2013-14 Michel Therrien and staff

[jedimaas]

right now, today, I trust PK more than any other defender on our team in any situation. That doesn't mean that I think he's perfect or that he can't or won't improve, it just means that if we want to win our hockey games this year we should be playing him as much as we can get away with.

Bingo.

I suppose its a good thing that 90%+ of the criticism of Therrien comes down to this one thing, but its frustrating that it relates to arguably our best player.

[roy_133]

Agreed, the talk is something worth noting but until we see how it plays out, it doesn't amount to anything. I'll say this, I've never seen a superstar treated like Subban gets treated by EVERYONE. Habs management/coaching staff, mainstream media, league officials and even at times fellow players. It's insane. I think it was Brian Wilde who raised a good point, all the talk of the triple low five being flamboyant seemed to center around Subban and not Price, who was 50% of it. It's just interesting and troubling. I think we all have our theories on why.

On the usage, I'm telling you a time will come when we blow a key game late with our best player (by far) watching. It's indefensible. PK isn't just our best offensive DMan, he's our best defensive one too. He's the only guy with that speed/strength/intelligence combo on this roster and one of a handful of guys in the league. Play him, play him 28 minutes a night and play him in EVERY big spot. Up by a goal, down by a goal, tied. Play him.

[ramcharger440]

what if we play him so much that he breaks? if we make the playoffs he is the guy i want playing 28-30 min. i know people are going to say he can take it. but for how many years. we are not going to win anything this year why take the risk with out top asset?

[Noob616]

what if we play him so much that he breaks? if we make the playoffs he is the guy i want playing 28-30 min. i know people are going to say he can take it. but for how many years. we are not going to win anything this year why take the risk with out top asset?

Because we don't want to holding him back from becoming the best player he can be. Maybe we look like real contenders next year and we save Subban all year long and let Diaz blow games for us late. Then when the playoffs come around Subban has spent the whole season off the penalty kill and isn't ready to jump in.

Subban is a physical freak. If Ryan Suter can handle the big minutes then PK sure as hell can.

[BigTed3]

It's not just Therrien's press conference that are troubling, it's that he clearly coaches in a way that reflect a belief in what he's telling the media. What's more concerning is that Therrien had a history of bashing Subban when he was a media member himself, in a position where criticizing P.K. was not in any way a motivational tool. It just bothers me that Therrien takes every opportunity he can get to take a cheap shot at Subban and he often does it without naming him by name, simply saying, "our D made a bad pinch that cost us the game" or "we need to learn not to take selfish penalties" or something to that effect whenever it's PK who does something wrong. Yet when Murray took a bad late-game penalty, Therrien's presser was about how Murray plays a solid physical game. When Markov blows defensive coverage, there's nothing said specifically about it. I am convinced Therrien goes out of his way to elaborate on the negatives of PK Subban, as many members of the media and public do too. As I said, I'm not sure why... is it because Therrien wants to win the battle of egos? Is it because he doesn't like Subban as a person? Is it because he wants to make it easier for Bergevin to negotiate a contract? I honestly can't pinpoint it, but to me, it comes down to either an unnecessary targeting of the player or else a failure on the part of the coach to recognize his abilities, neither of which I'm willing to put up with in a head coach.

[ramcharger440]

good thing for him your not the gm! time will tell us what the truth is after one of them is gone.

[roy_133]

what if we play him so much that he breaks? if we make the playoffs he is the guy i want playing 28-30 min. i know people are going to say he can take it. but for how many years. we are not going to win anything this year why take the risk with out top asset?

It would make sense if we saw Therrien use PK in those roles come last playoffs but he didn't. A few issues with that theory, if you're going to try and cut PK's minutes back to rest him (at 24) why do you start with key PKs and the last minute of 1 goal games? Those are absolutely the moments your best player should always play.

Secondly, instead of playing Subban in that role, a young horse in his prime, Therrien opts for the 34 (turning 35) year old Markov with countless serious injuries in the last 5 years. We all saw Markov wear down badly last year. I don't have a problem with Markov playing those big spots (should be with Subban) but the fact Therrien is running Markov out there as our number 1 DMan kind of debunks the concept of the rest theory for me.

I think Ted has it bang on.

[habby67]

I never liked this choice of coaches from the get go. We need to instill some more youth on this team on D. I believe we need a younger coach with fresh philsophy. What the heck do I know though. All I know is someone needs to light a fire under their behinds and I don't mean in a way that chastises a player to the media. I know the lustre with Roy in Colorado wil fade, but in my opinion, it was a big mistake to not hire Patrick.

