Habs Award Candidates

[jeff33]

subban- norris

gallagher- calder

therrien- adams

markov- masterton

price-vezina

in that order of likelihood, imo

what do the good folks of the forum think?

i think the top 3 are all a lock to be nominated, but i think subban is absolutely running away with it for the norris and is our strongest candidate

[Guest habs1952]

I'd say very possible for the first 4 but I don't think Price has a chance for the Vezina.

[kinot-1]

I agree with 52, but as far as Markov goes,,,he might be a finalist, but I think it will go to Crosby,,,,,,,,just because

[weepingminotaur]

Gallagher might get a nomination but won't win. Price may not even get nominated. Markov will lose to Sidney "good old Canadian boy" Crosby. Therrien will get a Jack Adams nomination but lose because voters don't know enough about hockey to understand his impact. Only Subban has a legitimate shot at winning a trophy IMO.

[BigTed3]

I agree with the majority here...

- Subban should be the favorite right now for the Norris. It's a lock that he should get a nomination unless something drastically changes.

- Gallagher should get a nomination. I think voters will be easily swayed towards Huberdeau because of pedigree, but a lot of people have pointed out that Huberdeau's had much more opportunity and hasn't really done much more than Gallagher, as well as the fact that Gallagher has had a huge impact on games outside of his point production. I think he has at least a shot at winning, but I don't think the media will peg him as the favorite, so he'll need a strong finish to the season.

- Therrien will be fighting for a nod. I think he'll be 3rd or 4th in the voting. Paul Mclean should win, and it's hard to argue with the success Chicago has had. You could argue for Therrien as much as you could argue for Boudreau, Bylsma, Carlyle, etc... but in the end, I think the best he can hope for is a nomination.

- Price, in my opinion, will not be nominated for the Vezina. Bobrovsky seems to be the favorite right now, and there are too many people ahead of him statistically.

- I would have liked to see Plekanec at least in the conversation for the Selke. There are perennial favorites for the award whom he won't displace because of voter inertia, but he's really an under-appreciated two-way player in the media.

- Markov should get a nomination for the Masterton. I agree that public opinion will focus on Crosby because he's Crosby, not because he's necessarily the guy who fought back the hardest. I wonder whether Markov can garner any attenton for the Norris too. In my opinion, he's not deserving of that nod despite his success, but he's been integral to the PP, he's played huge minutes, and he's in the top 5 in D scoring... I'll still say no, but you never know.

[kinot-1]

Just read a piece in the Toronto Star. Seems they feel that Carlyle is/should be a candidate for the Jack Adams :lol:

Article here, if you care to waste your time.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/04/12/maple_leafs_carlyle_earns_top_coach_buzz_feschuk.html

[Guest habs1952]

Just read a piece in the Toronto Star. Seems they feel that Carlyle is/should be a candidate for the Jack Adams :lol:

Article here, if you care to waste your time.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2013/04/12/maple_leafs_carlyle_earns_top_coach_buzz_feschuk.html

This is the Habs awards thread! Go post that on your toilet paper. :lol:

[powerplay2009]

At the rate Ottawa has been going, the Jack Adams is slipping away from the Monopoly man and shifting more towards Quenville, Bylsma, or Therrien. I think Therrien has been the best coach other than the Monopoly Man, but Pittsburgh and Chicago have the personal award mojo this year with their performances.

[kinot-1]

This is the Habs awards thread! Go post that on your toilet paper. :lol:

You're not a very nice guy.

[jedimaas]

Gallagher might get a nomination but won't win. Price may not even get nominated. Markov will lose to Sidney "good old Canadian boy" Crosby. Therrien will get a Jack Adams nomination but lose because voters don't know enough about hockey to understand his impact. Only Subban has a legitimate shot at winning a trophy IMO.

Im probably close to you on this.

I think Subban has the strongest chance, but I do think that Gallagher has decent odds too - the last handful of games here will go a long way to determining both. Both of these awards are given by the PHWA (Professional Hockey writers association) with a 5 point system (10-7-5-3-1) and I think that voting will favour both Subban an Gally (as opposed to just picking your favourite at a position & casting one vote).

Therrien most likely will get a nod, but won't win. Its the Broadcasters association who votes for this & I believe its far more of a crapshoot than the 2 above.

