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2012-13 Habs Rumors


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Not sure that makes sense for us, unless we're going to trade Gionta? Unlikely.

It mentioned Bourque + Weber/Diaz which feels like an absolute pipe dream. The only "sources" I could find online were sketchy. If San Jose were to get Nash, it would make sense for them to move a Marleau or Havlat, but not for a iffy contract like Bourque.

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It mentioned Bourque + Weber/Diaz which feels like an absolute pipe dream. The only "sources" I could find online were sketchy. If San Jose were to get Nash, it would make sense for them to move a Marleau or Havlat, but not for a iffy contract like Bourque.

Havlat for Bourque and Weber/Diaz? I'd do this in a heartbeat. Havlat's production dropped off last year but he's a legit top 6 guy who's way more skilled than Bourque. Don't really like the Cap hit but we do have room I suppose. Can Havlat play LW though? I remember him playing mostly on the right side in Chicago.

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If San Jose trades us Havlat for Bourque and Weber/Diaz, I will, to quote a famous person on this forum, eat my pants.

No way San Jose makes that deal.

We can't be so certain that they won't make this trade. Value wise, it is a trade beneficial to Montreal, but if you consider the salary cap, i think the trade is fair value, for both teams. If he was a left winger i would do it in a heart bit, but now since he is a righty, where will he play? At the 3rd line behind Cole and Gionta? I guess Bourque, because of his size, suits this spot better.

I would definitely inquire about Marleau though. If they want Bourque (i actually think a lot of Western teams would like him) lets make a package with Bourque for him.

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We can't be so certain that they won't make this trade. Value wise, it is a trade beneficial to Montreal, but if you consider the salary cap, i think the trade is fair value, for both teams.

I can't agree. Yes, Bourque has a lower cap hit, but it doesn't off-set the significant gap in talent between Bourque and Havlat. I mean, if we only used cap hits to balance out value in a trade, flipping Evgeni Malkin for Erik Cole would be a fair deal, because Cole's cap hit is significantly lower. Bluntly, San Jose could do far better than Bourque + Weber/Diaz on the trade market.

If he was a left winger i would do it in a heart bit, but now since he is a righty, where will he play? At the 3rd line behind Cole and Gionta? I guess Bourque, because of his size, suits this spot better.

We get too hung up on handedness TBH. You trade for quality and sort out wings and handedness later. If you have a chance to land a top-end talent, you don't hesitate because he's a right-handed shot. If anything, Havlat would be accustomed to playing 'Euro' style -- playing left wing as a right-handed shot so he gets better shooting angles from the middle of the ice.

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If San Jose trades us Havlat for Bourque and Weber/Diaz, I will, to quote a famous person on this forum, eat my pants.

No way San Jose makes that deal.

Be careful, Weep. Accepting the responsibility to eat ones pants is not to be taken lightly. :lol:

I can't agree. Yes, Bourque has a lower cap hit, but it doesn't off-set the significant gap in talent between Bourque and Havlat. I mean, if we only used cap hits to balance out value in a trade, flipping Evgeni Malkin for Erik Cole would be a fair deal, because Cole's cap hit is significantly lower. Bluntly, San Jose could do far better than Bourque + Weber/Diaz on the trade market.

If we wanted Havlat (who I've heard loves Montreal), we'd probably have to give up more than Bourque and Weber (or Diaz). It'd probably be more like Bourque, Weber, AND a prospect.

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I can't agree. Yes, Bourque has a lower cap hit, but it doesn't off-set the significant gap in talent between Bourque and Havlat. I mean, if we only used cap hits to balance out value in a trade, flipping Evgeni Malkin for Erik Cole would be a fair deal, because Cole's cap hit is significantly lower. Bluntly, San Jose could do far better than Bourque + Weber/Diaz on the trade market.

We get too hung up on handedness TBH. You trade for quality and sort out wings and handedness later. If you have a chance to land a top-end talent, you don't hesitate because he's a right-handed shot. If anything, Havlat would be accustomed to playing 'Euro' style -- playing left wing as a right-handed shot so he gets better shooting angles from the middle of the ice.

Take off the last year statistics for both players, and see the last three years in production, and finding a significant gap in talent between them, is absurd. Yes Havlat is a better passer, but thats just it. So i guess he sees the ice better and make his teammates better, it is that worth 5M. I guess you find Ville Leino also extremely talented.

As for the salary cap fair value. You should read the posts thoroughly, and avoid jumping in conclusions. Havlat is about to earn 5M for 3 more years (15M total). Bourque is about to earn 3,33M for 4 more years (13,2M total). Add the 850K of Weber's salary and its almost a salary swap. How this has anything to do with Malkin's and Cole's salary, is beyond me...

