Fighting in the NHL

[Guest]

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=433262

[powerplay2009]

For the longest time I thought it had its place in the game, but I'm really starting to lean the other way.

[Flying_Lion]

I needed this thread.

I tolerated fights but never liked them. I don't think they're necessary anymore. With video replay, there's no reason there can't be a "third referee" that can assign some sort of penalty after the fact. Or something. Maybe players could receive some sort of "Shanna-Ban" via text message next time they hit the dressing room.

Teams as a whole should be penalized, too. What's done by one is done by all. If something gets missed late in a game, maybe they start their next game shorthanded.

The fact of the matter, in my opinion, is that the NHL should stop endorsing the violence that is fighting. It will take time but there should be steps taken to work towards the elimination of fighting. A game misconduct is a good start.

While they're at it, let's get improper stickwork out of the game. That crosschecking in front of the net? That's not what your hockey stick is for. Hooking? Nope.

I love hockey, I really do. I just really hate the fights.

More than that, I hate that fighting is accepted, encouraged, and planned for.

[habby4ever]

Posted Today, 05:19 PM

I needed this thread.

I tolerated fights but never liked them. I don't think they're necessary anymore. With video replay, there's no reason there can't be a "third referee" that can assign some sort of penalty after the fact. Or something. Maybe players could receive some sort of "Shanna-Ban" via text message next time they hit the dressing room.

Teams as a whole should be penalized, too. What's done by one is done by all. If something gets missed late in a game, maybe they start their next game shorthanded.

The fact of the matter, in my opinion, is that the NHL should stop endorsing the violence that is fighting. It will take time but there should be steps taken to work towards the elimination of fighting. A game misconduct is a good start.

While they're at it, let's get improper stickwork out of the game. That crosschecking in front of the net? That's not what your hockey stick is for. Hooking? Nope.

I love hockey, I really do. I just really hate the fights.

More than that, I hate that fighting is accepted, encouraged, and planned for.

I agree completely, also, you do not need to crosscheck a player in front of the net to move a player, there are other means to move him. I would prefer to win with skill, instead of getting a player off the ice by any means possible. I can

watch the UFC if I wanted to see a fight, and to see skill with sportsmanship. Like George St. Pierre, a habs fan.

[habby4ever]

The discussion on head injuries across sports should make banning the one element of hockey where the goal is to hit people in the head a relatively easy sell. As it is, fighting has increasingly pushed to the margins for years, even though NHL commissioner Gary Bettman has never given a hint of being interested in leading the charge. But now it needs to go not only because of what happens when big men punch each other in the face, but also what can happen entirely by accident. Common sense will prevail and one day fighting will be gone (IMHO).

[powerplay2009]

The biggest hurdle, IMO, would be that most players, regardless of how they feel with fighting in or out of the game, would want to keep it because their friends and teammates would be out of a job otherwise. Totally understandable, IMO. It's just unfortunate you can't "grandfather" it in like helmets and visors (eventually).

[FirstStar]

The biggest problem with taking fighting out of the game (forget that it does fill the seats and is a draw), is that the responsibility to keep the game clean then falls on the officials.

BG took that gamble after the lockout and it didn't have great results.

If the refs did their jobs right in the first place, we wouldn't have a need for fighting. Since the officiating in the NHL is so poor, it's up to teams and the players themselves to police the ice.

Having played hockey myself, especially in the 80's, I understand the motivation behind the policing. The stick work was so bad when they introduced the code almost 100 years ago(opposing teams would literally line up on the blueline and hack at anyone crazy enough to try and enter the zone with the puck), that skilled players were actually staying in the lower leagues to avoid the violence in the NHL-they were literally scared.

But the fighting we have today doesn't even compare to the fighting before the 90's. The code has been skewed since teams started drafting outside of North America. Now before someone jumps on me saying that I'm prejudice against European players, let me explain... North American hockey and European hockey was very different than it is today. The Russians played with skill, while the NA's played with intimidation, grit and skill. You're trying to introduce a code, a list of unwritten rules to players who have limited English skills and have never heard of this so called code. So of course, you have these Europeans coming into the league with a crash course and a distorted version of the code, which they're trying to enforce, without really knowing what it is. The code was put in place to encourage small skilled players to sign with NHL teams, to thrive at the NHL level and to play their skilled game without fear of goonery.

