Inquisitive Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well we watch a team that employs Murray and Bouillon so we shouldn't have to waste our time cringing at what other teams do. I think Murray has been good defensively as of late... He's made the PK look pretty good. Give credit where it's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_133 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think Murray has been good defensively as of late... He's made the PK look pretty good. Give credit where it's due. He's been fine on the PK, I don't know that he makes it look good by himself but 5 on 5... http://www.extraskater.com/player/434/douglas-murray Yeesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitive Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 He's been fine on the PK, I don't know that he makes it look good by himself but 5 on 5... http://www.extraskater.com/player/434/douglas-murray Yeesh I'm with you on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_133 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'm with you on that one. I don't want to bash the guy or make this a thing and I'm glad he's done well on the PK and he seems like a great guy but right now our D is a mess so trading a guy who is actually a right handed shot who can make a breakout pass feels silly right now. Almost as silly as not playing him felt. I just don't get a lot of the direction here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicochetII Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Bergevin is looking to pull another Prust out of the hat methinks. Or at least mehopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 The interesting thing about Weise is that it gives us basically a perfect test of "skill vs. grit" in Weise vs. Bourque.They are both big, strong and fast wingers. I could see Therrien playing both on the same line (Eller in the middle? So much for him to work with!! lol). So who helps us more? - Weise uses his size way better but is not a very good finisher. High energy player. Grit - Rene has way better hands but as we often hear, can be 'unmotivated.' Skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 And they were both acquired for useful "soft" players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeanCountingHab Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 What a disaster this year has become. Diaz is a top 4 D and we traded him away for a 4th line grinder. I mean if it means less Parros that's great but it means more Murray which is a huge problem. Doesn't bode well for this management team's talent evaluation, Diaz is the kind of player a team like Chicago would keep on their roster because he drives possession, whether or not he's "soft". Well, good for Diaz I guess to be sent to Vancouver, a team run in a way that appreciates talent like him over lumbering veterans who can't skate or mlve the puck. I mean great that we got some grit but it came at the expense of a top 4 defender which is ridiculous. At least we'll win a line brawl on the way to our 1st round exit this year. I mostly agree, except your post seems to suggest we actually make the playoffs on this path we're on. I don't generally put too much stock in these HockeyNews forecasts, but the one for Dale Weise is too funny not to post: a symbol of what appears to be the MB/MT mentality: Assets: Has good size and plays the game with honest effort and sound work ethic. Excels as a forechecker. Will also drop the gloves if the situation warrants it. Flaws: Doesn't have natural talent, so points are always the result of maximum effort--even at lower levels. Isn't very useful if he's not hitting early and often. Career Potential: Depth crash-and-bang winger. http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?6956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy_133 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 The interesting thing about Weise is that it gives us basically a perfect test of "skill vs. grit" in Weise vs. Bourque. They are both big, strong and fast wingers. I could see Therrien playing both on the same line (Eller in the middle? So much for him to work with!! lol). So who helps us more? - Weise uses his size way better but is not a very good finisher. High energy player. Grit - Rene has way better hands but as we often hear, can be 'unmotivated.' Skill. Bourque isn't that skilled, I mean he has some skill but he's not one of those guys who can coast and produce like an Andrei Kostitsyn. Hence the fact that he's on pace for 14 points, I suppose. I wouldn't even classify Rene as lazy I just think the concussion issues can mess a guy's game up pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicochetII Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 We play the Canucks Thursday ... Diaz doesn't have to wait long to make us regret moving him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs_93 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I don't generally put too much stock in these HockeyNews forecasts, but the one for Dale Weise is too funy not post: a symbol of appears to be the MB/MT mentality: Yeah, about that... Harrison Mooney @HarrisonMooney Follow Dirty secret about Weise: he’s not really all that tough, and he never really liked being used as a tough guy. Sees himself as a skill guy. 1:11 PM - 3 Feb 2014 https://twitter.com/HarrisonMooney/status/430403157617696769 Mooney's a Canucks reporter/blogger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Bourque isn't that skilled, I mean he has some skill but he's not one of those guys who can coast and produce like an Andrei Kostitsyn. Hence the fact that he's on pace for 14 points, I suppose. I wouldn't even classify Rene as lazy I just think the concussion issues can mess a guy's game up pretty quick. Yeah but he's skill for us. I dont think Weise is that gritty either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsology2 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 What a disaster this year has become. Diaz is a top 4 D and we traded him away for a 4th line grinder. I mean if it means less Parros that's great but it means more Murray which is a huge problem. Doesn't bode well for this management team's talent evaluation, Diaz is the kind of player a team like Chicago would keep on their roster because he drives possession, whether or not he's "soft". Well, good for Diaz I guess to be sent to Vancouver, a team run in a way that appreciates talent like him over lumbering veterans who can't skate or mlve the puck. I mean great that we got some grit but it came at the expense of a top 4 defender which is ridiculous. At least we'll win a line brawl on the way to our 1st round exit this year. This. What is it with MB. You see all the games that we are losing due to a lack of scoring, and what does do? Gives away one our skilled defensemen for a...I don't know what. Does he fill a need that this team has? I don't think so. I am going to put another tack in the loss category for MB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raydourque Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Well we watch a team that employs Murray and Bouillon so we shouldn't have to waste our time cringing at what other teams do. I 've always loved what Frankie B brought to the team but realize he's not the same player he was long ago, as for Murray. I dig what he brings. He's here to clear the crease and block shots with toughness and I think he's done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 A good second pairing defenseman for a 4th liner. I get trading him if your not gonna resign him but diminishing his trade value by putting him in the press box while playing way worse players is crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerplay2009 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 We're going