Mathieu Darche

[weepingminotaur]

I just hope this guy doesn't go off and single handedly ruin the tank.

Uhhh, wrong thread much?

It'd definitely a concern, especially if he and Carey heat up at the same time.

Bang on, guys, and I was incredibly wrong in my comments last November. All it takes is Darche on a white-hot scoring spree and Carey making the big stops and we've blown our chance at a top-five pick!1!1!1!

[Guest]

It's tough to blame Darche for the situation he's been put in. Definitely a fish out of water the way he's being used of late. There's a reason he's making the modest NHL salary he's getting. Somebody needs to point that fact out to management.

[BeanCountingHab]

It's tough to blame Darche for the situation he's been put in. Definitely a fish out of water the way he's being used of late. There's a reason he's making the modest NHL salary he's getting. Somebody needs to point that fact out to management.

Absolutely. The running joke is not meant as slight against Darche (who I actually find very likeable), it's just poking fun at management and the coaching staff.

[BigTed3]

Absolutely. The running joke is not meant as slight against Darche (who I actually find very likeable), it's just poking fun at management and the coaching staff.

It's odd because JM used Moen as if he was a top 6 player and RC has acted in a similar fashion with Darche and Blunden. On the one hand, it's easy to point out as an outsider that the coach is pulling a real head-scratcher and I still believe that after trying it for a few games and seeing it hasn't worked that the coach needs to move those guys back down the line-up. That said, the bigger question is why two different coaches have felt the need to play marginal 4th line guys in 2nd line roles. The answer, more this year than last, is that the guys who are supposed to be performing well have not, and as such, the coaches are doing what they perceive to be a way to shake up the team and reward some of the hard-working pluggers. In the short-term, I have no problem with this as a tool to get the better players going, but it has to be a short-term thing and that's one problem both JM and RC failed to recognize. They became attached to having their worker bees play more because they were getting effort... but not results. If a team is going to have success, it needs to have its best players playing well, especially in a cap-based salary structure. Poor Darche has become the epitome of ice time mismanagement, but the bigger issue is that the star players have been brutal, which is why the situation was never reversed.

[weepingminotaur]

It's odd because JM used Moen as if he was a top 6 player and RC has acted in a similar fashion with Darche and Blunden. On the one hand, it's easy to point out as an outsider that the coach is pulling a real head-scratcher and I still believe that after trying it for a few games and seeing it hasn't worked that the coach needs to move those guys back down the line-up. That said, the bigger question is why two different coaches have felt the need to play marginal 4th line guys in 2nd line roles. The answer, more this year than last, is that the guys who are supposed to be performing well have not, and as such, the coaches are doing what they perceive to be a way to shake up the team and reward some of the hard-working pluggers. In the short-term, I have no problem with this as a tool to get the better players going, but it has to be a short-term thing and that's one problem both JM and RC failed to recognize. They became attached to having their worker bees play more because they were getting effort... but not results. If a team is going to have success, it needs to have its best players playing well, especially in a cap-based salary structure. Poor Darche has become the epitome of ice time mismanagement, but the bigger issue is that the star players have been brutal, which is why the situation was never reversed.

A few differences between Moen and Darche as they've been used.

Moen is a better player than Darche, period. He's a third-line forward, not a fringe fourth-line AHL journeyman. He was part of a shutdown line in Anaheim during their Cup run.

Martin had no choice but to use Moen in a top-six role for long stretches because we had so many injuries up front. Yes, he stubbornly and wrongly used Travis in that capacity even when other forwards were healthy, but our top nine wasn't as deep last year as it is this year. He didn't have Cole, Eller was still new to the NHL, and Pacioretty had yet to break out.

[BigTed3]

A few differences between Moen and Darche as they've been used.

Moen is a better player than Darche, period. He's a third-line forward, not a fringe fourth-line AHL journeyman. He was part of a shutdown line in Anaheim during their Cup run.

Martin had no choice but to use Moen in a top-six role for long stretches because we had so many injuries up front. Yes, he stubbornly and wrongly used Travis in that capacity even when other forwards were healthy, but our top nine wasn't as deep last year as it is this year. He didn't have Cole, Eller was still new to the NHL, and Pacioretty had yet to break out.

