2012 NHL Entry Draft

[grecohab]

There are 4 top forwards, Yakupov, Grigorenko, Forsberg, and Galchenyuk. With the number of talented D men, you have to believe one of them will fall to 7th.

I agree with you. I am not so sure though know, that we will end up picking 7th. After the next 12 games, prior to the deadline we will certainly know. My opinion is we either select a top-5 lottery pick, or we draft in the 10-16 range. I have a feeling they are not giving up the season yet. Patience for three more weeks.

[BigTed3]

There are 4 top forwards, Yakupov, Grigorenko, Forsberg, and Galchenyuk. With the number of talented D men, you have to believe one of them will fall to 7th.

Agreed that there are 4 top forwards and a number of D men who could push into the top 5, but I think the odds are that all 4 of those top forwards will be gone within the 1st 7 picks. If I were to project where we'll finish, I'd see the CBJ, NYI, Edm, and Car all likely to finish behind us based on their rosters and pedigree. I believe Ana is likely going to surge by us, but I wouldn't be surprised to see teams like Tor, Wpg, Dal, Cgy, or even the Panthers slip down a notch. TB and Buf are wild-cards in similar situations to us and a lot will depend on who gets hot and what teams do at the deadline. However, we have an easier schedule than either team and better goaltending to boot, so I believe the odds are on us to finish out stronger.

If we look at schedules going forward, Cgy has a fairly modest strength of schedule and is already up on us by 8-9 points, I believe. Sp even though I don't think they're a great team, I think the odds are still on them finishing ahead of us. Conversely, the NYI, Jets, Sabres, and Stars have tough schedules and I could see all of them being passable in the standings. My guess is that we'll finish ahead of CBJ, NYI, Edm, Dal, Car, TB, Buf, and Wpg. Whether we catch teams like Toronto is another question and while I think it's possible we ay be 2-3 spots higher or lower than this, my guess is that we're going to go into the lottery in the 9th slot. That, in my opinion, would put any of those 4 forwards out of reach because I do not see 5 D men slipping in before all of the are chosen.

[jedimaas]

Unfortunately, the pessimist in me sees management pushing to make the playoffs this year. That may not mean being "buyers" at the deadline, but it also may mean not being "sellers" either. Keeping the status quo could be enough to get us a top 8 - 10 finish in the conference. Whether we do make the playoffs or not, is still up in the air, but I have a feeling we will be lucky to get a top 10 pick, which is too bad because any of those top forwards - especially Grigorenko or Galchenyuk - could be a huge step towards our future.

I hope that Pierre realizes this - actually, im SURE he does - but I hope that he has the guts to go against what may be management's wishes and do what is best for the team long-term. The problem is that if he and the team dont see eye to eye on this matter, it would most likely mean his job this summer and it would be hard to expect anyone to make a decision like that, even if they felt it was best, at the expense of their employment.

[S-Bah]

Don't you think it is time to draft some talented, sized forwards? They will have, even or more, return value, afterwards.

I have expressed my views on the Habs getting centers for the future,they need to get high end prospects at center otherwise it's the same old futility.Nieves is a possible later pick at center.

[grecohab]

A first atempt at a personal top ten mock draft:

1st: Yakupov (CBJ)

2nd: Grigorenko (MTL from EDM)

3rd: Forsberg (CAR)

4th: Murray (BUF)

5th: Dumba (NYI)

6th: Galtsenyuk (ANA)

7th: Trouba (PHX)

8th: Reinhart (TBL)

9th: Gaunce (WPG)

10th:Ceci (EDM from MTL)

I just have a trade up draft feeling. I hope it isn't for Subban, though...

[jedimaas]

I just have a trade up draft feeling. I hope it isn't for Subban, though...

No way we move subban unless we get a top pairing dman back in return. Maybe - MAYBE - we move subban & our pick for another team's top 2 pick + an older top pairing dman, but even then, I think this organization is committed to Subban, despite what the media would have us believe.

[grecohab]

No way we move subban unless we get a top pairing dman back in return. Maybe - MAYBE - we move subban & our pick for another team's top 2 pick + an older top pairing dman, but even then, I think this organization is committed to Subban, despite what the media would have us believe.

I was thinking something like Subban+MTL 1st(10th) for Paajarvi Svensson+EDM 1st(2nd). Edmonton has depth in forwards and will have Subban+Ceci for the future and Montreal has upcoming depth at defense and builds a whole knew fascinating line in Pacioretty-Grigorenko-Paajarvi. Then again, i am not a fan of trading Subban...If so, i hope its worth it.

