#67 Max Pacioretty 2013-2014

[ColRouleBleu]

Max Pacioretty #67



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Archive 2012-2013
Position: Left Wing Shoots: Left
Birth Place: New Canaan, CT, USA
Birth Date: 20-Nov-1988 Age: 24
Height: 6' 2" Weight: 219
Drafted by: Montreal Draft Year: 2007 Round 1(22 overall)


@MaxPacioretty67

[Rocket-1]

More than looking forward to see him play this year Keep it up Max.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

One word: Underrated.

[KeepsItReal]

One word: Underrated.

Several words: He needs to stop trying to be so fancy all the time and use his big frame to burst through the defence and get to the net.

Too many times last season for shift after shift, period after period, game after game he looked passive and like he was jsut trying to get the perfect goal.

I wanna see him play with some more edge to his game. He's a big boy. This teams' top 6 needs him to show it out there.

[kinot-1]

Several words: He needs to stop trying to be so fancy all the time and use his big frame to burst through the defence and get to the net.

Too many times last season for shift after shift, period after period, game after game he looked passive and like he was jsut trying to get the perfect goal.

I wanna see him play with some more edge to his game. He's a big boy. This teams' top 6 needs him to show it out there.

+1

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

Several words: He needs to stop trying to be so fancy all the time and use his big frame to burst through the defence and get to the net.

Too many times last season for shift after shift, period after period, game after game he looked passive and like he was jsut trying to get the perfect goal.

I wanna see him play with some more edge to his game. He's a big boy. This teams' top 6 needs him to show it out there.

I agree. That doesn't change the fact that he's underrated. He's better than other overrated players like Bobby Ryan or Nathan Horton.

[hatethosebruins]

I agree. That doesn't change the fact that he's underrated. He's better than other overrated players like Bobby Ryan or Nathan Horton.

Horton yes, Ryan no.

I wish people would quit saying hes a whiner and all that. Ive only noticed a few instances and in one he had a pretty good reason. Grabovski bit him like a child. Leaf fans all saying Pacman shouldn't keep his arm there and Grabs was apparently "suffocating".

When it came to the Chara hit Max didn't really say much other than he feels he should have gotten a suspension but things are things and its time to move on from it. He did the least complaining out of anyone in fact.

This year, I hope he proves people wrong, and one way to do that is to just keep scoring goals.

[KeepsItReal]

I agree. That doesn't change the fact that he's underrated. He's better than other overrated players like Bobby Ryan or Nathan Horton.

What makes Bobby Ryan or Nathan Horton overrated? I'd bet many hockey fans think Pacioretty is overrated.

Kinda hard to compare the 2, Ryan is a year older and has been an established NHL'er in an offensive role for 4 seasons compared to just 2 for Pacioretty. Both great players, would love to have Ryan on the Habs.

As for Horton...he's significantly older than Pacioretty and he's a hell of a player. I'd take Pacioretty over Horton because he's younger by many years...but I don't know what makes Horton "overrated" either.

[BeanCountingHab]

Horton yes, Ryan no.

I wish people would quit saying hes a whiner and all that. Ive only noticed a few instances and in one he had a pretty good reason. Grabovski bit him like a child. Leaf fans all saying Pacman shouldn't keep his arm there and Grabs was apparently "suffocating".

When it came to the Chara hit Max didn't really say much other than he feels he should have gotten a suspension but things are things and its time to move on from it. He did the least complaining out of anyone in fact.

This year, I hope he proves people wrong, and one way to do that is to just keep scoring goals.

He's absolutely better than Ryan IMO. Over the last 2 seasons he's been better in basically any meaningful metric you can find. Ryan (who's still a great player) has a longer track record of success because he's almost 2 years older and no one broke his neck half way through his first breakout season.

I'm not saying he's miles ahead of him or anything, they're similar caliber players, but I take Patches over Ryan today.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

They're both overrated and both make a lot more money than Pacman. I'm with BCH.

Read this article:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2013/8/14/4620790/max-pacioretty-better-than-bobby-ryan-but-without-the-hype

He beats Ryan in almost everything. But Ryan makes more money.

Ryan is overrated. Horton is overrated too. He makes close to 6 mil per year on a 7 year deal while Pacioretty makes 4.5 mil on a 6 year deal.

