Proposed Alignment Changes

[Manatee-X]

But even if that's the case...

- does the Eastern team crossing over automatically finish 8th (and thus still get penalized)?

- the Eastern team, as you said, is penalized by extra travel in the playoffs

- the schedules are unbalanced and unequal for teams competing for the same playoff spot

So still hate it. The premise of a competitive sports league is that all teams, as much as possible should start on equal footing, and the whole idea of unbalanced conferences throws that out the window. If Bettman is so worried about one extra team staying in the same conference it's in now, maybe he should have thought about all the problems he created when he watered down the talent pool with his mindless expansion plans.

I agree with you, but your arguement is based on the Eastern conference getting another team and everything else remaining largely as it is. My understanding of the new proposal was that "Eastern" and "Western" conferences aren't even going to exist anymore. As a result the playoffs won't be divided into Eastern and Western halves like they are now.

Why not do it more like baseball? You've got four divisions and four division leaders who get in as seeds 1-4. After that there are 12 league-wide wildcard slots.

Now sure, if your division has eight instead of seven there's technically less of a chance to get in as division leader. If you're close enough for it to matter, though, you're still getting in as a wilcard (and likely a high seed) regardless.

[Manatee-X]

I'm confused...help? so their would be 16 eastern conference team and 14 western conference teams?

For next year (2012-2013) chances are nothing is really going to change. The jets will move to the Central Division and the Wings will probably move to the North-East (with some other minor shuffling as needed). Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=371566

There was talk, however, of abolishing the conferences altogether and realigning things into four divisions based more around time-zones. You'd play teams in your own division more often, but you'd play one home game and one away game against every team each year. The playoff format would be different too, likely starting with division matchups.

It's all still really up in the air, though. They're only in the proposal stage.

[hatethosebruins]

For next year (2012-2013) chances are nothing is really going to change. The jets will move to the Central Division and the Wings will probably move to the North-East (with some other minor shuffling as needed). Source: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=371566

There was talk, however, of abolishing the conferences altogether and realigning things into four divisions based more around time-zones. You'd play teams in your own division more often, but you'd play one home game and one away game against every team each year. The playoff format would be different too, likely starting with division matchups.

It's all still really up in the air, though. They're only in the proposal stage.

They have a whole season, lets get all the illogical stuff out of the way now

[Dynastygods]

Well I like what the league have in mind. Here's how I would align the divisions -

EAST

Montreal, Boston, Toronto, Ottawa,NY Rangers, NY Islanders, New Jersey, Philadelphia

CENTRAL

Detroit, Chicago, Winnipeg, Minnesota, St. Louis, Buffalo, Pittsburgh

SOUTH

Dallas, Carolina, Florida, Tampa Bay, Nashville, Columbus, Washington,

WEST

San Jose, Colorado, Anaheim, Phoenix, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Los Angeles

Almost the same as the original but I like this one better. Rivalries such as Toronto-Montreal Detroit-St.Louis can continue, and the only matches I'm kinda iffy about is Winnipeg-Buffalo and Dallas looks outta place but I think this one looks good for geographic location.

[powerplay2009]

I think if we have 7-8 teams a division, all the Original 6 should be in the same division. It doesn't make sense geographically, I know, but it should be that way for the history.

[Hyperlink]

I made a map of all the NHL team locations:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=fr&gl=ca&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=210622434184896841547.0004a3b7c9ce7edf95ade

I base my division on a 6 division system but I can see why 4 divisions make sense. There would first be 2*7 teams divisions and 2*8 teams divisions. Chances are that 2 team will go bankrupt within the next 10 years so it'll just end up being a 28 teams league with 4*7 teams divisions.

Anyway, the revenue sharing system would work much better if there were less "poor" team benefiting from it. A lot of teams are just throwing money away like the Islanders. The team they iced last year was a joke. They don't even try to substitute their injured players, put them on LTIR and try to be competitive by replacing them by NHL players.

[Forever_Habs10]

NHL COMMISSIONER BETTMAN TACKLING REALIGNMENT, COYOTES....Gary Bettman's leadership skills are about to be put to the test.