Moen was a decent shutdown line guy, but that |cup win was 5 years ago. He honestly did not do enough in his first two seasons here to convince me he's worth 1.8-2.2M a season, which is what I think it'll take to keep him. I'd rather have Darche at 600k. Darche, as you said, is not as adept defensively, but I think he has better hands than Moen and he's actually done quite well on the PK this season. Darche had a pretty bad start to the year, but since being given more of a role, he's done better. I fully agree that he shouldn't be playing more than 10-12 minutes a game, but I don't think Moen and Darche are that far apart.

As far as depth goes, yes, it's better this year, but there were other options last year that JM overlooked. He had Cammalleri, who RC either doesn't have (or didn't have playing with any effort). He had Pouliot, who didn't pan out, but who was always overlooked when it came to moving guys into the top 6. He had Halpern and Lapierre, who RC doesn't have. I'm not arguing that those guys match up to Cole, Pacman and Eller, but JM did have some other options and he always favored Moen even when playing Moen clearly didn't work out. My point is basically that each coach had their favorite worker bee and stuck with that player even when the numbers and gameplay suggested that wasn't the right move.

[weepingminotaur]

Moen was a decent shutdown line guy, but that |cup win was 5 years ago. He honestly did not do enough in his first two seasons here to convince me he's worth 1.8-2.2M a season, which is what I think it'll take to keep him. I'd rather have Darche at 600k. Darche, as you said, is not as adept defensively, but I think he has better hands than Moen and he's actually done quite well on the PK this season. Darche had a pretty bad start to the year, but since being given more of a role, he's done better. I fully agree that he shouldn't be playing more than 10-12 minutes a game, but I don't think Moen and Darche are that far apart.

Darche has better hands than Moen? How you do figure? Seriously, Darche was a career AHLer until a year and a half ago. Moen has played in the NHL for years. I'm not saying Moen is worth his contract. I'm saying he's a better player than Darche in every phase of the game, including the penalty kill, which makes it more understandable that a coach would use him in a top-six capacity, even if we disagree with the decision.

As far as depth goes, yes, it's better this year, but there were other options last year that JM overlooked. He had Cammalleri, who RC either doesn't have (or didn't have playing with any effort). He had Pouliot, who didn't pan out, but who was always overlooked when it came to moving guys into the top 6. He had Halpern and Lapierre, who RC doesn't have. I'm not arguing that those guys match up to Cole, Pacman and Eller, but JM did have some other options and he always favored Moen even when playing Moen clearly didn't work out. My point is basically that each coach had their favorite worker bee and stuck with that player even when the numbers and gameplay suggested that wasn't the right move.

Martin never kicked Cammalleri out of the top six. Pouliot was a useless vortex of suck in a top-six role, just dead weight. He had that one good run with Gomez and Gionta when we first acquired him, and that was it. He had his chances, but did nothing except play a weak east-west game and turn the puck over. Halpern and Lapierre aren't top-six forwards either. Martin didn't have as many option as RC. I'm not saying he was right to play Moen as much as he did, but there were some mitigating factors.

[BigTed3]

Darche has better hands than Moen? How you do figure? Seriously, Darche was a career AHLer until a year and a half ago. Moen has played in the NHL for years. I'm not saying Moen is worth his contract. I'm saying he's a better player than Darche in every phase of the game, including the penalty kill, which makes it more understandable that a coach would use him in a top-six capacity, even if we disagree with the decision.

I'm not disagreeing that Moen is the better player. But I don't see him as being so valuable that he's worth spending 1M extra to upgrade on Darche. To me, Darche was a pleasant surprise last season, had an awful start this year, but has shown some value in the past two months. Moen has hands of stone and has never done anything with his scoring chances outside of this season. Darche is by no means offensively-gifted, but he seems to do more with the quality chances he gets than Moen, who always seems to be in good position but often whiffs or misses the net, stats that aren't reflected in his anomalous shooting % this season. Bottom line for me is that I don't see the need for either guy here in the long run, Moen because his cap hit exceeds what he's worth and Darche because he's easily replaceable with someone younger. But as far as offensive talent goes and whether either should be in the top 6, I don't see much of a difference there.