Markov is an interesting choice for the Masterton - and still could win - but its actually awarded based on a "poll" of the PHWA, so again, its never as calculated or accurate as the Calder or the Norris. Between the two mentioned above (Crosby & Markov) obviously Markov should win - he has come back to a level that most thought he never could, at a much later age and much more time off, than Crosby. However, being the face of the NHL, it stands to reason that Sid will be hard to beat for this one. He's just too high profile. I don't believe their heritage or ethnic background has much play int he matter, i just think the NHL is so in love with Sid that when he takes a crap they want to help wipe.

Oh and yeah, I don't see Price being a finalist. He's been fine but nowhere near good enough to be a vezina winner this season imho. Thats ok, he can just go out & win the Conn Smythe instead

[weepingminotaur]

Heritage and ethnic background have very much to do with the voting. Canadian journalists are largely anglo, white, prejudiced against European players (particularly Russians), and chomping at the bit to heap any accolade they can on white Canadian players. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the bigotry and narrow-mindedness of sports journalists, believe me.

[BeanCountingHab]

Subban - lock for a nomination, good chance to win. Main competition in my mind is Suter.

Gallagher - I think he'll be nominated. I think he can win if he's hot down the stretch, but it's Huberdeau's award to lose at the moment IMO

Therrien - If we win the division, excellent chance he's nominated. McLean probably wins if Ottawa doesn't falter too much down the stretch, but a 15th to 2nd place finish puts him right in the mix.

Markov - Will be nominated, will lose to Crosby.

Price - Will not be nominated, and really shouldn't be this year. (Not a knock, he's simply not been one of the top 3 goalies in the league this year).

[BigTed3]

Heritage and ethnic background have very much to do with the voting. Canadian journalists are largely anglo, white, prejudiced against European players (particularly Russians), and chomping at the bit to heap any accolade they can on white Canadian players. Nobody ever went broke underestimating the bigotry and narrow-mindedness of sports journalists, believe me.

Don't get me wrong, I'd tend to agree that North American journalists will associate more with North American players, but I don't think country of origin plays into the decisions as much as it may have in the past. If you look at the major awards last year, you had a Russian (Malkin) winning the top prize, and Swedes winning the Vezina (Lundqvist), Norris (Karlsson), and Calder (Landeskog). I'm sure there's the occasional voter who might allow race/origin to come into play to a small degree, but I think most of these writers are professionals who won't ignore a good season when they see one. I'm much more concerned they'll judge players by evaluating their career histories as well and not just the current season. As a whole, I find the nominations and awards tend to favor recurrent winners and nominees. For example, they may say Bergeron or Datsyuk has always been a great two-way player so they get a heads-up when it comes to deciding who to choose for the Selke. To me, that's much more of a factor against Subban than his race.

[FirstStar]

Great topic BT!

As many have pointed out, Subban has the best chance of bring home some hardware.

Like to see Gallagher get it, but Huberdeau on points alone is in the lead. I hope the commity puts some thought into this one. Whereas JH has more points, I feel Gallagher has had a bigger impact and with less icetime.

Therrien has to be a candidate. Quenville does deserve a long look due to the start the hawks had and they continue to lead the WC. Hawks even surprised themselves and their fans with their hot start, but the hawks were a good team last season, so it's no surprise they've had success this season. Not to knock the hawks, finishing 6th last year (WC) and jumped up to first this season, is definitely impressive. I may be a little biased, but i think going from last in the EC to the top of their conference in one season (with a long stretch at #1) is more impressive imho.But it's not up to me.

Price, don't see, not this season.

markov has a shot at the masterton, having a great season after missing almost 3 complete season.

Subban definitely has the best chance, Therrien imo is 2nd and Gallagher is 3rd. Been surprised in the past, possible none of our Habs bring home any awards.

[ColRouleBleu]

Don't get me wrong, I'd tend to agree that North American journalists will associate more with North American players, but I don't think country of origin plays into the decisions as much as it may have in the past. If you look at the major awards last year, you had a Russian (Malkin) winning the top prize, and Swedes winning the Vezina (Lundqvist), Norris (Karlsson), and Calder (Landeskog). I'm sure there's the occasional voter who might allow race/origin to come into play to a small degree, but I think most of these writers are professionals who won't ignore a good season when they see one. I'm much more concerned they'll judge players by evaluating their career histories as well and not just the current season. As a whole, I find the nominations and awards tend to favor recurrent winners and nominees. For example, they may say Bergeron or Datsyuk has always been a great two-way player so they get a heads-up when it comes to deciding who to choose for the Selke. To me, that's much more of a factor against Subban than his race.