With the stakes so high and the pressure to win at all costs, teams did what they could to have an edge. If they couldn't land talent, they landed players with no talent, but with size and a mean streak in hopes they could intimidate skilled players off their games.

It pretty much goes like this... You have your skilled players who you count on to score goals. but at the same time, the other team has skilled forwards capable of scoring as well. So then you get a pest, a player who's main role is simply to get the skilled players off their game at any cost. Any cost can be anything from insulting opposing players wives and mothers, to boarding, slashing anything that'll slow down the opposing teams(even if that means knocking them out of the game). Pests were often little guys like marchand who would irritate star players and not only get them off their games, hopefully annoy them enough to take a run or slash at the pest, which would result in 2 things, 1, a penalty and 2, it takes the star player off the ice for 2 mins. But, pests do get out of control sometimes, which is when the enforcer is asked to settle things down. Sometimes they went right after the pest (rare situations when the pest really crossed the line), other times they would take on the other teams enforcer. Now, for those who think that an enforcer taking on another enforcer has no relevance, check out this scenario.... The star players and the pests look to their enforcer to protect them. If their enforcer just got a serious beating out there on the ice, their security blanket just got ripped off them. The pest now knows that his enforcer just got his butt handed to him and doesn't feel as safe out there, neither do the stars. This causes tension on the team, the enforcer had to fight the other enforcer because his pest crossed the line. No one likes to take a beating, especially when that beating had nothing to do with you, but someone else who's actions you may not condone, but do it because it's your job.

Intimidation is part of just about every contact team sport. Football... Intimidate the QB so he's more worried about getting sacked, then making a solid pass. Same goes for the wide-receivers, if you know the guy who's covering you is known for making bone crushing tackles, you may be a little reluctant to expose yourself trying to make that catch.

I love to see a good hockey fight, I've been following enforcers since I started watching hockey. But I'm not a fan of the staged fights for entertainments sake (they accomplish nothing). I'm a fan of the justified fights, ok, let's say we're in the playoffs and someone like Neil skates into Price at full speed with intent to injure or get him off his game. Yeah, I expect one of our players to go up to him, give him a little roughing up so he thinks twice about running him again. If you don't, then it's open season on your tender and your other star players.

bettman's the biggest hypocrite, talks about players safety, but his main concern is not the players, it's filling the seats and filling his own pocket. If that means fighting is what's drawing people to the games, he will not take it out. Why do you think it's taken so long to do something about the concussions and hits to the head?

It's simple, fans like the big hits, they like to see their player complete destroying the opposing teams player. We're no different, there isn't one person here who doesn't enjoy watching PK flatten opposing players, especially when it's marchand, we love seeing him painfully trying to get back to the bench and hunched over on the bench. If they take out the big hits to protect the players, then the league just lost part of it's drawing power.

Why do you think it took 4 years for them to finally start cracking down on Ovy and his illegal hits (his skates always left the ice, but was never penalized until recently)?

The officials let the hits go on bettman's advice. Ovy was a star at the time, leading the league in scoring. People were coming out to see Ovy score a few goals and land several his big signature hits. It was only when his game began to slide and GM's from opposing teams started to complain, that they started cracking down on Ovy and suspending him.

Chara's another one, I don't know any other player who's passed in front of the disciplinary committee as many times as him without discipline. It's simple, fans love to see chara destroying other players with hits, cheapshots and they relish the violent aspect of his game-especially in boston.

I don't like the version of "the code" we have today. it's been so distorted with the rise in European players who have never properly learned the code and have a distorted view of what it entails. I'm not blaming European players in the least, how can you expect them to learn something on the fly, that NA players have been learning about since their peewee days-it's impossible.

They should've re-evaluated the code in the 90's when they realized more players were coming into the league who had never heard of "the code". But to stay with NHL tradition, they simply swept it under the rug and continued to cash in the money.

If the league and their officials did their jobs right in the first place, we wouldn't have had a need for 'the code' in the first place. In those days I understood, I believe there was only 1 ref and one linesmen or 2 refs no linesman to police all 6 players (from each side) on the ice at the same time(and it was a goon league). No way they could keep track of all the players, so they left it up to the players to police themselves. It wasn't perfect, but it worked when everyone was on the same page. Now you have so many different players coming in from different countries and different upbringings that they can't enforce a code that only 1/2 the league understands.

