League Officiating ---Vent here

[Guest]

Don't like what you see??? Here's where you can blow off some steam (within board rules please). Let them have it.

[kinot-1]

Don't like what you see??? Here's where you can blow off some steam (within board rules please). Let them have it.

Didn't see this thread coming.

[HabsRuleForever]

Didn't see this thread coming.

Ok that's two minutes.

[habs_93]

It's bad, and getting worse every year. It's not yet as bad as the NBA in the late-90s/early-00s, but the trajectory is not good. Particularly disturbing is the tendency for it to get worse in the playoffs, which the stakes are even higher.

Human factors will always impact the officiating process in every sport. Even if a computer system was developed that removed humans from directly making calls, the decisions it makes will only be as good as the people who programmed it or installed the cameras/sensors. And if players have found ways to game the current human officials, why couldn't they game a machine?

That's not an excuse to reflexively accept mediocrity and failure, however. The humans on-ice and in Toronto can and should be better. And perhaps they're actually being prodded in that direction by the people in charge at the NHL. But how would we possibly know that when they're treated as sacrosanct and—at least outwardly—aren't held accountable for anything? It's not healthy to live life through a paranoid and totally mistrusting lens, but it's also not wise to trust people who've proven time and again that they're unreliable. An organization that continues to employ someone like Colin Campbell after years of problems should not be taken seriously unless it demonstrates through tangible action that it's changing. The NHL hasn't, so I'm not going to trust it. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Complicating the NHL's problems in this arena is its continued questionable business practices, which have and continue to impact its non-business decision making. That leads me to wonder if those in charge consider all internal decisions to be business decisions. Money may be the driving force behind sports today, but I doubt I'd be alone in finding that unsavoury. And I doubt the league or its teams will be as valuable in a decade if the popular perception of it shifts from a legitimate sports league to something more resembling "sports entertainment", such as the WWE.

Do I want it to get better? Yes, both for the integrity of the game and the safety of the players. Do I think it will? Considering all available evidence, absolutely not. Which is both depressing and frustrating.

[Guest]

I've cooled down a little bit after 24 hours.

How does a supposedly professional crew make so many mistakes in one game?? I can understand the human error factor, but these guys take it to a new level.

Just off the top of my head from last night,,,,Markov diving,,,,horrible call. The 2 minutes to the Leaf that boarded Prust instead of the 5 it deserved,,,,terrible. The 5 minutes for fighting that Prust got while not tossing a single punch or for that matter dropping his gloves or stick,,,,absolutely brutal. I won't even begin to mention the numerous stick infractions that went uncalled. Just when you think it can't get any worse,,,,they manage to outdo themselves. Nauseating.

[habby4ever]

Posted Today, 09:50 PM

I've cooled down a little bit after 24 hours.

How does a supposedly professional crew make so many mistakes in one game?? I can understand the human error factor, but these guys take it to a new level.

Just off the top of my head from last night,,,,Markov diving,,,,horrible call. The 2 minutes to the Leaf that boarded Prust instead of the 5 it deserved,,,,terrible. The 5 minutes for fighting that Prust got while not tossing a single punch or for that matter dropping his gloves or stick,,,,absolutely brutal. I won't even begin to mention the numerous stick infractions that went uncalled. Just when you think it can't get any worse,,,,they manage to outdo themselves. Nauseating.

IMHO, as a fan, I watch the game for entertainment value, fairness and stress relief. I guess we get the entertainment value to some point, in these types of games. With the Markov penalty, IMO, it should not have happened, but I guess Refs, are now mind readers, I guess this is the crusade on embellishing. My friends, were I live, are nhl hockey fans, and they are habs, leafs, philedelphia and boston fans. They all seen the game through our eyes and not the officiating eyes. They roast me for being a hab fan, but they still seen the officiating, as worse. I would not like to be in refs shoes. Tough Job.

[Manatee-X]

And I doubt the league or its teams will be as valuable in a decade if the popular perception of it shifts from a legitimate sports league to something more resembling "sports entertainment", such as the WWE.

Okay guys, new plan for next game against the Leafs: PK, you pick a fight with Kadri in the corner. While the refs' backs are turned Prust can sneak off the bench and hit Kessel with a steel chair.

[HabsRuleForever]

Okay guys, new plan for next game against the Leafs: PK, you pick a fight with Kadri in the corner. While the refs' backs are turned Prust can sneak off the bench and hit Kessel with a steel chair.

LOL, but also then one of our guys has to jump off the "top rope" of the bench to go in & score & win the belt er hockey game.