[BeanCountingHab]

He's done a lot of good things, we play an effective system and I do think he's actually a pretty good motivator. The personnel issues, though few, are pretty big red flags though. Overall, it just seems like he's not willing to lean on his top guys when he needs to. Things should get better when some guys get back from injury and we have a competent 4th line and 3rd pairing.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

So Therrien finally gets it right and sits out Desharnais... but what exactly is the message? By sitting him out in favor of another player with small stature they do not want David concerned that his size is an issue for the team?

IMO his size is an issue and also one that affects his usefulness to the team going forward. I know they can't just come out and say that (it would be demeaning I guess). But players like Desharnais, and likely Bouillon, should see the writing on the wall on a team considered small by many. And just maybe so should Michel Therrien and Marc Bergevin if they haven't already. It is time to move along and for management to realize the error of their ways (particularly Bergevin for extending both players).

[Manatee-X]

So Therrien finally gets it right and sits out Desharnais... but what exactly is the message? By sitting him out in favor of another player with small stature they do not want David concerned that his size is an issue for the team?

IMO his size is an issue and also one that affects his usefulness to the team going forward. I know they can't just come out and say that (it would be demeaning I guess). But players like Desharnais, and likely Bouillon, should see the writing on the wall on a team considered small by many. And just maybe so should Michel Therrien and Marc Bergevin if they haven't already. It is time to move along and for management to realize the error of their ways (particularly Bergevin for extending both players).

I think the only message being sent is a simple one: "You're not getting the results that we need". The size of the replacement has nothing to do with it. Gionta is small and plays well, Gallagher is small and plays well, and neither of those guys is in any danger of being cut.

Desharnais is small and played well a few years ago, which is why he has the contract that he does. His size is an issue only insomuch as it keeps him from producing. The message isn't "you're too small" or "we don't care that you're small" or anything like that, as far as I can tell. It's the same message as we'd see for any other player who's benched: "You need to play better or you'll be playing less".

[ramcharger440]

and lot's of other guy's can probably do more with your minutes!

[tony5775]

Would really like to see Guy Boucher take his place. But most likely its a little early for that to happen. Just know that Therrien does not have the insight to take us to the next level.

[BigTed3]

Possibly Therrien's worst-coached game tonight, and many of his decisions are becoming tiring.

- Avoiding playing Subban on the PK and at the end of the game yet again... which coach in his right mind sits his best player in such situations?

- Throwing out St-Pierre for the PP

- Having Parros out on the ice in the last 10 minutes of the 3rd in a one-goal game, especially after his last few performances, leading to the tying goal

- Opting for Plekanec, a poor shootout player, when he could have gone to Bournival or Gionta instead

- Maintaining Galchenyuk at center when he struggled not only in the circle but at playing the two-way game of a center

- Continually throwing out Bouillon, Murray, Diaz, etc. in key situations

I'm really beginning to feel that Therrien's decisions are costing us points. The team didn't play that poorly tonight and we ended up dropping a tight game, possibly because of some of those decisions.

[Noob616]

To be fair I don't think he had a choice with the penalty shot choice. TSN was saying on that type of call it has to go to the last guy to touch the puck.

Rest of it is getting pretty inexcusable though. In a game where we were getting beaten 64%-34% in possession we had our best possession defenseman on the bench in place of Douglas Murray. Hard to keep losing games with Subban on the bench, Parros getting shifts late in games, it just doesn't seem to end. What was St-Pierre doing on the PP late in the game, it just doesn't seem like there's any sense behind some of these decisions.

[roy_133]

Tony Marinaro ‏@TonyMarinaro2m

BTW, PK Subban only played 20:52. Gorges played 23:41. Diaz played 24:04. For the Blues, Pietrangelo played 30:49, Bouwmeester played 29:06

Good example by a veteran coach on how to use your highend DMen in a tight game.

[Guest Regis2]

There's one thing we never considered, maybe the demand to play Marky over PK is coming from higher up. MB may have plans on dealing Marky and wants him to get as much exposure as possible to up his value.

At this stage in his career I would think other teams know what Markov brings

[Shawn1990]

St. Pierre with more power-play time than Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Eller, Pacioretty, Bourque and Plekanec.

(from twitter.com/All_Habs)

[Noob616]

St. Pierre with more power-play time than Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Eller, Pacioretty, Bourque and Plekanec.

(from twitter.com/All_Habs)

Misleading with only one PP but still it's ridiculous he was out there at all.

[BigTed3]

To be fair I don't think he had a choice with the penalty shot choice. TSN was saying on that type of call it has to go to the last guy to touch the puck.

Rest of it is getting pretty inexcusable though. In a game where we were getting beaten 64%-34% in possession we had our best possession defenseman on the bench in place of Douglas Murray. Hard to keep losing games with Subban on the bench, Parros getting shifts late in games, it just doesn't seem to end. What was St-Pierre doing on the PP late in the game, it just doesn't seem like there's any sense behind some of these decisions.

