Jaroslav Spacek

[ColRouleBleu]

#6 Jaroslav Spacek

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QUOTE LIBRARY

«I don't know if my role will change next year, il will depend on the type of player who will be added. But one thing is certain, I would like to bring more than I did this year. I'm diapponted with my season and I want to adjust certain things during summer.» - Jaroslav Spacek - translated from La Presse April 28, 2011

From the 2010-2011 thread:

Despite playing ugly minutes, Spacek leads the Montreal blue-line in plus/minus (plus-6) and sits right behind Andrei Markov in terms of his impact on the Canadiens’ shot rate. He’s being asked to be a shutdown defenceman, and that means he isn’t going to put up offence. Bottom line: Spacek’s doing a fine job in a difficult role. - Blogs.TheScore.com, January 18 2010

[maddienmike]

Spacek hope this season you get to play

In the right position,it's the only way

For you to give the best you have got

Many do not appreciate,it's a lot

So lets hope that this will be

Your best season in the C

GO SPACEK GO :D

[Noob616]

I for one, am excited to see another season of Spacek in those "get to know your canadiens" videos

[ColRouleBleu]

I for one, am excited to see another season of Spacek in those "get to know your canadiens" videos

There you go, there's always positive somewhere, it's only a matter of looking for it

[musicalhab]

Don't understand all the complaints. Top four defenseman is probably out of the question if we wanna be a top seed in the east ... but considering his positive plus minus statistics since donning the Canadians uniform (+18 over the last two seasons) there is no reason to be to frightened at the prospect of this puck moving czech logging some minutes during the upcoming season.

Even more impressive.... since the lockout , his +/- is +58, pretty good for the fast paced post lockout NHL. He accumulated these stats playing for the blackhawks , oilers, sabres and habs, (of course).

[jedimaas]

Don't understand all the complaints. Top four defenseman is probably out of the question if we wanna be a top seed in the east ... but considering his positive plus minus statistics since donning the Canadians uniform (+18 over the last two seasons) there is no reason to be to frightened at the prospect of this puck moving czech logging some minutes during the upcoming season.

Even more impressive.... since the lockout , his +/- is +58, pretty good for the fast paced post lockout NHL. He accumulated these stats playing for the blackhawks , oilers, sabres and habs, (of course).

I do also agree that Spacek is not anywhere near as bad as people make out. He's this year's whipping boy - we always have one - based on his contract. Gomez is the obvious choice, but people still look at him & say that with a bounce back season, he's still one of the top 2 centres on this team. Spacek, on the other hand, is easily 5th or even 6th on the depth chart, so for some reason his contract is the anchor around our necks that will sink us.

Its unfortunate that we do have good #4-7 depth because it makes Jaro's contract look bad, but it isnt even close to a 'bad contract' if you look around the league. Its also not like he's an unservicable defensman. He's no #7 brisebois or something - this is the guy who almost single-handedly threw ovechkin off his game for 4 games in round 1 of the playoffs 2 years ago. He does have value, he just needs his icetime limited, which obviously is somewhat incongruous in connection with his salary, but such is life.

[BeanCountingHab]

It's funny, because outside of the PK, he's actually a lot more useful and versatile than Gill IMO who is generally well liked by the fan base.

[jennifer_rocket]

It's funny, because outside of the PK, he's actually a lot more useful and versatile than Gill IMO who is generally well liked by the fan base.

I suppose so. Gill is pretty one-dimensional, so it's not too difficult to be more versatile than him. Spacek, IMO, is also not very versatile at this point in his career. He's a better 5-on-5 player than Gill, IMO, but probably a worse penalty killer. Neither one belong on the powerplay, if you ask me.

[BigTed3]

It's funny, because outside of the PK, he's actually a lot more useful and versatile than Gill IMO who is generally well liked by the fan base.

I know we've gone over this before, but to compare Gill and Spacek:

- Offensively, Spacek has a much better skill-set. BUT he has been extremely ineffective on the PP in the two years he's been here. Spacek's break-outs are better than Gill's.

- Defensively, Spacek has had stretches where he's been solid. He's also had fairly long stretches of being terrible though, where he's been our worst defenceman and fallen on his butt and given the puck away multiple times. Gill lacks foot-speed but he plays a much more simple game. He doesn't make as many bad pinches as Spacek, but when he does, it is near impossible for him to make it back. Gill does make up for this by being instrumental to the success of the PK.

- Salary-wise, Spacek's cap hit is almost twice as much as Gill's (3.8M vs. 2.2M)

- Intangibles: Gill is noted by his teammates to be a leader in the room. Spacek seems to be well-liked by his teammates too. Neither seems to be any sort of trouble off the ice. Gill has won a Cup. Gill has developed chemistry partnering two of the returning D men (Subban and Gorges). Spacek really doesn't have any clear-cut chemistry as a partner to any of the returning D.