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You would have to add to Bourque for sure but he could certainly be a piece going that way as part of a package. I mean Havlat's current value is probably not substantially higher than Cammy's was when we made our deal. Bourque's was higher at that point unfortunately.

Also, Havlat is a right winger but I think he's played both sides. At least I could swear I remember him being RW/LW eligible in my Yahoo fantasy league a few years back. :P

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Why are we "Taking last year" off the books? Havlat put up more points in under half the games Bourque did. Even doing that, Havlat outproduced Bourque over the time period you mentioned. Havlat's not a superstar, but he's not on Bourque's level either.

If the rumor is to be believed, the Sharks are looking for cap relief to make a bigger move, right? Taking on salary doesn't make sense from their position. I think it's possible that Bourque could be apart of 'this' deal but we'd have to throw in a quality prospect at the very least. As Weep mentioned this is San José's prom and they get to invite anyone they want to the dance, and I can't believe of the twenty nine other teams not one of them has interest and a better deal than the one suggested.

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Why are we "Taking last year" off the books? Havlat put up more points in under half the games Bourque did. Even doing that, Havlat outproduced Bourque over the time period you mentioned. Havlat's not a superstar, but he's not on Bourque's level either.

If the rumor is to be believed, the Sharks are looking for cap relief to make a bigger move, right? Taking on salary doesn't make sense from their position. I think it's possible that Bourque could be apart of 'this' deal but we'd have to throw in a quality prospect at the very least. As Weep mentioned this is San José's prom and they get to invite anyone they want to the dance, and I can't believe of the twenty nine other teams not one of them has interest and a better deal than the one suggested.

Weeps, is that you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously now, name me one team, willing to take Havlat's salary off SJS hands...There is not even ONE post at the fans forums that indicates they want him in their team...and i am quite a follower...

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I can't speak for any team or GM in the league. I'm simply a fan like the rest of us here. But I can't buy the suggestion that Havlat is unmovable due to his salary. There's a couple of teams sitting here brainstorming that I'd think would have interest in a guy like Havlat - but you want one team right? How about Toronto? If we take Burke at his word he's going to attempt van Riemsdyk at center, and as such they're in need of a second line winger and have the cap to take on a contract. Why not one of the floor teams like the Islanders or Panthers? Fan opinions don't mean anything when it comes to acquiring assets.

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Weeps, is that you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously now, name me one team, willing to take Havlat's salary off SJS hands...There is not even ONE post at the fans forums that indicates they want him in their team...and i am quite a follower...

I could name about 25 teams that would take Havlet for $5 mill 3 years and the other 5 just could not fit him under the cap. His name and Bourque's name should never, never be mentioned in the same sentence talent wise. The only thing that has ever held him back from being one of the leagues elite wingers is injuries. These are really foolish trade rumors that have probably been made up from some hopeful fan.

Havlet for Bourque and Diaz is so far off a good value trade it's not even funny and I will eat my own shoes if this was ever accepted, he would instantly become our best player. So in essence you trade a #1 winger for a guy who we don't want on our second line wing and a 6th defenseman to save less than $1 million I could make offers from other teams so easily that are better than this.

sorry for the aggressiveness.

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I could name about 25 teams that would take Havlet for $5 mill 3 years and the other 5 just could not fit him under the cap. His name and Bourque's name should never, never be mentioned in the same sentence talent wise. The only thing that has ever held him back from being one of the leagues elite wingers is injuries. These are really foolish trade rumors that have probably been made up from some hopeful fan.

Havlet for Bourque and Diaz is so far off a good value trade it's not even funny and I will eat my own shoes if this was ever accepted, he would instantly become our best player. So in essence you trade a #1 winger for a guy who we don't want on our second line wing and a 6th defenseman to save less than $1 million I could make offers from other teams so easily that are better than this.

sorry for the aggressiveness.

I agree with you in principal on the descrepancy in values (just maybe not quite to the same extreme), and it's sure making the Cammy for Bourque deal look idiotic.

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The Sharks want Eller instead of Bourque but MB doesnt want to give up Eller. HE has countered with Bourque,Weber/Diaz and a draft pick? The source isnt rock solid but it seems to be getting some more backing? On another rumor is that MB is interested in Chicago.Suprise suprise. First Kane was inquired about and the same with Sharp. It sounds like MB is in discusions for Bolland and Hjalmarsson. The Chicago rumors are starting to pick up but the SJ rumors seem like they are pretty legit?

A former 25+ goal scorer and a young defenceman and a draft pick for an often injured top 6 winger seems reasonable...

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The Sharks want Eller instead of Bourque but MB doesnt want to give up Eller. HE has countered with Bourque,Weber/Diaz and a draft pick? The source isnt rock solid but it seems to be getting some more backing? On another rumor is that MB is interested in Chicago.Suprise suprise. First Kane was inquired about and the same with Sharp. It sounds like MB is in discusions for Bolland and Hjalmarsson. The Chicago rumors are starting to pick up but the SJ rumors seem like they are pretty legit?

