Which Cities Would You Add/remove Franchises From?

[FirstStar]

I have been watching the HABS since I was born and that was back in 69 so 41 years a HABS fan for me.

So how can you be so quick to drop the Sabres yet talk about Hartford?

Those adams division games were some of the toughest games in the 80's. We didn't have the best team, but it sure was tight. Specially when the Nords started to get going.

[29Dryden29]

So how can you be so quick to drop the Sabres yet talk about Hartford?

Those adams division games were some of the toughest games in the 80's. We didn't have the best team, but it sure was tight. Specially when the Nords started to get going.

I was just saying if a team came to Hamilton and Buffalo had issues then I wouldn't think twice about letting them go either folding or moving. I was never really enthused with our Buffalo series other than our cup run when they had Fuhr and we beat them 4 straight. That was fun. But I have never really gotten into any of our series with the Sabres loved out games with the Nords and the ***** and Whalers etc but never got into the games with Buffalo.

[Nine1One]

Just a question. Are the AHL Teams and other minor professional hockey leagues primarily located in hockey towns? Could they be better utilized by say putting them into nontraditional hockey markets to try and get more people to get into it. Idunno if they do this or not, just a thought.

[whalerfan]

This is simple......

Atlanta has no support, arena is almost always empty so yes they need to move to Quebec where there is a want, a passion and a desire for the game. The city and province would respond as would corporate base. This is a no brainer

Nashville also has no support, and is not catching on. This team has laready experienced ownership issues and Bettman had to step in to try to save this team, so yes they need to move this team to Hartford, CT. There is a desire for another team, This city has learned from their mistakes and is ready and hungry for another NHL team again!

Phoenix is a disaster and is a poster child for saying " a new areana doesn't guarantee success", so yes they need to move back where they came from ....Winnipeg...PERIOD

There should be no discussion of Seattle, Cleveland, Houston, Hamilton , Vegas or KC until these cities regain their NHL teams again, teams they should never have lost in the first place...

[29Dryden29]

This is simple......

Atlanta has no support, arena is almost always empty so yes they need to move to Quebec where there is a want, a passion and a desire for the game. The city and province would respond as would corporate base. This is a no brainer

Nashville also has no support, and is not catching on. This team has laready experienced ownership issues and Bettman had to step in to try to save this team, so yes they need to move this team to Hartford, CT. There is a desire for another team, This city has learned from their mistakes and is ready and hungry for another NHL team again!

Phoenix is a disaster and is a poster child for saying " a new areana doesn't guarantee success", so yes they need to move back where they came from ....Winnipeg...PERIOD

There should be no discussion of Seattle, Cleveland, Houston, Hamilton , Vegas or KC until these cities regain their NHL teams again, teams they should never have lost in the first place...

Excellent post bravo someone that sees the through the ***** Bettman has created.

[Mathradio]

Atlanta got relocated to Calgary once. And we all know that KC has failed once; although less severe as Phoenix, KC will be just another pot of trouble.

I would have said relocate NY Islanders to Quebec City and Atlanta to Hartford and, when MLSE will have new heads that won't be that greedy anymore, the Panthers to Hamilton.

For the West: relocate Phoenix back to Winnipeg, Nashville to Milwaukee or Portland.

[FlHabsFan]

Atlanta is the only one I agree with. I disagree with the others. Becuase its personal for you guys. Unless you guys know exactly what is going on in the towns they are in, then you are just looking to move teams to where YOU want them. Your cities had teams in them. They failed to keep them there. If they were making money hand over fist like you say, then your teams would still be there.

Atlanta: I agree. Its not a hockey town in any way, shape or form. Even on a good night, you could fire a cannon and not hit anyone. Poor management/players isnt helping.

Phoenix: First, except for Florida, it is where most northerners spend the winter. Snowbirds = butts in seats. Last year, people werent buying tickets because they werent sure if the team was going to pull a Baltimore Colts and move in the middle of the night and leave them high and dry. Secure ownership is what it needs. Not a relocation. If it has another successful season next year, once again it will put butts in seats.

Nashville: Dont know enough about their situation to comment

Florida Panthers: Again, snowbirds and vacationers as well as locals make up the fan base. Because the team sucks doesnt mean jack. Like I said earlier, you move them to Winnepeg, Hartford, Quebec City, where ever, they will still be the same sucky team but in a new town with a new name and logo. Its the team management that makes a team, not the location.

