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2012-13 If I Were GM


BigTed3
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Would you guys trade Subban for the best dman in the league?

This is a flexible question. Best dman in the league is whoever you think is the best dman. Would you trade Subban for him straight up?

I would have to ask you why wouldn't you trade Subban for the best dman in the league? And to answer your question I say yes of course!

Here are my guys:

1. She Webber

2. Drew Doughty

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Well I consider the best D to be Weber, Doughty, and Chara in that order. I wouldn't trade him for Chara (due to age and Max Pacioretty), I would trade him for Weber provided we've got a long term contract worked out, and I would trade him straight up for Doughty with no hesition any day of the week. After those three, it's tough. I can't think of anyone else I'd do a straight up trade for at this point.

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I don't know if I'd trade straight up for best (at the present time) dman. Skill and accomplishments, Weber and Doughty have a leg up on PK. But we just saw this past season what happens when you have a skilled guy with an ego and attitude problems (Cammy).

It's taken a while, but Pk is settling down and I feel he's getting along much better with his teammates. You can have the best player in the world on your team, but if it messes with team dynamics, it can be a hindrance more than an asset.

I just re-watched the 2010 playoffs, wash/mtl game 6 on NHLnetwork.

Cammy was incredible!

He worked his but off and had generated a point in every game up to that point. What a difference to the cammy we saw this past season, he clearly had issues with the organization and had given up on the team.

In a team sport you need a good locker room presence. You need your players to be a team, not about individuals. You always run the risk of changing team dynamics bringing in new faces. Pk may not have the credentials that Doughty and Weber have, but he has matured and I'm seeing a real team 1st attitude from him. We finally got him where we want him, why risk changing all that for a player who has better stats at this point in their careers?

Also, we know PK grew up a hab fan. He loves the city, the organization and his teammates. I can't speak for the character of Weber and/or Doughty, but we may be dumping a player who wants to play most of his career here, for a guy who's on a 4 year plan.

I'd much rather have a guy with lower credentials (and still maturing)who's appreciated by his teammates, wants to be here for a long term stay, than a matured, proven player on a short term deal.

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Ryan would be great in our top 6. My only issue is, Pleks is such a versatile player and we'd have to acquire another player to fill the other roles that Pleks plays so well. Imo Pleks would be a very hard player to replace, he plays so many roles on this team it would be hard to find a player capable of filling all the roles Pleks did.

IMHO Eller can do what Pleks can, given the same linemates and ice time. Im not saying he will be quite as strong offensively (but neither was Tomas at Eller's age) but I have a hard time believing the defensive game would drop off that much between the two & I think Eller could come close to Tomas (maybe 50+) in points. If DD can maintain what he started last year (and hopefully build on it) and there's still an outside chance Galchenyuk makes this team out of training camp... who knows. My point is that its certainly conceivable that we could move Tomas (to upgrade in a position we are weak) and still be ok down the middle. At some point (maybe not for another year or so) we will have to address the logjam there.

The prudent side of me would say "lets wait until October & see what we're dealing with" but there's a real chance that a deal like Plekanec for Ryan may only exist in the summer months, not during the season, if Anaheim is trying to move him now.

Well I consider the best D to be Weber, Doughty, and Chara in that order. I wouldn't trade him for Chara (due to age and Max Pacioretty), I would trade him for Weber provided we've got a long term contract worked out, and I would trade him straight up for Doughty with no hesition any day of the week. After those three, it's tough. I can't think of anyone else I'd do a straight up trade for at this point.

Id agree with your logic on all of these. The one thing Id say about Keeping PK - even vs. someone like Doughy or (a signed) Weber is that "the known" factor has to be brought into play, especially when you're talking about high end talent. We know how PK plays here. We dont know how some of these other guys' games would translate in Montreal and thats always a bit scary when you're trading away solid talent.

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IMHO Eller can do what Pleks can, given the same linemates and ice time.