A former 25+ goal scorer and a young defenceman and a draft pick for an often injured top 6 winger seems reasonable...

Who from San Jose is rumored?

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Who from San Jose is rumored?

Havlat

The Sharks want Eller instead of Bourque but MB doesnt want to give up Eller. HE has countered with Bourque,Weber/Diaz and a draft pick? The source isnt rock solid but it seems to be getting some more backing? On another rumor is that MB is interested in Chicago.Suprise suprise. First Kane was inquired about and the same with Sharp. It sounds like MB is in discusions for Bolland and Hjalmarsson. The Chicago rumors are starting to pick up but the SJ rumors seem like they are pretty legit?

A former 25+ goal scorer and a young defenceman and a draft pick for an often injured top 6 winger seems reasonable...

If it is true. I can see one reason for wanting Eller. Trade bait.

San Jose are one of the teams in on Nash and Colombus wants players and prospects and picks. Well eller is a good center top six nhl prospect/player.

IT would free up capspace and give them something of value to trade.

Which is why i wouldn't do it.

Eller >> Havlat

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Take off the last year statistics for both players, and see the last three years in production, and finding a significant gap in talent between them, is absurd. Yes Havlat is a better passer, but thats just it. So i guess he sees the ice better and make his teammates better, it is that worth 5M. I guess you find Ville Leino also extremely talented.

There's no comparison between talent levels. Havlat is a superior passer, skater, and shooter, incidentally. He's matched or topped Bourque's best per-season goal totals (31 goals in 03-04, 29 goals in 08-09). Over the last few years, Bourque has posted 6, 23, 31, 19, 14, 10, and 18 assists, with having played 70+ games in at least four of those seasons. Havlat, since the lockout, has posted 20, 40, 36, 48, 17, 32, and 7 assists, with the 17 and 7 coming in years when he missed most of the season due to injury and only played in a handful of games. His vision is demonstrably superior to Bourque's -- we're not talking about a few points' difference in assists, we're talking about a player who posts vastly superior point totals within comparable numbers of games played. It's not even close.

As for the salary cap fair value. You should read the posts thoroughly, and avoid jumping in conclusions. Havlat is about to earn 5M for 3 more years (15M total). Bourque is about to earn 3,33M for 4 more years (13,2M total). Add the 850K of Weber's salary and its almost a salary swap. How this has anything to do with Malkin's and Cole's salary, is beyond me...

I read it fine the first time. The main problem, as I said, is that you are only using salary as the measure of whether the deal is fair value. If I add up 9 journeymen players at $1 million each, do they represent fair value for Sidney Crosby because his cap hit is $9 million? If you have a player of superior talent and you're looking to unload him -- in Havlat's case, he hasn't been able to stay healthy, that's the big knock on him -- you're not going to accept a fringe top-six forward and two marginal D prospects in a trade if their accumulated cap hit / term is close to what you want to get rid of. If anything, you DON'T want a salary swap, you want to free up that space by acquiring futures and entry-level prospects only. If you're going to take on what amounts to a salary swap -- Bourque's cap hit is less than Havlat's but he's signed for one more year -- it had better be for a player of the same caliber, and they flat-out aren't the same caliber.

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I believe the source for both the Havlat trade and the Bolland/Hjalmarsson trade are from @HockeyyInsiderr on twitter. He seems to be a pretty legit source, he's announced signings before even Dreger so far.

The tweet read: "On #SJSharks and #Habs: Hearing Havlat closer to MTL tonight then yesterday. SJ could take Bourque+Diaz/Weber+pick as per source. #Canadiens"

Next year's draft is said to be one of the best drafts since 2003, so the pick definitely makes more sense, but you never really know who really could be involved.

The tweet about Chicago read: "Wouldn't be surprised to see Bergevin deal with #Blackhawks. Sources confirm he likes Bolland and Hjalmarsson. #Habs #Canadiens"

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I believe the source for both the Havlat trade and the Bolland/Hjalmarsson trade are from @HockeyyInsiderr on twitter. He seems to be a pretty legit source, he's announced signings before even Dreger so far.

The tweet read: "On #SJSharks and #Habs: Hearing Havlat closer to MTL tonight then yesterday. SJ could take Bourque+Diaz/Weber+pick as per source. #Canadiens"

Next year's draft is said to be one of the best drafts since 2003, so the pick definitely makes more sense, but you never really know who really could be involved.

The tweet about Chicago read: "Wouldn't be surprised to see Bergevin deal with #Blackhawks. Sources confirm he likes Bolland and Hjalmarsson. #Habs #Canadiens"

If we get Havlat for anything similar to that package I'll be ecstatic. I suppose the pick can make a big difference in there depending how high.

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