[S-Bah]

The Habs have a young core group;Desharnais 25,Diaz 26,Eller 22,Emelin 25,Engqvist 24,Gorges 27,Kostitsyn 26,Leblanc 20,Pacioretty 23,Price 24,Subban 22,Weber 23 and White 23.Out of 13 players 5 on defence,1 goalie and seven forwards. That gives the Habs star quality players in Eller,Subban and Price,with Price the only one that is close to achieving that status.With Tinordi,Beaulieu and many other great defensive prospects the major need from the draft would be an Elite type centerman that can step into the 1st line duties within three yrs.Grigorenko and Galchenyuk being the two players in the 2012 draft that fall in that category,next season it will be MacKinnon.Let's hope the Habs fill that need this year,for who knows how long it will be before they play as poorly as they have this season again.

[grecohab]

The Habs have a young core group;Desharnais 25,Diaz 26,Eller 22,Emelin 25,Engqvist 24,Gorges 27,Kostitsyn 26,Leblanc 20,Pacioretty 23,Price 24,Subban 22,Weber 23 and White 23.Out of 13 players 5 on defence,1 goalie and seven forwards. That gives the Habs star quality players in Eller,Subban and Price,with Price the only one that is close to achieving that status.With Tinordi,Beaulieu and many other great defensive prospects the major need from the draft would be an Elite type centerman that can step into the 1st line duties within three yrs.Grigorenko and Galchenyuk being the two players in the 2012 draft that fall in that category,next season it will be MacKinnon.Let's hope the Habs fill that need this year,for who knows how long it will be before they play as poorly as they have this season again.

We don't only need a top center with size. We also need a true energy 4th line, that can change the momentum, and contribute in a game. You didn't mention Blunden above, who is turning out to be, a real steal, and is relatively young. I have said it before, standings aren't telling the truth. We are one-two moves away, thats why i prefer the retooling tactic, than the rebuilding.

[31Careyprice]

As of right now my draft pick selections:

1. Columbus: Nail Yakupov, RW, Sarnia (OHL)

2. Edmonton: Ryan Murray, D, Everett (WHL)

3. Carolina: Mathew Dumba, D, Red Deer (WHL)

4. Anaheim: Mikhail Grigorenko, C, Quebec (QMJHL)

5. Buffalo: Filip Forsberg, W, Leksand(SWE)

6. Montreal: Alex Galchenyuk, C, Sarnia (OHL)

7. New York I: Morgan Rielly, D, Moose Jaw (WHL)

[grecohab]

As of right now my draft pick selections:

1. Columbus: Nail Yakupov, RW, Sarnia (OHL)

2. Edmonton: Ryan Murray, D, Everett (WHL)

3. Carolina: Mathew Dumba, D, Red Deer (WHL)

4. Anaheim: Mikhail Grigorenko, C, Quebec (QMJHL)

5. Buffalo: Filip Forsberg, W, Leksand(SWE)

6. Montreal: Alex Galchenyuk, C, Sarnia (OHL)

7. New York I: Morgan Rielly, D, Moose Jaw (WHL)

Nice try...i expect though that we draft higher (top-5). If the order is the one you mentioned above, i understand 1 and 2, but why would CAR pass on Grigorenko, and why would BUF select Forsberg over Galtsenyuk?

[31Careyprice]

Nice try...i expect though that we draft higher (top-5). If the order is the one you mentioned above, i understand 1 and 2, but why would CAR pass on Grigorenko, and why would BUF select Forsberg over Galtsenyuk?

Carolina needs young defense (Murray, Reilly, Dumba), so i gave them BPA available on defense. Buffalo takes the safer pick of the two, I believe Buffalo would also rather a Winger more then a Center. Forsberg is a big speedy power forward who can score goals, I wouldn't mind the habs picking him.

[MkGee]

i feel stupid for asking but is filip peters son?

[jennifer_rocket]

i feel stupid for asking but is filip peters son?

No relation as far as I know.

[BeanCountingHab]

Anyone catch the CHL top prospects game last night? There was probably a future Hab somewhere out there.

[East_Coast_Juggalo_13]

Would anybody mind using our pick to draft Brendan Gaunce from the Belville Bulls? This kid looks more like the complete package we are after...He's 6-2,200+ pounds...Here's some scouting on him I found:

http://www.hockeyprospect.com/index.php/articles/nhl-draft-news/item/91-draft-year-2012-brendan-gaunce.html

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2012/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Brendan-Gaunce

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1103744--bulls-brendan-gaunce-mature-beyond-his-years

I want him...