You ask most players playing today and they still believe fighting has a place in hockey. I have no issues with the fighting itself, but I think they have to revaluate the situation and draw some lines. Finished with these unwritten rules, we need some written rules so misunderstandings and the staged fighting doesn't continue.

[habby4ever]

Another perspective,what I see when a player is laying on the ice.

Death in hockey is Horrible:

We have read about some deaths in hockey. A Death is one too many. I remember someone I loss, due to a hockey accident, and I think of him, to this day.

There is probably no single rule change that can guarantee that won’t happen. But if someone dies in a fight even accidentally as a result of a fight, then those who advocate for the place of fighting in the game will have a more difficult time explaining how fighting makes the game safer.

Nearly three years ago Orr fell to the ice in a fight against Parros and suffering a concussion that nearly ended his career. It took him two seasons to return to the NHL full-time. Full cycle, now Parros was on the ice, leaving queries as to his health.

In addition to the traditional fighting injuries, broken faces, hands, noses and eye sockets, there are torn shoulder and knee ligaments, and high ankle sprains from all the awkward falls.

The NHL knows that fighting is risky, and is constantly walking that line between what they perceive as the point of differentiation they get by being the only major-league sport in which fighting is more or less tolerated and the possibility that something really bad can happen.

It’s why this season they implemented the rule requiring combatants to keep their helmets on. Taking them off during a fight is a two-minute minor for unsportsman like conduct.

Parros’s name was added to the Canadiens’ lineup in part in response to the presence of rugged types like Orr in the Leafs’ lineup. The Leafs added fighters under head coach Randy Carlyle because he thought the club he inherited from Ron Wilson was too easily intimidated by the likes of the Boston Bruins, who won the 2011 Stanley Cup and were the toughest in the league.

But less fights is still too many. The discussion on head injuries across sports should make banning the one element of hockey where the goal is to hit people in the head a relatively easy sell. I hope this is all settled, before anything horrible occurs. IMHO.

[Noob616]

It's time for it to go. "It's part of the game" is such a lame excuse. 6 players and no forward passes used to be part of the game.

Enough with the cream puff suspensions, follow the NFL's lead and crack down on dirty hits. We pay a lot of lip service to concussions and player safety but the reality is we don't do anything concrete about it.

[habby4ever]

It's time for it to go. "It's part of the game" is such a lame excuse. 6 players and no forward passes used to be part of the game.

Enough with the cream puff suspensions, follow the NFL's lead and crack down on dirty hits. We pay a lot of lip service to concussions and player safety but the reality is we don't do anything concrete about it.

as your avator/picture says: Deal with it

[Noob616]

as your avator/picture says: Deal with it

Well yeah, I don't dislike it enough to stop watching hockey but it really makes the league look like a busch league compared to most popular sports. It's just a cheesy sideshow and teams employing guys to be goons keeps skill players out of the league. We need guys like Colton Orr to protect our star players from guys like Colton Orr.

I guess I just find it silly that in every other contact sport the players can get along fine without fighting, including the NFL where 300 pound linemen collide with all their strength on every play, but NHL players aren't emotionally stable enough to handle some contact without having two designated goons punch each other and have a 5 minute time out. It wouldn't be hard either, start calling the rules like they are in the book and game misconducts and suspensions for fighting. See how quickly people keep calling it part of the game when they're losing players for 5, 10, 20 games for grown men not being able to control their emotions.

[Guest habs1952]

I don't have any reservations about two players dropping the gloves and going at it in the heat of battle but the staged fights need to go. I also dislike seeing the retaliation against a player for a good clean hit. It seems kind of moronic for players to have the attitude "we'll hit you but you can't hit us". Players who retaliate for a clean hit should be assessed a game misconduct.

[habby4ever]

Steve Yzerman wants fighting gone but they get flack from guys like George Laroque and Don Cherry. This article, was comments from Laroque.

Well-known NHL tough guy and former Hamilton Bulldog Georges Laraque has some choice words for Steve Yzerman and any other retired NHLers who say fighting should be taken out of hockey.

