Game #31: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 Flyers @ Canadiens 7:30 Pm

[FirstStar]

PK had a goal and an assist for us, and 2 assists for the Flyers...

Must be why he go the 3rd star... Well, it was a toss up between PK and the refs.

Fine, I'm not saying the Flyers aren't a good team because they are. But the fact is that with them capitlizing on chances in close, we were 3-3 with 6 minutes to go and it was a 3-3 where we were easily the better team and the team with momentum. If the rules were called the way they were written, the Flyers would have had to kill at least 2-3 more penalties, including one near the end instead of us... and the GWG would not have been scored in the way it was. If it's us starting a PP with 5-6 minutes to go and with the way the game had played out until then, I think the odds of us winning the game have to be > 80%.

And 2 of those times they wouldn't have come in close if there hadn't been a missed call.

Flyers are a strong team this year, but the Habs outplayed them tonight.

Horseshoe's in their shorts... I'm positive.

it wasn't a mullet, it was a mop

The Carrot top cut.

Minus all the stage props.

[BigTed3]

Refs can influence a game, but do not decide it. MTL had a chance to win, and were WAY more rested than the Flyers were, who were obviously absolutely spent after the Pitt game. It's the way hockey goes. Had Subban not made the mistakes he made, maybe the turnout would have been different.

I don't believe this for a second. Refs influence games and the way they influence games can directly affect the outcome. How can you argue the Flyers score the GWG without the refs help tonight? Montreal had chances to win but those chances were created by being the better team and out-skating a tired team. Those chances were there, at least in tonight's case, because Montreal was the better team. Yes, you need to be opportunistic, but one of the first pillars of all sports is that they should be played on an even playing field, and that just does not happen in the NHL. I'm a fan of other sports too and you just don't see this degree of ineptitude and blatant turning of blind eyes in MLB or the NFL or CFL. There are bad calls in all those leagues, but it's just not as flagrant as it is in the NHL.

Thing is... For the last 3 games, we've been getting shafted and not the way the leafs cry about the refs, truly shafted. In our last 3 games, we've gone deep into the 2nd and sometimes into the 3rd without a PP. And you can't tell me that your flyers, who are the most penalized team in the NHL, were disciplined through 40 minutes. Same for the bottom leafs... Went over 2 periods without a PK, that's a lil suspect if you ask me.

There was a delay of game in the 1st, which is suppose to be automatic... Just ask Hamrlik.

Yup. It's not like we had been given 6 PP's and then the refs became more picky about what to call against the other teams. And it's not like they were calling zilcho both ways. The refs in the last 3 games have nailed us for some borderline calls that they just haven't made the other ways.

[iLikeTurtles18]

Thing is... For the last 3 games, we've been getting shafted and not the way the leafs cry about the refs, truly shafted. In our last 3 games, we've gone deep into the 2nd and sometimes into the 3rd without a PP. And you can't tell me that your flyers, who are the most penalized team in the NHL, were disciplined through 40 minutes. Same for the bottom leafs... Went over 2 periods without a PK, that's a lil suspect if you ask me.

There was a delay of game in the 1st, which is suppose to be automatic... Just ask Hamrlik.

Trust me, if anyone understands what it feels like to get shafted by the refs, its me since I'm a Flyer's fan. I'm so used to us going down a man at the most inopportune times that it doesn't phase me anymore.

I didn't notice quite as many non-calls against the Flyers as you saw, but I did see some.

I suppose my point is that this is the way hockey goes...The Flyers MAY have had an advantage in those non-calls...yet, at the same time the Canadiens had an advantage in being at home, having WAY more rest and the flyers being on the 2nd end of back-to-backs. In hockey, you have to take what you're given..I believe that instead of blaming the refs, blame Price for a couple soft goals, blame Subban for turning the puck over at inopportune times. At the end of the day, the Flyers found a way to score more goals than the Habs.

I enjoyed the game and you guys have one hell of a scary team, and I don't expect this kind of result every game we have with you.

