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Post of the day 2012-2013

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Best first post ever? :lol:

I'd like to weigh in on this discussion with a few notes:

To start- yes, that Left Wing is a big hole. I know Bergevin comes from an organization where cap creativity was common, but at the same time I'm not sure if he's willing to make the 'big move' to fill that hole (Lets be honest, the big 'Star' Left Winger which would made an immediate impact isn't coming from this FA-Crop, barring some amazing convincing by Bergevin on bringing down Semin's price and term- and to be honest, I wouldn't MIND taking a look at Semin, despite having had such a good view of his faltering in the 7 games we played against him not too long ago post season.) I'm not sure what we would have to give up to get that big LW, as I'm not sure of how talented and confident Bergevin is. In a city like Montreal where the slightest INKLING of a player who appears to have been a bad deal (See: Cole in first 20 games of last season), it'd take some real cahoonas for him to make a big splash in the trade market with out prospects.

That said, I'd be impressed if he did, as I like to see my team win. Assessment year or not, '15-'20 Dynasty or not- this franchise isn't Toronto, they won't put up with mediocre for long. Not only that, but the players aren't going to stand for a half-arsed season either. This is a proud franchise, which was missing a hell of a lot of stability and pride last year, and if Bergevin makes a big move which he feels helps restore the pride to some degree this year then I'm fine with him trying, and I'm not going to throw him under the bus 30 games in if it hasn't panned out- so long as it's done before training camp so the guys can get to work immediately on a feeling of stability and cohesiveness.

If no LW is brought in who has legitimate talent and desire to be a piece of our top six, then I'm not sure what I want to see on line two- if Bourque can come back to form he's fine there for a season, allowing Eller to develop on #3 C, if not, I'm not AGAINST Eller centering L2 if Pleks is willing to take a wing, but I'd want some sort of commitment from the coaching staff on giving him a proper chance to hold it (I.E. not throwing him onto line four every game he makes a mistake- mistakes are how you learn, and you need to be given the chance to make them to become a better hockey player, instead of being tossed down to the checking line where your offense can't develop (See: The ridiculous treatment of Stamkos a few years back, or from a defense point of view Subban, who makes mistakes every night and shines through better later.) Hell, if Toronto had left Kadri up and let him make some mistakes he may very well be a shining top 6 himself by now.

As for the defense, I'm not entirely sure why everyone is QUITE as negative as they are. Here's my summary of how I think it looks:

Subban: As I said earlier, makes mistakes, but is getting better and better. With a year under his belt of being the real and only 'go to guy,' playing in every role in his position, this guy is a huge piece of our puzzle going forward, and a true top 2 defense man.

Gorges: Top tier shut-down defense man- +14 on a 15th place team, and leading shot blocker with 50 more than the next closest- say what you want about the amount of shots heading towards the goalie that he had to block helping him get that high, when it's 125% the next closest in the category, you're the best at it, period. One of the top 4 guys you need to be successful.

Markov: Really think people need to give him a break. Wasn't his normal self after a couple seasons off coming into a roster of players closing out the end of a horrible season, and it's surprising his points per game weren't up to snub? If he's even 1/2 the player he was before hand then he's a solid top four who can also help IMMENSELY in developing our younger defense men. If he's 3/4 what he was before he's a top four who can log the minutes of time where the north south forwards who played best for us last year (Cole/Patches) get the great first pass they need to break out. Markov's talent has never been 'super-in shape young defense', it's been 'amazing hockey sense and a fantastic distribution pass on the pp, as well as the knowledge of when to pinch in or rush the net on the pp for the extra body.' Last I checked hockey sense didn't dissappear over time for smart defense men, and quarterbacking a powerplay involves a need to have been playing/practicing with that powerplay for a good amount of time to get into a rhythm of knowing your forwards and where they'll be. Give him a training camp and regular play with the PP again and I don't think the Markov you'll see will be dramatically different from the one you used to see. Feel free to disagree though.

Emelin: Not top 4 ready yet, but the way he makes you think before you go free willing into our zone makes him a good guy to have in the lineup, and a player who with improvement is a good fit on any team.