[Guest]

Better solution would be to just forfeit the 2 points and rest up the guys and avoid any possible injuries. I mean,,,,we wouldn't want Marky hurting himself diving all over the ice or Prust hurting his hands while supposedly fighting somebody with his gloves on and holding his stick.

Bring on Peel and Lee for the Philly game. Can't wait.

[habby4ever]

Better solution would be to just forfeit the 2 points and rest up the guys and avoid any possible injuries. I mean,,,,we wouldn't want Marky hurting himself diving all over the ice or Prust hurting his hands while supposedly fighting somebody with his gloves on and holding his stick.

Bring on Peel and Lee for the Philly game. Can't wait.

I think they call it twilight zone hockey, or was it the final frontier? Maybe, we can fine it in the book, refereeing for dummies.

I will search the internet? First I will watch habs hockey, a nice win over broad street bullies. Go, Habs, Go.

[Guest]

I guess this thread will be quiet for a couple days. Got the calls this time.

[HabsRuleForever]

Complete turnaround from game one.

[ColRouleBleu]

Yes tonight it was in our favor but that doesn't make the refs look more competent. Those quick whistles on goals were ridiculous.

[habs_93]

Yes tonight it was in our favor but that doesn't make the refs look more competent. Those quick whistles on goals were ridiculous.

Yeah, that Philly no-goal call was ridiculous. That was clearly a goal for them, and they have a right to be furious. I also thought the hybrid icing was bad for both sides last night.

[habby4ever]

Nilan basically said the same think on TSN 690, on intermission.

2 or 3 clearly missed calls on Hybrid Icing.

The Puck rolled down Price's arm and into the net, should have

been a goal. Nilan said it evened off with the habs goal disallowed.

Also said, that the momentum change if the goal had been

allowed, we will never know. Habs Win, I am happy, habby4ever

Yeah, that Philly no-goal call was ridiculous. That was clearly a goal for them, and they have a right to be furious. I also thought the hybrid icing was bad for both sides last night.

[Guest]

Yes,,,,getting the calls only signify that we came out on the good end of things this time. It certainly doesn't mean that the refs were anywhere near competent.It's one of those games where i don't believe they changed the eventual outcome,,, which happens way too often in this league.

I'm game for just about any new method available to clean up this mess. The two ref system is a complete failure IMO. Time to go back to one and add video review in the form of a challenge system. Can't be any worse then what we're seeing now. Put that second ref in the press box to deal with blown or missed calls,, using video as a tool. Don't bother sending it to Toronto either.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

The penalties were fine IMO, but yes the hybrid icing and disallowed goals are a problem.

[powerplay2009]

I'm still not worried about the hybrid icing, there will be an adjustment, but afterward it'll be fine.

[habby4ever]

NHL clarifies spin-o-rama rule and enforcement in light of Raymond shootout goal

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/53703-NHL-clarifies-spinorama-rule-and-enforcement-in-light-of-Raymond-shootout-goal.html

Mason Raymond caused quite a stir with his spin-o-rama shootout move Saturday night.

The Toronto Maple Leafs winger scored on Craig Anderson, and the Ottawa Senators and others weren't sure if it should have been a goal. The NHL put out a story on its website clarifying the situation on Sunday night.

[habby4ever]

Hi Kerry,

In Saturday night's game between the Canadiens and Flyers, there was a shot from PK Subban at the point that went wide and was stuck in the side of the net forcing a whistle. At this point, Montreal was on a power play and up 2-0 in the game. My question is, why did the face-off after this whistle stay in the Flyers' end? If a shot from a Canadiens player goes over the glass or onto the back of the net and is blown dead, the face-off should come outside, shouldn't it?

I am just wondering how this case is different as it did not touch a Flyers player before becoming lost in the side of the net. This was a very pivotal point in the game as the Canadiens scored shortly after the next draw which remained in the Flyers' zone, putting the game pretty much out of reach. Thanks for taking the time to answer my e-mail and I look forward to your response.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=433625

[habby4ever]

-- National Hockey League Senior Executive Vice President Colin Campbell believes that players, coaches and general managers all want the diving/embellishment rule to be called more stringently -- and more often -- in order to eliminate the act from the sport. So they say!

The cheat-to-win attitude has evolved to include an ever expanding list of embellishers. It really detracts from the integrity of the game and has become a negative component that needs to be eradicated. There are two ways to do that; the Refs must continue to enforce embellishment with a firm standard and assess a standalone penalty whenever the opportunity is presented. Second to that, offenders' names need to be published when the Hockey Operation Department flags them under Rule 64.3 (Fines and Suspensions) whether a penalty was called on the ice or not.