[grecohab]

Would anybody mind using our pick to draft Brendan Gaunce from the Belville Bulls? This kid looks more like the complete package we are after...He's 6-2,200+ pounds...Here's some scouting on him I found:

http://www.hockeyprospect.com/index.php/articles/nhl-draft-news/item/91-draft-year-2012-brendan-gaunce.html

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2012/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Brendan-Gaunce

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/1103744--bulls-brendan-gaunce-mature-beyond-his-years

I want him...

[grecohab]

According to mock drafts, he will be picked at the 10th-15th range. If we make a run, and miss the playoffs by a small margin, we will probably be able to pick him up. The thing is, that we may pick top-5, having a 40% chance to pick Yakupov or Grigorenko with the top 2 picks. We have though a 60% chance to gain the 3rd, 4th or 5th pick. If so we have two options:

1. Trade down at the draft finding a team in the 10-15 picking range, that is willing to trade their 1st+prospect for our 3rd-5th pick. For example MTL 1st for MIN 1st+Scandella or COL 1st(WSH)+Carlsson or FLA 1st+Petrovic or PHX 1st+Ekman-Larsson. In this case from the first round you can get, your big center in Gaunce (Grigersons wouldn't be bad also), plus another high d-prospect like Scandella, Carlsson, Petrovic, Ekman-Larsson.

2. Trade up at the draft and gain another 1st round pick. This can be possible if we trade at the deadline Gill or Moen for a late 2nd round pick and Kostitsyn, plus maybe something (Gill?Moen?Weber?), for a late 1st. Then we can package the late 1st, the late 2nd and CGY 2nd in 2013 for a mid 1st in 2012. In this case we can come out of the first round with Galtsenyuk and Gaunce/Grigersons.

From the two options above i would definetly prefer the latter.

[kinot-1]

If we're going down the drain this year,,,,I want a top 5 pick,,,nothing less will do. I don't care what PG has to do to make it happen,,,but,,just do it.

[S-Bah]

Montreal looks to be in good shape for the next two drafts,Grigorenko or Galchenyuk this year and possibly Ceci or Rinehart to solidify the backend.If not next season will give them another high choice to fill the most glaring needs.

[BigTed3]

Maybe not recently, but history does show a trend of high drafts leading to success. There's Staal, who was 2nd overall. Forsberg (1st overall), Scott Niedermayer in NJ (3rd overall in 1991), Vincent Lecavalier (1st overall in 1998), that have translated into cups and were the dominant players on their teams.

I would argue that when you start drafting after the 5th it becomes more of a gamble. I hear what you're saying that we need to complement our 1st rounders with other "smart" picks. But I think that it's the 1st rounder that should be given the most attention. It more rare that a late rounder blossoms into a bonafide star. So, while not every low draft pick leads to success, your chances are increased. We have an opportunity here to increase our chances at success. Why not give it a shot?

I'm not saying that high picks don't sometimes lead to success. It's invariable that it's going to happen, primarily because at least a third of the teams in the league are going to feature a past top 5 pick of their own at any given time and probably over two thirds will feature a prior top 5 pick (not necessarily their own). All I'm saying here is that getting a top 5 pick is not essential to success. You can build without top 5 picks. You can acquire some high picks without having to tank and make them your own. Let's also keep in mind that some of those guys you mentioned were drafted and had success before the implementation of the cap. It becomes much harder to grab a #1 overall pick, pay him 8-10M and surround him with enough talent to win. Just look at how Washington has struggled to surround Ovi.

Well, let's take Tavares. Yes... Right now it doesn't matter that he has 53 points 49 games because his team doesn't have a chance to make the play-offs. But it may matter in a few seasons if New York can ever turn their darn team around. I feel having a premier talent at the forward position and on D does help a lot.

You mentioned Boston. Nathan Horton was the third overall draft choice, and he did play a very important part in their Cup run. Carey Price will attest to that. Zdeno Chara was drafted later (3rd round), but has become one of the league's best D. We have had very little luck in the way of building a team through depth. I suppose some teams just get lucky. Are we terrible at drafting?

