#51 David Desharnais 2012-2013

[henrique_rauen]

Looks like that the Yotes have Keith Yandle in the trading block, and that they want a 1st line centar for it. I would send DD. And you guys?

[Jbaker8787]

I know he's our #1 centre, but do other teams view him as one? Probably one of the best bargain #1 centres though that's for sure

[henrique_rauen]

I know he's our #1 centre, but do other teams view him as one? Probably one of the best bargain #1 centres though that's for sure

You are right, the Coyotes probably would not accept a swap between DD and Yandle. But I would still try something involving both players. Maybe DD + a 3rd round pick, or DD and a prospect. I still think would be a great trade.

[roy_133]

Davis?

[jennifer_rocket]

Looks like that the Yotes have Keith Yandle in the trading block, and that they want a 1st line centar for it. I would send DD. And you guys?

I would, yes. No question about it.

In the short-term we still have Gomez on the roster to fill in a top-six center position (or we can see if Eller is ready).

I would even offer David Desharnais + Yannick Weber (or) Rapahel Diaz. Maybe a third or fourth round draft choice if I had to.

I know he's our #1 centre, but do other teams view him as one? Probably one of the best bargain #1 centres though that's for sure

Which might be what Phoenix is looking for. Savings.

[jennifer_rocket]

I wonder what David's fate is going to be after this season. He's a restricted free agent and could have some value to other teams. If he puts up another 60 points this season he will be in for a several million dollar raise. Can we afford to pay David this money heading into 2013-2014? We're already going to be at the mercy of Max Pacioretty's agent.

[Noob616]

I wonder what David's fate is going to be after this season. He's a restricted free agent and could have some value to other teams. If he puts up another 60 points this season he will be in for a several million dollar raise. Can we afford to pay David this money heading into 2013-2014? We're already going to be at the mercy of Max Pacioretty's agent.

I think one of Plekanec or DD is gone after (or during) this season. By then we'll have a better handle on the development of Galchenyuk and Eller, which will guide the decision. My gut says we'll trade DD, as Plekanec has the two-way element to his game and is locked up long term. I think by the time we're ready to be contenders, Galchenyuk and Eller will hopefully be our top two centers, and Plekanec would be a good Dave Bolland type for us (although that can be bad value for 5M).

It's tough. There's benefits and drawbacks to keeping both. I think Plekanec is the better player, but he is older, and he'll probably be outside his prime when Galchenyuk and Eller are ready for primetime.

[jennifer_rocket]

I think one of Plekanec or DD is gone after (or during) this season. By then we'll have a better handle on the development of Galchenyuk and Eller, which will guide the decision. My gut says we'll trade DD, as Plekanec has the two-way element to his game and is locked up long term. I think by the time we're ready to be contenders, Galchenyuk and Eller will hopefully be our top two centers, and Plekanec would be a good Dave Bolland type for us (although that can be bad value for 5M).

It's tough. There's benefits and drawbacks to keeping both. I think Plekanec is the better player, but he is older, and he'll probably be outside his prime when Galchenyuk and Eller are ready for primetime.

I'd rather keep Tomas too. However, I think we are going to need to reevaluate depending on how this season goes. David might be the cheaper option long-term. We should be able to get him for under $4 million on his next contract. If we have another terrible season and fall into the bottom five again I might prefer trading Plekanec in order to get more return.

[Noob616]

I think we'd be hard pressed to get him for under 4M IMO. If he's arbitration eligible, no way. Grabovski got like 5.5 didn't he?

[hatethosebruins]

I think one of Plekanec or DD is gone after (or during) this season. By then we'll have a better handle on the development of Galchenyuk and Eller, which will guide the decision. My gut says we'll trade DD, as Plekanec has the two-way element to his game and is locked up long term. I think by the time we're ready to be contenders, Galchenyuk and Eller will hopefully be our top two centers, and Plekanec would be a good Dave Bolland type for us (although that can be bad value for 5M).

It's tough. There's benefits and drawbacks to keeping both. I think Plekanec is the better player, but he is older, and he'll probably be outside his prime when Galchenyuk and Eller are ready for primetime.

If Galchenyuk and Eller are ready for the 1 and 2 positions its simple. Give Tomas the more defensive assignments on one of our lower lines.

