weepingminotaur Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Not to mention that a two-year deal for Subban would put us in the position of having virtually every member of our D corps hit some form of free agency at the same time (Markov UFA, Kaberle UFA, Diaz UFA, Emelin UFA). I would hope that Bergevin isn't going to fall into the trap Gainey did when he let half the team hit free agency at the same time and then re-signed a bunch of players to contracts with identical terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatethosebruins Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 From the parody guy Marc Bergevin @MarcFBergevin Were people all up in Michaelangelo's grill when he painted the Sistine Chapel? NO! Be patient with PK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Yep, going to ignore it for now and hope that the truth is far more reassuring for our organization and for our ability to be confident in Bergevin's hockey judgment. IF that report is true, I'm very afraid for our future. Agreed, if Bergevin really thinks 2 years at 2.75 is fair value for Subban, I don't think he's in the right profession. That's just a brutally absurd valuation, considering we just gave Brandon Prust 2.5M. Brandon Prust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA_Champion Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Agreed, if Bergevin really thinks 2 years at 2.75 is fair value for Subban, I don't think he's in the right profession. That's just a brutally absurd valuation, considering we just gave Brandon Prust 2.5M. Brandon Prust. Dude, How could you forget? Brandon Prust will contribute character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weepingminotaur Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Dude, How could you forget? Brandon Prust will contribute character. Looks like someone called for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstStar Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't know why people are insulted for Pk about the 1st offer. I'm sure PK and his agent aren't insulted, it's called a negotiation. That's probably right around what they expected as a first offer. They're counter offer will probably be on the high side, MB and PK's agent will meet somewhere in between. That's how a negotiation goes. If i were PK and his agent, I'd be insulted if i actually thought MB was serious about the 1st offer... Which he isn't. It's also a way of feeling out the other party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatethosebruins Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I don't know why people are insulted for Pk about the 1st offer. I'm sure PK and his agent aren't insulted, it's called a negotiation. That's probably right around what they expected as a first offer. They're counter offer will probably be on the high side, MB and PK's agent will meet somewhere in between. That's how a negotiation goes. If i were PK and his agent, I'd be insulted if i actually thought MB was serious about the 1st offer... Which he isn't. It's also a way of feeling out the other party. Its the reverse side of what doan did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme-1 Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Its the reverse side of what doan did ya and it made Doan look like an idiot and possibly an egomaniac (thinking he deserves that). The reverse is also true for MB. Your first offer is generally going to be on the low side (or high for the player), but it should be realistic. Of course we have no way to know that either of these reports are actually true. I'm seeing a bad trend with the reputable TSN publishing articles that start with "Report:" that list some rumor without any sources or any person vouching for them. When I hear something from Mckenzie or Dreger's mouth I usually trust it, but these "Reports" could be anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeanCountingHab Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Maybe I'm alone but I really don't see that offer as being an absurd low-ball or insult. It's basically the exact same as Carey's first contract. If it was more than a two year term, then yes, it's ridiculous. Now, I don't expect PK to sign for that, but as a first offer I'm not appalled. I would still rather get him long term though so I hope this report isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme-1 Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 It's basically the exact same as Carey's first contract. This has been stated a few times and isn't really true. While the raw numbers are the same, the salary cap was 10 million less when Carey signed his deal, so the offer is a good chunk less than Carey made. The other reason this comparison is invalid is Subban is coming off a season where he was our #1 dman, Price was coming off a season where he ended up being the backup at the end of the season and only played in half the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeanCountingHab Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 This has been stated a few times and isn't really true. While the raw numbers are the same, the salary cap was 10 million less when Carey signed his deal, so the offer is a good chunk less than Carey made. The other reason this comparison is invalid is Subban is coming off a season where he was our #1 dman, Price was coming off a season where he ended up being the backup at the end of the season and only played in half the games. Fair enough, although Carey had spent long stretches as our starter and the deal was clearly signed to make him our starter since they moved Halak in June. He also had an extra NHL season under his belt. Regardless, I'll agree there's enough differences there to make this a bit of an apples to oranges situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Whoa, I just realized what all the fuss was about. I have been trying to figure out why people think Subban was "lowballed" but didn't realize that the report is for $5.5m for two years! I misread the original report, I thought it meant $5.5 per year for 2 years (i.e., 11m). I was more concerned about it being only 2 years, not 4 - 6 years and thus missed the actual per year term. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindred Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Looks like someone called for... i'll see your grit and raise you one Whoa, I just realized what all the fuss was about. I have been trying to figure out why people think Subban was "lowballed" but didn't realize that the report is for $5.5m for two years! I misread the original report, I thought it meant $5.5 per year for 2 years (i.e., 11m). I was more concerned about it being only 2 years, not 4 - 6 years and thus missed the actual per year term. Carry on. i wonder how many others didn't pick upon that right away. When i first read the report on habsinsideout it was mentioned at that the offer meant PK would be making 750,000 more then Emelin. That does make it seem very low when you consider what PK brings to the team overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Looks like someone called for... And don't forget.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbaker8787 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 This has been stated a few times and isn't really true. While the raw numbers are the same, the salary cap was 10 million less when Carey signed his deal, so the offer is a good chunk less than Carey made. Kind of off topic but this made me wonder if we could ever see a contract not for a dollar amount but a percentage of the cap for that given year. I know the cap could go back down but in the case of 05 to now we saw the cap go from 39 to 70. With all these long term deals, in ten years it's not ridiculous to think it may be a 100mil cap. In webers case if the cap stays at 70 hell be making 20% of the teams cap space, doesn't leave much room to help make a team. A deal at say 15%, 12%, 12%, 12%, 10% going down to 4% even, he could be making up to 4 or 5mil at the end of the term but it wouldn't hurt the team as much, both parties win IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstStar Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Seems like we're not the only team at a standstill with our RFA's. NY and Del Zotto talks are stalled, so are the talks with Caps and Carlson(pretty much nonexistent). Caps first offer to Carlson was ridiculously low compared to Subbans, so it's not like PK is being singled out. Apparently the offer to Carlson was just a formality. The pending CBA is one factor, value and length of contract seem to be another. Also, this is MB's first time trying to sign a potential all-star dman. He's trying to clean up the mess he inherited, sign franchise players like Carey and PK and trying to find was to improve the Habs. PK will be signed eventually, just don't know if it'll happen before the CBA deadline. MB has a lot to deal with. Not an ideal situation for a rookie GM. Neither the caps, rags nor Habs want to be the team who signs first. Whoever signs first, will be used as a measuring stick for other unsigned RFA's. I like the slow and steady approach MB is taking. I hope the season starts on time, anxious to see how our Habs do. Despite not making any blockbuster moves, I'm curious to see if the stability MB has created will have a positive impact on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Everything has gone to a standstill for the moment. Looks like everybody is in a wait and see mode until there's some concrete news on a new CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatethosebruins Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Also Doughty signed his deal halfway through (?) the kings training camp so we have tons of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 I'm not really concerned, we'll match any offer sheet unless it's absolutely insane, and I'm sure he'll sign. I just want it done with so I can know the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72coleman Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'm not really concerned, we'll match any offer sheet unless it's absolutely insane, and I'm sure he'll sign. I just want it done with so I can know the details. subban will probably be getting a offer sheet from philly after there bad news today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hab-a-nice-day--33-_mtlc Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Even though PK is a RFA, his agent knows that the longer they wait the more leverage they will acquire in negotiations. They are also probably very interested in seeing the NHLPA's counter offer and the league's reaction to it (at least their intial response) before making any final decisions (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 These negotiations are stretching beyond a reasonable time frame IMO. I know for a fact we would match any and all offer sheets,, but it's not an ideal situation (Cap wise) if we're forced to overpay for PK. I'd rather see him sign under terms that the Habs are comfortable with, rather then having to deal with a rogue offer from a team like Philly, who don't seem to care how many trading bridges they may be burning. I find the situation growing increasingly uncomfortable with each passing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitom Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 These negotiations are stretching beyond a reasonable time frame IMO. I know for a fact we would match any and all offer sheets,, but it's not an ideal situation (Cap wise) if we're forced to overpay for PK. I'd rather see him sign under terms that the Habs are comfortable with, rather then having to deal with a rogue offer from a team like Philly, who don't seem to care how many trading bridges they may be burning. I find the situation growing increasingly uncomfortable with each passing day. Don't worry HTL, they'll get a deal done. I too would like it done, but maybe Philly burning trading bridges is good. Philly qualifies as one of those teams, like TML, Bos, & NYR, that I hope miss playoffs but draft in the 10 to 14 spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 Don't worry HTL, they'll get a deal done. I too would like it done, but maybe Philly burning trading bridges is good. Philly qualifies as one of those teams, like TML, Bos, & NYR, that I hope miss playoffs but draft in the 10 to 14 spots. I have no doubt he'll be wearing a Hab jersey. I just would hate to see it happen based on some other team's sabotage attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitom Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 I have no doubt he'll be wearing a Hab jersey. I just would hate to see it happen based on some other team's sabotage attempt. I want our Habs to be Habs because this is the place they want to be, not for the money only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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