Carolina: When I see them on TV, it looks full.

Tampa: Same as Phoenix and Florida. Once they got good management/ownership, they won a cup. They hopefully have good ownership/management now. Doesnt guarentee a cup, but hopefully a stronger competitive edge. The place isnt always packed, but they draw good numbers for a football/baseball town.

[whalerfan]

Atlanta is the only one I agree with. I disagree with the others. Becuase its personal for you guys. Unless you guys know exactly what is going on in the towns they are in, then you are just looking to move teams to where YOU want them. Your cities had teams in them. They failed to keep them there. If they were making money hand over fist like you say, then your teams would still be there.

Atlanta: I agree. Its not a hockey town in any way, shape or form. Even on a good night, you could fire a cannon and not hit anyone. Poor management/players isnt helping.

Phoenix: First, except for Florida, it is where most northerners spend the winter. Snowbirds = butts in seats. Last year, people werent buying tickets because they werent sure if the team was going to pull a Baltimore Colts and move in the middle of the night and leave them high and dry. Secure ownership is what it needs. Not a relocation. If it has another successful season next year, once again it will put butts in seats.

Nashville: Dont know enough about their situation to comment

Florida Panthers: Again, snowbirds and vacationers as well as locals make up the fan base. Because the team sucks doesnt mean jack. Like I said earlier, you move them to Winnepeg, Hartford, Quebec City, where ever, they will still be the same sucky team but in a new town with a new name and logo. Its the team management that makes a team, not the location.

Carolina: When I see them on TV, it looks full.

Tampa: Same as Phoenix and Florida. Once they got good management/ownership, they won a cup. They hopefully have good ownership/management now. Doesnt guarentee a cup, but hopefully a stronger competitive edge. The place isnt always packed, but they draw good numbers for a football/baseball town.

Not personal ( to a point).....I'm looking to move teams where there is a demand for a team......

Atlanta is a joke and should never have been awarded another franchise and I blame Bettman for this...period. They must be moved.

Phoenix....I disagree with you on this. There was a save the coyote rally and 500 people showed up....500. In Hartford we had a downtown parade for winning one round in the playoffs and got 30,000 to show up. Snowbirds are not enough to guarantee success and most snowbirds would be cheering for another team. The fan base is just not there and there has plenty of time to build it to a point where it should be better than what it currently is.

Nashville is another blunder from Bettman....It is not catching on at all. I was in Nashville and spoke to many residents and they told me the current feeling is "nobody cares"...and the arena is in a great location , in the heart of the honky tonk strip with all the bars and restaurants.....I would give them another 5 years and then relocation if the current status doesn't improve.

Carolina is doing well and like I've said they were very fortunate to steal a team that was on the rise. Its easy to get 16,000 plus when you've been to the cup finals twice and won the cup once in a short 13 year team history....also helps to fill the arena with many ticket giveaways and having some of the cheapest tickets in the NHL

Florida and Tampa get more time in my opinion......Atlanta, Nashville and Phoenix should be calling the moving trucks

[29Dryden29]

Not personal ( to a point).....I'm looking to move teams where there is a demand for a team......

Atlanta is a joke and should never have been awarded another franchise and I blame Bettman for this...period. They must be moved.

Phoenix....I disagree with you on this. There was a save the coyote rally and 500 people showed up....500. In Hartford we had a downtown parade for winning one round in the playoffs and got 30,000 to show up. Snowbirds are not enough to guarantee success and most snowbirds would be cheering for another team. The fan base is just not there and there has plenty of time to build it to a point where it should be better than what it currently is.

Nashville is another blunder from Bettman....It is not catching on at all. I was in Nashville and spoke to many residents and they told me the current feeling is "nobody cares"...and the arena is in a great location , in the heart of the honky tonk strip with all the bars and restaurants.....I would give them another 5 years and then relocation if the current status doesn't improve.