With the NHL in discussions about realignment -- a process the commissioner describes as being "among the most difficult and potentially contentious issues" a sports league can face -- Bettman knows it likely won't be possible to keep everybody happy.

"You do the best you can," he said in a wide-ranging interview with The Canadian Press. "There are probably four or five clubs that would like to see something different in alignment. All of those clubs have had a chance to address their concerns and make their position clear to the rest of the board -- we did that at the meeting (on Sept. 20). It's a process that's ongoing.

"But alignment isn't just geographic groupings -- it's how many clubs play each other, how you qualify for the playoffs, how the playoffs play out -- that's among the most difficult and potentially contentious issues any sports league can deal with. We started that process and we're going to work our way through it."

Bettman wants a final decision to be made at the board of governors meeting in December. A new league setup requires the support of two-thirds of owners and would be put in place for the 2012-13 season.

It's been more than a decade since the NHL last changed its alignment, but the relocation of the Atlanta Thrashers to Winnipeg necessitated a shakeup. The Jets will spend this season in the Eastern Conference before moving West next year and a number of teams are eager to be shuffled around with them.

Various proposals have been discussed -- ranging from a minor tweak that would see Winnipeg switch places with a Western team to a major shakeup that would see the league rearranged into four new conferences.

One governor who attended last month's board meeting said Bettman did a good job of listening to the wishes of each individual team, particularly the five that most want to be moved out of their current division (Detroit, Columbus, Nashville, Minnesota and Dallas). The goal now is to try and satisfy the various desires that were expressed.

"We have a sense of where all the clubs (are at)," said Bettman. "Looking for a consensus within what the clubs told us, we'll try to develop a framework that we think will get us to the right place."

Once the realignment issue is settled, the commissioner will enter into an even more important set of negotiations.

The collective bargaining agreement is set to expire Sept. 15, 2012, and Bettman expects to start discussions with NHL Players' Association executive director Donald Fehr shortly after the all-star break at the end of January. While the NHL says it is prepared to begin negotiations at any time, Bettman notes that his counterpart has a "steep learning curve to get through" after taking the job less than a year ago.

"Donald has made clear to me that he still has some homework to do and preparation to do," said Bettman. "He didn't think he would be in a position to start substantive discussions or negotiations until at least all-star (time). We have a year to go, they're not ready to talk and so as far as I'm concerned for the world this is a back burner issue.

"Let's focus on playing hockey."

Another issue sure to take some attention away from the ice in the coming months is the ongoing uncertainty with the Phoenix Coyotes.

The NHL has been operating the money-losing franchise for two seasons while searching for a new owner. Bettman feels progress has been made on that front recently and made it clear a sale needs to happen soon.

"We're running it as long as we think is necessary and appropriate," he said. "I hope to be out of that business certainly before the end of this season."

Among the other topics Bettman touched on:

-- On fighting in the wake of three enforcers dying over the summer: "It's something that always gets discussed. I think those who have historically been against fighting try to paint these individuals' different situations with a broad brush. And I'm not sure that that's a valid assumption."

-- On whether anything will be done to try to prevent similar tragedies in the future: "We've actually had a meeting (with the NHLPA) to discuss it. I know the Players' Association is looking to get some feedback from its initial club visits at the start of the season -- getting feedback from the players before focusing on what additional steps might be taken."

-- On the new concussion protocol, which requires players with a possible head injury to be tested in a quiet area before returning to play: "We intend to enforce the protocol. I'm not using this as a forum to be threatening clubs, but everybody knows what's expected and we expect rules to be complied with."

Bettman's image in Canada seems to have improved in the wake of the Thrashers sale to True North Sports and Entertainment at the end of May. In allowing that to happen, he started making good on a promise to try to return the NHL to cities that have lost a team.

He is currently in his 19th year as commissioner -- a job that gets busier with each passing season. As a result, there isn't any one particular area he feels warrants his attention.