“Steve Yzerman played in Detroit, where Bob Probert and Joey Kocur were there. They were the toughest guys in the NHL,” Laraque told CBC Hamilton. “Because of them, Steve Yzerman had all the room he needed to be a successful player. [They] put him on the road to the hall of fame.

“And he’s spitting on that job. He’s spitting on them saying ‘thank you very much. Now I’m a hall of famer, lets take fighting out of the game.”

Laraque is responding to statements Yzerman made to TSN earlier this week, in the wake of the fight during the Montreal Canadiens home opener that left enforcer George Parros with a concussion after crashing face-first into the ice.

Georges Laraque to Yzerman: 'You're spitting on enforcers'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/georges-laraque-to-yzerman-you-re-spitting-on-enforcers-1.1912558

[habby4ever]

Steve Yzerman wants fighting gone but they get flack from guys like George Laroque and Don Cherry. This article, was comments from Laroque.

Well-known NHL tough guy and former Hamilton Bulldog Georges Laraque has some choice words for Steve Yzerman and any other retired NHLers who say fighting should be taken out of hockey.

“Steve Yzerman played in Detroit, where Bob Probert and Joey Kocur were there. They were the toughest guys in the NHL,” Laraque told CBC Hamilton. “Because of them, Steve Yzerman had all the room he needed to be a successful player. [They] put him on the road to the hall of fame.

“And he’s spitting on that job. He’s spitting on them saying ‘thank you very much. Now I’m a hall of famer, lets take fighting out of the game.”

Laraque is responding to statements Yzerman made to TSN earlier this week, in the wake of the fight during the Montreal Canadiens home opener that left enforcer George Parros with a concussion after crashing face-first into the ice.

Georges Laraque to Yzerman: 'You're spitting on enforcers'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/georges-laraque-to-yzerman-you-re-spitting-on-enforcers-1.1912558

Laraque sees his role, but does not seem to see what happened in the past, with deaths, orr, parros etc...and why Yzerman is doing what he is doing. Yzerman also has a right to an opinion.

[Guest]

I don't have any reservations about two players dropping the gloves and going at it in the heat of battle but the staged fights need to go. I also dislike seeing the retaliation against a player for a good clean hit. It seems kind of moronic for players to have the attitude "we'll hit you but you can't hit us". Players who retaliate for a clean hit should be assessed a game misconduct.

I pretty much agree with the whole post here. If they want to stage a fight,,, then put a WWE ring out at center ice during the intermission and go for it. Or Better yet,,,,attach one to the Zamboni and let them drag it across the ice as they clean it.

[FirstStar]

I don't have any reservations about two players dropping the gloves and going at it in the heat of battle but the staged fights need to go. I also dislike seeing the retaliation against a player for a good clean hit. It seems kind of moronic for players to have the attitude "we'll hit you but you can't hit us". Players who retaliate for a clean hit should be assessed a game misconduct.

Me neither, I'll admit i like seeing a good 'ol hockey fight. But really don't understand those staged fights in the opening FO's, completely ridiculous to me. Any contact sport especially hockey, without any "out of bounds" area, is going to have tempers and boys will be boys. Even Sid the kid finally dropped the gloves once, so did gretz and semin had his version of a fight... More like a slapfest.

Football, soccer and basketball are contact sports, but they also have boundaries, which you don't have in hockey, so if someone wants to nail you, they're going to nail you eventually.

i have no issues with guys wanting to protect their star players, even for legal hits, but within reason. Gretz was probably one of the most protected stars in NHL history, in fact when he was traded to the kings, his bodyguard followed. Gretz never really missed any significant amount of time due to injury and some of that has to do with the protection he received, some is just pure luck.

If GallyB is coming down the right wings and gets crunched along the boards, so be it, it's a part of hockey. Same scenario, if GallyB's coming down the ice, legal or not, if he's completely plastered (and he's had concussion issues), then yes, i expect someone to go up and say, "settle down...", maybe not go as far as to drop the gloves, but enough to show the opposing team he's a protected player. If not, that next hit may do more than cost him a shift while he's trying to get his wind back.