[FirstStar]

I don't believe this for a second. Refs influence games and the way they influence games can directly affect the outcome. How can you argue the Flyers score the GWG without the refs help tonight? Montreal had chances to win but those chances were created by being the better team and out-skating a tired team. Those chances were there, at least in tonight's case, because Montreal was the better team. Yes, you need to be opportunistic, but one of the first pillars of all sports is that they should be played on an even playing field, and that just does not happen in the NHL. I'm a fan of other sports too and you just don't see this degree of ineptitude and blatant turning of blind eyes in MLB or the NFL or CFL. There are bad calls in all those leagues, but it's just not as flagrant as it is in the NHL.

Yup. It's not like we had been given 6 PP's and then the refs became more picky about what to call against the other teams. And it's not like they were calling zilcho both ways. The refs in the last 3 games have nailed us for some borderline calls that they just haven't made the other ways.

You see it in baseball all the time... Calling ball when it was a strike, etc... But the difference with the NFL is that you can contest a call, which I would like the NHL to do as well. You have thr right to contest the call, but just like in the case of an over-curved blade, if the team contesting is wrong, then they get delay of game penalty.

[FirstStar]

Every team gets shafted by the refs... I believe it was the wings last year, a goal as counted when it was clearly not a goal. The net came up off the moorings just enough for the puck to slip under, the ref seeing it in the back of the net counted it as a goal.

It happens, but I wonder, of those teams who are shafted... Who were they playing that night, is it always the same team who gets the lucky breaks?

Shouldn't look at the teams who get the shaft, but look at which team benefits from the shaft... That would be interesting to check out.

Better be a fairly reffed game tomorrow or else I'm throwing my desjardins nacho's on the ice.

[iLikeTurtles18]

Every team gets shafted by the refs... I believe it was the wings last year, a goal as counted when it was clearly not a goal. The net came up off the moorings just enough for the puck to slip under, the ref seeing it in the back of the net counted it as a goal.

It happens, but I wonder, of those teams who are shafted... Who were they playing that night, is it always the same team who gets the lucky breaks?

Shouldn't look at the teams who get the shaft, but look at which team benefits from the shaft... That would be interesting to check out.

Better be a fairly reffed game tomorrow or else I'm throwing my desjardins nacho's on the ice.

Well, I promise you that the Flyers aren't held in high favor by the refs...we ARE the most penalized team in the league, after all

[BigTed3]

Trust me, if anyone understands what it feels like to get shafted by the refs, its me since I'm a Flyer's fan. I'm so used to us going down a man at the most inopportune times that it doesn't phase me anymore.

I didn't notice quite as many non-calls against the Flyers as you saw, but I did see some.

I suppose my point is that this is the way hockey goes...The Flyers MAY have had an advantage in those non-calls...yet, at the same time the Canadiens had an advantage in being at home, having WAY more rest and the flyers being on the 2nd end of back-to-backs. In hockey, you have to take what you're given..I believe that instead of blaming the refs, blame Price for a couple soft goals, blame Subban for turning the puck over at inopportune times. At the end of the day, the Flyers found a way to score more goals than the Habs.

I enjoyed the game and you guys have one hell of a scary team, and I don't expect this kind of result every game we have with you.

Sure, but the advantages your talking about are built into the schedule. Every team plays the same number of home and away games. Every team has to play back-to-back and we've played our fair share against teams that are fresh. I understand that that will happen and it evens out over the course of a year. But the refs should not be trying to compensate for one team being tired by giving them more PP's. The fact remains that if you watch games, there are certain teams that get the benefit of the doubt more often than others, and other teams that get the short end of the stick. I don't believe we are the only team, but I do believe the habs are one of several teams that rarely get calls going their way.

As an example, if team A commits ten infractions that should have been called by a robotic ref and team B commits 6, but at the end of the day, team A is called for 5 and team B for 3, that's fair. But if Team A is called for 3/10 and team B for 3/6, that's not fair. In tonight's game, if I had to estimate, I could say the Flyers were called for 2/10 and the Habs for 3/7... and that's not fair by any means. The game needs to be called by the rulebook and it frequently isn't. Yet the bigger problem is that there is not consistency as to when the rulebook is enforced and when it isn't. Bill McCreary has always been a guy who calls less than other guys, but for him to ignore the high stick (that he must have seen since he was right there) and then to award the Flyers a PP ten seconds later is very weak.

