2013-14 Michel Therrien and staff

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

do you really think roy would have lasted here with the press in mtl and a team of tiny forwards?

Well a few things may have been different had he been offered the job that he wanted, which was GM and coach. But Geoff Molson looked elswhere outside the organization... for whatever reason. It is possible the team may have looked different by now had Roy been given the reins. He may not have extended both Bouillon and Desharnais. He may have decided to go with even more youth. I doubt he would have signed any of the players Bergevin has this past UFA season. But that is all moot since he wasn't the chosen one.

[ramcharger440]

we will never know

[FirstStar]

Well a few things may have been different had he been offered the job that he wanted, which was GM and coach. But Geoff Molson looked elswhere outside the organization... for whatever reason. It is possible the team may have looked different by now had Roy been given the reins. He may not have extended both Bouillon and Desharnais. He may have decided to go with even more youth. I doubt he would have signed any of the players Bergevin has this past UFA season. But that is all moot since he wasn't the chosen one.

Also, the Avs set it up so that Roy was more than coach, not quite as much responsibility as when he coached and co-owned his "Q" team the ramparts.

Joe Sakic made sure there wouldn't be people who Roy would butt heads with. He played with Roy, so he knows about his character.

Not sure if the habs would've been willing to re-organize their front office and staff to accommodate Roy like the Avs did.

Just like boucher, Roy needs to get his feet wet in a weaker market before trying his hand in a hockey mad market. Yes Quebec and the "Q" is intense in terms of hockey, but it still isn't the NHL.

[Guest habs1952]

Geoff Molson already said playoff qualification is the minimum target, when he did the management overhaul.

Therrien will go if Habs aren't in the playoffs next April. MB will then be put on "probation" and replaced if the same failure is repeated two years in a row in 2015.

The truth is the team has the financial resources to hire and field the best players. We're not Phoenix or Nashville. Habs are the 3rd richest NHL team. It's up to the manager to make best use of these resources and take the rap if he can't deliver the results.

Even if the Habs made a billion dollars a year they are still constrained by the salary cap. They can't just go out and toss big bucks at every superstar free agent that becomes available. It's a long process to get back to or near the top of the league and takes patience. Another issue is the players we'd like to get rid of, nobody else wants just as we don't want their trash.

[FirstStar]

Even if the Habs made a billion dollars a year they are still constrained by the salary cap. They can't just go out and toss big bucks at every superstar free agent that becomes available. It's a long process to get back to or near the top of the league and takes patience. Another issue is the players we'd like to get rid of, nobody else wants just as we don't want their trash.

Exactly, back in the day we could stock pile players and did it. But with the salary cap, it's not about your revenue, but making the most of the money and players available under cap. No kidding, we finished dead last in the east just over a year ago. Rome wasn't built in a day.

MergenTatara, is there a source to back up the claims that G Molson said all these things?

[HabsRuleForever]

do you really think roy would have lasted here with the press in mtl and a team of tiny forwards?

Or do you think the team of tiny forwards would have lasted? As far as the press I think Roy would have been fine. That being said the Av's are a different team than the Habs.

[powerplay2009]

Also, the Avs set it up so that Roy was more than coach, not quite as much responsibility as when he coached and co-owned his "Q" team the ramparts.

Joe Sakic made sure there wouldn't be people who Roy would butt heads with. He played with Roy, so he knows about his character.

Not sure if the habs would've been willing to re-organize their front office and staff to accommodate Roy like the Avs did.

Just like boucher, Roy needs to get his feet wet in a weaker market before trying his hand in a hockey mad market. Yes Quebec and the "Q" is intense in terms of hockey, but it still isn't the NHL.

There are actually quite a few similarities between the Roy hire in Colorado and Therrien here in Montreal IMO. Both teams had/have a core in place that can compete. Both were in a pretty major front office overhaul. Both teams were probably better than their record the previous year indicated.

I don't think Colorado changed their front office so much as to accommodate Roy as to put a new group in charge of an underachieving franchise IMO. It was the right place and time for them to hire Roy, and I think it was a good move. I'm not so sure it would have worked so well for us, though. It just didn't quite seem like as good a fit.

