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The 2012 NHL unrestricted free agent class


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I see what you're saying, but in this case I think that I would be willing to give him a big contract. Not something like what Parise got, mind you, but at this point it's looking very unlikely (at least from an outsider's perspective) that it's going to take a huge contract to get him signed.

In other threads I've mentioned how I don't think that it's really worth it to demote Gomez without having a good reason to need that cap space. Semin, to me, is a good enough reason. For the record, looking at our current team I'd also take Cammy back. We just really seem to be missing a high-end scorer.

I'd sign him, pretty quickly. Washington never really had to baby him, he often drew pretty touch matchups and I don't think he's a bad defensive player - at all. The only question is whether or not you believe the attitude is an issue and to me the production wins out. He's a good player and IMO should be valued accordingly.

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I see what you're saying, but in this case I think that I would be willing to give him a big contract. Not something like what Parise got, mind you, but at this point it's looking very unlikely (at least from an outsider's perspective) that it's going to take a huge contract to get him signed.

In other threads I've mentioned how I don't think that it's really worth it to demote Gomez without having a good reason to need that cap space. Semin, to me, is a good enough reason. For the record, looking at our current team I'd also take Cammy back. We just really seem to be missing a high-end scorer.

Well, I'm not saying I wouldn't sign him at all - quite the contrary actually - I was just sharing my thoughts on long-term deals for players like Parise and Semin.

The question is how we define a 'big contract' in Semin's case - and frankly, I'm not so sure that he's going to settle for a smaller amount. By all accounts, he has a lucrative offer from the KHL, why should he sign with an NHL team for say 5 million? He'll likely command at least 6 million on a short-term deal, i.e. Cammalleri money, which would make him the second-highest player on our team. Not sure if we actually have sufficient Cap space for signing Subban to an extension AND adding Semin to our roster - without sending Gomez to the AHL/Europe at least. I totally agree with you though, the current team absolutely lacks scoring depth. And we won't be able to grind it out like the Blues or Rangers last season because we don't have the defense either. If Bergevin isn't willing to make additional changes to the roster, I'm expecting another Top 10 pick at next year's draft.

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Looks like Mueller is off the market as well, signing a 1-year deal worth 1.75M with Florida. Too bad, I would've been willing to take a gamble on him.

For that price it wouldn't have been a bad deal. Not sure if he would fit the hole we need though

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I have no idea what your definition of "perfect consistency" is, isn't perfect consistency another word for 0 standard deviation? And it's a little misleading to use average injuries into account when his last (weakest) season he played more games than his average season.

Graeme,

Zero standard deviation is just luck. You expect some statistical fluctuations because each shot on net is a random trial.

If a hockey player scores n-goals per year, you expect the standard deviation in goals scored to be square root of n.

In the case of a 31-goal player like Semin, perfectly consistent stats over 6 seasons would include:

41-28-22-32-28-27,

14-32-29-18-29-38,

28-35-22-20-34-36,

35-27-32-33-35-28,

with a standard deviation of 5.57 goals per season. These perfect-consistency stats were generated using a random number generator in the matlab programming language, and so actually you might expect that these sequences are far more consistent than you'd expect of a real players, given real-life effects such as injuries, aging process, experience acquisition, variable linemates, and variable PP opportunities.

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Graeme,

Zero standard deviation is just luck. You expect some statistical fluctuations because each shot on net is a random trial.

If a hockey player scores n-goals per year, you expect the standard deviation in goals scored to be square root of n.

In the case of a 31-goal player like Semin, perfectly consistent stats over 6 seasons would include:

41-28-22-32-28-27,

14-32-29-18-29-38,

28-35-22-20-34-36,

35-27-32-33-35-28,

with a standard deviation of 5.57 goals per season. These perfect-consistency stats were generated using a random number generator in the matlab programming language, and so actually you might expect that these sequences are far more consistent than you'd expect of a real players, given real-life effects such as injuries, aging process, experience acquisition, variable linemates, and variable PP opportunities.

Now that's statistics for you!

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Anyways, what I don't get is if this is all about being eastern European, why did Kovalchuk and Hossa get long term deals and have tons of interest in them?

Because many forms of prejudice involve making exceptions for exceptional people. Ergo, you have to be THE best Russian or Slovak or whatever before people will award you any merit. It's the old insulting rhetoric of exceptionalism, i.e. "Most Russians are lazy -- why can't they all be like player X?" So many enter into the discussion with confirmation bias: they already believe Russians are inherently lazy, and are thus ready to subscribe to that pattern of belief whenever a Russian player struggles. A Canadian player who struggles has to suck a lot worse for a lot longer to get that kind of treatment.