This is why Pleks is so undervalued. When people honestly think that Eller is in the same class as Pleks...he may be in 1 2 3 yrs or he may never be, he certainly isn't near Pleks now

Eller continues to make classic i am not sure what to do mistakes playing against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines, I am not sure how Eller can become the go to guy agianst the other teams best players night in and night out when he couldn't be a top player playing against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines.

I said it before and will say it again, other then one 4 goal game, he has shown one reason to even think he can score 20 in a season.

He continues to have brain cramps in the offensive zone, and is still unsure of himself in the defensive zone, may he become teh player people would like- ( sure he could ) is he near pleks at this time...not even close...

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This is why Pleks is so undervalued. When people honestly think that Eller is in the same class as Pleks...he may be in 1 2 3 yrs or he may never be, he certainly isn't near Pleks now

Eller continues to make classic i am not sure what to do mistakes playing against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines, I am not sure how Eller can become the go to guy agianst the other teams best players night in and night out when he couldn't be a top player playing against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines.

I said it before and will say it again, other then one 4 goal game, he has shown one reason to even think he can score 20 in a season.

He continues to have brain cramps in the offensive zone, and is still unsure of himself in the defensive zone, may he become teh player people would like- ( sure he could ) is he near pleks at this time...not even close...

I have to disagree on your outlook of Eller. Sure his offensive awareness is not the best just yet but he did have even worse wingers then Plekanec and rarely if ever got to see the PP. I am a big supporter of Plekanec and would not move him unless the return was Bobby Ryan and the only reasons I would do this is because we would be dealing from what in the future should be our strength in center position to pretty weak winger prospects. I don't think Eller himself could fill Plekanec's role but him + Ryan may be able to add even more in the future.

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I have to disagree on your outlook of Eller. Sure his offensive awareness is not the best just yet but he did have even worse wingers then Plekanec and rarely if ever got to see the PP. I am a big supporter of Plekanec and would not move him unless the return was Bobby Ryan and the only reasons I would do this is because we would be dealing from what in the future should be our strength in center position to pretty weak winger prospects. I don't think Eller himself could fill Plekanec's role but him + Ryan may be able to add even more in the future.

And there is a reason for limited power play time, beucase he played like a third line player and got third line minutes. Everytime they tried to bump him up he looked out of place...Do you really think coaches would hold back a 6.2 200 pound center if they thought he could be at or near what pleks is....

And as to being strong up the middle the only reason we may appear to be is because we have pleks and drafted a center third overall, i think Galy has all kind of skill, doens't mean a hill of beans until he can produce at the NHL level, DD is still small and easily knocked off the puck, Eller has not proen anything other then being a solid third line possible defensive center......

Two reason our PK was at or near the top while the rest of our game was horrible, Pleks and Price....

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I don't think Eller is gonna be able to replace Pleks yet, maybe never. But I think there is a chance that with linemates like Ryan and Gio his offensive game will come, defensive I don't know but I think he is capable of handling it, we will see mistakes for sure, but he has proven he is capable of being a good defensive center, but he won't be as good as Pleks of course. I'm not saying I would do that trade just saying we should consider it.

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And there is a reason for limited power play time, beucase he played like a third line player and got third line minutes. Everytime they tried to bump him up he looked out of place...Do you really think coaches would hold back a 6.2 200 pound center if they thought he could be at or near what pleks is....

And as to being strong up the middle the only reason we may appear to be is because we have pleks and drafted a center third overall, i think Galy has all kind of skill, doens't mean a hill of beans until he can produce at the NHL level, DD is still small and easily knocked off the puck, Eller has not proen anything other then being a solid third line possible defensive center......

Two reason our PK was at or near the top while the rest of our game was horrible, Pleks and Price....

He did look out of place on the second line because they had him on the wing. I remember a couple games when he was played between Patches and Cole and didn't look out a place at all. I really don't like the place Eller is in, in terms of opportunity for development. He is pretty well penciled in third line center and won't get more opportunity unless injury. And i'm not saying he will be as good as Plekanec what I am saying that the points Plekanec usually produces 50-70 will be replaced equally for a young big strong winger in Ryan who consistently scores 30+ a year.