That's my opinion as well, even more so in a shortened season, and one where East doesn't play West at all

[FirstStar]

Don't get me wrong, I'd tend to agree that North American journalists will associate more with North American players, but I don't think country of origin plays into the decisions as much as it may have in the past. If you look at the major awards last year, you had a Russian (Malkin) winning the top prize, and Swedes winning the Vezina (Lundqvist), Norris (Karlsson), and Calder (Landeskog). I'm sure there's the occasional voter who might allow race/origin to come into play to a small degree, but I think most of these writers are professionals who won't ignore a good season when they see one. I'm much more concerned they'll judge players by evaluating their career histories as well and not just the current season. As a whole, I find the nominations and awards tend to favor recurrent winners and nominees. For example, they may say Bergeron or Datsyuk has always been a great two-way player so they get a heads-up when it comes to deciding who to choose for the Selke. To me, that's much more of a factor against Subban than his race.

Agreed, how many years was Lidstrom a shoe in?

Lunqvist has always been a heavy favorite, one could argue that has a lot to do with the team he plays for, but still, he's another Euro tender who's at the top of the list when talking about Elite NHL tenders.

Sid obviously gets a lot of coverage in NA, which isn't surprising, the NHL hasn't had a NA "standout" star since Gretz and mario.

It's not as biased as it once was.

[weepingminotaur]

Don't get me wrong, I'd tend to agree that North American journalists will associate more with North American players, but I don't think country of origin plays into the decisions as much as it may have in the past. If you look at the major awards last year, you had a Russian (Malkin) winning the top prize, and Swedes winning the Vezina (Lundqvist), Norris (Karlsson), and Calder (Landeskog). I'm sure there's the occasional voter who might allow race/origin to come into play to a small degree, but I think most of these writers are professionals who won't ignore a good season when they see one. I'm much more concerned they'll judge players by evaluating their career histories as well and not just the current season. As a whole, I find the nominations and awards tend to favor recurrent winners and nominees. For example, they may say Bergeron or Datsyuk has always been a great two-way player so they get a heads-up when it comes to deciding who to choose for the Selke. To me, that's much more of a factor against Subban than his race.

A rule of thumb about prejudice is the exceptionalism clause. "Russians are lazy floaters, but Pavel Datsyuk -- now he's not your typical Russian." Essentially, you have to work twice as hard to be considered half as good. With Subban, the damage has already been done: the reputation he has (being arrogant, selfish, not a team player, etc.) is largely based on his race, not on anything else. Look at what the media is doing to Bryzgalov in Philadephia: outright misquoting him because their lazy narrative -- Russian player doesn't care about his team -- plays well with Canadian NHL fans, who are by and large not even intelligent enough to recognize their own latent bigotry. Read some of the posts in the comments section of a TSN story of this type and you'll see what I mean.

One shouldn't have to possess the elite skills of a Datsyuk or a Malkin to be treated fairly, but sadly, this is the reality in 2013.

[BeanCountingHab]

Apparently Suter got injured last game. CBC pregame saying if he's out for any length of time there's really no one to challenge Subban for the Norris.

[Guest Regis2]

Gallagher might get a nomination but won't win. Price may not even get nominated. Markov will lose to Sidney "good old Canadian boy" Crosby. Therrien will get a Jack Adams nomination but lose because voters don't know enough about hockey to understand his impact. Only Subban has a legitimate shot at winning a trophy IMO.

+1

Price will not get nominated

There are too many other goalies having better years

The other guys should at least get nominated

[WinnipegJet]

I actually do think that Therrien will get a nomination. I don't think he will win - I agree with Big Ted that it is basically Paul Maclean's to lose - but I do think there are a lot of pundits out there that realize how far the team has come in a single year with only a few changes.

I think that with Suter going down, Subban is the runaway Norris candidate now. It might have been a tight race otherwise as Suter's impact has been huge in Minnesota, but Suter missing the final weeks of the season will drain a lot of his stock.