Taking the above into account, Gill is simply put a better fit here than Spacek and that at a better price. If Spacek were contributing to the PP, his value would be higher, but since he failed in this respect, his value in other areas of the game is average at best. If he were making 1.5M as a 6th D man, I could live with it, but for the contract, you expect more from a veteran. I also think the fact that Gill has experience partnering Subban and Gorges gives JM more confidence using him up and down the line-up, in addition to the fact that Gill has actually held up pretty well throughout the season, whereas Spacek has shown signs of fatigue down the stretch in the past. I would personally have still taken Hamrlik back over Gill, but between Gill and Spacek, there's no question to me that Gill is better value.

[weepingminotaur]

I'm not sure how useful it is to compare Spacek and Gill without factoring in their zone starts and the roles each player has been asked to play (and that's not even taking into account Spacek being forced to play the right side for much of the past two years). This isn't an argument that Spacek's contract isn't a bad one, BTW -- because I think we can all agree it isn't great.

[BeanCountingHab]

I know we've gone over this before, but to compare Gill and Spacek:

- Offensively, Spacek has a much better skill-set. BUT he has been extremely ineffective on the PP in the two years he's been here. Spacek's break-outs are better than Gill's.

- Defensively, Spacek has had stretches where he's been solid. He's also had fairly long stretches of being terrible though, where he's been our worst defenceman and fallen on his butt and given the puck away multiple times. Gill lacks foot-speed but he plays a much more simple game. He doesn't make as many bad pinches as Spacek, but when he does, it is near impossible for him to make it back. Gill does make up for this by being instrumental to the success of the PK.

- Salary-wise, Spacek's cap hit is almost twice as much as Gill's (3.8M vs. 2.2M)

- Intangibles: Gill is noted by his teammates to be a leader in the room. Spacek seems to be well-liked by his teammates too. Neither seems to be any sort of trouble off the ice. Gill has won a Cup. Gill has developed chemistry partnering two of the returning D men (Subban and Gorges). Spacek really doesn't have any clear-cut chemistry as a partner to any of the returning D.

Taking the above into account, Gill is simply put a better fit here than Spacek and that at a better price. If Spacek were contributing to the PP, his value would be higher, but since he failed in this respect, his value in other areas of the game is average at best. If he were making 1.5M as a 6th D man, I could live with it, but for the contract, you expect more from a veteran. I also think the fact that Gill has experience partnering Subban and Gorges gives JM more confidence using him up and down the line-up, in addition to the fact that Gill has actually held up pretty well throughout the season, whereas Spacek has shown signs of fatigue down the stretch in the past. I would personally have still taken Hamrlik back over Gill, but between Gill and Spacek, there's no question to me that Gill is better value.

The first 25 games or so last year he was absolutely awful, our worst defenseman on quite a few nights. He started to play much better after that but I think the way he started the year left a bad taste in most of our mouths for the rest of the year (mine included).

I don't know what caused him to not appear ready to start the season, but if he can come prepared and not use the first 1/3 of the season as an extended training camp, I think we'll see a big difference and be pleasantly surprised. I thought in his first year with the Habs he was put in a very difficult situation and did pretty well. If he gets back to that level of play (and that really shouldn't be impossible) I'll be pretty happy.

[BigTed3]

The first 25 games or so last year he was absolutely awful, our worst defenseman on quite a few nights. He started to play much better after that but I think the way he started the year left a bad taste in most of our mouths for the rest of the year (mine included).

I don't know what caused him to not appear ready to start the season, but if he can come prepared and not use the first 1/3 of the season as an extended training camp, I think we'll see a big difference and be pleasantly surprised. I thought in his first year with the Habs he was put in a very difficult situation and did pretty well. If he gets back to that level of play (and that really shouldn't be impossible) I'll be pretty happy.

If we go back two seasons ago, Spacek started out ok but he clearly wore down as the season went on. This was partly because he was over-used after Markov's injury, but it was clear he couldn't be a top 4 D man for an entire season. After the Olympic break, he was rejuvenated, but it didn't last long... he went through another period of lethargy, but then turned it up again in the playoffs.

In his second season, Spacek had a miserable start, both in the pre-season and as you said, in the first 25 games of the regular season. He improved a bit thereafter, but then suffered an injury. When he came back, he played 2-3 decent games and then went on to have a fairly poor post-season.

I agree that part of his woes can be blamed on playing off-wing, but even when he was playing the left side last year, he made too many bad decisions, especially on late pinch-ins. As I said, if he's making less money then I'm ok with him rotating in and out of the 6th and 7th spots with Weber. But from what I've seen from him in his first two seasons, Gill is the more serviceable of the two, both in terms of endurance over the course of a season and in terms of being able to fill a specific role/need with the team.