With the similarities, it's obviously no stretch to say Roy would be a better man for the job, but at the same time it's easy to look at a team like Colorado's record off an incredibly hot start and say "obviously its on Roy, we should have hired him", but given their unusually high shooting and save percentages 5 on 5 this year, I'll reserve judgement until they regress and Roy faces some tough times. The Avalanche are also a different team than we are, so I don't think a copy-paste analogy is totally fitting.

As a follow up to Therrien though, I think Boucher or Roy if available would be pretty good hires.

[FirstStar]

do you really think roy would have lasted here with the press in mtl and a team of tiny forwards?

I'm curious to see how the habs would look today if they had hired Larry Robinson.

Sure is helping his current team.

Difference between Roy and Larry, Larry has experience and even won a cup at the NHL level. He also offered his services many times to the habs, he can only take "no" for so long before moving on.

[ramcharger440]

Or do you think the team of tiny forwards would have lasted? As far as the press I think Roy would have been fine. That being said the Av's are a different team than the Habs.

most of them would probably still have been here not all but most

[Graeme-1]

Just like boucher, Roy needs to get his feet wet in a weaker market before trying his hand in a hockey mad market. Yes Quebec and the "Q" is intense in terms of hockey, but it still isn't the NHL.

I'm not really sure I agree with that. Without a doubt, Roy would cause some controversies and say some things that get him in a bit of trouble (probalby similar to Torterella); but in the end does that really matter? As long as the GM ignores the media (and you pretty much have to in Montreal) all that really matters is performance. I imagine Roy in Montreal would be similar to Torts in New York or Vancouver: yes he'll have stuff written about him, but as long as he's winning, who cares? I'm also not sure he's going to "learn" in a weaker market: Roy will be just as unfiltered 5 years from now, and he's under just as much pressure in Colorado to get results.

One thing I don't doubt is Roy would stick up for his players. If he's asked if Subban should make the Olympic team the response would probably be something like "are you an idiot, of course" (I can't come up with his snappy comebacks - but you get the point).

In any case, my point wasn't that Roy should necessarily be our coach; just that even given the Francophone constraint I'm not sure MT was necessarily the best choice (better than Carbonneau who was apparantly runner-up though).

[BeanCountingHab]

I'll be curious to wait and see how the Avs look over a full season.

[roy_133]

I'll be curious to wait and see how the Avs look over a full season.

Yeah, Mario Tremblay had a GREAT start with the Habs. I never judge a coach until their first few bouts of adversity. It's pretty easy to coach when everything is going well.

[BeanCountingHab]

Yeah, Mario Tremblay had a GREAT start with the Habs. I never judge a coach until their first few bouts of adversity. It's pretty easy to coach when everything is going well.

For additional resources, see Carboneau, Guy

[roy_133]

@MAGodin45m

Michel Therrien: "There is no doubt in my mind that Carey is going to be on the Olympic team."

Found this quote interesting after refusing to answer on Subban and saying that's upto hockey Canada and he wouldn't comment.

[FirstStar]

@MAGodin45m

Michel Therrien: "There is no doubt in my mind that Carey is going to be on the Olympic team."

Found this quote interesting after refusing to answer on Subban and saying that's upto hockey Canada and he wouldn't comment.

I wouldn't read too much into it.

Right now Carey of all the Canadian born tenders, is playing the best hockey, atm.

It's not like they're lacking right handed off-dmen. I think Subban should be there, but in all honesty, I don't think they could make a bad decision. They have a plethora of dmen they could choose from. Tenders, not so much... We have Ward, Lou, MAF and Carey as the big names.

I don't think it was meant to be a knock on Subban, more a remark on how well Carey's doing this season and he has been excellent. Slim chance we win the cup this season, but there's definitely a good shot for gold at the Olympics. Btw, not everything MT says directly relates to Subban, there are 22 other players on the team.

Apparently last game, Stevey-Y and a few others from the Olympic committee were at the game. Too bad Carey couldn't pull off a win-Actually, too bad our shooters couldn't score to help Carey get the win. Carey can only do so much and he did what he was suppose to do.