Yes... I suppose it helps if we can simply acquire premier talent, but look how that has gone for us... Gomez? Gionta and Cammalleri never really panned out as premier talent either. It'd be beautiful if we could just sign a Marion Gaborik and insulate him with a talented core, but Montreal seems to struggle with these types of signings. Do we have any other choice but to draft high in order to obtain a top player? I suppose there's a chance we could get lucky, but there's no one in the system right now he appears to be a 80+ point scorer or a number 1 D.

Sure Tavares could lead his team to a Cup. But guys like Datsyuk/Zetterberg and Chara/Thomas/Bergeron have also led their teams to Cups without being top 5 picks. I'd also hedge my bets that Detroit and Boston win another Cup before the NYI get one. I'd vouch that Seguin (who was acquired without tanking) or Eberle (not a top 5 pick) or others could go on to have just as successful a career as a guy the Isles had to be incredibly bad to get. Again, I'm not saying I would choose to pick 14th if I could have the 2nd pick instead; the 2nd pick is obviously a player with a better pedigree. But for every Toews and Malkin, there's also a Daigle, a Bonk, or a Pouliot. I'd love to have a Grigorenko or Yakupov, but I still believe there are advantages to not finishing last and I still believe you can get a guy at #6 or #10 who can be an impact player in most draft years.

As far as Horton goes, I'll say that I don't think he was one of the 3-4 most important players for Boston, although I agree he was a big pick-up for them, one I advocated the Habs going after a couple of summers ago (and why I think we should go for Ryan or Stewart now)... but that's just my point: the Bruins didn't have to tank and still ended up with guys like Seguin, Horton, Pouliot, etc... not one of those high picks was given to them because of their finishing poorly, yet they managed their assets well and turned lower 1st-round picks and parts they didn't need any more into those guys instead. Boston's used the trade and free agent markets to complement some home-grown talent and they've nailed a bunch of second-round picks to get where they are. Yeah, it's easier to just go out and pick Yakupov, but it's not the only means to the end.

[31Careyprice]

Would be great if the habs can get another 1st rounder

[grecohab]

I'm not saying that high picks don't sometimes lead to success. It's invariable that it's going to happen, primarily because at least a third of the teams in the league are going to feature a past top 5 pick of their own at any given time and probably over two thirds will feature a prior top 5 pick (not necessarily their own). All I'm saying here is that getting a top 5 pick is not essential to success. You can build without top 5 picks. You can acquire some high picks without having to tank and make them your own. Let's also keep in mind that some of those guys you mentioned were drafted and had success before the implementation of the cap. It becomes much harder to grab a #1 overall pick, pay him 8-10M and surround him with enough talent to win. Just look at how Washington has struggled to surround Ovi.

Sure Tavares could lead his team to a Cup. But guys like Datsyuk/Zetterberg and Chara/Thomas/Bergeron have also led their teams to Cups without being top 5 picks. I'd also hedge my bets that Detroit and Boston win another Cup before the NYI get one. I'd vouch that Seguin (who was acquired without tanking) or Eberle (not a top 5 pick) or others could go on to have just as successful a career as a guy the Isles had to be incredibly bad to get. Again, I'm not saying I would choose to pick 14th if I could have the 2nd pick instead; the 2nd pick is obviously a player with a better pedigree. But for every Toews and Malkin, there's also a Daigle, a Bonk, or a Pouliot. I'd love to have a Grigorenko or Yakupov, but I still believe there are advantages to not finishing last and I still believe you can get a guy at #6 or #10 who can be an impact player in most draft years.

As far as Horton goes, I'll say that I don't think he was one of the 3-4 most important players for Boston, although I agree he was a big pick-up for them, one I advocated the Habs going after a couple of summers ago (and why I think we should go for Ryan or Stewart now)... but that's just my point: the Bruins didn't have to tank and still ended up with guys like Seguin, Horton, Pouliot, etc... not one of those high picks was given to them because of their finishing poorly, yet they managed their assets well and turned lower 1st-round picks and parts they didn't need any more into those guys instead. Boston's used the trade and free agent markets to complement some home-grown talent and they've nailed a bunch of second-round picks to get where they are. Yeah, it's easier to just go out and pick Yakupov, but it's not the only means to the end.

As discussed in previous posts, i totally agree with your replies at this. A top pick is like a Pandora Box, given to you at draft day, to open after 3 years. When you open it you may find the greatest tresure of the world, but there is a possibility also, that when you open it you find nothing inside, or even worse you find a letter that informs you that after another 3 years you would be a totally mess.