[gardien55]

Refs can influence a game, but do not decide it. MTL had a chance to win, and were WAY more rested than the Flyers were, who were obviously absolutely spent after the Pitt game. It's the way hockey goes. Had Subban not made the mistakes he made, maybe the turnout would have been different.

And they played like they we "WAY more rested"... they out-shot the Flyers, won more face-offs, and had less turnovers and more take-aways, but the Habs' giveaways were more costly.

I didn't want to join the "blame game", but to deny that these refs had undue influence in this one would be ignorance on my part... the Flyers visibly were tired and played clutch-and-grab in both the neutral zone and their own thru 2/3 of the 3e period without a single call... both refs really missed all of that ? Really ? Really ?? And I'm getting sick and tired of seeing "slashing" called every time one of these resin toothpicks they call sticks breaks on little more than a hard stick check.

I don't feel good about the giveaway on the 5e goal, but I'd be even more livid if they'd have won by one on that crap PP.

Boston lost to Buffalo tonight and our boys play the B's tomorrow... I pray the Habs come out flying !

[Guest]

Better be a fairly reffed game tomorrow or else I'm throwing my desjardins nacho's on the ice.

Bring some extra waffles.

[habby67]

I have seen this way too many times with this team. Good effort against the Wings and once again a lackluster effort against the Leafs leads into many bad habits. Its not the first time it has happened and it won't be the last. In a heart beat we can be in 8th place by the end of the week. I don't mind the losing as its part of the game and all part of an up and down long season but it's just the way they lose. When they play poor teams they seem to dumbify themselves so to speak and it takes them a while to get out of their rut. Sickening to say the least...

[ColRouleBleu]

CRB is missing...anyone know if she's at the game????

came home just in time for puck drop and spent the game throwing my sponge brick at the TV, aiming for the zebras

[iLikeTurtles18]

Sure, but the advantages your talking about are built into the schedule. Every team plays the same number of home and away games. Every team has to play back-to-back and we've played our fair share against teams that are fresh. I understand that that will happen and it evens out over the course of a year. But the refs should not be trying to compensate for one team being tired by giving them more PP's. The fact remains that if you watch games, there are certain teams that get the benefit of the doubt more often than others, and other teams that get the short end of the stick. I don't believe we are the only team, but I do believe the habs are one of several teams that rarely get calls going their way.

As an example, if team A commits ten infractions that should have been called by a robotic ref and team B commits 6, but at the end of the day, team A is called for 5 and team B for 3, that's fair. But if Team A is called for 3/10 and team B for 3/6, that's not fair. In tonight's game, if I had to estimate, I could say the Flyers were called for 2/10 and the Habs for 3/7... and that's not fair by any means. The game needs to be called by the rulebook and it frequently isn't. Yet the bigger problem is that there is not consistency as to when the rulebook is enforced and when it isn't. Bill McCreary has always been a guy who calls less than other guys, but for him to ignore the high stick (that he must have seen since he was right there) and then to award the Flyers a PP ten seconds later is very weak.

If you're talking about the NHL officiating as a whole, then I totally agree with you. It seems as though the refs look at things very subjectively, and out of every sport the NHL is the least predictable and the least consistent. I think I'd be supportive of the "challenge" option in future seasons. The NHL is the fastest sport and for the refs to see everything would be impossible.

Like I had mentioned earlier, knowing that the referees aren't totally fair and consistent, you just have to deal with what is given to you. My Flyer's are killing off at least 4 penalties almost every night...If one of those is a bad call, there's nothing you can really do except count on your PK unit to take care of it. It can be frustrating, but that's the game. In my opinion, the Canadiens played better for most of the game tonight. Sure, there were some bad calls, but the bad calls didn't cause Price to let in soft goals, nor did it cause your forwards to not capitalize on some key chances.