Martin never kicked Cammalleri out of the top six. Pouliot was a useless vortex of suck in a top-six role, just dead weight. He had that one good run with Gomez and Gionta when we first acquired him, and that was it. He had his chances, but did nothing except play a weak east-west game and turn the puck over. Halpern and Lapierre aren't top-six forwards either. Martin didn't have as many option as RC. I'm not saying he was right to play Moen as much as he did, but there were some mitigating factors.

I never said JM kicked Cammy out of the top 6, only pointing out that if you're including Cole in RC's assets that it's only fair to say JM benefited from a better Cammy his 1st two years here. Pouliot, as I said, didn't pan out, but he did show some flashes of skill. As you said, he had a decent stretch when he first came here and he did some good things on the 3rd line last season. He also had his share of bad games, but I wouldn't say he had a fair shake of a 15-20 game opportunity on the second line last season. You yourself have talked about how "hard work" isn't a substitute for skill and while I won't put Pouliot up in the same category as Pleks and Gio, he certainly deserved more of an opportunity in the top 6 than Moen (the "worker") got. The basic point is not that JM had a ton of other options, but he did have guys who could have done as well as Moen did and yet he stuck with Moen, even though he had no success in a 2nd line role.

[Kindred]

It's tough to blame Darche for the situation he's been put in. Definitely a fish out of water the way he's being used of late. There's a reason he's making the modest NHL salary he's getting. Somebody needs to point that fact out to management.

Giving big minutes to 3rd/4th liners is a canadiens tradition we all hold very dear!

[jennifer_rocket]

Giving big minutes to 3rd/4th liners is a canadiens tradition we all hold very dear!

I miss the days of Mathieu Dandenault.

[hatethosebruins]

I miss the days of Mathieu Dandenault.

I actually miss that guy.

Then again back then I rarely watched the habs and played alot of NHL 06/07 so....

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

I like Darche's dedication an effort... but I do believe his role on the team has been exaggerated some. A great spare part still, but that's about all IMO.

[hatethosebruins]

Mathieu Mathieu where for art thou!

[ColRouleBleu]

Mathieu Mathieu where for art thou!

oh enough already. aren't the best jokes usually the shortest ones?

[hatethosebruins]

oh enough already. aren't the best jokes usually the shortest ones?

Im serious....whats he hurt with

Can't I add some culture to my questions

[ColRouleBleu]

Team just says 'upper body' .... left the game vs Dallas because of dizziness

[hatethosebruins]

Team just says 'upper body' .... left the game vs Dallas because of dizziness

So sounds like vertigo...or he went on a roller coaster too many times

[ColRouleBleu]

i sorta half recall a play during that game that looked like a roller coaster

[roy_133]

oh enough already. aren't the best jokes usually the shortest ones?

No, the best jokes are usually the ones you drag on so long they get old and then become so old they become funny all over again.

[ColRouleBleu]

No, the best jokes are usually the ones you drag on so long they get old and then become so old they become funny all over again.

If Darche wasn't a Hab player (he still is last I checked) then I might agree

[fansince1975]

If Darche has a low cap hit then re-sign him to the press box and 4th line. Otherwise give his roster spot to a rookie. I thought Darche played good last season. I thought Darche played poorly in the first 30 games this season. But up until the injury Darche was a solid player and good on the PK. Not a 2nd or 3rd line player but 4th line type of player that could work well with White on the 4th line or sit in the press box for replacing injuried player which will happen sooner than later given how many injuries Montreal has experienced over the past 5 years.

[kalevine]

vertigo tends to be a problem in the aged.

But seriously, who would have thought they could take 2 in a row without him?

[ChiefJunior]

If Darche has a low cap hit then re-sign him to the press box and 4th line. Otherwise give his roster spot to a rookie. I thought Darche played good last season. I thought Darche played poorly in the first 30 games this season. But up until the injury Darche was a solid player and good on the PK. Not a 2nd or 3rd line player but 4th line type of player that could work well with White on the 4th line or sit in the press box for replacing injuried player which will happen sooner than later given how many injuries Montreal has experienced over the past 5 years.

I hope they give him his walking papers.

[MIASUN]

Darchey don't teach Ryan White or Travis Moen how to speak French. You'll be out of a job.

[ColRouleBleu]

Darche hired by RDS as a panelist during the playoffs. He's on L'Anti-Chambre right now