"When you are involved in the day-to-day administration of a sports league, there are tens of thousands of things that go on in the course of a season that people never know about and shouldn't know about," said Bettman. "When the game is out there and people are enjoying our 1,230 regular-season games, they don't just happen (on their own)."

Team owners clearly recognize that. Bettman was reportedly paid in excess of US$7.5 million last season.

[powerplay2009]

Bettman's image in Canada seems to have improved in the wake of the Thrashers sale to True North Sports and Entertainment at the end of May. In allowing that to happen, he started making good on a promise to try to return the NHL to cities that have lost a team.

It hasn't improved in my mind. He just got what was coming to him since 96. Anybody else feel the same way?

[MIASUN]

Am I missing something here?

What's so complicated about the realignment?

Tell Detroit, you are sorry but since they are the biggest revenue generator in the Western Conference, you simply cannot move them for the good of the league. Also, they have been EXTREMELY successful in the West so they don't have a legitimate leg to stand on.

Next: Choose between Columbus and Nashville and simply swap one for Winnipeg.

To me, It's easiest to put Nashville in the Southeast division with the other non-traditional hockey markets and you give them a shot to ride the Habs, Leafs, Crosby and Ovy attendance trains. Simple.

Also, you put Winnipeg back where it belongs in a division with the Red Wings and Blackhawks.

Problem solved. Why is this becoming so complex and such a big deal?

It only has to become a big deal if the Coyotes are actually going to move to Quebec City, otherwise, this is a non-issue IMHO.

[Nine1One]

Am I missing something here?

What's so complicated about the realignment?

Tell Detroit, you are sorry but since they are the biggest revenue generator in the Western Conference, you simply cannot move them for the good of the league. Also, they have been EXTREMELY successful in the West so they don't have a legitimate leg to stand on.

Next: Choose between Columbus and Nashville and simply swap one for Winnipeg.

To me, It's easiest to put Nashville in the Southeast division with the other non-traditional hockey markets and you give them a shot to ride the Habs, Leafs, Crosby and Ovy attendance trains. Simple.

Also, you put Winnipeg back where it belongs in a division with the Red Wings and Blackhawks.

Problem solved. Why is this becoming so complex and such a big deal?

It only has to become a big deal if the Coyotes are actually going to move to Quebec City, otherwise, this is a non-issue IMHO.

Colombus move colombus. Eastern time zone. Fans are coming. Can't watch games at 10 o clock

[hatethosebruins]

I personally want Detroit in the east, but thats just my opinion

[Nine1One]

I personally want Detroit in the east, but thats just my opinion

me too, but think about it. The league wants colombus to work. But they constantly play really late games making it hard for fans or new fans to watch. It would benefit the league to move colombus.

[hatethosebruins]

me too, but think about it. The league wants colombus to work. But they constantly play really late games making it hard for fans or new fans to watch. It would benefit the league to move colombus.

I think everything would benefit the league. Nashville gets even more fans as they play Crosby and Ovechkin 3 times at home. Detroit gains several original 6 rivals by moving east and makes travel schedules easier. Columbus like you said gets earlier game times.

[powerplay2009]

Do you guys think realignment should be put on hold until we know what shakes down with both Dallas and Phoenix? If both teams move, one will probably go to Quebec City, and the other one god knows where. It doesn't make sense for the NHL to plan on something only to have it busted this spring/offseason. That being said, is it fair to teams like Winnipeg and the teams that play there 3 times a year from the Southeast to be put on hold and be stuck with the travel another year?

[grecohab]

As we all know due to the Winnipeg participation in the league, there is going to be a major or minor reconstruction at the divisions/conferences, next year. There is a lot of speculation through the post/threads about the 2011-2012 reconstruction. I think that the commitee ought to put great consideration in this matter. For starters i think that this is a great oppurtunity to reconsider some untouchables such as the number of the participants, the number of the played games, the reduce/economy on travelling, and new options/markets if a franchise falters.