The problem I have with DD is that as Eller and Galchenyuk Develop I think it will be more difficult to keep DD in an offensive role and hes very weak on the puck so I doubt a defensive role is good for him. I do really wish we could keep this guy long term but I doubt we will be able to do so

[jedimaas]

If Galchenyuk and Eller are ready for the 1 and 2 positions its simple. Give Tomas the more defensive assignments on one of our lower lines.

The problem I have with DD is that as Eller and Galchenyuk Develop I think it will be more difficult to keep DD in an offensive role and hes very weak on the puck so I doubt a defensive role is good for him. I do really wish we could keep this guy long term but I doubt we will be able to do so

This is why, if we dont want to trade DD, we need to try him at wing at some point. His lack of defensive polish will limit his usefulness and ice time as Galchenyuk and Eller develop. Maybe not this year but soon enough.

[jennifer_rocket]

I think we'd be hard pressed to get him for under 4M IMO. If he's arbitration eligible, no way. Grabovski got like 5.5 didn't he?

Maybe you're right. I wasn't aware he was arbitration eligible.

[Manatee-X]

I think one of Plekanec or DD is gone after (or during) this season. By then we'll have a better handle on the development of Galchenyuk and Eller, which will guide the decision. My gut says we'll trade DD, as Plekanec has the two-way element to his game and is locked up long term. I think by the time we're ready to be contenders, Galchenyuk and Eller will hopefully be our top two centers, and Plekanec would be a good Dave Bolland type for us (although that can be bad value for 5M).

It's tough. There's benefits and drawbacks to keeping both. I think Plekanec is the better player, but he is older, and he'll probably be outside his prime when Galchenyuk and Eller are ready for primetime.

I think we'd be hard pressed to get him for under 4M IMO. If he's arbitration eligible, no way. Grabovski got like 5.5 didn't he?

To be honest, I really don't see why we would consider trading Plekanec. I mean obviously nobody is ever truly safe (and if we were offered a really great deal for him I would certainly look at it) but the idea of trading him to make space on the roster or to save money just makes no sense to me.

You just don't often find players who can do what Pleky can for the money we're paying him, and we've got him locked up long-term to boot. He may not be the most flashy star player from a fan's perspective, but I'm sure any GM in the league would love to take him off our hands. Simply put, he improves the team significantly.

I can't say the same of David Desharnais. He's been great, sure, but it's easier to find someone who does what he does than to find someone who does what Pleky does. Even if Desharnais ends up being $2M cheaper I'll still take Tomas over him in a heartbeat. I can't imagine what we could spend $2M on that would be more valuable to us than Plekanec.

Over the next few years Desharnais won't be competing for a job with Plekanec, he'll be competing with guys like Galchenyuk, Leblanc and Eller. Pleky plays a different role and it's not one that anyone currently on the team can fill (although we could go out on a limb and hope that maybe Eller could someday)

[jedimaas]

To be honest, I really don't see why we would consider trading Plekanec.

The reason is that sometimes you're better off trading a player of higher value (higher return) than one who isnt as good. In other words, IF - IF - management thinks we're ok with Galchenyuk, Eller & DD as our top 3 centres, then Plekanec becomes expendable. It doesnt mean he's not as good as the other 3, it means that his return may be great enough to warrant moving.

We could have 4 centres vying for top 2 spots. Some will need to be moved/converted to wing.

Galchenyuk is nigh untradeable - we havent had a pick that high for decades so it would be nearly impossible for me to imagine a trade scenario where it would realistically make sense to even consider moving him.

DD had one great year but has not had time to show consistency yet and is still plagued by the idea that he is too small. That and the fact that he is fairly weak defensively means his value could be fairly low.

Eller's value is too low to trade imho. Its not that people wouldnt want him but he's still unproven and the best you would get back is another unproven prospect imho.

That leaves plekanec who probably has the 3rd highest trade value on our team (after Price & PK). It would hurt to lose him, but it may make more sense to get a stud defensman for him or something rather than trading DD for a 2nd rounder.

I still would like to see one or more of these guys tried on the wing though, before we move them (unless a great deal came along that made sense, of course).

