Bye bye Diaz! Hello Dale Weise

[BigTed3]

That's what I've been trying to say, he's had good numbers in junior, even in the AHL.

Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to show that offensive flair in the NHL.

I think that's what Bergevin sees in him - A big guy who can hit and occasionally score.

But until he shows this, I'm afraid the trade is a little one-sided.

Which is great, if Bergevin actually made the trade because he saw Weise as an untapped potential. But in the comments MB made, it sounds like he acquired him because of grit and physicality, more than anything else. It was the same thing when he traded for Christian Thomas: he didn't come out and say he went after him because he thought he was more skilled than Kristo, he said he went after him because he had more character. This deal seems pretty similar, Bergevin stocking up on character and size and sacrificing puck skill to do so.

[Guest mrsmarkov]

I don't love the trade, but I don't hate it. Diaz deserves to be on a team that will make use of him. I've always been a fan of Diaz and I will definitely miss his slap shot & of coarse his humbleness. What a good guy. I hope Vancouver has a regular spot for him just like they have for Weber. I wish him the best. I'm looking forward to seeing Weise, I've always liked him. He reminds me quite a bit of Prust, so that never hurts to have someone similar to Prust. This kid is a warrior and he works hard every night. Not much more I can ask from him. I think he will be a perfect fit. *crosses fingers*

[jamez74]

I don't mind this deal. Diaz was a UFA after this season and I can't see that they would have brought him back the way he was being used so at least we didn't let him walk for nothing. We also have other defensemen that can do what he was doing. Murray on the other hand can hold his own physically vs players like Chara and Byfuglien, no one else on our D currently could do that.

Beaulieu has looked pretty good out there as well. We also save about 500K on the cap.

[Guest mrsmarkov]

I don't mind this deal. Diaz was a UFA after this season and I can't see that they would have brought him back the way he was being used so at least we didn't let him walk for nothing. We also have other defensemen that can do what he was doing. Murray on the other hand can hold his own physically vs players like Chara and Byfuglien, no one else on our D currently could do that.

Beaulieu has looked pretty good out there as well. We also save about 500K on the cap.

Love your signature You can never go wrong with Pink Floyd.

[BigTed3]

I don't mind this deal. Diaz was a UFA after this season and I can't see that they would have brought him back the way he was being used so at least we didn't let him walk for nothing. We also have other defensemen that can do what he was doing. Murray on the other hand can hold his own physically vs players like Chara and Byfuglien, no one else on our D currently could do that.

Beaulieu has looked pretty good out there as well. We also save about 500K on the cap.

The problem is that we don't have enough other defencemen who can do what he did. And by that, I mean move the puck out of our own zone and play reliable defence. These are pretty basic skills to have for defencemen, and yet we've had a lot of struggles trying to find 6 guys who can do them reliably. Murray hasn't. Bouillon hasn't. Emelin hasn't done so with any consistency, and even Gorges provides very little with the puck on his stick.

I don't understand the philosophy that because Subban and Markov are good offensively that none of the other D men have to be. Why can't we have 6 guys who can move the puck? I'm not asking for 6 guys who can put up 10 goals and 40 points each, I'm only asking for 6 guys who can clear their zone effectively and move the puck up to the forwards to spring chances. Murray, yes, has the size to go up against Chara, but despite that size, he still had worse defensive numbers than Diaz. If size really trumped sound positional play and puck skill, then Murray should have posted better +/-, Corsi, etc. than Diaz... he didn't. What that tells me is that despite his lack of size, Diaz was still a lot more effective than Murray. Yes, I'm with you on wanting to have a little bit more size on the back end, but NOT at the expense of other basic hockey skills.

[NewfoundlandHab]

Maybe Bergevin will do the same thing he did with Diaz/Beaulieu with Murray/Tinordi or Boullion/Pateryn. That being get rid of the vet to make room for the kid.

[BeanCountingHab]

Excerpt from the latest analysis at EOTP says it all:

Of all defenseman to play 300 or more minutes last season, Raphael Diaz ranked third in the NHL in fewest goals against every 60 minutes of play with 1.128. This season that number has risen to 1.719, but remains the best mark on the Canadiens by a significant margin.

The fact that Diaz was kept out of the lineup in favour of Douglas Murray, who is on the ice for 2.703 goals against per 60 minutes is a farce to begin with, but when you consider the difference in the minutes the two play, it's even worse.

Murray plays against the weakest competition of anyone on the Canadiens, not any defenseman, any player, and is the most zonally sheltered player on the team. In spite of this extreme level of protection, he's been outscored 25-5 on the season, and is Montreal's worst possession player.

Diaz on the other hand, has seen extremely tough deployment, with just 28.4% of his total shifts beginning in the offensive zone, playing against reasonably tough competition, and playing with awful teammates.

In fact, when given a chance to play with a good partner in Josh Gorges, the Canadiens experienced a goals for percentage of 57.1% while the two were on the ice together, and they were playing extreme tough minutes while P.K. Subban and Andrei Markovmopped up offensively.