There are 30 participants for now, though the ideal number should be 32. I am suggesting a two team expand. How can we reach number 32? By adding two franchises in high value markets. I vote for Quebec and Kansas City. What would you do if some franchises struggle down the road? There are always markets available for relocating in Canada and the USA,such as Toronto (region), Hamilton, Hartford, Thunder Bay, Houston, Seattle. Every sports using the 32 participants format faced huge success.(It is probably because 32/16/8/4/2).

There are 82 games per team played now in regular season, and i can't find any reason to reduce that number. My suggestion is to stay at that number or slightly increase. The athletes are genetically better than a decade ago so there is no matter on conditioning and fatigue. Of course i would be all in the reduce of regular season games in favor of a playoff expand.

OPTION A(32 participants)

East North: Montreal - Toronto - Ottawa - Quebec

East Central: Buffalo - Boston - Pittsburgh - Philadelphia

East Coastal: New York Islanders - New York Rangers - New Jersey Devils - Washington

East South: Tampa Bay - Florida - Carolina - Nashville

West North: Vancouver - Edmonton - Calgary - Winnipeg

West Central: Chicago - Detroit - St.Louis - Minnesota

West Coastal: Anaheim - Los Angeles - San Jose - Phoenix

West South: Dallas - Colorado - Kansas City - Columbus

Each team plays: 6 games against same division opponents (6x3=18), 4 games against same conference opponents (4x12=48) and 1 game against different conference opponents (1x16=16). This is a total of (18+48+16=82 games) and there should be no advance seeding for divisional winners. Seeding should be in advance of total points gained. The first 8 seeded teams makes the postseason.

OPTION B(32 participants)

Division 1: Montreal - Toronto - Ottawa - Quebec - Detroit - Buffalo - Boston - Pittsburgh

Division 2: Philadelphia - N.Y Islanders - N.Y Rangers - New Jersey - Washington - Carolina - Tampa Bay - Florida

Division 3: Chicago - Minnesota - Dallas - Nashville - Columbus - Colorado - St.Louis - Kansas City

Division 4: Vancouver - Edmonton - Calgary - Winnipeg - Anaheim - San Jose - Los Angeles - Phoenix.

Division 1,2 will compose the Eastern Conference and division 3,4 will compose the Western Conference. Each team plays: 4 games against same conference opponents (4x15=60) and 2 games against different conference opponents (2x16=32). This is a total of 92 games, 10 above the current plateau, but i think justice is obvious in this format more than any else. Seeding and postseason both as in Option A.

OPTION C (current, 30 participants)

NorthEast: Montreal - Toronto - Ottawa - Boston - Buffalo

Atlantic: Pittsburgh - Philadelphia - N.Y Islanders - N.Y Rangers - New Jersey

SouthEast: Washington - Tampa Bay - Florida - Carolina - Nashville

NorthWest: Vancouver - Calgary - Edmonton - Winnipeg - Minnesota

Central: Detroit - Chicago - St.Louis - Columbus - Colorado

Pacific: Anaheim - Los Angeles - San Jose - Phoenix - Dallas

Each team plays: 4 games against same division opponents (4x4=16), 4 games against same conference opponents (4x10=40) and 1 game against different conference opponents (1x15=15). This is a total of 71 games. In order to make regular season games far more interesting:

a. Use the playoffs format to solve the tie braker (no shootout), and play overtime until the GWG,(remember less games played in the season).

b. Have teams to carry their results to the postseason and make the playoffs winner (first team wins 7).

For example Montreal plays Boston 4 teams in regular season and they win the series 3-1. If the two teams meet again in the playoffs the begin the series by 3-1 and Montreal needs 4 wins to eliminate Boston and Boston needs 6 wins. In this case no regular season game is a day off, as you don't know which team you would meet at the postseason.

Thank you for reading...

[GreekHockeyCoach]

Very good read. However, it doesn't belong in the Habs General discussion. I'm moving it to Around the League.

[WinnipegJet]

Very good read. However, it doesn't belong in the Habs General discussion. I'm moving it to Around the League.

Also, merged with existing discussion on topic.