[roy_133]

Well it's an obvious statement, Carey will be there and I'm not worried about the comment it's not a huge deal, just seemed odd of him to say he wouldn't comment on hockey Canada's decisions and turn around a week later and comment. With all eyes on the him and Subban thing he should be pretty careful not to stir things up. Even the slightest perceived slight will turn into something. He refused to comment about Subban's candidacy, the smart thing to do would have been to do the same about Price's, IMO. Makes sure there's no story or questions.

[FirstStar]

Well it's an obvious statement, Carey will be there and I'm not worried about the comment it's not a huge deal, just seemed odd of him to say he wouldn't comment on hockey Canada's decisions and turn around a week later and comment. With all eyes on the him and Subban thing he should be pretty careful not to stir things up. Even the slightest perceived slight will turn into something. He refused to comment about Subban's candidacy, the smart thing to do would have been to do the same about Price's, IMO. Makes sure there's no story or questions.

PK's agent and MB have started contract talks.

I'm not surprised they're playing their cards close to their chest and have their poker faces on.

Even negotiating the sale of a house, you don't want to appear too eager so you have some bargaining power.

Pump him up too much, then you have no negotiating power. It's nothing personal against Subban, just the way business and negotiations work.

[jedimaas]

Well it's an obvious statement, Carey will be there and I'm not worried about the comment it's not a huge deal, just seemed odd of him to say he wouldn't comment on hockey Canada's decisions and turn around a week later and comment. With all eyes on the him and Subban thing he should be pretty careful not to stir things up. Even the slightest perceived slight will turn into something. He refused to comment about Subban's candidacy, the smart thing to do would have been to do the same about Price's, IMO. Makes sure there's no story or questions.

It almost seems calculated. I am probably reading too much into this stuff but great coaches in the past (Bowman was a genius at this) would often say off the wall or obviously controversial things to take the heat off of a player or a situation. We, as always, only have what we can see to go on. For all we know there are underlying things happening (injury, lack of confidence, who knows) that Subban AND Therrien are trying to overshadow with "le debate" as its become.

[powerplay2009]

It's not like they're lacking right handed off-dmen. I think Subban should be there, but in all honesty, I don't think they could make a bad decision. They have a plethora of dmen they could choose from. Tenders, not so much... We have Ward, Lou, MAF and Carey as the big names.

Apparently last game, Stevey-Y and a few others from the Olympic committee were at the game. Too bad Carey couldn't pull off a win-Actually, too bad our shooters couldn't score to help Carey get the win. Carey can only do so much and he did what he was suppose to do.

Well, Price is the obvious starter for Canada ATM. Of course, if somebody like Lou or Crawford, or even Smith gets hot in late January that can change (and rightfully so).

On defense though, I might have to disagree to an extent. We have a wealth of defensemen, espeicially righties, that the world should be jealous of, but PK's combination of speed, puck possession, and strength along with his vastly underrated defensive play should make him a lock, and if someone like Letang goes instead because he's putting up points on a team stacked with forwards, then I will be honestly really upset. Its not like Yzerman can build a bad defense, but I want the best, and that includes PK Subban.

And with Stevie-Y being at the game, honestly I think our team did PK and Carey a favor in regard to Olympic chances. They were the two most dominant players on the ice from either team IMO, and the fact that our team was so bad made them look even better, so I imagine they raised his eyebrows a few times to say the least. Not the kind of silver lining we want, but it's something.

[FirstStar]

Well, Price is the obvious starter for Canada ATM. Of course, if somebody like Lou or Crawford, or even Smith gets hot in late January that can change (and rightfully so).

On defense though, I might have to disagree to an extent. We have a wealth of defensemen, espeicially righties, that the world should be jealous of, but PK's combination of speed, puck possession, and strength along with his vastly underrated defensive play should make him a lock, and if someone like Letang goes instead because he's putting up points on a team stacked with forwards, then I will be honestly really upset. Its not like Yzerman can build a bad defense, but I want the best, and that includes PK Subban.