[kalevine]

This past playoff Spacek was awful. In 2010 playoffs he was a positive. I hope he regains some form and plays minutes we all can love with

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

I do also agree that Spacek is not anywhere near as bad as people make out. He's this year's whipping boy - we always have one - based on his contract. Gomez is the obvious choice, but people still look at him & say that with a bounce back season, he's still one of the top 2 centres on this team. Spacek, on the other hand, is easily 5th or even 6th on the depth chart, so for some reason his contract is the anchor around our necks that will sink us.

Its unfortunate that we do have good #4-7 depth because it makes Jaro's contract look bad, but it isnt even close to a 'bad contract' if you look around the league. Its also not like he's an unservicable defensman. He's no #7 brisebois or something - this is the guy who almost single-handedly threw ovechkin off his game for 4 games in round 1 of the playoffs 2 years ago. He does have value, he just needs his icetime limited, which obviously is somewhat incongruous in connection with his salary, but such is life.

If we go back two seasons ago, Spacek started out ok but he clearly wore down as the season went on. This was partly because he was over-used after Markov's injury, but it was clear he couldn't be a top 4 D man for an entire season. After the Olympic break, he was rejuvenated, but it didn't last long... he went through another period of lethargy, but then turned it up again in the playoffs.

In his second season, Spacek had a miserable start, both in the pre-season and as you said, in the first 25 games of the regular season. He improved a bit thereafter, but then suffered an injury. When he came back, he played 2-3 decent games and then went on to have a fairly poor post-season.

I agree that part of his woes can be blamed on playing off-wing, but even when he was playing the left side last year, he made too many bad decisions, especially on late pinch-ins. As I said, if he's making less money then I'm ok with him rotating in and out of the 6th and 7th spots with Weber. But from what I've seen from him in his first two seasons, Gill is the more serviceable of the two, both in terms of endurance over the course of a season and in terms of being able to fill a specific role/need with the team.

Pro and/or con the Spaceman is what he is and has been. There are merits to both assessments IMO, which I think could indicate for the Habs he is expendable (if tradeable) and yet for another team he could be a useful addition of experience under the right circumstances.

If tradeable... and a team like the Islanders could be a potential trade partner still IMO if they need to spend some of that 10 million plus they still remain under the cap floor. A higher draft position ( that the Isles could maintain) even if it would be in mid-to-late round could be acceptable to both teams.

The Islanders currently need experience and bodies to fill out their roster.

[musicalhab]

Somewhat of a positive value in the lineup if playing limited minutes and with limited power-play time. He likely still has some value on the market to some teams, but would any return for Spacek help us immediately, in comparison to a healthy Jaroslav on our third unit? Hard to say. I believe it to be of better value for the team to keep Spacek during the final year of his contract, and depending on where we are standings wise at the trade line and how well he has played, maybe try and move him then for a cheap return.

[hatethosebruins]

With Yemelin and Weber looking to become regulars, as well as the possibility of seeing Diaz being up with the club, look for Jaro to appear in less games IMO.

[jennifer_rocket]

With Yemelin and Weber looking to become regulars, as well as the possibility of seeing Diaz being up with the club, look for Jaro to appear in less games IMO.

Yemelin will hopefully be a regular. I still don't see Weber as anything more than a fourth line forward with powerplay time or an injury fill-in. As far as Diaz is concerned... I will wait to see him in camp before assuming he makes the team. I still think he will wind up in Hamilton.

[hatethosebruins]

Yemelin will hopefully be a regular. I still don't see Weber as anything more than a fourth line forward with powerplay time or an injury fill-in. As far as Diaz is concerned... I will wait to see him in camp before assuming he makes the team. I still think he will wind up in Hamilton.

Fair enough, I hope for all three to be regulars next season however, Weber Diaz and Emelin. To go with Markov Subban and another top 4 d-man. Preferably hannan. Gives us a young defensive core, with some veteran leadership. Good two way defenseamn in Yemeling and Subban, while Weber and Diaz help QB the powerplay. As well as shutdown defense from Gorges and Hannan. Not sure how they'd all fit so itd be something like

Markov-Subban

Gorges-Hannan

Yemelin-Weber/Diaz

Diaz/Weber

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

1. Jaroslav Spacek

(81%) Regular season

(74%) Playoffs

This is a great example of where statistics dispute perceptions. When questioned, many Hab fans would question Spacek's ability to make a strong first-pass. In fact, his regular season success-rate is tops among Montreal's returning defensive-core.

http://www.boucherscouting.com/2011/09/habs-spacek-with-top-defensive-zone.html?spref=tw

Does this not represent value that may interest a team like the Islanders needing to reach the cap minimum?

Is this a value that the Habs may want to hold onto?