For those unaware of Rule 64.3: "Regardless if a minor penalty for diving/embellishment is called, Hockey Operations will review game videos and assess fines to players who dive or embellish a fall or a reaction, or who feign injury. The first such incident during the season will result in a warning letter being sent to the player. The second such incident will result in a one thousand dollar ($1,000) fine. For a third such incident in the season, the player shall be suspended for one game, pending a telephone conversation with the Director of Hockey Operations. For subsequent violations in the same season, the player's suspension shall double (i.e. first suspension - one game, second suspension - two games, third suspension - four games, etc.)"

This rule certainly has some 'teeth' but we never know if or when it is being enforced.

The bottom line is that the Referees have their instructions and their radar is honed in on embellishment. I'm good with that and hope that before too long players will fight to stay on their feet for fear of nullifying a power play opportunity.

New rule suggestion: Make the embellishment a double minor penalty. Maybe then all players' uniforms would be wetter on the inside from perspiration. Rather, then on the outside from diving.

After all, it's supposed to be a man's game in the NHL.

Not to rev anyone up, but IMHO, It comes down to which Teams officials are doing the game. Marchand and Kadri seldom get called for embellishment and yet they are 2 of the leagues best at the act. That's where the frustration sets in. Both the Bruins and Leafs have historically had 'home town' officiating on their side. Boston’s coach, likes to cry wolf. He rages on about embellishment, yet Marchant is one of the culprits, under his own nose? Claude Julien, raised the embellishment flag towards the Habs, now players like Eller, are getting a good look at by refs. I guess MT, should complain, to follow this philosophy? Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language. IM0, is that Eller has impeccable values, and is taking the rap for very questionable calls, is the reality.

[Guest]

It's all fine and dandy if ALL the refs we're on the same page. Maybe the league should be concentrating more on their questionable refs calling bad games.on a regular basis.

[FirstStar]

With having CenterIce free for this month, I've been watching other games and have picked up on a few things.

In the habs game against the Flyers, we were getting the better officiating, very different from the leafs/habs game.

But against the cats, Flyers first game with new head coach, they definitely had the benefit of the calls.

Obviously 2 games is a small sample size and doesn't prove anything. It was interesting to note that the leafs had the better calls against us, but the habs next game against the flyers, we obviously had the better calls. Then after having the refs down their throats against the habs, flyers had it the other way when playing the cats.

I know from a friend who is an official at the lower levels and has even participated in NHL games (as a linesman), that refs do get their direction from the league. They always have the choice not to follow the leagues direction and officiate an honest game, but then they aren't rewarded by getting playoff games. Playoff games pay more than reg season games and the further you go into the playoffs, the bigger the payout.

So, if you're ever wondering why certain refs who seem to be boneheads are reffing in the playoffs, it's because they followed the leagues instructions and are being rewarded.

There's a lot of money in pro sports, a lot on the line. A good season will fill your pockets and a bad season could bankrupt you. This doesn't just happen in the NHL either, any league is going to try to give certain teams an advantage if they bring the league money. Or, they can also give teams in weak markets, still building their fan base, an advantage as well.

We all want to believe that our pro leagues are honorable and will let things happen as they will. Simple fact is, there is something much bigger and more important to any pro league, and that is making a profit.

So, in the leagues eyes (I'm using this as an example but have no concree proof) they count on a team like the flyers to do well. Flyers have history and a big fan base, having them in the basement isn't good for the league. So a part of me wondered, while watching the cats/flyers game, if the league gave the flyers (who were playing their first game with new head coach) the benefit of the calls to try and spark them.

i don't think the league flat out throws games or follows certain teams and gives them the benefit of the calls every game, but i do think certain match ups, one team is given the advantage for reason X, Y, Z, over the other. As I touched on before, i found it very interesting that the flyers got the benefit of the calls after a horrible game against the habs (in which we really had the refs in our back pocket) and their first game with new head coach in hopes the team would find a spark.

Watching all these other games (especially enjoy watching some of the western teams I don't get to see often), I see trends we often complain about as hab fans, happening to other teams.

There are certain things we need to take into consideration when watching games:

-A team like Boston is a big draw due to their "Big bad Bruins" reputation, if the league called them on every infraction, they wouldn't be able to play that way and I'm sure they'd lose some of their fan base, same for the Flyers.

-having historical teams in the basement (like original 6 teams or those part of the first expansion) is not good for league renevue. It's these teams that keep the league afloat and support teams in weaker markets.

-Owning the yotes, having them up for sale and trying to pass them off as a team with a solid fan base, is not going to happen if they're sitting in the basement. Slant the ice in their direction when they're playing at home, will help the local fan base. hard to find a buyer when the team is sitting in last place and the fans aren't attending the games (no one wants to go see their team lose).

