead and the home crowd is on him once again. All the work from last season to build up his confidence could be gone in the space of a few weeks. It takes years to build up confidence, it only take a short while to lose it.

And to say the #1 spot was ripped away from him by Halak is a bit of a strange comment. Halak didn't rip it away from him, Halak won the role fair and square.

We have a young kid here who has had his share of struggles. The fact that the organization kept throwing him back (instead of dealing with it off the ice), does damage... How can it not???

Young players are full of self doubt, no matter who they are. Even Gretzky once said he was scared of the NHL, which is why he signed a lifelong contract with an WHA team. Carey is no different, you have a young kid with all the potential in the world... You protect it, not exploit it. All the counseling in the world couldn't get Theo back to his old self, nor Potvin or Jim Carrey.

Too much pressure was put on Carey's shoulders and it was fueled by the organization. I thought they would've learned from past mistakes, but no, they're destined to repeat it... Which has been a patern around here for a very long time.

It's one thing to protect your investment and try to push it some... It's another to stick labels on a player like savior and/or thoroughbred. It's unfortunate, but by the organization fueled the fire and put more pressure on the kid by forcing him into the league early, then treating him like a proven star before he even played a full season.

Fans are naturally jealous of players success... They like to see them fail. As sick and twisted as it may be, it's reality. Most got joy out of seeing Carey struggle and starting using him as their whipping boy, taking out their own frustrations out on him.

I really don't see how the mishandling of Carey hasn't taken a toll on his confidence. He knows even before the season starts, that if he struggles again, that he'll be back in their doghouse.

I really feel for this kid and don't blame him one bit if he's fed up of Montreal, their fans and this organization.

I agree with your last comment... He is a good young goalie, but with all the hype surrounding this kid, being fueled by the local media and the organization, they did more harm than good. Calling someone a thoroughbred puts the idea in people's heads that he was going to be the next Roy. Most goalie's hit their groove around 24/25. Why did they take a 20 year old, and try to force him to do what most goalie's who have come before him, couldn't?

[jcammalleri]

I think generally the past is forgotten and Carey will be measured more against what Halak does from here on in then what he's done. If Halak picks up where he left of, consistently, yes that's the standard Carey will be held to. If Halak struggles and Carey is just "good", people will think as great as the run was we made the right choice, even if Carey doesn't play up to that level.

agreed. Doesn't matter what Halak did, all that matters now is what Carey can do for us. i won't complain even if Halak turns out to be the #1 goalie in the league for the next 10 years as long as Carey is a consistent top 10.

[Walrus26]

@ FirstStar and Manatee X:

You guys have posted more quality in the space of a couple of pages than existed in the vast majority of the 300 or so of Carey Price 2009-10.

Surely there's nothing else to say about the guy until a] his contract gets signed and b] the season starts.

Excellent stuff guys, thank you.

[Kubby31]

his contract gets signed

Still waiting I see.

[catt-_mtlc]

Great post again FS. Too much expectation and hype about this kid too fast. I hope he can show us the character we know he has and have a good year.

[Kubby31]

I don't see how forcing him into the league when he wasn't ready, didn't have an impact on him. We often forget these are real people with real feelings, emotions and fears.

Too much pressure was put on Carey's shoulders and it was fueled by the organization.

I really don't see how the mishandling of Carey hasn't taken a toll on his confidence. He knows even before the season starts, that if he struggles again, that he'll be back in their doghouse.

I really feel for this kid and don't blame him one bit if he's fed up of Montreal, their fans and this organization.

Great post FS.

[Johnny_rudeboy]

Too much pressure was put on Carey's shoulders and it was fueled by the organization. I thought they would've learned from past mistakes, but no, they're destined to repeat it... Which has been a patern around here for a very long time.

It's one thing to protect your investment and try to push it some... It's another to stick labels on a player like savior and/or thoroughbred. It's unfortunate, but by the organization fueled the fire and put more pressure on the kid by forcing him into the league early, then treating him like a proven star before he even played a full season.

Fans are naturally jealous of players success... They like to see them fail. As sick and twisted as it may be, it's reality. Most got joy out of seeing Carey struggle and starting using him as their whipping boy, taking out their own frustrations out on him.

I really don't see how the mishandling of Carey hasn't taken a toll on his confidence. He knows even before the season starts, that if he struggles again, that he'll be back in their doghouse.

I really feel for this kid and don't blame him one bit if he's fed up of Montreal, their fans and this organization.

I agree with your last comment... He is a good young goalie, but with all the hype surrounding this kid, being fueled by the local media and the organization, they did more harm than good. Calling someone a thoroughbred puts the idea in people's heads that he was going to be the next Roy. Most goalie's hit their groove around 24/25. Why did they take a 20 year old, and try to force him to do what most goalie's who have come before him, couldn't?

One would have to ask Bob Gainey why he felt Price was ready when he traded Huet. At that time a lot of fans on this Forum agreed that he was ready to assume the role and excel. The few of us at the time who felt it was the wrong move (to saddle the young net minder with the #1 role) were quickly drowned out by the Price Express train.

People stated over and over that Price after the Calder Cup win (which was a team effort for anyone who watched the AHL playoffs that year) was the next great Montreal goalie. Now 3 years later many are expounding patience and the presence of a veteran goalie.