Carolina is doing well and like I've said they were very fortunate to steal a team that was on the rise. Its easy to get 16,000 plus when you've been to the cup finals twice and won the cup once in a short 13 year team history....also helps to fill the arena with many ticket giveaways and having some of the cheapest tickets in the NHL

Florida and Tampa get more time in my opinion......Atlanta, Nashville and Phoenix should be calling the moving trucks

I was in Nashville last season for the HABS game and let me tell you the barn was not full not even close lower bowl was maybe about to 3/4 full if that and the upper deck had empty seats throughout. I was wearing a HABS jersey walking through downtown and people had no clue what it was I was even asked what team was on the jersey. I was also asked who George Vezina was I tried to explain and as soon as they heard hockey they didn't care. On game day you can walk up and get tickets for the game in lower and upper bowls.

[Manatee-X]

And moving them would make the team play better? Thats the point I was trying to make. Moving a team doesnt make them play better. You could move the Panthers anywhere in the world. If they keep the same owners, coaching & players, they are still going to be bad.

This is the key point that a lot of people are forgetting, IMO.

There are two things that make for a successful hockey franchise: location and winning. Some locations, like Toronto, are so strong that they can ice a completely uncompetitive team year in and year out and still sell crazy amounts of merchandise. There are a few other places that could pull this off (maybe New York, maybe Montreal) but these places are most certainly the exception and not the rule. Most cities- on both sides of the border - require a successful team in order to consistently draw a crowd.

This is why I find it funny that people are assuming that if we could just up and move Florida or Atlanta to somewhere where it snows they would instantly start making huge dollars. Even take Hamilton as an example. It's true that with all the hype I have no doubt that if you moved the Florida panthers to Hamilton this season you'd sell out most of the games. Probably the next year, too. But the year after that? And after that? What happens when the new Hamilton team can't get above 13th in the East for three or four seasons? Even worse, what happens if (God forbid ) the Maple Leafs go on a tear? Do you really think people are still going to be buying Hamiton Panthers sweaters at that point?

My point is, no matter how much a city 'loves' hockey they're not going to be able to realistically support a losing team. The die-hards will always be there, but the casual fans just won't turn out. You put a winning team in even a bad market and they can do great things, like what happened in Dallas. They built a fan base there, right in the heart of Texas.

[Manatee-X]

I will say, though, that if I were going to move a team it would be Nashville. The reason is that they seem to be able to do consistantly well despite having one of the lowest budgets in the league. The problem is that they're stuck in a sort of limbo... they're not quite good enough to have legitimate cup hopes so they don't draw the fans they could and they don't make enough to afford a better team. But they're also managed so well that they never get a great draft pick despite their tiny budget.

Give the current management team one year in a sold out arena and I really think they could work wonders in making their team a compeitor. Alternatively, it would be nice to see the Preds have the same kind of Cinderella run that we did this year. It might help push them over the hump.

[Mathradio]

In places like Nashville, any publicity is good publicity. But I suspect that Poile won't allow Kostitsyn's off-ice antics to be publicized until he actually plays better. Only if he became a top-six forward, nay, play on Nashville's top line, he would actually make the headlines in Nashville.

[Fanpuck33]

I was in Nashville last season for the HABS game and let me tell you the barn was not full not even close lower bowl was maybe about to 3/4 full if that and the upper deck had empty seats throughout. I was wearing a HABS jersey walking through downtown and people had no clue what it was I was even asked what team was on the jersey. I was also asked who George Vezina was I tried to explain and as soon as they heard hockey they didn't care. On game day you can walk up and get tickets for the game in lower and upper bowls.

Big deal. You can say the same thing about more than half the league. Why would you expect an average citizen in Nashville to know about Georges Vezina? Even people who have taken a liking to hockey aren't going to know much about the history of the league or even any of the trophy names. As I've said repeatedly, expansion isn't about the current generation of adults - it's about the next one. The kids who are now growing up on hockey will know the history and create a more avid fanbase toward the sport of hockey. Just because the current adults don't know hockey doesn't mean the next generation won't.

[Mathradio]

In this case, let Nashville stand.

[CANADIENS27]

Atlanta got relocated to Calgary once. And we all know that KC has failed once; although less severe as Phoenix, KC will be just another pot of trouble.

I would have said relocate NY Islanders to Quebec City and Atlanta to Hartford and, when MLSE will have new heads that won't be that greedy anymore, the Panthers to Hamilton.

For the West: relocate Phoenix back to Winnipeg, Nashville to Milwaukee or Portland.

Denver also had a team at the same time Kansas City did. They went to New Jersey and Washington, D.C. Which one went to New Jersey and which one went to Washington?