Kaberle: I'm not a fan of the trade either, but I'll be honest, I'm not as disgusted and negative as some. I'm really not sure what stats some people have been looking at, but let me throw a few facts at you. Since arriving in Montreal, Kaberle put up 22pts (3G/19A) in 43GP- that equates too a 42pts (6G/36A) Season over 82 games- that's only a couple pts back from the most reason good seasons he had in Toronto when he was considered a high quality defense- and did that point/per/game average whilst being given about 6-7min less ice time per game than he got a few seasons ago. Oh and by the way, thats more pt/per/game average than Matt Carle- and while Carle is 'better' than Kaberle defensively, he's also now making a couple million more than Kaberle, and isn't exactly a huge hitter/shot blocker/defense smart super star either. I'm NOT saying Kaberle is amazing- but I'm not sure what NHL a potential 42pt defense man is a terrible player in.

The rest of the D-core is young talent (Other than our extra man Boullion, who by the way is a fine 5-6th defenseman statistically in the NHL, and is as mean and hard to play against as any 6'3'' 220lber, in case everyone has forgotten.

Disagree/counter argue or not, I really don't see our defense core- which by the way has a plethora of young talent only a year or two away from NHL readiness which will need room to grow into- as as troublesome as some think.

I've a lot more to say, but I think I owe you all a dinner for that long of a read anyway- so I'll wait!


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  • 2 months later...
Guest habs1952

I recently had a strange dream.

Lisa Raitt had a press conference announcing that "NHL Regular season games work stoppage is not in the best interests of the Canadian public or Canadian businesses" She immediately tabled back-to-work legislation that would be binding to the Canadian franchises of the NHL.

The legislation also provided the formation of a new league called the Premier Hockey League and included the appointment of Steve Yzerman as its new Commissioner. A new schedule of games was devised for the 7 teams. There were also provisions in the Act that devised a constitution for the league that included the option of the original 6 American franchises to join the league without franchise fees but do so these teams would have to cut all ties with the NHL. The constitution of the league also stipulated that any other U.S. city franchise wanting to join would have to go through a strict process of evaluation and could only be authorized by the Board of Governors of the PHL...

And before I woke up, the Canadian authorities were trying to seize the Stanley Cup from the LA Kings organization. It was a strange scene that had Dustin Brown driving a white SUV down a LA freeway (with Gary Bettman riding shotgun with the Cup in his white-gloved hands) with a large group of Mounties dressed in their Red Serges chasing them on horseback and Danny Gallivan doing the whole play by play of it from a Hockey Night in Canada helicopter flying above...

This lock-out is starting to get to my sub-conscious; I lived in Europe during the last one so I really did not realize how much of a fan of the game I really am till now.

I should have dreams such as this!

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  • 4 months later...

From the Subban thread, I completely agree with Jeff's perspective on the Subban 'story' created by TSN/RDS.

want an explanation for the mixed reaction?

the media, desperate for a scandal, choose to ignore our shockingly good start and ask the guys about pk. you think they like that?

look what markov said. "ask me questions about tonights game and tomorrows game only please" and then they STILL push it!

then go look at the morons posting comments on tsn...."you can see markov hates him! hes a cancer!" of course marky is annoyed, why is he being asked soap opera stupid questions?

thats the picture these vulture sensationalists are trying to paint, and they did a good job

fwiw i think pk should have signed from day 1, i dont like it that he sat. but wow, the hyperbole and the forced drama are incredible.

pk will reintegrate himself by playing hard and helping us win. a team respects each other by the work they do as a team. if he comes in and performs, this will all be forgotten fast

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest habs1952

What is going on with 123 and Hydrostatic,,,,,this is just insane, and must be rectified. :rolleyes:

Just start posting more correct answers :P:lol:

Maybe if you posted the right questions,,,,then we would get more answers right. :rolleyes::P

From the 'Predictions' thread. This made my day.

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I think the team isn't in the position of "we need to find a way to get rid of <<insert player name>>" anymore. It's been a while we have not seen a roster without glaringly bad contracts or under-achievers or bad apples etc. As fans, we're not used to that and we should learn to move away from the "who's next to go" point of view. I believe that the next moves Bergevin will make (whenever that may be) will be the result of looking for additions to improve the team and the guys leaving will be the cost of those additions and not the result of looking to dump them. In short, we're becoming buyers, not sellers. Gionta is not going anywhere this year imo.

CRB in the Bergevin thread. Beacause, hey, she's right! :)

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From the Therrien thread:

Subban up near 27 minutes last night, nice to see. He can legitimately handle that. Markov over 27 minutes and not only do I worry about him breaking down going forward but I think he's looked pretty bad 5 on 5 as it is so I'm just not seeing it. Bouillon and Kaberle were both under 13 minutes. Interesting distribution to say the least. It's usually be pretty even.