And with Stevie-Y being at the game, honestly I think our team did PK and Carey a favor in regard to Olympic chances. They were the two most dominant players on the ice from either team IMO, and the fact that our team was so bad made them look even better, so I imagine they raised his eyebrows a few times to say the least. Not the kind of silver lining we want, but it's something.

I think PK Subban should be in Socchi, but the Olympic committee have a mould/system they're trying to follow. You can load a team with the best players available (which we've done in the past), without taking other important factors into consideration, such as chemistry or international play. Has happened in the past where they simply went with the best, without taking chemistry, experience in international play into consideration and we didn't even make it to the medal round. Just loading a team with stars doesn't automatically translate into success.

One thing they also have to take into consideration is the larger ice surfaces (anyone remember progner? ), the communication between d partners has to be really solid. There's so much more ice out there, miscommunication between teammates can end with the puck in the back of the net. They may rather stick with a Seabrook/Keith pairing because those 2 have played together so long and even during international play. PK or another dman could be better players, doesn't mean they'll necessarily gel with their new linemates the way Keith and seabrook gel.

I'm not debating PK's talent, he's definitely one of the most talent dmen in the league. But it wouldn't be the first time a star was left off the team. In 87, think it was either stevey-Y or Shanny, regardless, they should've been a lock to represent Canada, but Mike Keenan wanted a traditional team. Instead of 4 all-star lines, he wanted to have his grinders and energy guys. A few who should've been locks, were cut from the team for grinders-Ok, they ended up being some of the best grinders to play the game, but still, Stevey-Y (or shanny) was cut from the team. Guys like Sutter (who never had more than a 50 point season in his career during the 80's and 90's when goals were commonplace), Dineen, Tocchet (had one 80 point season) and Claude Lemieux (yes, super pest Lemieux), were surprisingly favoured over star players like Steve-Y.

Considering the larger ice surfaces, I would not be surprised if they go with "safer" dmen, those who'll take the safe route rather than a risk that could lead to offense. I'm not saying they're making the right or wrong choice, simply stating what I've noticed from them through the years. PK's known to take risks, due to the larger ice surfaces they may want to go with a dman who takes less chances with the puck.

They're also known to go with who they know, they like familiar faces. They were in their glory when marty was in his prime, he was Team Canada's goalie for over a decade and lately, luongo seems to be their favorite. Even if Lou is having an off year, I have a feeling he'll still be part of the team because as aforementioned, they like familiar faces.

We all think that Subban and Price should be locks, many things can affect their decisions though. If most of the staff play in the western conference, they may choose western conf players out of familiarity. Doesn't mean player "X" is better or worse, simply comes down to what they know and who they feel comfortable with.

Babcock should be part of the coaching staff and although the wings recently joined the east, he may be more familiar with western players-due to playing against them for the last decade.

There's always been controversy when choosing, cutting and naming players for international events. Many fans in Montreal were up in arms (similar to how they are now with Subban) because they didn't go with rookie sensation Patrick Roy. He had won the 86 cup in his rookie season, yet they went with Hextall, Hrudey and Fuhr. Granted Roy struggled in the 86-87 season, but the coaching staff wasn't familiar enough with Roy to take a chance on him. People in Montreal called it prejudice against French speaking players-Even though Lemieux (Claud, Mario) and Goulet were on the 87 team.

[BigTed3]

I would tend to agree with Therrien that Carey should be a lock to be on Team Canada. To me, Subban should be a lock too, but there's a lot of controversy surrounding Team Canada's brass and how much they like or dislike Subban. Therrien has only fed into that fire.