Pacioretty's contract is the definition of a hometown discount and he is severely underrated. The hockey fans that think Pacman is overrated are the ones who underrate him and they need to check their facts.

[KeepsItReal]

Pacioretty's contract is the definition of a hometown discount and he is severely underrated. The hockey fans that think Pacman is overrated are the ones who underrate him and they need to check their facts.

If Pacioretty's contract at 4.5 way before his UFA years is such a discount how is Horton really overpaid at all, considering he signed as a UFA and has a 5.3 cap hit?

I liked Pacioretty a lot more 2 years ago, he had very good offensive numbers but he simply played too fancy of a game for long stretches, for my liking anyways. He needs to be that big, fast, physical presence in this teams top 6.

Ryan is a great player, 4 30 goal seasons at the age of 26? Sign me up.

Ryan vs. Pacioretty? I dunno...in 3 seasons' time Ryan will probably be making 7 per year so that needs to be countered in.

Tell ya one thing though, in 2018 a Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Ryan line for Team America sure sounds good, huh?

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

Cause Pacioretty is better than Horton. We're eating his UFA years too.

You can ignore the facts if you want, but they all prove that Pacman is better than both. You can talk all you want about him needing to use his body more and stuff but that won't change the facts.

For the past two years he's been dominating almost every stat. He's a possession beast and is in the top 7 in the whole league for ES goals and points per 60 minutes. While Ryan is at 10 and 41.

[KeepsItReal]

Cause Pacioretty is better than Horton. We're eating his UFA years too.

You can ignore the facts if you want, but they all prove that Pacman is better than both. You can talk all you want about him needing to use his body more and stuff but that won't change the facts.

For the past two years he's been dominating almost every stat. He's a possession beast and is in the top 7 in the whole league for ES goals and points per 60 minutes. While Ryan is at 10 and 41.

I certainly don't think Horton is better than Pacioretty, but if Pacioretty is signed to a big discount, Horton at 5.3 isn't really overpaid is he? 7 years is a bit long, but he'll be just 29 years old in 2014 so it only goes until 36 years of age which is hardly horrible.

I couldn't be happier about having Pacioretty, and for the next 6 years at 4.5 per year...but we don't need to slag Ryan and Horton to compliment him do we?

Horton is a solid player who makes the Blue Jackets a better team than they were without him, and Ryan I think will probably get a few 40 goal seasons if he plays with Spezza long term. If you rank Pacioretty ahead of Ryan and Horton that's fair enough, I really don't agree or disagree, nor am I ignoring any facts. Pacioretty needs to be more physical, the teams' top 6 lacks that element and he is the number 2 (Eller is number 1) candidate to step up.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

I don't know about you, but I won't feel good about paying Horton 5.3 mil until he's 36. He might be able to live up to the salary for the first couple of years but it'll get hard after that. Pacman is a lot younger so we won't have to worry about that. It's not that much of an overpayment but when you add the term it looks bad.

Everybody talks about how good Horton and Ryan are and I've even heard people say that if we had Ryan he'd be our best forward. I call that overrated. Nobody around the league really talks about Pacman unless it's about the Chars incident or the Grabo incident and it's usually about him being a whiner etc. I call that underrated.

[KeepsItReal]

I don't know about you, but I won't feel good about paying Horton 5.3 mil until he's 36. He might be able to live up to the salary for the first couple of years but it'll get hard after that. Pacman is a lot younger so we won't have to worry about that. It's not that much of an overpayment but when you add the term it looks bad.

Everybody talks about how good Horton and Ryan are and I've even heard people say that if we had Ryan he'd be our best forward. I call that overrated. Nobody around the league really talks about Pacman unless it's about the Chars incident or the Grabo incident and it's usually about him being a whiner etc. I call that underrated.

5.3 million with a 64.3 cap and never a cent below that number and likely by year 4 on in that deal probably a cap around 70 million isn't that much. These guys are professionals who dedicate their entire lives to playing hockey, 36 isn't that old anymore. I doubt he'll be a 70 point guy at that point, but if he can still skate a regular shift it won't be a big deal.

He was the premier UFA in a terrible market...if it wasn't term he was going to get a way higher cap hit. 5.3 is quite low in the scheme of things.