Opposing teams will take as many liberties as you allow them to take with your star players. In a 20 year career, no one really took a run at gretz, you had the Billy Smith slash to gretz knee, but that was pretty much the extent of it(few minor incidents but nothing majoy). As previously mentioned, gretz was very well protected. Before McSorely, gretz' bodyguard was big dave Semenko, this was a tough as nails fighter. The message was clear, touch gretz and he'll touch you.

I have no issues with guys standing up for star players, even when a legal hit is delivered, depending on the impact of the hit. I don't believe that the moment an opposing player nudges your star you have to drop the gloves, but if it's devestating or borderline, then yes, go do your job.

Intimidation is a big part of hockey. That's why it's important to set the tone early, throw a lot of hits, let the oppsoing team know you've come with the intent to hit everything that moves. This has a domino affect, 1) gets players off their games and thinking of being crunched rather than focusing on scoring, 2) can get opposing team off their system and simply playing with the idea of avoiding being hit 3) force them into coughing up the puck or force them to make split second decisions which can lead to a rush that goes nowhere or a turnover. You never want to give opposing teams time to set up,

In football, a QB can run out of bounds to avoid a tackle, same for a wide receiver or even running back. Hockey doesn't have that luxury, so yeah, tempers are going to flare and bigger guys are going to get ticked seeing their skilled forwards manhandled. Don't necessarily have to drop the gloves, give him a big bruising hit next time you're both on the ice at the same time and as you're doing it, whisper sweet somethings in his ear.

leafs and bruins become useless if we can get under their skin. But if you get under their skin, expect some retaliation, this is where parros, white and Moen step in, basically taking the lumps so that our skilled forwards won't have to. Chara's a guy who easily loses his cool and becomes useless, but the problem when chara loses his cool, he becomes dangerous-Like patches found out.

Unfortunately with chara he's the exception, biggest guy in the league so there's no one who can really go up against him. But guys like phuff, frazer, orr, lucic, etc... they may give you a beating/slashing/big hit if you aggitate them, but they won't intentionally try and kill you.

That's one time where i miss laps, he was actually very good at getting under opposing teams skin, especially when he flashed his "little brat" smile.

[powerplay2009]

Another thing about fighting is that I find in many cases it can actually diminish rivalries. I watch a lot of college hockey, given that I go to a school with a prevalent NCAA hockey team, and I also love watching international hockey when I get the chance. In both cases, fighting is not allowed, and I really just don't miss it. At Michigan, our biggest rivals are Notre Dame (though we don't play them any more) and Michigan State. Know how to assert dominance in the rivalry? Win. Period. Just like Canada-Russia or Sweden-Finland. You win. It doesn't matter that one can beat the other "in the alley". That leads to some of the most intense hockey I have ever seen.

Take, for example, the old Wings-Avs rivalry, because I know many a Wings fan. Whenever that rivalry is brought up, the Wings fans go "The Avalanche may have won a lot, but Vernon sure did beat the crap out of Roy in the goalie fights". Imagine how much more intense the actual gameplay would be without the sideshow and consolation of winning a fight. Think about how much more disappointed the Bruins fans would be if, in fact, they could not take solace in the case of defeat knowing Chara could beat up any of our players, because it doesn't matter.

[habby4ever]

A different Approach:

Fighting is actually not a part of hockey, it is identified as an element which should be penalized if it happens. Is high sticking or spearing part of hockey? I think the debate here is not whether we should move to remove violence from every last corner, but whether hockey would be better off without fighting. Parros vs Orr round 2 sure was a useless fight. I'm pretty sure Orr and Parros had enough with their first fight. So why did it happen. When the play stopped, Subban had Orr in a headlock. It wasn't a headlock made to calm the guy, it was a headlock made to anger him. PK had that grin on his face that pops up whenever he does something to and opponent.. In his mind, maybe this was a game changing momentum move. Parros separated PK and Orr and then both heavyweights agreed to fight for a second time. PK was smiling as George and Colton began fighting. His smile, however, slowly faded after George fell and didn't get up. This bothered P.K., and surely bothered me. Had fighting been eliminated at the beginning of this season, perhaps there would have been some cheap shots. but had it been banned 10 years ago, perhaps this game would have been much different. To this day, the only real deterrent for picking on a skill guy was having to take a beating from the toughs. But imagine that the refs actually called the rule book and the league handed out much stiffer punishment for cheap shots or other rue violations. There wouldn't really be a need for fighting, or evening the score.

