2013-14 Michel Therrien and staff

[ramcharger440]

So basically in your defense you're saying it's hard to judge the coach based on how guys play (I agree) then it would be equally hard to judge which coach is better, so how can you definitely say Therrien is a better coach than Martin?

This is the funny thing about coaches, we always look for reason to blame them and faults to find with them but really they're mostly interchangeable. Therrien had a healthy, deep offensive team last year that could roll 3 legit scoring lines (Martin never had that), that's why we played offensively. As soon as we lost a few of those guys this year and we had less depth, we were just as passive as we were under Martin. You coach to what you have. You can't run and gun with Glen Metropolit on your 3rd line or Ryan White. When Martin had 3 offensive lines his Senators were often RIGHT at the top of the league in goals for (led the league a couple times).

The main issue with Therrien I have is personnel decisions (Martin had his issues there too). I don't know how much of a difference another coach could make. We don't have a go to offensive forward, it's tough to win consistently without guys like that. Scoring by committee will always be fickle, look at the 07-08 team. A couple injuries throws EVERYTHING out of whack.

umm i did not say he was definatly better.. i said i felt he was better. i also felt going into this year we would struggle more than last year. the fact that some players are not playing up to snuff is on them. coaches just set systems and on gameday make the calls fo who plays when. once they are out there the players are the ones to do the work or not. i had no real issues with martin as coach, although i don't think i would invite him to a party!

[I1IscottieI1I]

So what the difference between the 13/14 team and 12/13 ( before they started to play badly at the end of the year )

eller galchenyuk gallagher and bournival

take away their goals/assists and this team is a bottom feeder

[Guest]

eller galchenyuk gallagher and bournival

take away their goals/assists and this team is a bottom feeder

To be fair,,,,if you took away most teams top line/scorers, they most likely would be bottom feeders.

[ramcharger440]

and we were! those kids are the best thing to happen here in 20 years

[Manatee-X]

I'll step out on a limb and say that I would absolutely take Martin over Therrien. I always thought that Jacques did a great job with the personnel that he was given, and we often ended up farther up the standings than we probably deserved to be. As was mentioned, even the year he was fired we were on the upswing after a bad (and injury-plagued) start.

No coach ever has what I would consider the perfect ice time distribution or line combinations (mostly because what I consider correct is probably different from what each of you would consider correct), but I found that Martin's largely made sense to a degree that I haven't seen with our other recent coaches. Carbo and Cunneyworth were by far the worst in this regard, but Therrien's overuse of some players and underuse of others is probably his biggest fault as a coach.

Don't get me wrong - I don't think that Therrien is a bad coach and I also don't think that if Martin were here that our team would completely turn around. But I was happy with Martin up until the day he was fired and I would take him back here in a heartbeat.

and we were! those kids are the best thing to happen here in 20 years

And there, I guess, is the one positive that came from firing JM - we got to draft Galchenyuk!

[BeanCountingHab]

Always thought Martin was underrated. It's hard to know how we would look under him with as much talent as we have now, he simply never had access to the same caliber of roster.

I'm having a hard time evaluating Therrien so far this year. He's made some decision I don't agree with, but then again a lot of them have usually stemmed from MB's bad moves. ie: you can't just not play guys that you went out and signed like Murray and Parros, you really have to give them at least a handful of games to be able to justify sitting them. Likewise, some of the icetime DD gets is frustrating but again what do you do exactly? Write off a guy you have signed for 4 years at $3.5M per? I understand the desire to try to get him going, even if it's just to make him tradeable.

Having said that, I still think we need to see better overall play than we've gotten so far this year. I also wonder about MT's influence over the moves MB made this summer. It seems obvious he would have wanted Bouillon back and he must have endorsed DD for that kind of extension to happen. Did he say 'go get me Parros and Murray?' or maybe 'Go get me a big stay at home defenseman and a fighter?'

[ramcharger440]

i think the last part of your statement is close to the reality of things. it would be completly reasonable for MT. to ask for a big hard hitting D man and some more toughness. the guy's he got may or may not be who he was looking for. i would rather we had not signed Briere or extended Drewiske. Murray once in a while or for injuries is fine by me. Parros unfortunatly getting hurt like he did put him way behind which is not where a guy like him needed to be. the coach has what he has once the GM signs them now he has to find a way to make it work. i will say we have better talent overall now that when JM. was here, and we are a bit bigger.

[jedimaas]

This team is a lot better then the one Martin had to work with.

This.

[kinot-1]

Instead of breaking up our scoring line, it might be nice if MT could keep them together, ( EGG line) and just work on the other 3 lines to get some semblance of scoring on those lines. That way,,,we just "might" score some goals.

Sarcasm implied.

[Guest Regis2]

eller galchenyuk gallagher and bournival

take away their goals/assists and this team is a bottom feeder

E G G were on the team last year

The team well until say the final 10 games of the year

Why is the team , struggling this year.