And I don't even like Horton very much.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

You can't always back up the term you give to players by pointing out that the cap will rise or that they will retire before it's up and stuff like that. That's how you end up giving bad contracts. That's how guys like Luongo and Dipietro and Lecavalier got bad contracts. It's a poor way of dealing with contracts IMO. When compared to other players of his caliber, Horton's contract does look a little bad IMO.

[KeepsItReal]

You can't always back up the term you give to players by pointing out that the cap will rise or that they will retire before it's up and stuff like that. That's how you end up giving bad contracts. That's how guys like Luongo and Dipietro and Lecavalier got bad contracts. It's a poor way of dealing with contracts IMO. When compared to other players of his caliber, Horton's contract does look a little bad IMO.

Why? It's based on revenue streams. Fortune 500 companies project their revenues for years in advance based on various factors. Hell, on inflation and inflation alone you can easily project it to be 70 or more by the time he hits that 5th year of his deal. There's not backing anything up. There's no need for it, so why do it? A 5.3 cap hit for the numbers and offensive presence Horton provides at 64.3 is a fine cap hit...once we get into the high 60's and low 70's it starts looking like a great one.

Those contracts you mention are all about twice as long as Hortons' is so I really have no idea how they have any place in this discussion. Enitrely different situations

As for his contract looking bad compared to other players of his calibre...I'd be interested to see these names and what sort of contracts they're on.

Have to remmeber it was a UFA contract, there's always going to be a premium on signing UFA's...it's the nature of the business. Guys who can negotiate with 30 teams are going to get paid more than those who can negotiate with 1. In a free market there's no real "overpaying" because whatever one team is willing to pay a guy for his services becomes that players' market value. Quite literally his value was established by the market.

In fact, a great comparable is Jeff Carter. Same draft year. Very close cap hits. Very close career numbers as well.

Carter got 11 years and a 5.27 cap hit. He is now 2 years into that deal, so 9 years left versus 7. Obviously Carter would have gotten a higher cap hit if he hadn't gotten so many years.

Carter is a more prolific goal scorer, but doesn't have the physical edge to his game that Horton does.

Again, I really don't like Horton that much at all. And he's had concussion issues but in UFA to get a guy of his calibre for 5.3 is not an overpayment at all, and a contract that takes him to just 36 years of age is hardly worth fretting over either. He's a real solid top 6 guy though who plays a pretty versatile game and isn't a negative defensively (though he's not even close to the great 2 way player some in here made him out to be while he was still on the market). In this day's NHL that's worth 5.3 per year easily and if giving him an extra year or two gives you that 5.3 cap hit versus something like 6.5 than where's the downside?

Does this mean I'd take him over Pacorietty? Not at all. But I don't have to trash on him and call him overrated and overpaid (he certainly isn't compared to his comparable peers in the NHL.) to pump Max's tires either.

I'd like to see Pacioretty have more of a physical edge to his game next season. The teams' top 6 needs him too, and it will open up more ice for his linemates.

[maddienmike]

Max gets it done,he score goals and gets points,I don't see why the hell a player has to be more physical just because some fans say that's what they want.Why should they put themselves in danger, when they are already doing what they are paid for,I don't like the physical side of the game and there are a lot like me.

Just keep on doing what your doing Max [edit].

GO MAX GO

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

I call Horton overrated because he gets more credit than he deserves from a lot of people. And Pacioretty doesn't get enough credit, that's why I say he's underrated. I don't get why that's so hard to understand.

As for Horton being overpaid, I just don't like the term, that's all.

[BigTed3]

I call Horton overrated because he gets more credit than he deserves from a lot of people. And Pacioretty doesn't get enough credit, that's why I say he's underrated. I don't get why that's so hard to understand.

As for Horton being overpaid, I just don't like the term, that's all.

I like Horton as a player and wanted to acquire him from Florida before Boston got their hands on him. Since then, the injuries have become a concern for me, but even putting those aside, I'd agree that the term on his contract is an issue.