IMHO.

[FirstStar]

Great article concerning fight in the NHL from HOF blueliner Orr.

He pretty much said what I've been saying all along. There is a place for fighting, but the staged fights have to go and stupid retaliations for legal hits.

Fighting wasn't meant to entertain like it is today, it was to keep most players honest. Without consequences, like Orr said, a lot of guys will become brave and pull all sorts of dirty plays without having to answer for it. Briere all of a sudden got brave playing in Philly when they had pronger, carcillo, Hartnell, etc... Someone eventually took at run at briere and he has had concussion issue since. Without fear of retaliation briere became a dirty player, he even crossed checked another center right in the face after a FO. He never pulled this type of stuff in Buffalo.

Players with multi-million dollar contracts could care less about losing a few thousand dollars and having a few days off. Having to answer for their cheapshots would eliminate dirty hits from guys like Briere. You'll always have your Avery's, Barnabe's, Kasparatis' who'll take a beating for a cheapshot, but those players are rare compared to those who take cheapshots and hid behind the NHL's rules like briere did duing his time in philly.

We have 3 cases just this week of 3rd/4th liners taking out stars. Of those 3, Scott would probably be the only one who would've welcomed a beating, I don't think laps (who usually turtled from fights) and McLeod would've taken these hits had they been required to drop the gloves immediately afterwards.

Full article bellow:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=435047

Also to add, that under the ol "Code" Scott wouldn't have been allowed to take on Kessel or Eriksson, but without proper rules in place concerning fighting, it's open season on stars.

Again, yes stars always had and will continue to have targets on their backs, it'll never eliminate cheapshots, but would reduce them by making players accountable for their actions.

It's interesting to note that most who have played the game or are still playing the game are in favour of fighting. Why not listen to those who have actually played or are still playing the game. The Players union doesn't want fighting out of the NHL.

Before someone brings up one name of an x-player who wants to take out fight, I didn't say all, I said most want to keep fighting in the league. If most wanted it out, the NHLPA would've taken it out by now.

[Guest habs1952]

I don't have any reservations about two players dropping the gloves and going at it in the heat of battle but the staged fights need to go. I also dislike seeing the retaliation against a player for a good clean hit. It seems kind of moronic for players to have the attitude "we'll hit you but you can't hit us". Players who retaliate for a clean hit should be assessed a game misconduct.

Bobby Orr and I think alike.

[FirstStar]

Bobby Orr and I think alike.

The staged fights serve only one purpose and it has nothing to do with the game of hockey... The staged fights are for the benefit of the fans and only the fans.

And it was during a staged fight that Parros injured himself. There was no need for him to fight at that moment, it basically came down to the fans wanting to see Colton and George go at it, again. The last fight between those 2 ended in a concussion as well, that time Colton was the injured party, it almost ended his career.

I have nothing against momentum shift fights, it work last season when Prust took on Lucic, but that can also work against you, so you have to pick your battles. There was no clear cut winner between Prust and Lucic, but Prusts teammates seeing him take on lucic (of all players) just before the end of the period got the message. To them it's like, "Wow, if Prust is willing to take on lucic to spark the team, we better work our butts off and make sure he didn't take his lumps for nothing". Our habs ended coming back and won the game. Maybe they would've won had prust not gotten into a fight, but that was definitely motivation for the rest of the team.

It's hard to explain to people who have never played the game of hockey at a high level, how fighting is an important part of the game. As I said before, it's interesting that most x and present NHLers want to keep fighting in the game. Maybe we should start listening to the people who are actually playing the game and taking the lumps.

It's one of these circumstances where you had to have gone through it to understand the situation.

From an outsiders point of view it seems barbaric and pointless, but to the players who play the game, it's an important part of the game.

[roy_133]

The biggest hurdle, IMO, would be that most players, regardless of how they feel with fighting in or out of the game, would want to keep it because their friends and teammates would be out of a job otherwise. Totally understandable, IMO. It's just unfortunate you can't "grandfather" it in like helmets and visors (eventually).

Sure, but a more skilled hockey player would get a deserved job replacing the fighter. I know the players won't care about that logic, they aren't going to throw a teammate under the bus but we have to think logically here, if a player becomes useless to a team if fighting is taken out of the game, it's basically a shame he has a job in the NHL over a skilled AHL player IMO.