[Manatee-X]

The reason is that sometimes you're better off trading a player of higher value (higher return) than one who isnt as good. In other words, IF - IF - management thinks we're ok with Galchenyuk, Eller & DD as our top 3 centres, then Plekanec becomes expendable. It doesnt mean he's not as good as the other 3, it means that his return may be great enough to warrant moving.

We could have 4 centres vying for top 2 spots. Some will need to be moved/converted to wing.

Galchenyuk is nigh untradeable - we havent had a pick that high for decades so it would be nearly impossible for me to imagine a trade scenario where it would realistically make sense to even consider moving him.

DD had one great year but has not had time to show consistency yet and is still plagued by the idea that he is too small. That and the fact that he is fairly weak defensively means his value could be fairly low.

Eller's value is too low to trade imho. Its not that people wouldnt want him but he's still unproven and the best you would get back is another unproven prospect imho.

That leaves plekanec who probably has the 3rd highest trade value on our team (after Price & PK). It would hurt to lose him, but it may make more sense to get a stud defensman for him or something rather than trading DD for a 2nd rounder.

I still would like to see one or more of these guys tried on the wing though, before we move them (unless a great deal came along that made sense, of course).

The thing is that I just see it as a really, really big IF to think that Desharnais, Gally and Eller will be ready to be our top three centres any time soon. I'd be curious what the actual statistics are (I remember seeing something like this in the draft threads), but I wonder what the chances are of a 3rd overall draft pick actually having as much success in the NHL as Plekanec? I know we're all excited about Galchenyuk but the fact remains that there's a pretty realistic chance that he doesn't ever surpass Tomas' level of productivity or value to the team.

Pleky would get the highest return on a trade because he's the best player (and he's on a great contract). I just don't see any of our other guys, at least in the very near future, being able to take over Tomas' role. We have a backlog of centres, sure, but I don't think that we can yet say that we have a backlog of quality top line centres. Using Plekanec in a trade to shore up our defence is a sideways move at best if it ends up leaving us really weak down the middle.

[jedimaas]

The thing is that I just see it as a really, really big IF to think that Desharnais, Gally and Eller will be ready to be our top three centres any time soon.

Oh, I absolutely agree. Its the reason I personally see option a) as trying eller and or DD at the wing and option B ) as moving DD. IMHO option c) of moving Plekanec (unless there is something very crazy about Galy's development) is not a great one - unless there's a deal we absolutely cannot refuse.

I'd be curious what the actual statistics are (I remember seeing something like this in the draft threads), but I wonder what the chances are of a 3rd overall draft pick actually having as much success in the NHL as Plekanec? I know we're all excited about Galchenyuk but the fact remains that there's a pretty realistic chance that he doesn't ever surpass Tomas' level of productivity or value to the team.

Stats would be arbitrary anyway because we are talking about a specific player but one thing to keep in mind is that many believe that if he had played all year, he would have been 1st overall. The (very valid) question is: did that one year off hurt his career forever? or will he get back to that point? tough to say. I think its way too early to even sugest he's a generational talent and I agree with you - Plekanec is one of our best in a long time so even if galy scores 70-80 points in a couple of years, that may not make him "better" than Plekanec with 65pts & the toughest defensively assignments night after night.

Pleky would get the highest return on a trade because he's the best player (and he's on a great contract). I just don't see any of our other guys, at least in the very near future, being able to take over Tomas' role. We have a backlog of centres, sure, but I don't think that we can yet say that we have a backlog of quality top line centres. Using Plekanec in a trade to shore up our defence is a sideways move at best if it ends up leaving us really weak down the middle.

Its risky, thats for sure, but if its the best option for the team, then at some point we may have to do it.

I think we need to give the new brass some faith & while I may think that its highly unlikely Galchenyuk is ready this year, if the believe he is, then I guess we need to give them a shot to prove themselves.

[MkGee]

I wonder what David's fate is going to be after this season. He's a restricted free agent and could have some value to other teams. If he puts up another 60 points this season he will be in for a several million dollar raise. Can we afford to pay David this money heading into 2013-2014? We're already going to be at the mercy of Max Pacioretty's agent.

How do you figure?

[Guest]

How do you figure?

He's in the ballpark. That's the going rate for 60 point players. Several million.

[NewfoundlandHab]

How do you figure?