With respect to players being overrated or underrated, I actually find we have a lot of players in Montreal whose skill level is underrated, and I'd add the likes of Eller, Plekanec, and Subban to Pacioretty. Subban had a breakout year attention-wise and will hopefully get the respect he's due, but Plekanec, for example, has played his whole career without really getting much recognition. Part of it, I believe, is that players' reputations tend to get exaggerated for playoff performance, either because they came through in the clutch or because they were on a team that did well in the playoffs. Travis Moen and Scott Gomez are two guys whose reputations exceeded their actual talent levels because they had been on teams having playoff success in the past. Similarly, Horton's value has been boosted by being part of the Bruins' success. It's not a knock on his actual skill level because he truly is a good player, but I'd personally prefer to have Pacioretty, and Pacman doesn't get the same recognition, one because he's a bit younger and two because he hasn't delivered clutch performances in the playoffs on a stage when people are paying attention. After last season everyone knows about Bryan Bickell, but while his value was given a huge boost, it doesn't really mean he'd have the same value as Pacman or another power forward if put in the same situation. If the Habs as a whole put together some playoff success, everyone's value here will go up.

[KeepsItReal]

The term on Horton is a bit unpalatable, but when you look around at the deals in the league nowadays it's not bad at all. It's the way the sport is going. Long term deals, with lower cap hits as a way to "justify" the lengths.

Look at Horton though...he signs for 7 years at 5.3.

Meanwhile Clarkson gets 7 years and 5.25.

Who would you rather have out of those 2 guys? To me, Horton actually got a very reasonable deal considering he was the best UFA forward available. And this isn't a 33 year old guy getting a 7 year deal. He's just 29 next season.

Injuries are concerning with him, but what can you do?

I'd still take Pacioretty over him...but he's not really overpaid at all, and if someone wants to argue he is overpaid, than they can't really call Pacioretty's contract any sort of a discount at all since there's just 800K separating them.

The whole underrated/overrated thing becomes quite a bit convoluted anyways. It's all based on peoples' personal opinions and who they watch a lot of.

A fan out East is going to overrate Claude Giroux while underrating Logan Couture, while a fan out West is going to overrate Matt Duchene and underrate Derek Stepan. None of those names really mean anything in relation to one another, the point is it's all kind of irrelevant.

[KeepsItReal]

Pacioretty signed a very lucrative deal for a guy with just one breakout top 6 season, but in exchange for long term security the Habs get the luxury of potentially severely underpaying him in the 4th, 5th, and 6th seasons of the deal.

Hopefully he starts using his body more...like he used to when he was trying to break into the league. But if not, doesn't mean he'll be a disappointment.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

Just because other GM's give stupid contracts to players doesn't mean it's okay to do so. Clarkson's deal is very bad and I'd take Horton over him in a heartbeat.

As for Pacman, this is actually related to the whole Subban thing. While Pacman only had one breakout season, I think he showed enough in that season and the half season before to prove that he can be as good if not better than that in the future. So we signed him longer but since he didn't prove much we got him on a steal. If we did the same with Subban than we would have got him on a steal too. I, personally, was actually expecting PK to end up this good.

[KeepsItReal]

Just because other GM's give stupid contracts to players doesn't mean it's okay to do so. Clarkson's deal is very bad and I'd take Horton over him in a heartbeat.

As for Pacman, this is actually related to the whole Subban thing. While Pacman only had one breakout season, I think he showed enough in that season and the half season before to prove that he can be as good if not better than that in the future. So we signed him longer but since he didn't prove much we got him on a steal. If we did the same with Subban than we would have got him on a steal too. I, personally, was actually expecting PK to end up this good.

I still don't understand how Pacioretty at 4.5 is a "steal" But Horton at 5.3 is so overpaid.

[BigTed3]

I still don't understand how Pacioretty at 4.5 is a "steal" But Horton at 5.3 is so overpaid.

I don't think the posters arguing that point are simply referring to the monetary value of the contract. Horton's contract takes him to the age of 35-36 by the end of his deal, whereas Pacioretty's takes him to 30. Sure, Pacman's deal was signed when he wasn't a UFA, but it eats up a number of UFA years. If we look at guys like Gomez and Kaberle, for example, we can see the risk of a star player hitting a wall because of age and/or injuries is higher with age, and the risk of seeing Horton decline over the course of his contract is a lot higher than Pacman's. No guarantees either way of course, and there are exception to every rule but I'll take Pacioretty heads up at this point, never mind the differences in the contracts and ages that also weigh in his favor.