[29Dryden29]

I will say, though, that if I were going to move a team it would be Nashville. The reason is that they seem to be able to do consistantly well despite having one of the lowest budgets in the league. The problem is that they're stuck in a sort of limbo... they're not quite good enough to have legitimate cup hopes so they don't draw the fans they could and they don't make enough to afford a better team. But they're also managed so well that they never get a great draft pick despite their tiny budget.

Give the current management team one year in a sold out arena and I really think they could work wonders in making their team a compeitor. Alternatively, it would be nice to see the Preds have the same kind of Cinderella run that we did this year. It might help push them over the hump.

The problem in Nashville is they lack corporate support they have the average joe fan support but they can't beg borrow or steal a corporate support sector to save their lives. They are a perrenial one and done team and they have to compete with football and Vanderbilt for NCAA basketball and football so it really is a tough go for our game in the heart of country music.

[Brisebois]

I would add:

Québec City

Winnipeg

I would remove:

Atlanta

Nashville

Florida

Carolina

Anaheim

Phoenix

Columbus

NY Islanders

The NHL would then be reduced to 24 teams. 4 divisions with 6 teams each. The first 4 teams of each division make the play-offs. The players from the teams I removed/folded go into a pool and a draft will be held afterwords. Each team can pick players out of this pool. The players contracts still stay the same. After that draft there will be an expansion draft for the 2 new teams. With only 24 teams the talent of the players on the ice would be much better.

[FlHabsFan]

So you would remove 2 teams who in the last 5 years have each won a Stanley cup? Interesting.

[Fanpuck33]

The NHL would then be reduced to 24 teams. 4 divisions with 6 teams each. The first 4 teams of each division make the play-offs. The players from the teams I removed/folded go into a pool and a draft will be held afterwords. Each team can pick players out of this pool. The players contracts still stay the same. After that draft there will be an expansion draft for the 2 new teams. With only 24 teams the talent of the players on the ice would be much better.

By taking out 6 teams from the league, you are removing 138 players. These will be the fringe players who are not making very much money. That means the percentage of highly paid players on each team must increase. This would require the salary cap to be raised artificially. Sure, the league might be able to justify raising the cap like this because the team who were losing money are gone. However, when the cap rises, so does the floor, making it harder and harder for the remaining smaller market teams. With increased spending from such teams, they will begin to lose money and the league will be right back where it started before contracting the six teams.

[Brisebois]

So you would remove 2 teams who in the last 5 years have each won a Stanley cup? Interesting.

Well I don't think California needs 3 NHL teams. So I picked the Sharks and the Kings to stay in the league. Carolina has one a Cup but otherwise they are a disgrace to hockey.

[Kubby31]

I was wearing a HABS jersey walking through downtown and people had no clue what it was I was even asked what team was on the jersey.

Damm....WOW!

[FlHabsFan]

Well I don't think California needs 3 NHL teams. So I picked the Sharks and the Kings to stay in the league. Carolina has one a Cup but otherwise they are a disgrace to hockey.

Yeah, but California is about the same size as 3-4 other states and has a huge population

[29Dryden29]

Damm....WOW!

Ya and I wasn't the only HABS fan asked that was wearing a jersey even funnier were the Buffalo fans in town for the Titans Bills game that were left shaking their heads at the questions. I talked to a few of the Buffalo fans and they felt it was horrible that no one knew much about us or hockey in general.

[Brisebois]

Yeah, but California is about the same size as 3-4 other states and has a huge population

Yeah, but California isn't a hockey state. A team in the Bay Area (the Sharks) and in the L.A. Area (the Kings) would be enough.

[FlHabsFan]

Yeah, but California isn't a hockey state. A team in the Bay Area (the Sharks) and in the L.A. Area (the Kings) would be enough.

Says you. What constitutes a hockey state? The Sharks compete every year. Anaheim had a dip, but still competes and like I said, they won a cup just a couple seasons ago. What says either of these teams or the Kings should go away? Lets look at some numbers here. The population of California is approximately 38 million people. The population of the entire country of Canada? 36 million. Using those numbers Canada 6 teams with fewer residents then California who has 3 teams.

With the exception of Atlanta and possibly Nashville, no one has a reasonable response on why to either disband or move the teams. Other then to say, this area or that place deserves them more.