And don't discount Eller on the pk he was a very big reason why it was so good as well. It takes 4 good pk forwards to succeed, it's not like a powerplay where your best can be on the ice the whole time it's short quick burst of ice time with rotating forwards.

I know what I am proposing would be a risk with the unproven young centers but it may be a risk worth taking when a player of Ryan's talent is available for the right price.

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I don't know if I'd trade straight up for best (at the present time) dman. Skill and accomplishments, Weber and Doughty have a leg up on PK. But we just saw this past season what happens when you have a skilled guy with an ego and attitude problems (Cammy).

It's taken a while, but Pk is settling down and I feel he's getting along much better with his teammates. You can have the best player in the world on your team, but if it messes with team dynamics, it can be a hindrance more than an asset.

I just re-watched the 2010 playoffs, wash/mtl game 6 on NHLnetwork.

Cammy was incredible!

He worked his but off and had generated a point in every game up to that point. What a difference to the cammy we saw this past season, he clearly had issues with the organization and had given up on the team.

In a team sport you need a good locker room presence. You need your players to be a team, not about individuals. You always run the risk of changing team dynamics bringing in new faces. Pk may not have the credentials that Doughty and Weber have, but he has matured and I'm seeing a real team 1st attitude from him. We finally got him where we want him, why risk changing all that for a player who has better stats at this point in their careers?

Also, we know PK grew up a hab fan. He loves the city, the organization and his teammates. I can't speak for the character of Weber and/or Doughty, but we may be dumping a player who wants to play most of his career here, for a guy who's on a 4 year plan.

I'd much rather have a guy with lower credentials (and still maturing)who's appreciated by his teammates, wants to be here for a long term stay, than a matured, proven player on a short term deal.

I don't know. You could say that Moen wanted to play here all his life and loves it here and everything. But I am sure you wouldn't give it a second thought if we traded him for Malkin. I know the example is an extreme one, but what you said applies to every player.

I know that chemistry is a big deal, but on the same token you don't know that the other players mentioned may be even a better fit for MON. Sure it's a gamble, but the whole season is one big crap-shoot when you take into account injuries and line changes. Weber and Doughty are playing on great teams, yet amongst great players they are still at the top. When the question is a trade for the "best dman in the league" I don't even give it a microsecond of thought. I do the deal.

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Are we perhaps overvaluing P.K. Subban here? I am sure there are better defencemen out there than just Drew Doughty, Shea Weber, or Alex Pietrangelo that we would trade him for. I know he's young and could be a top defensive talent in the league, but there a lot of good defenders out there on other teams. Ryan Suter, for instance, who we just missed out on. Zdeno Chara, Dan Boyle, Brent Seabrook, Duncan Keith, Kimmo Timonen, Kris Letang, Marc Staal, Erik Karlsson, Lubomir Visnovsky, Keith Yandle, etc.

Funny question.

Would you trade P.K. Subban for Ryan McDonagh?

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Are we perhaps overvaluing P.K. Subban here? I am sure there are better defencemen out there than just Drew Doughty, Shea Weber, or Alex Pietrangelo that we would trade him for. I know he's young and could be a top defensive talent in the league, but there a lot of good defenders out there on other teams. Ryan Suter, for instance, who we just missed out on. Zdeno Chara, Dan Boyle, Brent Seabrook, Duncan Keith, Kimmo Timonen, Kris Letang, Marc Staal, Erik Karlsson, Lubomir Visnovsky, Keith Yandle, etc.

Funny question.

Would you trade P.K. Subban for Ryan McDonagh?

I had totally forgotten about Erik Karlsson! There's another name I'd add to the list to trade for. Yandle maybe. But the other guys are getting a little long in the tooth or are not that much better than PK..

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Are we perhaps overvaluing P.K. Subban here? I am sure there are better defencemen out there than just Drew Doughty, Shea Weber, or Alex Pietrangelo that we would trade him for. I know he's young and could be a top defensive talent in the league, but there a lot of good defenders out there on other teams. Ryan Suter, for instance, who we just missed out on. Zdeno Chara, Dan Boyle, Brent Seabrook, Duncan Keith, Kimmo Timonen, Kris Letang, Marc Staal, Erik Karlsson, Lubomir Visnovsky, Keith Yandle, etc.