[BigTed3]

1. Jaroslav Spacek

(81%) Regular season

(74%) Playoffs

This is a great example of where statistics dispute perceptions. When questioned, many Hab fans would question Spacek's ability to make a strong first-pass. In fact, his regular season success-rate is tops among Montreal's returning defensive-core.

http://www.boucherscouting.com/2011/09/habs-spacek-with-top-defensive-zone.html?spref=tw

Does this not represent value that may interest a team like the Islanders needing to reach the cap minimum?

Is this a value that the Habs may want to hold onto?

Spacek has never been a terrible passer, but I think we have to be careful reading too much into those. If a D man throws it over to his partner but puts that guy in a difficult position to make a second pass, the stat will look rosy for the 1st guy and not so nice for the second guy. You'd also have to wonder how well these stats reflect true game play when guys like Markov, Subban, and Gorges are beat by guys like Spacek and Gill (who was at 78% himself if I recall)... if you take an overall gestalt of the situation, a guy like Subban or Markov is also able to carry the puck up ice and I'd be willing to hedge a bet that when they're missing passes, those are going long, whereas guys like Spacek and MAB have tended to be soft on the puck at times and given up turnovers that led to better scoring chances. As I said, Spacek's first pass is one of his better skills, but I'm not convinced a stat like this gives an accurate reflection of what each of these guys contributed to the offence and defence last year.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

Spacek has never been a terrible passer, but I think we have to be careful reading too much into those. If a D man throws it over to his partner but puts that guy in a difficult position to make a second pass, the stat will look rosy for the 1st guy and not so nice for the second guy. You'd also have to wonder how well these stats reflect true game play when guys like Markov, Subban, and Gorges are beat by guys like Spacek and Gill (who was at 78% himself if I recall)... if you take an overall gestalt of the situation, a guy like Subban or Markov is also able to carry the puck up ice and I'd be willing to hedge a bet that when they're missing passes, those are going long, whereas guys like Spacek and MAB have tended to be soft on the puck at times and given up turnovers that led to better scoring chances. As I said, Spacek's first pass is one of his better skills, but I'm not convinced a stat like this gives an accurate reflection of what each of these guys contributed to the offence and defence last year.

Points taken... but...

Does this not represent value that may interest a team like the Islanders needing to reach the cap minimum?

Is this a value that the Habs may want to hold onto?

[BigTed3]

Points taken... but...

Does this not represent value that may interest a team like the Islanders needing to reach the cap minimum?

Is this a value that the Habs may want to hold onto?

Well you tell me. If you were the GM for another team in a similar position to us, would you be looking to acquire a guy like Spacek? I'd look at those first-pass numbers and say that's nice, but he's still an older player on a guaranteed contract for 3.8M and his overall game is declining. Looking at the big picture, he's not an asset I'd invest in.

[BeanCountingHab]

Well you tell me. If you were the GM for another team in a similar position to us, would you be looking to acquire a guy like Spacek? I'd look at those first-pass numbers and say that's nice, but he's still an older player on a guaranteed contract for 3.8M and his overall game is declining. Looking at the big picture, he's not an asset I'd invest in.

I'd only be acquiring him if I were trying to move a defenseman (or maybe another player) on a long contract I wanted to get rid of. Think Spacek ++ for Brian Campbell if Florida hadn't made them such a great offer. Unfortunately a big contract is the last thing we need.

[BigTed3]

I'd only be acquiring him if I were trying to move a defenseman (or maybe another player) on a long contract I wanted to get rid of. Think Spacek ++ for Brian Campbell if Florida hadn't made them such a great offer. Unfortunately a big contract is the last thing we need.

Absolutely. At least Spacek's deal runs out after this year and it'll be one headache off the table. Ditto for Moen. BG made a few decent signings/trades and a couple of real stinkers that we're paying for now, but at this point, there's no point in dealing one problem for another longer-term one.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

Well you tell me. If you were the GM for another team in a similar position to us, would you be looking to acquire a guy like Spacek? I'd look at those first-pass numbers and say that's nice, but he's still an older player on a guaranteed contract for 3.8M and his overall game is declining. Looking at the big picture, he's not an asset I'd invest in.

Okay... I will For one year if I was the GM of the Islanders I would consider it. Spacek may not be a top-four player, but I do believe he could help a franchise like the Islanders under the current circumstances even if the caphit seems high.

I'd only be acquiring him if I were trying to move a defenseman (or maybe another player) on a long contract I wanted to get rid of. Think Spacek ++ for Brian Campbell if Florida hadn't made them such a great offer. Unfortunately a big contract is the last thing we need.

You're probably thinking like the Habs GM and not the Islanders... with two different needs to be met.

It sounds as though you both feel Jaro is washed-up and barely useful to any team out there. Is he really that bad overall? I don't think so... and I believe there could be some GM's that may think the same thing and need to spend to stay over the cap minimum. Of cousre there could be other players available, but Spacek could be one of them.