The only time Diaz struggled this season was while paired with Douglas Murray. While the two of them together the Canadiens had a share of just 14.3% of goals scored.

Excerpt from the latest analysis at EOTP says it all:

Of all defenseman to play 300 or more minutes last season, Raphael Diaz ranked third in the NHL in fewest goals against every 60 minutes of play with 1.128. This season that number has risen to 1.719, but remains the best mark on the Canadiens by a significant margin.

The fact that Diaz was kept out of the lineup in favour of Douglas Murray, who is on the ice for 2.703 goals against per 60 minutes is a farce to begin with, but when you consider the difference in the minutes the two play, it's even worse.

Murray plays against the weakest competition of anyone on the Canadiens, not any defenseman, any player, and is the most zonally sheltered player on the team. In spite of this extreme level of protection, he's been outscored 25-5 on the season, and is Montreal's worst possession player.

Diaz on the other hand, has seen extremely tough deployment, with just 28.4% of his total shifts beginning in the offensive zone, playing against reasonably tough competition, and playing with awful teammates.

In fact, when given a chance to play with a good partner in Josh Gorges, the Canadiens experienced a goals for percentage of 57.1% while the two were on the ice together, and they were playing extreme tough minutes while P.K. Subban and Andrei Markovmopped up offensively.

The only time Diaz struggled this season was while paired with Douglas Murray. While the two of them together the Canadiens had a share of just 14.3% of goals scored.

[js2]

So Bergevin traded away a puck moving defenceman that Therrien refused to play and got a 4th liner in return. I'm not a fan of this.

[ColRouleBleu]

Will Diaz keep his jersey number in Vancouver? I'm concerned about how McLean will call him

In all seriousness, I dont mind the trade for since Diaz was clearly not in the plans anymore and I dont know Weise at all. I guess I'll just form my opinion as I see him play.

[jennifer_rocket]

Some of the comments in here make the deal sound downright depressing. I don't much about Weise, but I am becoming disappointed that Diaz was let go.

[jeff33]

diaz wasnt going to play and he wasnt resigning..ok trade him

once again we are left asking though...was this the best we could get??

is this guy even going to play?? who does he play instead of?

i already have to live with looking at danny briere every game out there accomplishing nothing, while jagr leads nj in scoring. i already have to live rene bourque. i wont even get into guys around the league we had to get rid of, fine, but got nothing for, since someone already posted the list and its not good for my health to look at it again

we honestly have to win the award for the worst trading organization in the last 10 years. lol.. not to have a fit over losing diaz, im just tired of this god awful asset management year after year, especially when its a new guy who isnt going anywhere so soon and hes already right there keeping up the proud habs tradition of losing in trades

[Guest habs1952]

The problem is that we don't have enough other defencemen who can do what he did. And by that, I mean move the puck out of our own zone and play reliable defence. These are pretty basic skills to have for defencemen, and yet we've had a lot of struggles trying to find 6 guys who can do them reliably. Murray hasn't. Bouillon hasn't. Emelin hasn't done so with any consistency, and even Gorges provides very little with the puck on his stick.

I don't understand the philosophy that because Subban and Markov are good offensively that none of the other D men have to be. Why can't we have 6 guys who can move the puck? I'm not asking for 6 guys who can put up 10 goals and 40 points each, I'm only asking for 6 guys who can clear their zone effectively and move the puck up to the forwards to spring chances. Murray, yes, has the size to go up against Chara, but despite that size, he still had worse defensive numbers than Diaz. If size really trumped sound positional play and puck skill, then Murray should have posted better +/-, Corsi, etc. than Diaz... he didn't. What that tells me is that despite his lack of size, Diaz was still a lot more effective than Murray. Yes, I'm with you on wanting to have a little bit more size on the back end, but NOT at the expense of other basic hockey skills.

Wouldn't Murray's Corsi # be affected by his 4 team mates on the ice with him? I mean, he's not solely responsible the Habs lack of puck possession when he's on the ice and neither is he responsible for rest of his 5 man unit being unable to keep the puck in the opponents zone. He's also not responsible if the forwards can't/won't/don't help retrieve the puck in their own end. He's not the only player on the ice so surely there must be other players who's Corsi numbers are bad but everyone wants to point the finger solely at him.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

Wouldn't Murray's Corsi # be affected by his 4 team mates on the ice with him? I mean, he's not solely responsible the Habs lack of puck possession when he's on the ice and neither is he responsible for rest of his 5 man unit being unable to keep the puck in the opponents zone. He's also not responsible if the forwards can't/won't/don't help retrieve the puck in their own end. He's not the only player on the ice so surely there must be other players who's Corsi numbers are bad but everyone wants to point the finger solely at him.

But he has the worst on the team and everybody plays for the same team. And he has been sheltered heavily unlike the other guys.

[Guest habs1952]

But he has the worst on the team and everybody plays for the same team. And he has been sheltered heavily unlike the other guys.

Someones gonna be the worst. Are you telling me DD isn't sheltered?