Funny question.

Would you trade P.K. Subban for Ryan McDonagh?

I wouldn't trade P.K. for most guys on that list because of their age. When I look at where this team is at, I want a young guy that we can get all the best years out of. If we were a contender who was one piece away, maybe my perspective would be different.

Would I trade Subban for Ryan McDonagh? No I wouldn't. I would trade Scott Gomez and Tom Pyatt for him though. <_<

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Trades don't always go as planned. Gainey got abuse for the Gomez/McDonagh but no credit for the Rivet & 5th rd pick Julien Demers for Gorges and 1st rd pick Pacioretty.

Did Gainey's abuse start at the beginning of the trade or only after Gomez didn't produce? If we could cancel both trades and keep Higgins, McDonagh, Valentenko and Rivet would you be happy?

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Are we perhaps overvaluing P.K. Subban here? I am sure there are better defencemen out there than just Drew Doughty, Shea Weber, or Alex Pietrangelo that we would trade him for. I know he's young and could be a top defensive talent in the league, but there a lot of good defenders out there on other teams. Ryan Suter, for instance, who we just missed out on. Zdeno Chara, Dan Boyle, Brent Seabrook, Duncan Keith, Kimmo Timonen, Kris Letang, Marc Staal, Erik Karlsson, Lubomir Visnovsky, Keith Yandle, etc.

Funny question.

Would you trade P.K. Subban for Ryan McDonagh?

Suter has a bad contract and is just a 40-50 point D that is good defensively(which I think Subban will be next season) and he is 4 years older as well. Chara is too old. Boyle is too old. Seabrook and Keith are coming off bad seasons and I'm sure PK will be better than them soon,maybe even this upcoming season. Timonen, and Visnovsky are too one dimensional. Subban is better than Staal. Letang has injury issues and even than, I think Subban will be better soon. Obviously not for McDonagh. Yandle...I think Subban will be better than him as well. Karlsson is interesting but I prefer two-way Subban than one-way Karlsson, even though Karlsson is awesome offensively.

Trades don't always go as planned. Gainey got abuse for the Gomez/McDonagh but no credit for the Rivet & 5th rd pick Julien Demers for Gorges and 1st rd pick Pacioretty.

Did Gainey's abuse start at the beginning of the trade or only after Gomez didn't produce? If we could cancel both trades and keep Higgins, McDonagh, Valentenko and Rivet would you be happy?

It's not just that one trade that was bad.

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This is why Pleks is so undervalued. When people honestly think that Eller is in the same class as Pleks...he may be in 1 2 3 yrs or he may never be, he certainly isn't near Pleks now

Eller continues to make classic i am not sure what to do mistakes playing against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines, I am not sure how Eller can become the go to guy agianst the other teams best players night in and night out when he couldn't be a top player playing against the other teams 3rd and 4th lines.

I said it before and will say it again, other then one 4 goal game, he has shown one reason to even think he can score 20 in a season.

He continues to have brain cramps in the offensive zone, and is still unsure of himself in the defensive zone, may he become teh player people would like- ( sure he could ) is he near pleks at this time...not even close...

Until Eller is given a chance with proper ice time, consistent linemates and actual PP time, i think its crazy to suggest you have a crystal ball saying he cant. He's got great vision and has clearly shown he's one of our best defensive forwards. He got 1 game with quality linemates all year (when DD was out for ) and he did not look out of place at all.

We will have to agree to disagree until Lars can prove one of us right - assuming he gets a chance! :)

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Yeah, I assumed you just put that there for giggles :D

Nope. I was being serious. I think we overvalue P.K. Subban. He's the best defenceman we have on our team, but McDonagh certainly looked excellent for NY last season too. He may not have the offensive upside the P.K. has, but I think it's entirely possible he will be better in his own end than P.K. will.

Too bad we didn't have both. :(

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