[WinnipegJet]

As we all know due to the Winnipeg participation in the league, there is going to be a major or minor reconstruction at the divisions/conferences, next year. There is a lot of speculation through the post/threads about the 2011-2012 reconstruction. I think that the commitee ought to put great consideration in this matter. For starters i think that this is a great oppurtunity to reconsider some untouchables such as the number of the participants, the number of the played games, the reduce/economy on travelling, and new options/markets if a franchise falters.

There are 30 participants for now, though the ideal number should be 32. I am suggesting a two team expand. How can we reach number 32? By adding two franchises in high value markets. I vote for Quebec and Kansas City. What would you do if some franchises struggle down the road? There are always markets available for relocating in Canada and the USA,such as Toronto (region), Hamilton, Hartford, Thunder Bay, Houston, Seattle. Every sports using the 32 participants format faced huge success.(It is probably because 32/16/8/4/2).

There are 82 games per team played now in regular season, and i can't find any reason to reduce that number. My suggestion is to stay at that number or slightly increase. The athletes are genetically better than a decade ago so there is no matter on conditioning and fatigue. Of course i would be all in the reduce of regular season games in favor of a playoff expand.

OPTION A(32 participants)

East North: Montreal - Toronto - Ottawa - Quebec

East Central: Buffalo - Boston - Pittsburgh - Philadelphia

East Coastal: New York Islanders - New York Rangers - New Jersey Devils - Washington

East South: Tampa Bay - Florida - Carolina - Nashville

West North: Vancouver - Edmonton - Calgary - Winnipeg

West Central: Chicago - Detroit - St.Louis - Minnesota

West Coastal: Anaheim - Los Angeles - San Jose - Phoenix

West South: Dallas - Colorado - Kansas City - Columbus

Each team plays: 6 games against same division opponents (6x3=18), 4 games against same conference opponents (4x12=48) and 1 game against different conference opponents (1x16=16). This is a total of (18+48+16=82 games) and there should be no advance seeding for divisional winners. Seeding should be in advance of total points gained. The first 8 seeded teams makes the postseason.

OPTION B(32 participants)

Division 1: Montreal - Toronto - Ottawa - Quebec - Detroit - Buffalo - Boston - Pittsburgh

Division 2: Philadelphia - N.Y Islanders - N.Y Rangers - New Jersey - Washington - Carolina - Tampa Bay - Florida

Division 3: Chicago - Minnesota - Dallas - Nashville - Columbus - Colorado - St.Louis - Kansas City

Division 4: Vancouver - Edmonton - Calgary - Winnipeg - Anaheim - San Jose - Los Angeles - Phoenix.

Division 1,2 will compose the Eastern Conference and division 3,4 will compose the Western Conference. Each team plays: 4 games against same conference opponents (4x15=60) and 2 games against different conference opponents (2x16=32). This is a total of 92 games, 10 above the current plateau, but i think justice is obvious in this format more than any else. Seeding and postseason both as in Option A.

OPTION C (current, 30 participants)

NorthEast: Montreal - Toronto - Ottawa - Boston - Buffalo

Atlantic: Pittsburgh - Philadelphia - N.Y Islanders - N.Y Rangers - New Jersey

SouthEast: Washington - Tampa Bay - Florida - Carolina - Nashville

NorthWest: Vancouver - Calgary - Edmonton - Winnipeg - Minnesota

Central: Detroit - Chicago - St.Louis - Columbus - Colorado

Pacific: Anaheim - Los Angeles - San Jose - Phoenix - Dallas

Each team plays: 4 games against same division opponents (4x4=16), 4 games against same conference opponents (4x10=40) and 1 game against different conference opponents (1x15=15). This is a total of 71 games. In order to make regular season games far more interesting:

a. Use the playoffs format to solve the tie braker (no shootout), and play overtime until the GWG,(remember less games played in the season).

b. Have teams to carry their results to the postseason and make the playoffs winner (first team wins 7).

For example Montreal plays Boston 4 teams in regular season and they win the series 3-1. If the two teams meet again in the playoffs the begin the series by 3-1 and Montreal needs 4 wins to eliminate Boston and Boston needs 6 wins. In this case no regular season game is a day off, as you don't know which team you would meet at the postseason.

