jedimaas Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 According to HIO, they mentioned the amount that was offered, but not the length of the contract. Just speculation, but I feel he's also looking for a long term contract. Habs have been handing out these one year deals to all their returning players. Minus Markov, he's the only one who was offered more than one season. It's hard to guesstimate what arbitration will offer him (specially with his season being cut short), but I think you may be right. I'm thinking around 2.25-2.5 per season. We should find out soon enough. I also agree its probably a term thing. Gauthier seems to know 'value' of a player in terms of yearly contract but when a guy misses most of the season due to a knee injury/surgery, its tough to say "ok, here's a 5 year deal." On the flip side you'd likely get him for less per year than a 1 year deal and then another new contract. Hopefully they can get it done as i do believe both sides want it to work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeanCountingHab Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Right that's why I'm wondering why he filed. It's just about protecting himself; that's why basically every other RFA with arbitration rights who doesn't have a deal done by the deadline files. Without filing, the only salary he could guarantee himself fro the Habs would be the QO. However we think he would do if it came down to an arbitration decision, I think we can all agree it would be more than the $1.3 currently on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptWelly Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 I wonder... Arbitration. I can't really see it working in his favor. What did he have last season, six or seven points? I mean, what's his argument? "I block shots." Or, "I have heart." IMO, Gorges electing arbitration could be good for the Habs. If they judge by what he has brought to his team and his over all play and compare him to other signings, like Detroit just signing the "pilon" (taken directly from thier fan page) for 3+mil. I think Georges will get a lot more in arbitration. He is young plays hard always blocks a ton of shots. He is a shut down d-man. He doesn't put up a lot of points but niether does Gill. If he was 6-4 235 and played the exact same game everyone would want to pay him big. He is only going to get better and would be a top 4 any where else. Would he be on another teams power play no, but thats not his specialty. I really think if they don't come to terms it will go in his direction and really should . I would be happy with 2.5- 3 a year for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikz_77 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Okay the habs offered Gorges 1.3 million for a year? Wow that is low. That was the same as last years. If money isnt a factor for Gorges, then I dont understand why doesn't PG give him 3-5 years? I think that would be worth it. Heck even if they pay him 1.5 -2.25 million. Sounds decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewfoundlandHab Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Okay the habs offered Gorges 1.3 million for a year? Wow that is low. That was the same as last years. If money isnt a factor for Gorges, then I dont understand why doesn't PG give him 3-5 years? I think that would be worth it. Heck even if they pay him 1.5 -2.25 million. Sounds decent. Wasn't the 1.3M offer just the QO? In which case the offer was strictly to keep his rights with no intention for him to accept it. I honestly would be fine with paying 2-2.5 for JG. We had Hal Gill on our top pairing for a while last season and there's no way Gill is better suited for the top 4 than Gorges. IMO Josh is an alright number 4 guy and a good shutdown guy and 2-2,5 for that is really not that bad especially with the additional cap space this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepingminotaur Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 PG, no longer than three years, please. I can't believe all this fooferah over a guy who isn't a shutdown d-man and whose career point high was a whopping 23 points back in 2008-09. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 PG, no longer than three years, please. I can't believe all this fooferah over a guy who isn't a shutdown d-man and whose career point high was a whopping 23 points back in 2008-09. The term doesn't bother me too much. Gorges will be a tradable commodity, so I don't think it'll be an issue to have to move him if we have to. I'm just hoping he keeps the cap hit down and doesn't go out giving him a NTC. If it's 4-5 years, I'll live with that so long as the latter two conditions are met. The problem for us right now is that because PG didn't go out and sign another D man, we essentially have no back-up plan if Gorges isn't retained. It's bad enough having Gorges and Gill both in the top 4, but to have to insert Spacek back there instead of Gorges would be even worse. I'm sure Josh and his agent know this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikz_77 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Don't think it is worth keeping him for more than 2-2.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheresthepuck Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Can't wait to see this contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepingminotaur Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 The term doesn't bother me too much. Gorges will be a tradable commodity, so I don't think it'll be an issue to have to move him if we have to. I'm just hoping he keeps the cap hit down and doesn't go out giving him a NTC. If it's 4-5 years, I'll live with that so long as the latter two conditions are met. No bottom-three d-man should be signed to a four-year contract, particularly not one like Gorges who fills no particular niche. Even if the cap hit is reasonable, you never want to have that kind of term to deal with over a prolonged period for a guy who is not a key component of your team. I also don't think Gorges would fetch as much on the trade market as some here think. We like him, he's a good guy, and we have sentimental attachment, but other GMs are going to notice his lack of offensive production, lack of size, and lack of puck-moving skill. The problem for us right now is that because PG didn't go out and sign another D man, we essentially have no back-up plan if Gorges isn't retained. It's bad enough having Gorges and Gill both in the top 4, but to have to insert Spacek back there instead of Gorges would be even worse. I'm sure Josh and his agent know this too. Agreed on this point. PG has put us in a tight position with regard to our defense. Until and unless we shore up that top-four via trade or UFA signing, Gorges has leverage on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Agreed on this point. PG has put us in a tight position with