At the end of the day, the team that makes the most of its opportunities wins, and tonight it was the Flyers.

[ColRouleBleu]

does pleks and cammy take turns wearing the "A"?

yes, with gorges and gomez also

Your GDT record is starting to look up....

:lol:

[BigTed3]

If you're talking about the NHL officiating as a whole, then I totally agree with you. It seems as though the refs look at things very subjectively, and out of every sport the NHL is the least predictable and the least consistent. I think I'd be supportive of the "challenge" option in future seasons. The NHL is the fastest sport and for the refs to see everything would be impossible.

Like I had mentioned earlier, knowing that the referees aren't totally fair and consistent, you just have to deal with what is given to you. My Flyer's are killing off at least 4 penalties almost every night...If one of those is a bad call, there's nothing you can really do except count on your PK unit to take care of it. It can be frustrating, but that's the game. In my opinion, the Canadiens played better for most of the game tonight. Sure, there were some bad calls, but the bad calls didn't cause Price to let in soft goals, nor did it cause your forwards to not capitalize on some key chances.

At the end of the day, the team that makes the most of its opportunities wins, and tonight it was the Flyers.

Last year, about 2/3 of the way through the season, I believe the Habs were the most (or second-most) penalized team in the league and the team with the fewest PP chances. I don't know what the stats are this year, but I am relatively sure we have been called for more penalties in 75% of the games we've played this year too. So it's not just a subjective feeling. but the frustrating thing is that when you look at the film, the Habs are committing no more infractions than the opposition. We just get called more often. Tonight again, the Flyers had more PP chances, including the one that sealed the game, despite the fact I believe they committed more potential infractions (or at the very least the same number). You can argue that in one game, it's hard to blame one single PP difference, but this has happened to us three straight games and multiple times this year and over the last 2-3 years. The officiating has dropped off over the past 3 seasons and I find we happen to be one of the teams (as supported by the numbers) that get short-changed more than we gain. The Flyers, I agree, kill their fair share of penalties, but the Flyers also play a rougher game and play more on the edge of what's legal. When you push the envelope like that, you're going to get called more, but as a proportion of what they actually commit, I think it's around the league average. The Habs are a skating team and speed should in general draw penalties, but the numbers don't reflect that.

[ColRouleBleu]

Pouliot high-sticked in front of the net... no call. And then Pleks gets one at the other end. Where's the freaking consistency???

i think i still havent calmed down from that one ... that was the game RIGHT THERE!

[iLikeTurtles18]

Last year, about 2/3 of the way through the season, I believe the Habs were the most (or second-most) penalized team in the league and the team with the fewest PP chances. I don't know what the stats are this year, but I am relatively sure we have been called for more penalties in 75% of the games we've played this year too. So it's not just a subjective feeling. but the frustrating thing is that when you look at the film, the Habs are committing no more infractions than the opposition. We just get called more often. Tonight again, the Flyers had more PP chances, including the one that sealed the game, despite the fact I believe they committed more potential infractions (or at the very least the same number). You can argue that in one game, it's hard to blame one single PP difference, but this has happened to us three straight games and multiple times this year and over the last 2-3 years. The officiating has dropped off over the past 3 seasons and I find we happen to be one of the teams (as supported by the numbers) that get short-changed more than we gain. The Flyers, I agree, kill their fair share of penalties, but the Flyers also play a rougher game and play more on the edge of what's legal. When you push the envelope like that, you're going to get called more, but as a proportion of what they actually commit, I think it's around the league average. The Habs are a skating team and speed should in general draw penalties, but the numbers don't reflect that.

Yeah, I can't speak for the other games because I haven't been watching the Habs until tonight.

But, I wouldn't sweat it...from what I saw, MTL is right up there with the Flyers and the slump you're in won't last too long - you guys are too talented. Here's to hoping Pitt and Washington keep losing, though

[BigTed3]

Yeah, I can't speak for the other games because I haven't been watching the Habs until tonight.