I don't know how one could think he will NOT be due for a few million dollar raise. Assuming he has another close to 60 pt season, many will consider him a proven top 6 center. He's one of our craftiest players, and if he can still manage to produce despite his size I think there will be quite a number of teams interested. As of right now I would opt to trade him because of Pleks, Eller, Galchenyuk (as many people have stated before) and hopefully he has another good season so we caqn get the maximum return for him.

[MkGee]

I don't know how one could think he will NOT be due for a few million dollar raise. Assuming he has another close to 60 pt season, many will consider him a proven top 6 center. He's one of our craftiest players, and if he can still manage to produce despite his size I think there will be quite a number of teams interested. As of right now I would opt to trade him because of Pleks, Eller, Galchenyuk (as many people have stated before) and hopefully he has another good season so we caqn get the maximum return for him.

there's a difference between a few million and seven million... he's not worth 7 million to me, i agree that he's very good but givingthat much money to a guy who's yet to score 20 goals is absurd!

there's a difference between a few million and seven million... he's not worth 7 million to me, i agree that he's very good but giving that much money to a guy who's yet to score 20 goals is absurd!

[Litany]

He said "several" million which certainly can mean "a few", not "seven" million.

[jennifer_rocket]

It will be very interesting to see what happens with David this season heading into a contract year.

[DA_Champion]

It will be very interesting to see what happens with David this season heading into a contract year.

I hope we maximize DD's trade value and then trade him. If we really shelter him all season long we might be able to get a 1st rounder with additional throw ins.

I don't see him fitting into our long-term plans if we are to build a contender. I can visualize a contender with Plekanec/Eller as 2nd/3rd line centers, but I can't visualize a contender with Desharnais as the 1st line center.

Desharnais is the type of player who, when given disproportionate PP time, easy forward competition, two 1st line wingers, and tons of offensive zone starts manages to... become the 20th most productive center in the league for points.

That's right, he is 20th among centers in the NHL in spite of all his advantages. If 1st line center was a regular season rank, the Habs wouldn't even make the playoffs. They wouldn't even be in 9th place. Meanwhile, if you look at the guys above him, they can also sometimes contribute on the PK, and they tend to have a much higher goals to assist ratio. Desharnais isn't even top-30 among centers for goals scored. He is in 54th place. Even worse, on average, the 19 centers ahead of Desharnais in points and 53 centers ahead of Desharnais in goals achieved what they did with inferior winger quality to Desharnais.

Fundamentally, we don't need a center who only manages to be 20th in the league for points in spite of a multitude of advantages. If you're going to give a center all those advantages that create imbalances and difficulties that cascade everywhere else in the roster, you need him to be a top-5. If you can't get the center that we hope Galchenyuk can become, then you need a center that can compensate for his "1B" offensive production in other ways, for example Plekanec's penalty killing.

For me, the 2012-2013 season is all about setting the stage for future seasons. We're not winning anything this year, and thus Bergevin will hopefully try and ship out whatever doesn't fit into the contender picture. Galchenyuk will be our 3rd line center at the start of the 2013-2014 season and thus we'll need to make room for him beforehand. I don't want Galchenyuk on the 4th line and I don't want to hear garbage about him needing to "earn a roster spot". One of Plekanec,Eller, or Desharnais, needs to go. Desharnais is the one who is least effective in his position.

[BigTed3]

I hope we maximize DD's trade value and then trade him. If we really shelter him all season long we might be able to get a 1st rounder with additional throw ins.

I don't see him fitting into our long-term plans if we are to build a contender. I can visualize a contender with Plekanec/Eller as 2nd/3rd line centers, but I can't visualize a contender with Desharnais as the 1st line center.

Desharnais is the type of player who, when given disproportionate PP time, easy forward competition, two 1st line wingers, and tons of offensive zone starts manages to... become the 20th most productive center in the league for points.

That's right, he is 20th among centers in the NHL in spite of all his advantages. If 1st line center was a regular season rank, the Habs wouldn't even make the playoffs. They wouldn't even be in 9th place. Meanwhile, if you look at the guys above him, they can also sometimes contribute on the PK, and they tend to have a much higher goals to assist ratio. Desharnais isn't even top-30 among centers for goals scored. He is in 54th place. Even worse, on average, the 19 centers ahead of Desharnais in points and 53 centers ahead of Desharnais in goals achieved what they did with inferior winger quality to Desharnais.