regard to our defense. Until and unless we shore up that top-four via trade or UFA signing, Gorges has leverage on us. This is a valid point. Unless we sign another D-man that pushes Josh down the depth chart very soon,,,,he remains an absolute MUST sign. It's not a position of strength to negotiate with, if your PG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeanCountingHab Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 His leverage is still limitted by arbitration though, no? I think in a worst case scenario (if it comes down to that) we're looking at 1 year at say $2.5M which the team can easily handle. So if JG's agent really wants to play hardball, we can just say "ok, arbitration it is." and live with the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_rocket Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 This is a valid point. Unless we sign another D-man that pushes Josh down the depth chart very soon,,,,he remains an absolute MUST sign. It's not a position of strength to negotiate with, if your PG. Well, PG is in a position of strength considering Josh can no longer receive an offer sheet and Josh is a RFA. Sure, he's headed down the arbitration route, but I don't think he's award is going to be bad for the team. Even if we end up accepting Josh on a one or two year deal at $2-$3 million, it's not going to hurt the club long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 His leverage is still limitted by arbitration though, no? I think in a worst case scenario (if it comes down to that) we're looking at 1 year at say $2.5M which the team can easily handle. So if JG's agent really wants to play hardball, we can just say "ok, arbitration it is." and live with the decision. It is limited, however it's doubtful PG wants it to get that far if he deems Josh to be an important future piece of the team. You dont want to put yourself in a position of having to downplay a players worth through arbitration and then expect some loyalty down the road. Now if we had other options already signed,,,the pressure then shifts to Josh getting a deal done closer to PG's terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_133 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 It is limited, however it's doubtful PG wants it to get that far if he deems Josh to be an important future piece of the team. You dont want to put yourself in a position of having to downplay a players worth through arbitration and then expect some loyalty down the road. Now if we had other options already signed,,,the pressure then shifts to Josh getting a deal done closer to PG's terms. It's not ideal to go the arbitration route but if Gorges is trying to overplay his hand believing PG backed himself into a corner and need to sign him, arbitration will bring some finality to the situation and they won't factor our neediness for a DMan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddienmike Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Apparently Gorges agent has not had time to talk to PG because he has been so busy,he has free agents that he has to get sorted first,he knows that they will get Gorges contract sorted,so he is not worried. GO HABS GO :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 His arbitration day will be July 28th as per Hockey I/O. Lots of time to get a deal done before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Bah Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 His arbitration day will be July 28th as per Hockey I/O. Lots of time to get a deal done before then. Josh most certainly is what could be called a glue guy for the Habs defence,we definitely need his defensive specialties on our defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhab Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Josh most certainly is what could be called a glue guy for the Habs defence,we definitely need his defensive specialties on our defence. I think his worth is slightly mis-judged but a hard worker Josh is no doubt and he has a hungry drive for winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
31Careyprice Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 I dislike how everyone over rate's Gorges, he is heat and soul type guy but he simply isn't big or good enough. I would offer him a 1 year 1.85 million anything more, he can leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicalhab Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 I dislike how everyone over rate's Gorges, he is heat and soul type guy but he simply isn't big or good enough. I would offer him a 1 year 1.85 million anything more, he can leave. Thats a fair price I'd agree considering he doesn't bring much offensive upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Thats a fair price I'd agree considering he doesn't bring much offensive upside. I would think that's in the ball park if it ends up being a 1 year deal. Multy year (buying some of his UFA years) will obviously be more IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff33 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 i think gorges is a much better puck mover and skater than he gets credit for i dont know offhand but if someone looks it up i think there is a definite upward movement in his points year by year. anyway i try not to be biased because i do personally like the guy and what he does, but going on the article i read by arpon basu, other comparable dmen have gotten contracts in the 2.5 mil range and i can live with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepingminotaur Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I dislike how everyone over rate's Gorges, he is heat and soul type guy but he simply isn't big or good enough. I would offer him a 1 year 1.85 million anything more, he can leave. I wouldn't mind him on a two-year deal, but nothing beyond that and certainly nothing at or above $2 million. He is not a top-line center or winger. He is not a top-four defenseman. He generates no offense, but isn't a shutdown man. He's not the goalie. Josh Gorges is not a critical component of this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I wouldn't mind him on a two-year deal, but nothing beyond that and certainly nothing at or above $2 million. He is not a top-line center or winger. He is not a top-four defenseman. He generates no offense, but isn't a shutdown man. He's not the goalie. Josh Gorges is not a critical component of this team. I would agree with all of this. I know there are some who believe that he will be "much better" this year now that he has had his ACL properly repaired (been playing on a torn one for 10 years) but IF that is the case, then better to do a 1 year deal at a fair value based on his time in the NHL and if he somehow miraculously becomes a #3-4 defensman, re-up him for $3m a year long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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