First and foremost, the NHL is a business and is run like any other business. Giving certain teams an advantage is very different from completely throwing a game. So i do believe certain teams, in certain situations are given a small advantage to try and generate a bigger fan following, which in turn generates more money fot the team and the league. lastly, NHL officials are human, they are often x-hockey players who weren't good enough or who were injured young and never got to the next level. You always have the odd ones who wanted to be officials from day one (but they are rare). These officials wouldn't have gotten into offciating if they weren't already hockey fans. Growing up watching and even playing hockey at the lower levels, they must have teams they favour and teams they detest. Unfortunately i do think at times their personal bias does affect the games. Refs and linesman have to be very strong skaters to keep up with the action. Which is why mot refs have played at one point or another and it also helps to understand the game when you've played it yourself.

[habby4ever]

With having CenterIce free for this month, I've been watching other games and have picked up on a few things.

In the habs game against the Flyers, we were getting the better officiating, very different from the leafs/habs game.

But against the cats, Flyers first game with new head coach, they definitely had the benefit of the calls.

Obviously 2 games is a small sample size and doesn't prove anything. It was interesting to note that the leafs had the better calls against us, but the habs next game against the flyers, we obviously had the better calls. Then after having the refs down their throats against the habs, flyers had it the other way when playing the cats.

I know from a friend who is an official at the lower levels and has even participated in NHL games (as a linesman), that refs do get their direction from the league. They always have the choice not to follow the leagues direction and officiate an honest game, but then they aren't rewarded by getting playoff games. Playoff games pay more than reg season games and the further you go into the playoffs, the bigger the payout.

So, if you're ever wondering why certain refs who seem to be boneheads are reffing in the playoffs, it's because they followed the leagues instructions and are being rewarded.

There's a lot of money in pro sports, a lot on the line. A good season will fill your pockets and a bad season could bankrupt you. This doesn't just happen in the NHL either, any league is going to try to give certain teams an advantage if they bring the league money. Or, they can also give teams in weak markets, still building their fan base, an advantage as well.

We all want to believe that our pro leagues are honorable and will let things happen as they will. Simple fact is, there is something much bigger and more important to any pro league, and that is making a profit.

So, in the leagues eyes (I'm using this as an example but have no concree proof) they count on a team like the flyers to do well. Flyers have history and a big fan base, having them in the basement isn't good for the league. So a part of me wondered, while watching the cats/flyers game, if the league gave the flyers (who were playing their first game with new head coach) the benefit of the calls to try and spark them.

i don't think the league flat out throws games or follows certain teams and gives them the benefit of the calls every game, but i do think certain match ups, one team is given the advantage for reason X, Y, Z, over the other. As I touched on before, i found it very interesting that the flyers got the benefit of the calls after a horrible game against the habs (in which we really had the refs in our back pocket) and their first game with new head coach in hopes the team would find a spark.

Watching all these other games (especially enjoy watching some of the western teams I don't get to see often), I see trends we often complain about as hab fans, happening to other teams.

There are certain things we need to take into consideration when watching games:

-A team like Boston is a big draw due to their "Big bad Bruins" reputation, if the league called them on every infraction, they wouldn't be able to play that way and I'm sure they'd lose some of their fan base, same for the Flyers.

-having historical teams in the basement (like original 6 teams or those part of the first expansion) is not good for league renevue. It's these teams that keep the league afloat and support teams in weaker markets.

-Owning the yotes, having them up for sale and trying to pass them off as a team with a solid fan base, is not going to happen if they're sitting in the basement. Slant the ice in their direction when they're playing at home, will help the local fan base. hard to find a buyer when the team is sitting in last place and the fans aren't attending the games (no one wants to go see their team lose).

First and foremost, the NHL is a business and is run like any other business. Giving certain teams an advantage is very different from completely throwing a game. So i do believe certain teams, in certain situations are given a small advantage to try and generate a bigger fan following, which in turn generates more money fot the team and the league. lastly, NHL officials are human, they are often x-hockey players who weren't good enough or who were injured young and never got to the next level. You always have the odd ones who wanted to be officials from day one (but they are rare). These officials wouldn't have gotten into offciating if they weren't already hockey fans. Growing up watching and even playing hockey at the lower levels, they must have teams they favour and teams they detest. Unfortunately i do think at times their personal bias does affect the games. Refs and linesman have to be very strong skaters to keep up with the action. Which is why mot refs have played at one point or another and it also helps to understand the game when you've played it yourself.

A very fine balancing act and a skirmish for control somewhere between fan base and revenues. Refs between a rock and a hard place. Fans looking for more quality. and no immediate solutions. Sounds familiar

[Guest]

More fuel for the fire tonight. Ugly 2nd period by the zebras