[31Careyprice]

so Bergevin traded away a soft undersized 3rd pairing defensemen who couldn't crack the habs lineup for a big, fast physical 4th liner to improve the 4th line. I say it was a good move imo

[habs_93]

Wouldn't Murray's Corsi # be affected by his 4 team mates on the ice with him?

Both individually and relative to the other players on the team, Murray is dead last on the team, and in the bottom 5 or worse of the 216 defenceman who've played more than 20 games in the NHL this season.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

Someones gonna be the worst. Are you telling me DD isn't sheltered?

He is but he isn't a bad possession player. Murray starts a lot in the offensive zone yet gets stuck in our zone being out possessed.

Whenever Murray is on the ice our team plays bad. The 4 other players effect it, but Murrays corsi relative is still a big minus. And he blocks shots but his Fenwick isn't much better either.

so Bergevin traded away a soft undersized 3rd pairing defensemen who couldn't crack the habs lineup for a big, fast physical 4th liner to improve the 4th line. I say it was a good move imo

Actually he easily cracks the Habs lineup.

Unless his coach is Michel Therrien.

[31Careyprice]

Without Diaz, habs have 3 puck movers (Subban, Markov and Beaulieu), 4 stay at home players (Bouillon, Murray, Emelin, Gorges). Imo gives Nathan a great chance of sticking with the Canadiens.

[Guest habs1952]

Whenever Murray is on the ice our team plays bad.

:lol: Our team plays bad when Murray isn't on the ice too. :lol: Can't pin that on him. So who gets the blame for the Habs playing bad when Murray isn't on the ice?

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

:lol: Our team plays bad when Murray isn't on the ice too. :lol: Can't pin that on him. So who gets the blame for the Habs playing bad when Murray isn't on the ice?

Yeah but we play worse.

And to answer your second question, that is the bigger issue. The Therrien issue.

[Guest Regis2]

When Murray isn't on the ice and Habs play bad it's MT's fault.

[THEBIGGESTHABSFAN123]

When Murray isn't on the ice and Habs play bad it's MT's fault.

Even when Murray is on the ice and we play bad. Murray just makes it worse.

[Manatee-X]

Wouldn't Murray's Corsi # be affected by his 4 team mates on the ice with him? I mean, he's not solely responsible the Habs lack of puck possession when he's on the ice and neither is he responsible for rest of his 5 man unit being unable to keep the puck in the opponents zone. He's also not responsible if the forwards can't/won't/don't help retrieve the puck in their own end. He's not the only player on the ice so surely there must be other players who's Corsi numbers are bad but everyone wants to point the finger solely at him.

They're able to break the stats out on a per player basis. While there are other players on the team who also have bad stats, Murray's are by far the worst. If you want a quick visual without having to go too deeply into the numbers, check out the chart with all the coloured circles about half way down this page: http://www.extraskater.com/team/montreal-canadiens/2013

Murray's circle is that bright red one in the bottom-right corner. The more red the circle is, the worse his possession numbers. There are other guys that are just as red (Prust and White) but they also are way further left on the chart (meaning they always start in the defensive zone). Likewise there are other players who are babied almost as much as Murray with zone starts (Patches, Desharnais, the two Gallys) but they also play against better competition and three of those for are blue (meaning positive possession, even on our bad team).

So to recap, Murray is babied more than any other player in terms of zone starts, bar none. He plays against easier competition than every player other than White. And even with those two factors he is still the worst possession player on the team.

I guess my point is that people aren't just saying 'we don't like Murray' because they don't like his style of play. I also don't think that anybody is saying that Murray is the cause of our troubles - after all, he doesn't even play that often. The problem for me and a lot of people (and how it relates to this trade) is that we were playing a guy like Murray, who is objectively making us worse when he plays, while at the same time leaving a guy like Diaz to rot on the bench and to eventually be traded. It's not that we're blaming Murray for the team being bad (or really for anything), it's that we're blaming the coaching/management for not being able to see that Murray has been playing badly despite all evidence that he has been.

[Guest Regis2]

Great trade by the Habs. Adding a fourth liner should address the Habs' current inability to score goals

[Manatee-X]

In all seriousness, I dont mind the trade for since Diaz was clearly not in the plans anymore and I dont know Weise at all. I guess I'll just form my opinion as I see him play.

I see what you're saying, CRB, and when I look at it that way I agree. It's no use losing Diaz for nothing, and I don't really know anything about Weise. If he's in the Prust mold, which I've seen some people here say, I'm sure that I'll really enjoy watching him play. So we're getting something for Diaz rather than nothing - on the surface, a good thing.

My issue is that I don't know why it had to come to this with Diaz. I'm sure that had they actually given him some ice time they could have resigned him, and I'm betting that we'll see him signed to a pretty reasonable contract next year. So when you look at it that way we've wasted a pretty good defencemen on a pretty cheap contract just because we decided he wasn't a good 'fit' or something. So I guess I'm just feeling a little bummed about that.