Thank you for reading...

Nice post.

As much as I would be fun to see, I don't think having all the Canadian teams in the western conference in the same division will work, and this is mainly due to the time zone factor. Winnipeg and Vancouver are two time zones apart, which not only creates for a lot of travel distance, but a lot of jet lag.

Option B is pretty creative but seems like an absolute killer on travel.

The East definitely seems like the easier conference to organize as the vast majority of teams would be in the same time zone.

[wmarcello]

Seems like it's now down to 2 options.

Option 1 is an easy Winnipeg for Columbus some Central team swap.

Option 2 is a completely reworked 4-conference alignment.

The above photo is taken from this article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Latest-NHL-radical-realignment-plan-breaks-up-So?urn=nhl-wp18932

And, for those who want a visual, I've created a color-coded map that represents the 4 new conferences.

http://g.co/maps/csvuj

[hatethosebruins]

Seems like it's now down to 2 options.

Option 1 is an easy Winnipeg for Columbus some Central team swap.

Option 2 is a completely reworked 4-conference alignment.

The above photo is taken from this article:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Latest-NHL-radical-realignment-plan-breaks-up-So?urn=nhl-wp18932

And, for those who want a visual, I've created a color-coded map that represents the 4 new conferences.

http://g.co/maps/csvuj

Nice map

Gaining florida and tampa is strange, id rather take both pennsylvanias or both new yorks

[habs_93]

That's really, really dumb. We get saddled with Florida and Tampa. Literally every other division makes sense, except maybe the one with Winnipeg in it. Winnipeg is the only Canadian team in its division (I'm sure CBC will love that)? The only advantage is being a in 7-team division. Dumb.

I think the whole four-division idea is bad to begin with, but if they're dead set on it, why not either be bold and do something really interesting, or at least be logical about it? Someone's division-based rivalries are going to be broken up, and people will have to deal with it. This makes a lot more sense, IMO:

Division 1

Montreal

Toronto

Ottawa

Boston

Buffalo

Detroit

Islanders

Division 2

Pittsburgh

Philadelphia

Rangers

New Jersey

Washington

Carolina

Tampa

Florida

Division 3

Vancouver

Edmonton

Calgary

Winnipeg

San Jose

Los Angeles

Anaheim

Phoenix

Division 4

Minnesota

Colorado

Chicago

Columbus

Dallas

St. Louis

Nashville

The only problem with that is that it turns into a gigantic mess if Phoenix goes to Quebec.

[wmarcello]

Nice map

Gaining florida and tampa is strange, id rather take both pennsylvanias or both new yorks

Some of the thoughts going around is that the weird Florida/Tampa situation might have a bit to do with keeping rivalries together, but also balancing out the cash. Obviously teams like the Habs, Leafs, and Bruins are big draws, and any teams that share their conference will have a great opportunity to increase hockey interest in their city and sell more tickets. Last I heard Tampa does well for attendance, though I'm not sure how that translates to dollars. I'm also not sure about Florida's numbers.

[Nine1One]

whats dumb about having the floridas? Means i get to see more games down here. Further more if they are as bad as you all claim, more wins. Further more I wouldn't want to break up rangers islanders devils and the penn teams they have a bunch of individual rivalries between them.

[wmarcello]

Also, I quickly skimmed the thread and didn't see this linked anywhere. It's a very lengthy blog post by Bob McKenzie discussing all the upsides and downsides to the many realignment options that were flying around back in October. The options as of today are a little more focused, but Bob does discuss a very similar plan G in his post that is still quite relevant.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=377916

[hatethosebruins]

Also, I quickly skimmed the thread and didn't see this linked anywhere. It's a very lengthy blog post by Bob McKenzie discussing all the upsides and downsides to the many realignment options that were flying around back in October. The options as of today are a little more focused, but Bob does discuss a very similar plan G in his post that is still quite relevant.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=377916

headache but I like G the best