As I said in the GDT, the rule of last player to touch the puck is in the NHL rulebook and pretty clearly ONLY applies to situations where a player has a breakaway. This was not the case here. In this situation, Therrien could have selected any player on the ice and went with the player who was 4 for 25 in shootouts.

With respect to the penalty kill and powerplay, you might think a coach would squeeze in a shift on special teams for his lesser players in games where there are a ton of penalties, to keep everyone fresh. In a game where there was not much special team action, why not use your best guys regularly? Why not have, as you said, your best defensive pairing talent-wise, point-wise, and possession-wise on the ice in the last 3-4 minutes? Not a single shift for Subban in the last 4 minutes of regulation, and all the numbers point to his being our best guy any way you cut it. At this point, Therrien's making decisions that are costing us points in games. If he had a .750 winning percentage, that would be one thing, but we're a team treading around .500 and that's not good enough.

[Manatee-X]

I was only able to catch the first period last night. Did Subban have some kind of gaffe or mistake that could at least start to explain why he was on the bench at the end of the game? Because I just checked the boxscore and Ted's exactly right - Subban's last shift ended with 4:38 left. He was also on the bench for the last two minutes of overtime, where you'd think you'd want to have him out there even if he WAS only a one-dimensional offensive player.

I just don't get it.

And yes, I do realize that it's not as though having Subban out there means that we'd have definitely scored and won the game - chances are we still would have gone to OT and lost in the shootout. There's only so much difference a coach can make with his lines: at some point the entire team has to take responsibility. The thing is, though, this is the Therrien thread and it's his job to put the players in the best position to win. I'd actually argue that, while the game is being played, that's his only job. And right now it seems, to me at least, that during the games he's failing at his only job.

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

Well things looked okay when the team was winning early on but with all the injuries, and since the return of some players signed by the GM, things have gone downhill fast. It is hard not to question the nature of the coach and his staff in the crunch though... and some decisions seem to be inexcusable boardering on laughable.

I, for one, was not happy from the start with the selection of Michel Therrien to be the head coach of the Habs. But like many of us was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after just one season. But now I fear what worried me the most about the selection may come true. It was a mistake.

[HabsRuleForever]

I was only able to catch the first period last night. Did Subban have some kind of gaffe or mistake that could at least start to explain why he was on the bench at the end of the game? Because I just checked the boxscore and Ted's exactly right - Subban's last shift ended with 4:38 left. He was also on the bench for the last two minutes of overtime, where you'd think you'd want to have him out there even if he WAS only a one-dimensional offensive player.

I just don't get it.

And yes, I do realize that it's not as though having Subban out there means that we'd have definitely scored and won the game - chances are we still would have gone to OT and lost in the shootout. There's only so much difference a coach can make with his lines: at some point the entire team has to take responsibility. The thing is, though, this is the Therrien thread and it's his job to put the players in the best position to win. I'd actually argue that, while the game is being played, that's his only job. And right now it seems, to me at least, that during the games he's failing at his only job.

No there was no huge gaffe or mistake on Subban's part. Only on Therrien's part for not having him out there.

[roy_133]

I was only able to catch the first period last night. Did Subban have some kind of gaffe or mistake that could at least start to explain why he was on the bench at the end of the game? Because I just checked the boxscore and Ted's exactly right - Subban's last shift ended with 4:38 left. He was also on the bench for the last two minutes of overtime, where you'd think you'd want to have him out there even if he WAS only a one-dimensional offensive player.

I just don't get it.

And yes, I do realize that it's not as though having Subban out there means that we'd have definitely scored and won the game - chances are we still would have gone to OT and lost in the shootout. There's only so much difference a coach can make with his lines: at some point the entire team has to take responsibility. The thing is, though, this is the Therrien thread and it's his job to put the players in the best position to win. I'd actually argue that, while the game is being played, that's his only job. And right now it seems, to me at least, that during the games he's failing at his only job.

Not a rare thing exactly, when we're sitting on a lead or tie - PK sits. He only plays late in games we need a goal or a few goals to catch up.

Arpon Basu ‏@ArponBasu9h

Subban at end of last 4GP #Habs got points: v STL, 0 shifts last 4:38 reg. time; v DAL, 1 last 5:18; v NYR, 1 last 4:17; v ANA 1 last 5:00.

[BeanCountingHab]

No there was no huge gaffe or mistake on Subban's part. Only on Therrien's part for not having him out there.

Yup, no gaffe or mistake, we were just on the penalty kill a few times, and why would give our best penalty killer and overall best player PK time when we can throw Murray and Bouillon out there?

Watching Hitchcock's deployment in contrast really highlights how abismal MT's player usage has become. Even Antichambre are seeing it with Subban, it's rediculous. I'm getting extremely frustrated and losing faith that MT will figure it out. If he wants to keep his job, he'd better.