No problem with that aspect of it, playing 2 of your top 6 DMen that sparingly is unsustainable over the full season but in Boston in a big game, no problem with bench shortening at all.

I just really can't figure out the Markov stuff, especially all the ES minutes. He's not our best DMan at ES.

Anyway, the system has worked to perfection basically. We've gotten away from it a bit this weekend, especially against Pittsburgh but I feel less and less like this is a mirage and more like we're just a good team. Not to say we'll be 14-4-4 in our next 22 games but I don't think we'll be 4-18 either. I think strong play is sustainable from this team. I don't think we have a whole whack of guys playing over their heads. Exciting. Kudos to Therrien.

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From last nights GDT...( Habs/Bruins)

The Bruins can say whatever they want after the game. It only embarrasses them.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Another weeps classic...

I hope everyone, including Bananaphone, knows that this is all in good fun. I really appreciate it when someone takes the time to fashion a lengthy, thoughtful response to an opinion of mine. It would be ultra-boring if we all agreed all the time. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Graeme on Kaberle's place with the team now that Emelin is out for the year:

Alright, time to bring him out of the press-box. 2 of our main dmen are injured and we don't exactly have great depth.

Is there a risk he gets injured and we can't buy him out? Yes. Is that risk high? No, he's not particularly injury prone. If it does happen is it catastrophic for our team? No, we don't really need the cap space and preserving the buyout to have an option the next summer wouldn't be terrible.

Is there a bigger risk? Yes, that arguably the best Habs team since '93 gets knocked out the playoffs early because we were so afraid of not being able to perform a buyout that wasn't all that critical to begin with.

Good management is all about balancing risks, and if we refuse to play Kaberle, we aren't balancing those risks well.

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From the Carey Price thread. Well said Manatee.

So what's going to happen next time Price gets a shutout, is everyone going to be back in here raving about our goalie superstar? :P

Let me be clear: in general, Price hasn't lived up to his contract this year. He hasn't been a bad goalie by any stretch, but when you're being paid as one of the best players at your position you need to deliver one of the best performances at your position. So yes, I understand that he needs to do better.

But it's still kind of funny that after the loss to the Leafs everyone's in here talking as though they've been on his case all year long. Relax, folks, stuff happens. There's no need to pile on him after one (admittedly very bad) game. Yes I'd like to see him play better, but I don't think he's suddenly a huge danger to our playoff hopes just because he got shelled.

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Guest habs1952

Have to disagree with you here, Manatee, not because I don't support your (very reasonable) calls for moderation in terms of criticizing Carey, but because this isn't just about one bad game. Yes, he is a danger to our playoff hopes. We're a handful of games from the end of the season, and our star goalie hasn't been playing like a star almost the whole way through. The basic stats are padding him in a serious way: he's given up many soft goals on a fairly regular basis, he's not playing large in his net, he looks unfocused and unprepared, and he's posted wins mainly because the team, for once, is actually scoring lots of goals. I can count the number of games in which he's been the difference-maker on one hand and still have fingers to spare. It's not even that we need him to stand on his head; in the postseason, we'll need him to make the stops he should make, and get hot for a game here and there within a small sample size, stealing, let's say, a game 6 we have no business otherwise winning. That's the playoffs. Your goalie shouldn't and can't carry you the whole way, but he has to bail you out at least some of the time. Right now, I have absolutely no confidence in Carey's ability to step up, because his performance this season has been mediocre.

I'm not a fan of chicken little reactions to recent events, but in Carey's case, I'd say fans have every right to be concerned, because the Leafs game is only the latest and worst symptom of a bad pattern that has persisted the whole year.

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After the brutal leafs/philly losses ...

Since they clinched the spot, their intensity, concentration and work ethic levels have dropped markedly “with the results we see.

It’s not complicated,” Canadiens coach Michel Therrien said after the Philadelphia Flyers handily beat the Habs 7-3.

“There’s no work ethic out there right now. We don’t pay attention to detail. It’s disappointing,” Therrien said.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just got to this post now, and its fantastic. Sums up the head problems in the NHL, uses a great analogy. Very well thought out and written beautifully. Explains why I think White should have gotten closer to 10 along with every other suspension this year.

There's not much that I can add to BigTed's excellent reply, except to say that I feel that your last sentence here is dead wrong.

Yes, it's true that as a Habs fan I'm upset that one of our most important players will probably miss a substantial amount of time. But more importantly, as a human being I'm upset to see a young man lying on the ice, out cold and bleeding from his head. This doesn't change, and it doesn't matter if the player in question plays for the Habs or the Sharks or the Leafs.