Ultimately, it's not the unequivocal superstars who experience discrimination, because they're fortunate enough to be so gifted that prejudice is exposed for what it is if it's applied to them. It's the 'lesser' players, the swing players like Semin or Kovalev, who always get the gears, who are always lowballed, because it's easy to get away with. Everyone already thinks Russians are lazy, with some exceptions, so you can cloak your prejudice as just stating the facts. Look at that idiot Rutherford in Carolina openly saying he'd stay away from Semin because of the 'stories' he's heard. That's a professional, objective opinion? Please. Rutherford is acting true to type -- a white North American guy already so comfortable with tacit discrimination that he'd lowball a good free agent based on innuendo.

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Because many forms of prejudice involve making exceptions for exceptional people. Ergo, you have to be THE best Russian or Slovak or whatever before people will award you any merit. It's the old insulting rhetoric of exceptionalism, i.e. "Most Russians are lazy -- why can't they all be like player X?" So many enter into the discussion with confirmation bias: they already believe Russians are inherently lazy, and are thus ready to subscribe to that pattern of belief whenever a Russian player struggles. A Canadian player who struggles has to suck a lot worse for a lot longer to get that kind of treatment.

Ultimately, it's not the unequivocal superstars who experience discrimination, because they're fortunate enough to be so gifted that prejudice is exposed for what it is if it's applied to them. It's the 'lesser' players, the swing players like Semin or Kovalev, who always get the gears, who are always lowballed, because it's easy to get away with. Everyone already thinks Russians are lazy, with some exceptions, so you can cloak your prejudice as just stating the facts. Look at that idiot Rutherford in Carolina openly saying he'd stay away from Semin because of the 'stories' he's heard. That's a professional, objective opinion? Please. Rutherford is acting true to type -- a white North American guy already so comfortable with tacit discrimination that he'd lowball a good free agent based on innuendo.

There are lots of stereo types, such as Europeans are more finess and Canadians more grinders. Every stereotype has some fact to it. one thing though is the average Euro grinder probably doesn't get over here.

You mention "swing players" such as Kovie(not sure what swing player means) but i always felt that Kovie could have been better with more consistent drive, just as others could be. Players like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Lidstom, Datsyuk and many others don't seem to "take nights off" and it is this that makes them truly great.

A famous golfer once said that the golf abilities of most PGA players was similar but the difference was their ability under pressure. Some atheletes get in "the ZONE" sometimes, but the greats are there most of the time.

I sum it up to inner make-up. You take a group of students, factory workers, office workers, politicians etc and some with average ability will excell, some with exceptional ability will coast and some with above average ability will be outstanding. It is that inner make-up that sets their tone.

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I sum it up to inner make-up. You take a group of students, factory workers, office workers, politicians etc and some with average ability will excell, some with exceptional ability will coast and some with above average ability will be outstanding. It is that inner make-up that sets their tone.

I'll ignore that most stereotypes are complete garbage and just say that this isn't an issue. Work ethic/drive whatever you want to call it is a skill, some players certainly have a higher motor than others but it's simply something you factor into an evaluation of a player before you draft him/sign him/trade for him. I just don't get why people freak out over perceived work ethic so much. It's just a skill, no different than any other skills you scout and make a evaluation on. If you sign a guy who can't stick handle for 6 years/30 mill, how stupid would it be to turn around and complain that the guy isn't a good enough stick handler.

You mention factory workers, if you were to start a factory tomorrow and set a quota for all employees to make sure they're valuable to your business, would you care how they arrived at that quota? Whether it was 80% work ethic, 20% raw skill for some and 80% skill and 20% work ethic for others. Raw output is really what matters here. You sign Kovalev to a contract worthy of a 60 point player, he comes in and delivers it in a form similar to what he's done his whole career, so what is there to complain about?

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I'll ignore that most stereotypes are complete garbage and just say that this isn't an issue. Work ethic/drive whatever you want to call it is a skill, some players certainly have a higher motor than others but it's simply something you factor into an evaluation of a player before you draft him/sign him/trade for him. I just don't get why people freak out over perceived work ethic so much. It's just a skill, no different than any other skills you scout and make a evaluation on. If you sign a guy who can't stick handle for 6 years/30 mill, how stupid would it be to turn around and complain that the guy isn't a good enough stick handler.

You mention factory workers, if you were to start a factory tomorrow and set a quota for all employees to make sure they're valuable to your business, would you care how they arrived at that quota? Whether it was 80% work ethic, 20% raw skill for some and 80% skill and 20% work ethic for others. Raw output is really what matters here. You sign Kovalev to a contract worthy of a 60 point player, he comes in and delivers it in a form similar to what he's done his whole career, so what is there to complain about?

Well i guess it comes down to the consistency of the player. knowing what you will get when you send him over the boards. Some players will deliver, say "B" quality of work while another may give you an "A" quality but could just as well give you a "D" quality shift. Most management wants that "money in the bank" stability.

Now if you have that player who is inconsistent you don't put him out with a minute to go and you are up a goal. If you have a line of these players you could get lit-up. Coachs like a sure 1-0 win over a maybe 6-5 win.