I do not feel sorrry for Price at all as he has every opportunity and more in Montreal. Maybe he believed what Bob Gainey and some others were preaching; I do not know. I don't know if his confidence has been damaged over the past 3 years. What I do know is that he has been given the opportunity once again. Regardless of his age he has played 3 full NHL seasons so for me there are no excuses. There is no one in his way other than himself. Hopefully the team will show more confidence in him the season and he can improve his slow lateral movement and glove and whatever else he needs to overcome in order to be the #1 goalie.

However that is just my opinion.

[madsprite18]

Right as usual 1970.

For many reasons it is definitely time for Price to 'put up or shut up' (I don't mean it quite as harshly as it sounds ). But based on the opportunities he was given, his last season in the backup role (for the most part), his age and the fact that there is no immediate rival

behind him - it is time to deliver or the Habs will have to scramble to find a plan "B".

I'm glad you mentioned about the Calder run - that was a very very very good team as a whole - the D especially were stellar in the playoffs and all of that often gets overlooked - Price certainly met their level which is why we won.

I still think in many ways the win would have happened if they had let Halak stay around - and in some ways he earned the right for that.

Another little discussed fact about Price is that after that season the guy was probably totally gassed - Tri-City, World Juniors, Tri-City, Bulldogs, Calder Cup Playoffs and Final - not to mention Habs rookie camps both the summer before and after and then the Habs training camp - the guy had little time to recover and absorb his many achievements - he delayed burnout for quite a while the next season but it eventually caught up - (never mind all the off ice stuff and being a small town guy adapting to the big city!)TOO MUCH TOO SOON.

This is the season where we see if he recovers from it. I'm betting he will but it would have been nice if we had taken the easy, gradual way to this point. instead of hoping he would 'pull a Dryden or a Roy'

[madsprite18]

Well FS, I'll add my voice to the chorus of others calling this a great post. Only I don't quite agree with it .

In my opinion, I just don't see the way management has treated Price as having been detrimental to his development. Detrimental to the team, maybe. Detrimental to the fans' perception of Price, definitely. But detrimental to his development?

I agree that from the team's point of view he could have been handled better, and especially that he wasn't necessarily ready for the #1 role when it was first thrust upon him. While I don't think the Canadiens could have beaten Boston in the playoffs a few years ago with Hasek in net given the way that they played, I will concede that Price was not very good in the series. And no, he wasn't great in the Philly series the year before that.

Yes it WAS detrimental to the team and after all that is what it is all about - we were the #1 seed in the East and barely squeaked by Boston and lost easily to Philly who had a (surprise surprise) hot goalie in Biron (where IS he now?) who actually stole some games for them! (sound familiar?)

Am I bitter - you bet! - One doesn't get to be the #1 seed very often and why throw away your veteran goalie (or mostly bench your other goalie with some NHL experience) to roll the dice on a very talented and promising but also VERY young rookie????

But as for hurting his development, I just don't see it. This situation isn't the same as it is for a skater who gets called up too early only to ride the pine or play 7-8 minutes a night.

A guy called Latendresse also comes to mind!

[cyoungerrr]

Trading Huet proved to be bad for Price (and Huet), and now I fear that trading Halak will be equally bad. Actually, though, it will probably bad for Halak too, as I doubt he will excel in a low pressure environment like he did in Montreal. We can talk all we want about moving on, but, like someone said, those who forget the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

[flamesgal1]

I think generally the past is forgotten and Carey will be measured more against what Halak does from here on in then what he's done. If Halak picks up where he left of, consistently, yes that's the standard Carey will be held to. If Halak struggles and Carey is just "good", people will think as great as the run was we made the right choice, even if Carey doesn't play up to that level.

And that is the way it should be. The organization made a clear choice who they were going forward with. Carey Price.

He needs to be as good or better or the organization made the wrong choice it is as simple as that.

[Alastair_LighT]

I think generally the past is forgotten and Carey will be measured more against what Halak does from here on in then what he's done. If Halak picks up where he left of, consistently, yes that's the standard Carey will be held to. If Halak struggles and Carey is just "good", people will think as great as the run was we made the right choice, even if Carey doesn't play up to that level.

Correct.

[dfrancis]

Holy smokes, 5 pages already? I told myself before the switch over for player threads, "I'm going to read all of Price's thread".

Yeah... Not happening.

[ruuvimeisseli]

[Kubby31]

By GOD...lets all hope that this season...*The Price Is Right*

Go Carey!

[Rondalsf]

Holy smokes, 5 pages already? I told myself before the switch over for player threads, "I'm going to read all of Price's thread".

Yeah... Not happening.

[I1IscottieI1I]

Halak gets 3.75M per year for 4 seasons.

What will price sign for?

Hopefully 2 mill or under

well its only .25m less then i thought he would sign for. so really he got just what I expected him to get.

[Mathradio]

By GOD...lets all hope that this season...*The Price Is Right*

Go Carey!

Carey... come on down!

If you want Price to have a good season, the D-men would have to put on their best game, including the shot-blockers.

[js2]

There have been contract talks between Price and Gauthier but they're still early in the process.

http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/status/17947976282

This is taking forever.

[leafs_rock_go_mccabe]

There have been contract talks between Price and Gauthier but they're still early in the process.

http://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/status/17947976282

This is taking forever.

Yeah, I sure would love some real news regarding Carey. Jeez, I remember listening to Gauthier on the news yesterday and he said he was, "...Confident the contract would be settled before training camp." I mean, really... Is it going to take THAT long?