Was last year's early success during a shortened season an abnormaility

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

I don't think we're a second place team yet(but we're close) like last year but not a 8th place team either. More like a 5th or 6th place team.

It's only been 21 games.

[jennifer_rocket]

I don't think we're a second place team yet(but we're close) like last year but not a 8th place team either. More like a 5th or 6th place team.

It's only been 21 games.

21 games is a decent sample size. 1/4 of the year.

[ramcharger440]

Patches not scoring neither is bourque gio pleks or dd. all in all we are doing ok when you take that into account! if just one of them would wake up it would be nice.

[Guest habs1952]

Patches not scoring neither is bourque gio pleks or dd. all in all we are doing ok when you take that into account! if just one of them would wake up it would be nice.

I agree it would be nice to see those 5 contributing a bit more but I'm not necessarily going to blame individual players(except for DD for his lack of size, not lack of skill) for their funk. I look at the lines as five man units including the D-men, and really, when you have four or five D-men besides Markov and Subban who aren't producing offensively the forwards playing with those pairings, when in the offensive zone, are trying to score playing 3 on 5 hockey. That's a ridiculous task to have your forwards play game in and game out.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

21 games is a decent sample size. 1/4 of the year.

We've been slumping for like 10 of those games. I think a combination of bad luck and players not performing up to expectations(most of whom I think will rebound) is what's happening and I think we'll be better now.

But that's just me.

[pleky14-mtl]

they were producing, but all he does is destroying the teams chemistry and whats working just to get DD going!! Bournival-Pleks, Gallagher-Galchenyuk.. i'm not against changing lines when the team is losing, but you don't destroy whats already working!!

[Guest Regis2]

We've been slumping for like 10 of those games. I think a combination of bad luck and players not performing up to expectations(most of whom I think will rebound) is what's happening and I think we'll be better now.

But that's just me.

Specifically which players and up to whose expectations ?

Maybe those expectations are too high

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

Specifically which players and up to whose expectations ?

Maybe those expectations are too high

Pacioretty, DD, lately Bourque, Briere although he seems to be doing better, and Bouillon. For a guy like Bouillon, maybe that's just him aging and this is it. But the rest should be producing more IMO.

[Habberwacky]

Ahhhh. Was there a slump? Quite a performance against a very good team. We got a lot of offense from a lot of different places tonight. Could be the start of things to come. Go Habs. DD finally getting some production and every line with a goal.

[jennifer_rocket]

Ahhhh. Was there a slump? Quite a performance against a very good team. We got a lot of offense from a lot of different places tonight. Could be the start of things to come. Go Habs. DD finally getting some production and every line with a goal.

I hope so! It'd be really sweet if the team could pickup a few more wins like last night's.

[ramcharger440]

so coach had nothing to do with the team getting going last night?

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

so coach had nothing to do with the team getting going last night?

Well the line changes worked... I'll credit him for that.

[BigTed3]

Well the line changes worked... I'll credit him for that.

Line changes did work well last night. Obviously the DD line was the best it has looked all season. Briere looked pretty good on the Plekanec line as well, albeit it that was Therrien's second choice. But what really helped our team out was actually finishing chances at the net. You can argue that has nothing to do with Therrien, you can argue that our earlier poor shooting performance had nothing to do with Therrien either... it goes both ways. What still concerns me from last night's game though was how much difficulty we're having getting the puck out of our own end. Still very few open outlet passes, with wingers floating too deep down the ice or standing still along the boards. There really aren't sufficient options for our D men and that's leading to a lot of unnecessary icings and turnovers. The coaching staff still has work to do in that regard because we won't continue to shoot at such a high percentage on a nightly basis.

[ramcharger440]

is it coaching or is it the players? they have to do what they are asked to it sure looks like the message gets delivered often enough. the players are cheating patches was and bourque really does.

[BeanCountingHab]

Line changes did work well last night. Obviously the DD line was the best it has looked all season. Briere looked pretty good on the Plekanec line as well, albeit it that was Therrien's second choice. But what really helped our team out was actually finishing chances at the net. You can argue that has nothing to do with Therrien, you can argue that our earlier poor shooting performance had nothing to do with Therrien either... it goes both ways. What still concerns me from last night's game though was how much difficulty we're having getting the puck out of our own end. Still very few open outlet passes, with wingers floating too deep down the ice or standing still along the boards. There really aren't sufficient options for our D men and that's leading to a lot of unnecessary icings and turnovers. The coaching staff still has work to do in that regard because we won't continue to shoot at such a high percentage on a nightly basis.

I found a lot of that was in the 3rd period when we had already run away with it. Also Emelin struggled a bit but it's really to be expected in only his second game back and the first one facing the tougher minutes.