At the end of the day, I agree with roy and think Therrien should be consistent with what he's telling the media. Most coaches go out of their way to prop up their guys and say this guy deserves to win an NHL award or that guy deserves to be on the All-Star team and so on. Therrien has clearly been reluctant to do that when it comes to Subban and his chances of making Team Canada. And while one could have argued it was because he just wanted to stay out of the conversation, it's clear now that he was perfectly willing to jump in and support Carey's chances. This is undoubtedly a double standard and yet again fuels the flames that Therrien doesn't really like Subban. Subban can be as diplomatic as he wants to in the media and Therrien can refuse to discuss things time and again, but all of Therrien's actions build an argument that he dislikes Subban and is only begrudgingly going about business because he knows how good Subban is and how well he's loved by fans. Yet every opportunity Therrien has to take a cheap shot at Subban, he does. This is yet another example of Therrien subtly doing that again. We can argue about what really goes on behind closed doors, but the fact is that Therrien's silence when it comes to praising Subban and supporting him for the Olympics speaks volumes in itself.

For my part, I'll make myself perfectly clear: I don't think we've had this dominant a position player on our roster in maybe 30 years. If Subban isn't on Team Canada's roster, I will have no problem actively cheering against them. And if Subban isn't signed to a long-term deal or gets chased out of town by Therrien, my allegiance to this team will be done so long as he remains the coach. I'm as passionate a fan of this team as you will find, but after the Patrick Roy fiasco, I won't let a coach's ego run another superstar out of town and stand by in silence. I'm really hoping there's nothing to this and that Subban and Therrien can co-exist, but all signs point to that not being the case.

[roy_133]

No one is suggesting they build a team of superstars, the last 2 international Olympics (Nagano and Turin) they didn't build allstar teams, Zaumner and Kris Draper come to mind on each team. They also failed miserably in both events.

We're talking about a Norris Trophy winner, who has represented Canada twice, he had a GREAT World Junior Championship a few years ago playing with a few guys who WILL be on this roster (Tavares, Pietrangelo) and a few guys who have some degree of chance (Benn, Eberle, Kane).

Also PK probably has much or more experience on the international sized ice surface as anyone, since he played his junior hockey in Belleville, the only OHL team who plays on an international sized ice surface. His game is essentially tailor made for it, as a matter of fact.

They're bringing 8 DMen, to my understanding. Even if they feel like he's got some small warts in his game, there isn't room for him as 1 of the 8 DMen on this team? His skating and PP presence alone should make him a lock, nevermind the fact that he's very strong defensively. I know Hockey Canada does some DUMB things and I accept that but why is this even a discussion?

[BigTed3]

No one is suggesting they build a team of superstars, the last 2 international Olympics (Nagano and Turin) they didn't build allstar teams, Zaumner and Kris Draper come to mind on each team. They also failed miserably in both events.

We're talking about a Norris Trophy winner, who has represented Canada twice, he had a GREAT World Junior Championship a few years ago playing with a few guys who WILL be on this roster (Tavares, Pietrangelo) and a few guys who have some degree of chance (Benn, Eberle, Kane).

Also PK probably has much or more experience on the international sized ice surface as anyone, since he played his junior hockey in Belleville, the only OHL team who plays on an international sized ice surface. His game is essentially tailor made for it, as a matter of fact.

They're bringing 8 DMen, to my understanding. Even if they feel like he's got some small warts in his game, there isn't room for him as 1 of the 8 DMen on this team? His skating and PP presence alone should make him a lock, nevermind the fact that he's very strong defensively. I know Hockey Canada does some DUMB things and I accept that but why is this even a discussion?

Bang on. It's pretty clear to most fans, It was pretty clear to Norris voters last year. Subban is one of the top 8 defencemen in the NHL, never mind only having to be one of the top 8 Canadian defencemen. It would be nice to hear that affirmed by the player's own coach/GM/owner.

[Noob616]

Well exactly, in a tournament where you can dress 7D if he's not there as a PP specialist at the very least there's something else at play. TSN saying Letang and Boyle are better options is just indefensible.

[BigTed3]

Therrien in his press conference tonight, saying that "no one can question the fact that we worked hard tonight" (to paraphrase)... it's a troubling statement because it doesn't accurately reflect the game that I saw tonight and that I think many here saw as well. To me, the team did not put in the effort tonight and for the head coach to not see it is worrisome. This team has been under-performing for a month and I'm concerned Therrien won't find the answers to fix this if he doesn't recognize the problem.