to regret this trade when we hindsight tells us we traded a legit top-4 (ideally bottom pairing, but only on teams like St Louis and Chicago) for a 4th liner. Robbery by Vancouver, so long as Tortorella uses him right. MMW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 On Diaz: I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he asked for a trade a few weeks ago. I don't see any other reasonable explanation for why he was held out of the line-up for so long. The question is at what point this happened, but I think it's as reasonable an assumption as any to think Michel Therrien may have driven him out of town by the usage he was given. Diaz, in my estimation, is a third-pairing defenceman. He's at best a #5 guy who can play the second wave of the PP, and this season, he simply wasn't fulfilling that role very well. In fact, I would agree that Beaulieu has played the role we wanted Diaz to play better than Diaz did. This comes with a giant "however" though, which is that despite his offensive difficulties, I would still peg Diaz as having been our 4th best defenceman this year, behind Subban, Markov, and Gorges. Emelin has struggled since his return, and it's not even worth comparing the others to what Diaz brings. Diaz was quite reliable defensively and his puck-moving abilities are far superior to what we see from out bottom 4 defencemen without him. While I understand sticking it out with Emelin (with good odds he'll get back into form with time, especially if he moves back to the left side), it makes no sense to choose a fill-in like Murray or Bouillon over Diaz; our difficulties moving the puck out of our own zone are evident, and a smart coach wouldn't have asked himself the question "Diaz or Beaulieu?", he would have used both in the same line-up. On Weise: Marc Bergevin has been consistent with his philosophy, I'll give him that. Just about every signing or trade he's made has brought in a guy for character, grit, or language. If you look at the notable players he's acquired (or signed going into unrestricted free agency), the list includes Prust, Moen, Parros, Murray, Bouillon, Briere, Desharnais, and now Weise. The one guy who appears to be the exception to that rule was Ryder, who ended up just being here for a cup of coffee and wasn't part of MB's plan anyways. So yes, Weise may bring some grit and size, but it seems like a stretch to believe that was the missing ingredient on this team. Say for example that we had Ryan White coming back from injury instead of Weise being acquired. Is the team really any better off with Weise instead of White? We already have a fair contingent of role players and fringe guys up front. What this team really needs is a sniper and a #3 defenceman. Weise is a step up over Parros, it's true, but Parros is still here and Thomas is the guy they deleted from the 23-man roster in order to slide Weise in. So we now seemingly have all of Moen, Prust, White, Weise, and Parros in the same line-up, which is a lot of the same and not a lot of anything to address our real problems. The 4th line was never the issue on this team, and we've traded one of the few puck-moving defencemen we had to acquire a player whose skillset is already redundant here. Like most of Marc Bergevin's moves, this one isn't back-breaking, but it's not explicable either, and it seems misguided more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Saw another interesting tweet today; Just a reminder, Habs drafted/signed Diaz, McDonagh, Grabbo, Streit, Higgins, Hainsey, Beauchemin, Robidas and have garbage to show for it. I'd add Ribeiro to that list as well. Really depressing to see it all laid out like that. Just another trade in the long list of dumb moves from this franchise. Tired of letting productive players walk because they're too soft/bad in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee-X Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Diaz, in a season that has been so bad that the coach won't even play him when we're desperate for a right-handed D-man, has 11 points in 46 games (as a defenceman). Again, this is from a defenceman in a bad season (up until now his PPG rate was about 0.36). He was traded for a forward who has 12 points in 44 games this year. Up until this year his PPG rate was about 0.11. Again, as a forward. Forget any advanced stats or anything else - on a team that is struggling for offence as much as we are does this make any sense? In any case, I wish Dale all the best and I hope he does well here. But from a management side, I just don't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Diaz is ideally your #5 but for most teams he's in the top 4. Only Chicago, St.Louis etc. He started over 70% of his shifts in the D zone and still had the best goals against per 60 minutes among our defencemen and it wasn't even close. He's underrated. I don't care if he's soft or afraid to take a hit, he gets the job done defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest habs1952 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Surely Habs management scouted Weise and must have seen something they liked about him. He had decent numbers his last year of junior in Swift Current so maybe he hasn't been used properly. I won't know if this was a good deal or not until I see him play a few games and see how he's used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Surely Habs management scouted Weise and must have seen something they liked about him. He had decent numbers his last year of junior in Swift Current so maybe he hasn't been used properly. I won't know if this was a good deal or not until I see him play a few games and see how he's used. Which you might say if this wasn't the same group that had "scouted" and decided to sign Murray, Parros, etc. I don't have much any faith in Bergevin and company's ability to judge talent. That can change with time, but as of yet, I really don't like the direction Bergevin is taking this team, and he seems to have given a useful (albeit not great) player like Diaz up in exchange for a player who doesn't meet a need here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noob616 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Surely Habs management scouted Weise and must have seen something they liked about him. He had decent numbers his last year of junior in Swift Current so maybe he hasn't been used properly. I won't know if this was a good deal or not until I see him play a few games and see how he's used. 6'2", 210 lbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 6'2", 210 lbs. And he's very fast - he's one of the faster big players in the league. I just am worried he doesnt have the hands or the hockey sense to do much when he gets there (at least based on what ive seen on the 'nucks). Maybe he can just run into opposing goalies? In all seriousness though, I do wish him the best of luck. Who knows, maybe he lines up on the right of Eller and Galchenyuk and creates room for them & they start piling up the points. We can dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitive Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Surely Habs management scouted Weise and must have seen something they liked about him. He had decent numbers his last year of junior in Swift Current so maybe he hasn't been used properly. I won't know if this was a good deal or not until I see him play a few games and see how he's used. That's what I've been trying to say, he's had good numbers in junior, even in the AHL. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to show that offensive flair in the NHL. I think that's what Bergevin sees in him - A big guy who can hit and occasionally score. But until he shows this, I'm afraid the trade is a little one-sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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