Have a look in the "around the league" subforum, where there's a topic on hits to the head. A lot of the complaints written in this topic are mirrored there regarding the Ference hit on Grabovski the other night - and trust me, if you've followed the NHL in the last five years or so you'll know that there aren't many players that Habs fans have more cause to dislike than Grabovski. It's not just about one player or one team, it's about getting this nonsense out of the sport.

From a hockey standpoint nobody on the Habs really cares if Gryba gets a suspension. I had never heard of the guy before last night, and I don't think that it's a stretch to say that not much is going to change if another depth defenceman takes his spot in the lineup. The reason people are calling for a suspension is because we don't want to see players continue to get badly injured in preventable situations, and the feeling is that if the league ever got serious about protecting their players and gave out some big suspensions that it might actually have some effect on curbing the problem.

It's really easy to say that Eller "had his head down". Blaming the victim is a pretty tired cliche, especially in a case like this where Eller had literally zero time to react. I don't care if you're the most aware player in the league, you still have to look behind you to get a pass like that and you're not going to see someone making a run at you from the other side of the ice. If you're Gryba and you really want to take the guy out of the play then throw a hip check and be done with it. Same result, no head trauma.

This post is getting long, but I also just want to say that I couldn't care less about exactly where the first point of contact was or about whether it was Gryba's elbow or the fall to the ice that did most of the damage. The fact is that by taking that kind of run at someone in a vulnerable spot, Gryba put himself in a position where there was a high probability of him giving the other guy a serious injury.

Ted used a metaphor about running a red light, but I think this actually has more in common with drunk driving. Just because you're driving drunk doesn't mean that something bad is going to happen: most times you probably get home without incident, a small percentage of the time you're in a fender bender, and every now and again someone gets seriously injured or killed. But we've recognized as a society that it's not good enough to just throw the guy in jail who caused an accident - if you want to actually get to the root of the problem it's the risky behaviour that needs to be curtailed. Society has tackled that problem on two fronts:

1) We now penalize the offenders legally by making it a crime to drive drunk, regardless of whether you actually hurt anyone.

2) We penalize the offenders socially. The whole 'friends don't let friends drink and drive' slogan has probably done more to prevent drunk driving fatalities than all the laws in the world. In most circles it's socially unacceptable to drive anywhere drunk, and it's this social pressure (not the pressure from the law) that people really feel in the instant when they're making the decision whether or not to call a cab.

IMO the NHL needs both of these things. We need to start suspending the guys who do these dangerous hits, regardless of which team they're on and regardless of the outcome. I don't care if their name is Gryba or Chara or Ryan White, everyone needs to know that if you line someone up and follow through when they're in a vulnerable position that you're liable to be punished. Even more important than that, though, is that we need to change the culture. Guys need to speak out against players who do this, even if that player is on your own team. That's why everyone here is so upset about the Sens' coach and players calling this a clean hit.

Teammates don't let teammates hit others in the head.

Guess that's why you're the new Mod, Manatee. ;)

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I really think a lot of people forget what league the Canadiens play in.

It's the NHL. The league that's had three seasons impacted by labour issues in twenty years, and one cancelled. The league that has so many failed or failing teams limping along and depressing league revenues so much that it's almost totally handcuffed by it. The league that above all else values manufactured "parity" through three-point games, arcane tie-breaker rules, a salary cap that severely punishes the successful, and ludicrous rules and officiating designed to artificially tighten games and series. The league that's had endless problems and scandals in its front office that remove any shreds of credibility from its actions in hockey operations. The league that makes most of its money off teams from one country, then completely ignores it and launders that money in an attempt to placate anemic and fickle markets in another that still don't pay attention or care.

It's the salary cap era NHL. The Bettman/Jacobs/Snyder NHL. The "Two teams in Florida? What could possibly go wrong!" NHL. The Colin Campbell NHL. That's the league this team plays in.

The best and brightest GMs and coaches in the NHL with the league's marquee talent can't guarantee regular season success, let alone postseason success. If Pittsburgh and Chicago can't be consistent and build a dynasty, or even sustained success, why do people think we're going to do it overnight? They think it because they remember the good old days. Well, they're dead. This is reality today. Every single one of our prospects and rookies could turn into superstars and we could still fail to make it out of the first round for the next decade. Or we could make the finals every year for the next six straight and lose every single time.

An eight seed won the cup last year. There's zero rhyme or reason to it. Build as best you can and hope for the best. And if one bounce goes against you? Wait till next year.

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