Fundamentally, we don't need a center who only manages to be 20th in the league for points in spite of a multitude of advantages. If you're going to give a center all those advantages that create imbalances and difficulties that cascade everywhere else in the roster, you need him to be a top-5. If you can't get the center that we hope Galchenyuk can become, then you need a center that can compensate for his "1B" offensive production in other ways, for example Plekanec's penalty killing.

For me, the 2012-2013 season is all about setting the stage for future seasons. We're not winning anything this year, and thus Bergevin will hopefully try and ship out whatever doesn't fit into the contender picture. Galchenyuk will be our 3rd line center at the start of the 2013-2014 season and thus we'll need to make room for him beforehand. I don't want Galchenyuk on the 4th line and I don't want to hear garbage about him needing to "earn a roster spot". One of Plekanec,Eller, or Desharnais, needs to go. Desharnais is the one who is least effective in his position.

To a certain extent, I agree that DD is the least likely guy you're going to build around. Plekanec has the best skill and two-way play, Eller has size, and Galchenyuk's the only one projected to be a true #1 guy. On the other hand, DD has met every challenge at every level of hockey he's played at and it's really hard to be sure about what his ceiling is. I'm sure no one thought you could have St. Louis as a key cog in a championship team he first broke into the NHL and yet it happened. I think we need to remember that DD's only played two seasons and that there's still a lot of potential there. I completely agree that we need to move a center in the next off-season and if DD's value is high enough, he'd be a good candidate, but I don't think moving Plekanec instead is off the table.

On the subject of linemates, I wouldn't say DD had the best wingers in the least:

- Evgeni malkin played with James Neal and Chris kunitz.

- Stamkos had St. Louis

- Henrik Sedin had Daniel and Burrows

- Brad richards spent time with Callahan and Gaborik

- krejci played with Horton and Lucic

- Olli Jokine played with Iginla

- Joe Thoronton's top 3 linemates by ice time were Pavelski, marleau, and Couture

All those guys finished ahead of DD and all had better or comparable linemates, in my opinion. In addition, Patrick kane is listed as a center in scoring ahead of DD but he actually spent more time at wing, and he played with guys like Toews, Hossa, and Sharp most of the season. Ditto Tyler Seguin, who spent a lot of time on the wing with Patrice Bergeron, and Patrick Elias, who played wing with Dainius Zubrus and Petr Sykora most of the season. If we're looking at guys who actually played center most of the year, DD finished 17th in scoring, which is honestly not terrible for a second-year player. To boot, there are 3 teams (Bos, SJ, and Det) who had two players ahead of him, so it means that there were actually 16 teams in the league whose 1st-line center scored fewer points than DD and if that's the only total we're going by, then that would put us in the playoff position. DD even scored more points than Getzlaf did playing with ryan and Perry.

Yes, I realize DD played sheltered minutes but so too did Henrik Sedin, and no one's been downgrading what he's done the past few years. If we move DD, it should be because we get a good return for him and not because we don't feel he can contribute. Say we can get Bobby ryan for Plekanec and only get a guy like Bolland or a 2nd-rounder for DD... I'd be willing to take the downgrade at center in order to shore up another position because although I believe Pleks is the better player, I do have faith DD, Eller, and Galchenyuk could pick up the slack enough to justify trying to upgrade another position where there really is no alternative.

[DA_Champion]

Yes, I realize DD played sheltered minutes but so too did Henrik Sedin, and no one's been downgrading what he's done the past few years. If we move DD, it should be because we get a good return for him and not because we don't feel he can contribute. Say we can get Bobby ryan for Plekanec and only get a guy like Bolland or a 2nd-rounder for DD... I'd be willing to take the downgrade at center in order to shore up another position because although I believe Pleks is the better player, I do have faith DD, Eller, and Galchenyuk could pick up the slack enough to justify trying to upgrade another position where there really is no alternative.

When Henrik Sedin gets sheltered minutes he produces 112, 94, and 81 points. Sheltered minutes is worth it at 112 and 94 points, it might not be at 81 points and it's certainly not worth it at 62 points.

I agree that whether we keep Plekanec or Desharnais should depend on the relative trade values.