On the topic of fighting, I definitely accepted it as part of the game growing up but the more and more we're learning about concussions, brain trauma in general and quality of life after the fact, it's honestly pretty hard for me to enjoy. I'd be surprised if hockey actually lost fans to devaluing or totally eliminating fighting. In general, most hockey fights are boring wrestling matches that slowdown the game if anything (yes there is the odd fight people would deem excited). People with a tooth for violence and fighting definitely have a lot of outlets to get it thesedays, I can't change the channel without seeing some form of MMA. I think it may upset some initially but I just can't imagine someone paying to sit in an NHL arena or watching a hockey game on TV in the HOPE a fight breaks out.

Start with the staged fights but eventually IMO we will see a day where fighting is gone from hockey. The head trauma stuff is becoming too hot of an issue (thankfully).

[powerplay2009]

Sure, but a more skilled hockey player would get a deserved job replacing the fighter. I know the players won't care about that logic, they aren't going to throw a teammate under the bus but we have to think logically here, if a player becomes useless to a team if fighting is taken out of the game, it's basically a shame he has a job in the NHL over a skilled AHL player IMO.

On the topic of fighting, I definitely accepted it as part of the game growing up but the more and more we're learning about concussions, brain trauma in general and quality of life after the fact, it's honestly pretty hard for me to enjoy. I'd be surprised if hockey actually lost fans to devaluing or totally eliminating fighting. In general, most hockey fights are boring wrestling matches that slowdown the game if anything (yes there is the odd fight people would deem excited). People with a tooth for violence and fighting definitely have a lot of outlets to get it thesedays, I can't change the channel without seeing some form of MMA. I think it may upset some initially but I just can't imagine someone paying to sit in an NHL arena or watching a hockey game on TV in the HOPE a fight breaks out.

Start with the staged fights but eventually IMO we will see a day where fighting is gone from hockey. The head trauma stuff is becoming too hot of an issue (thankfully).

The good news is that your general position is really gaining considerable ground all around the league from all parties. It's only a matter of time, but I think it will take some horrific incident or some awful story of a former fighter who can't remember his name or a gigantanormous lawsuit for anybody in the NHL to get the guts to really tackle the issue.

Although, if the owners and GMs start demanding it, Bettman is the perfect guy to get this done IMO. Like him or hate him, I think you have to respect him because he is really, really good at his job.

[Guest habs1952]

Sure, but a more skilled hockey player would get a deserved job replacing the fighter. I know the players won't care about that logic, they aren't going to throw a teammate under the bus but we have to think logically here, if a player becomes useless to a team if fighting is taken out of the game, it's basically a shame he has a job in the NHL over a skilled AHL player IMO.

On the topic of fighting, I definitely accepted it as part of the game growing up but the more and more we're learning about concussions, brain trauma in general and quality of life after the fact, it's honestly pretty hard for me to enjoy. I'd be surprised if hockey actually lost fans to devaluing or totally eliminating fighting. In general, most hockey fights are boring wrestling matches that slowdown the game if anything (yes there is the odd fight people would deem excited). People with a tooth for violence and fighting definitely have a lot of outlets to get it thesedays, I can't change the channel without seeing some form of MMA. I think it may upset some initially but I just can't imagine someone paying to sit in an NHL arena or watching a hockey game on TV in the HOPE a fight breaks out.

Start with the staged fights but eventually IMO we will see a day where fighting is gone from hockey. The head trauma stuff is becoming too hot of an issue (thankfully).

Yeah, fighting does cause brain trauma, but the players have now moved on to headshots where everyone can participate whether they are a goon or not.

[powerplay2009]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=437509

So this new lawsuit filed by 10 former players mentions the NHL knowing about fighting and its dangers, but continuing to encourage it.

It argues that the league continues to contribute to injuries today, by refusing to ban fighting and body-checking, and by employing "enforcers" whose main job is to fight or violently body-check opponents. And the lawsuit accuses the league of promoting a "culture of violence," in which players are praised for their fighting and "head-hunting" skills.

If this lawsuit goes anywhere, does this mean fighting could face an abrupt end in the sport?