But, I wouldn't sweat it...from what I saw, MTL is right up there with the Flyers and the slump you're in won't last too long - you guys are too talented. Here's to hoping Pitt and Washington keep losing, though

I don't know that we're in the same class as Phi, Pit, Was, and Bos just yet. We rely too much on goaltending to get the job done and the efforts haven't been consistent up and down the line-up. We have a talented group of forwards, but we are really lacking on D, where we are asking guys who should be 3-4-5 guys to play the role of 1-2 guys. I can see us being a good second-tier team with TB and the NYR and Ott and the like, teams that can challenge the good teams on any given night but that aren't structured enough to dominate for long stretches. Even though the top 8 teams in the East right now are well clear of 9-15, the rankings will close up over the year and every point is still important.

[ColRouleBleu]

i've started to use the names of players like glass, clutter buck , shatten kirk lol

try powe, yip, goc, lovejoy, hecht, crabbs

[Mathradio]

The Habs can win as long as the refs aren't that biased. However, I am inclined to think that they somehow were in that game.

[sharpshooter14]

Last year, about 2/3 of the way through the season, I believe the Habs were the most (or second-most) penalized team in the league and the team with the fewest PP chances. I don't know what the stats are this year, but I am relatively sure we have been called for more penalties in 75% of the games we've played this year too. So it's not just a subjective feeling. but the frustrating thing is that when you look at the film, the Habs are committing no more infractions than the opposition. We just get called more often. Tonight again, the Flyers had more PP chances, including the one that sealed the game, despite the fact I believe they committed more potential infractions (or at the very least the same number). You can argue that in one game, it's hard to blame one single PP difference, but this has happened to us three straight games and multiple times this year and over the last 2-3 years. The officiating has dropped off over the past 3 seasons and I find we happen to be one of the teams (as supported by the numbers) that get short-changed more than we gain. The Flyers, I agree, kill their fair share of penalties, but the Flyers also play a rougher game and play more on the edge of what's legal. When you push the envelope like that, you're going to get called more, but as a proportion of what they actually commit, I think it's around the league average. The Habs are a skating team and speed should in general draw penalties, but the numbers don't reflect that.

Stats are:

Flyers powerplay opportunities this season 139 vs montreal 104

times shorthanded Flyers 147 vs montreal 124

For a team that plays a very rough and dirty game the diff between PPO's and TSH is 8 Not much of a spread between the two

Montreal on the other hand has a diff of 20 and one of the least PPO's in the league

Pittsburg PPO's 137 TSH 136

Detroit PPO's 128 TSH 111

[sharpshooter14]

Yeah, I can't speak for the other games because I haven't been watching the Habs until tonight.

But, I wouldn't sweat it...from what I saw, MTL is right up there with the Flyers and the slump you're in won't last too long - you guys are too talented. Here's to hoping Pitt and Washington keep losing, though

Talent has nothing to do with it....it's all about the ref's and the guy running the league. I guess they figure the Canadiens have way too many championships hanging in the rafters and the last thing they want to see is another one added to the collection.

[roy_133]

Talent has nothing to do with it....it's all about the ref's and the guy running the league. I guess they figure the Canadiens have way too many championships hanging in the rafters and the last thing they want to see is another one added to the collection.

Yes, and the best way to prevent that is by screwing them in December.

The Habs are a cash cow for the league, there's no reason to conspire against them. A conspiracy that large makes no sense anyway, there's too many moving pieces and it's far too risky. There's potentially single refs with biases or even potentially more sinister issues but a league wide conspiracy just doesn't make a lot of sense. Anyway, poor officiating tonight.

[Flyers-2010]

The refs missed a lot of calls from both sides, there's no "conspiracy" or whatever, c'mon..

[kinot-1]

The refs missed a lot of calls from both sides, there's no "conspiracy" or whatever, c'mon..

This calls for a new thread.

[Habsturies]

Too many mistakes for a first time five goals against in the season.

IMO the best player tonight Gomez.