Without the Cap Hit, i would gurantee you, that financial wealthy teams would dominate the league every year, winning Cups and building dynasties. It is the Cup era though, and everyone has to adapt in this new situation. It is vain to expect a team to win a couple of Cups in a row. Success nowadays, is the ability to ice top competative teams, for a timetable of 5 years, in which you might not even win a Cup, before contract demands, salary caps, or age declines your success. This is discribed, by many, as the cap affect.

Then again there is the ultimate success, that comes with elite management that can leed successfully a team, expanding the timetable window to unknown borders. This can be achieved when you can evaluate masterly, develop properly, and follow basic market rules like buy low-sell high, invest on underachieving-dismiss on overachieving, make a profit from nothing-cut the loses away...Its all about dedication on the masterplan, predict the future conditions wisely and having the maturity, capability, and ability to make a bold, strategic move when needed. A masterplan followed even when the team is at the top, making sure the team isn't going to experience any cap affects.

You can find teams through resent hockey history, that iced high competative teams for very long streches of time, without tanking or drafting high. A complete powerhouse with elite management like Detroit. It is not luck, it is capability, knowledge and trust. Trust from fan base in the management, and bying in the plan that is scheduled for the team. I find this bond extremely important, clarifies a teams internal health, and i have come to a conclusion that its a missing part in Montreal, for a long, long time...

To all you friends/fans of our beloved team. Lets say, hypothetical, that Chicago, who is in a win now mode, with desperate needs in 2nd line center, penalty killing and defense, called Montreal offering Saad, McNeil and CHI 1st in 2012, for Plekanec and Gill, would you do it? I think it is a great trade for both teams, and albeit many will think otherwise, it is exactly the kind of trade discibing the whole phylosophy of this post. It should actually be Montreal making the phone call.

[CANADIENS27]

Would anybody mind using our pick to draft Brendan Gaunce from the Belville Bulls? This kid looks more like the complete package we are after...He's 6-2,200+ pounds...Here's some scouting on him I found:

http://www.hockeypro...dan-gaunce.html

http://www.mynhldraf.../Brendan-Gaunce

http://www.thestar.c...eyond-his-years

I want him...

[/quote

Does that translate into a potential 40 goal scorer at the NHL level and are there others with this potential that we have a realistic chance at drafting?

[Guest habs1952]

As discussed in previous posts, i totally agree with your replies at this. A top pick is like a Pandora Box, given to you at draft day, to open after 3 years. When you open it you may find the greatest tresure of the world, but there is a possibility also, that when you open it you find nothing inside, or even worse you find a letter that informs you that after another 3 years you would be a totally mess.

Without the Cap Hit, i would gurantee you, that financial wealthy teams would dominate the league every year, winning Cups and building dynasties. It is the Cup era though, and everyone has to adapt in this new situation. It is vain to expect a team to win a couple of Cups in a row. Success nowadays, is the ability to ice top competative teams, for a timetable of 5 years, in which you might not even win a Cup, before contract demands, salary caps, or age declines your success. This is discribed, by many, as the cap affect.

Then again there is the ultimate success, that comes with elite management that can leed successfully a team, expanding the timetable window to unknown borders. This can be achieved when you can evaluate masterly, develop properly, and follow basic market rules like buy low-sell high, invest on underachieving-dismiss on overachieving, make a profit from nothing-cut the loses away...Its all about dedication on the masterplan, predict the future conditions wisely and having the maturity, capability, and ability to make a bold, strategic move when needed. A masterplan followed even when the team is at the top, making sure the team isn't going to experience any cap affects.

You can find teams through resent hockey history, that iced high competative teams for very long streches of time, without tanking or drafting high. A complete powerhouse with elite management like Detroit. It is not luck, it is capability, knowledge and trust. Trust from fan base in the management, and bying in the plan that is scheduled for the team. I find this bond extremely important, clarifies a teams internal health, and i have come to a conclusion that its a missing part in Montreal, for a long, long time...

To all you friends/fans of our beloved team. Lets say, hypothetical, that Chicago, who is in a win now mode, with desperate needs in 2nd line center, penalty killing and defense, called Montreal offering Saad, McNeil and CHI 1st in 2012, for Plekanec and Gill, would you do it? I think it is a great trade for both teams, and albeit many will think otherwise, it is exactly the kind of trade discibing the whole phylosophy of this post. It should actually be Montreal making the phone call.

Detroit picked Zetterberg 210th in 1999 and Datsyuk was picked 171st in 1998. I'd say Detroit got pretty lucky with these two low draft picks.