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Guest habs1952

There are lots of stereo types, such as Europeans are more finess and Canadians more grinders. Every stereotype has some fact to it. one thing though is the average Euro grinder probably doesn't get over here.

You mention "swing players" such as Kovie(not sure what swing player means) but i always felt that Kovie could have been better with more consistent drive, just as others could be. Players like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Lidstom, Datsyuk and many others don't seem to "take nights off" and it is this that makes them truly great.

A famous golfer once said that the golf abilities of most PGA players was similar but the difference was their ability under pressure. Some atheletes get in "the ZONE" sometimes, but the greats are there most of the time.

I sum it up to inner make-up. You take a group of students, factory workers, office workers, politicians etc and some with average ability will excell, some with exceptional ability will coast and some with above average ability will be outstanding. It is that inner make-up that sets their tone.

Another stereotype is that western Canada juniors are tough, Quebec junior players are soft and Ontario junior players are somewhere in the middle of the two.

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Another stereotype is that western Canada juniors are tough, Quebec junior players are soft and Ontario junior players are somewhere in the middle of the two.

Wonder if that applies to the fans and Euro players?

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Guest habs1952

Wonder if that applies to the fans and Euro players?

Most teams fans are civil, Bruins and Philly fans are neanderthals and the Islanders and Coyotes don't have any fans at all. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Guest Regis2

i.e. "Most Russians are lazy -- why can't they all be like player X?" So many enter into the discussion with confirmation bias: they already believe Russians are inherently lazy, and are thus ready to subscribe to that pattern of belief whenever a Russian player struggles. .

Would you prefer people you use the term " enigmatic" ?

I heard Alex Kovalev referred as such

The guy supposedly had all the talent in the world , was magician with the puck , could do wonders in practise but put him a game situation and it many times it looked like he wasn't trying .

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Most teams fans are civil, Bruins and Philly fans are neanderthals and the Islanders and Coyotes don't have any fans at all. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Right about the neanderthals. Knew guy that was his two favourite teams. Once gave him a garbage can with Cup Losers Cup on it. A take-off from European football cup called Cup Winners Cup. The loseres cup was because when the neanderthals made to the finals they usually lost whereas Habs usually won. Haven't seen him since the Beantowners won. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

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Good for us, we dont need him.

We need a scoring winger though. Not saying that Lats is the answer but a 1-year deal for that kind of money carries absolutely zero risk. Prust makes twice as much I believe.

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We need a scoring winger though. Not saying that Lats is the answer but a 1-year deal for that kind of money carries absolutely zero risk. Prust makes twice as much I believe.

He didnt work the first time... plus if we cant find anyone, I would rather have one of the kids fight for the spot.

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He didnt work the first time... plus if we cant find anyone, I would rather have one of the kids fight for the spot.

Agreed, I'm actually hoping Geoffrion steps it up and proves everybody wrong at camp. He's got okay size and might be an option on the second line, production and consistency are still issues though.

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Ya, if we bring someone proven in to fill that LW spot that's one thing. But otherwise we may as well look in house.

I know I see some of these deals for Mueller, Wolski etc and think that wouldn't have been a bad gamble. But then I think if we're going to roll the dice on a young player it may as well be one of ours.

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Because many forms of prejudice involve making exceptions for exceptional people. Ergo, you have to be THE best Russian or Slovak or whatever before people will award you any merit. It's the old insulting rhetoric of exceptionalism, i.e. "Most Russians are lazy -- why can't they all be like player X?" So many enter into the discussion with confirmation bias: they already believe Russians are inherently lazy, and are thus ready to subscribe to that pattern of belief whenever a Russian player struggles. A Canadian player who struggles has to suck a lot worse for a lot longer to get that kind of treatment.

Ultimately, it's not the unequivocal superstars who experience discrimination, because they're fortunate enough to be so gifted that prejudice is exposed for what it is if it's applied to them. It's the 'lesser' players, the swing players like Semin or Kovalev, who always get the gears, who are always lowballed, because it's easy to get away with. Everyone already thinks Russians are lazy, with some exceptions, so you can cloak your prejudice as just stating the facts. Look at that idiot Rutherford in Carolina openly saying he'd stay away from Semin because of the 'stories' he's heard. That's a professional, objective opinion? Please. Rutherford is acting true to type -- a white North American guy already so comfortable with tacit discrimination that he'd lowball a good free agent based on innuendo.

Hey weeps

I was wondering if you would name some Russian player examples who are being lowballed? And how much they should be making per season?

I'm not suggesting that you can't do it but I think it would help put some meat on the bone of your complaint.

You already mentioned Kovalev and Semin getting lowballed. But Montreal paid Kovalev 4.5M. How much should he have got, 5.5M?,6M?

Semin got a crazy crazy crazy 6.7M from Washinton. How much should he have got, 8M?

For me 6.7M was too much.

Thanks in advance.

Of course, I am interested in everyone's input.

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