As for the Vezina - Carey has been great and at times stellar, but I honestly don't even think he falls in the top five this year. There are a number of goalies having exceptional and noticeable years - Rask, Bobrovsky, Lundqvist, Niemi... and you have to think that even though Fleury, Emery, and Crawford have the benefit of playing for powerhouses that they could easily sneak in just based on numbers alone.

[Noob616]

Gallagher was on the way for a while but I think he might be in the #4 spot now. I think HUberdeau and Conacher are 1-2, then you can talk about Gallagher, Saad, and Brodin.

Price doesn't even belong in the slightest discussion for the Vezina. If he even gets one 5th place vote it's one too many.

Markov on the Masterton, don't think he'll win which is a disappointment. Hard to rationally justify giving it to Crosby but I think he'll get it for the good ol' Canadian boy and face of the league stuff. Bit of a shame because it should be pretty obvious to give it to the 34 year old defenseman who came back from 3 debilitating knee injuries (and the other one...achilles tendon wasn't it?) to become the best PP QB in the league again.

Subban should be nearly a shoe in for the Vezina. In the advanced stats he's a decent bit behind Suter (although not so much when the context is considered), but by all the "traditional" stats that took Karlsson to his Norris last year there should be no debate whatsoever. Unfortunately, there's a pretty key piece of context that makes his and Karlsson's situations different and I'm not holding my breath for the writers to overcome that.

[BeanCountingHab]

Gallagher was on the way for a while but I think he might be in the #4 spot now. I think HUberdeau and Conacher are 1-2, then you can talk about Gallagher, Saad, and Brodin.

Price doesn't even belong in the slightest discussion for the Vezina. If he even gets one 5th place vote it's one too many.

Markov on the Masterton, don't think he'll win which is a disappointment. Hard to rationally justify giving it to Crosby but I think he'll get it for the good ol' Canadian boy and face of the league stuff. Bit of a shame because it should be pretty obvious to give it to the 34 year old defenseman who came back from 3 debilitating knee injuries (and the other one...achilles tendon wasn't it?) to become the best PP QB in the league again.

Subban should be nearly a shoe in for the Vezina. In the advanced stats he's a decent bit behind Suter (although not so much when the context is considered), but by all the "traditional" stats that took Karlsson to his Norris last year there should be no debate whatsoever. Unfortunately, there's a pretty key piece of context that makes his and Karlsson's situations different and I'm not holding my breath for the writers to overcome that.

Bias towards Swedish defensemen? Average icetime?

[Noob616]

With Subban, the damage has already been done: the reputation he has (being arrogant, selfish, not a team player, etc.) is largely based on his race, not on anything else.

[kinot-1]

Here's something interesting from TSN. (cut and pasted of course ), I will only pick what is relevant to the Habs.

TSN contacted NHL head coaches and asked them to pick one winner and one runner-up in each of six award categories. There were only two requirements: Choose only players in their own conference -- those they've actually seen this season -- and do not pick anyone on their own team.

A total of 25 coaches -- 13 in the West and 12 in the East -- participated in the survey.

The most closely-contested Eastern Conference voting battle was for Rookie of the Year. Montreal's Brendan Gallagher narrowly edged Florida's Jonathan Huberdeau for top Calder consideration in what amounted to an incredibly tight two-man race.

You may be surprised to learn Montreal's Carey Price, who's had a horrendous three-game stretch in the last week, topped the survey, which was conducted after he was lit up by Toronto on Saturday but before he was torched by Philadelphia on Monday night. Boston's Tuukka Rask and New York Ranger Henrik Lundquist were second and third behind Price.

Montreal's P.K. Subban was the clear No. 1 choice as the Eastern Conference's top defenceman, ahead of both Boston's Zdeno Chara and Pittsburgh's Kris Letang.

Montreal coach Michel Therrien was chosen No. 1 by his Eastern Conference peers, ahead of both Ottawa's Paul MacLean and Toronto's Randy Carlyle at Nos. 2 and 3.

So,,there ya go,,,FWIW.,,,and I do know that the coaches don't do the chosing, and the coaches could only pick from their own conference.

[BigTed3]

Galchenyuk coming on strong in the last 8-10 games. He could challenge Gallagher for the final Calder nomination.