Tank Watch 2016

[BigTed3]

Maybe Carey recovers soon. Maybe the team turns this around. But barring that, this team looks like it's not going to make the playoffs. According to sportsclubstats, our chances of making it in are down to 11%. So with that in mind, what's the plan for the rest of the season?

- Which players would you try to trade?

- Which players do you think we can trade?

- For what return?

- Who would you call up from the minors?

- Which player would you target in the draft?

[jeff33]

first of all , i have expressed the opinion in the past that our GM has officially lost the plot and has drank coach T's kool aid, meaning in simpler terms that he is imagining that everything is ok and coach has got it under control. in short, we wont be doing a firesale

my vote though

DD for literally anything is the key move

i think carr makes weise expendable, id move him for basically anything because i wouldnt resign him

ditto gilbert

emelin if you can get a taker

flynn, dsp for again , anything

my big one ive mentioned many times is capitano, to hopefully get a real return (1st and a good roster player/prospect) and get us under our actual leadership (gally and subban) rather than this vanilla corporate face deal we have going on

ghetto stays up, and hudon comes up. anyone else depends on if we can actually get rid of our plugs. those are my top 2, beyond that its one by one down the depth chart as we hypothetically cut the dead weight

[jennifer_rocket]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, my new favorite thread.

David Desharnais

Dale Weise

Tom Gilbert

Paul Byron

Brian Flynn

Alexei Emelin

DSP

I would be trying to move all of these guys. Maybe Emelin will waive that NTC since the team is tanking super hard right now. Flynn and Desharnais are not impending UFAs, but I would be doing my best to move them regardless. We're not going to get much return for these guys, but just migrating them out of the organization will be of benefit to the team for next season. Paul Byron has shown value this season. Especially as a penalty-killer. I like the guy, but as an impending UFA we should move him.

[Guest Regis2]

Carey's not coming back . He appears to have had a setback during skating drills

and if he did come back they would still NOT be able to turn this around.

It goes deeper than Price

- Who would you call up from the minors?

I don't know. We've alredy brought up so many guys as it is

- Which player would you target in the draft?

Best player available , not some kid who is 5 years away from making it ( maybe )

[jennifer_rocket]

Sven Andrighetto should be here playing regular minutes for the remainder of the season. Let's see what he can really do. Daniel Carr would - I assume - still be playing if he wasn't injured. I guess it doesn't really matter on "Bud" Holloway anymore.

Charles Hudon!

[Habs=stanleycup]

Perhaps I am off topic, but I would keep everything intact players wise until MT & MB are fired by Molson and get a fresh start. If I could, I would hire anyone from the Bowman family, and I would do so pronto to re-instill the dynasty.

[habs_93]

my big one ive mentioned many times is capitano, to hopefully get a real return (1st and a good roster player/prospect) and get us under our actual leadership (gally and subban) rather than this vanilla corporate face deal we have going on

Pacioretty's contract makes him an extremely valuable player. I'd be looking into it. But I'd only make a trade for a similar NHL player, today. There's no time for futures right now. I'm not sure there's another team with a similar player who isn't fitting on his team, though.

[Manatee-X]

Pacioretty's contract makes him an extremely valuable player. I'd be looking into it. But I'd only make a trade for a similar NHL player, today. There's no time for futures right now. I'm not sure there's another team with a similar player who isn't fitting on his team, though.

But Pacioretty's contract also makes him an extremely valuable player to us, and I can't see anything that we get for him being worth more.

I think we need to start treating the source of the problems and not the symptoms. If the problem is that Max shouldn't be captain, then let's reevaluate the captaincy. There's no reason to trade him, as he's still a premiere scorer on a spectacular contract. We have a problem with Desharnais taking up one of our centre slots and playing on the first line. This isn't something that we need to fix by trading him, it's something that we need to fix by not playing him at centre and not playing him on the first line (a.k.a. get a new coach).

At this point we need to be thinking of next year, of life beyond the tank. But any draft picks that we get, unless they're high first rounders (and probably not even then), will be at least three years away from making any impact in the NHL. That's three prime years for Price, Subban, Patches and Petry that we'll have wasted if that's all we concentrate on. Now I'm not saying that we need to trade away draft picks in order to make a run, but I am saying that trading someone like Plekanec for picks (especially right now when he's at his lowest value) is probably not going to help us much.

[jennifer_rocket]

But Pacioretty's contract also makes him an extremely valuable player to us, and I can't see anything that we get for him being worth more.

I think we need to start treating the source of the problems and not the symptoms. If the problem is that Max shouldn't be captain, then let's reevaluate the captaincy. There's no reason to trade him, as he's still a premiere scorer on a spectacular contract. We have a problem with Desharnais taking up one of our centre slots and playing on the first line. This isn't something that we need to fix by trading him, it's something that we need to fix by not playing him at centre and not playing him on the first line (a.k.a. get a new coach).

At this point we need to be thinking of next year, of life beyond the tank. But any draft picks that we get, unless they're high first rounders (and probably not even then), will be at least three years away from making any impact in the NHL. That's three prime years for Price, Subban, Patches and Petry that we'll have wasted if that's all we concentrate on. Now I'm not saying that we need to trade away draft picks in order to make a run, but I am saying that trading someone like Plekanec for picks (especially right now when he's at his lowest value) is probably not going to help us much.

I agree. I don't get the "trade the captain" discussion. He's on pace for another 30+ goal season and we have no other players capable of accomplishing that. Just because he's having an "off" season this year, doesn't mean we should trade him. Max might do incredibly well next season after having struggled this season. Arguably he needs to play with a better center-man (*cough* Alex *cough*). I don't think we should be trading Max.

[PAPPAPUMPED]

My fellow Habs fans I am heart broken as per the demise of our Habs.

Such a tragic turn of events that has placed the team in a down word spiral that I'm afraid they cannot recover from .

​It is safe to say a 23 & 3 finish to regain last years point total is I'm afraid far to much to expect .

If there is bright side to all of this the Canadiens can expect a decent draft pick in the this years draft .

​Go Habs Go !

[HabsAlways]

This is what our lineup should look like next year

Max Paccioretty Alex Galchenyuk Brendan Gallagher

Daniel Carr/Hudon Lars Eller Sven Andrighetto/?

Fleischmann Jacob De La Rose Dale Wiese/McCarron

Paul Byron Torey Mitchell Brian Flynn

In System : Scherbak - give him a full year in AHL

Gone : Plekenac, Desharnais

why : Desharnaise is obvious, he is not a #1 center and he's a one dimensional #2 at best. Keeping the 4 C's I list gives us the best all around usage. Plekenac because he's marketable and because he's just not brought his A game in the last 2 seasons.

Defence

Nathan Beaulieu PK Subban

Alexie Emelin Jeff Petry

Andrei Markov Mark Barberio

Greg Pateryn

Gone : Tom Gilbert

Why : Not really a failing on Gilbert's part, just gets pushed off the depth chart

Notes:

Depending on return for Plekenac, Desharnais and Gilbert ... 2nd line RW is fluid. If McCarron is ready, Weise slides down to 4th line in place of Flynn ... bigger body and faster. Weise only remain if he's signing a sub-2m contract.

Centers : JDLR is strong enough defensively to center a 3rd line checking unit, freeing up Eller to put more focus on offense. Losing Plekenac might sting, but I think Eller's increased role and JDLR's size and defensive ability will make up for it.

Left Wing : The only debate would be between Carr or Hudon at this point ...

Right Wing : Sven Andrighetto, but if a top-6 RW is obtained for Plekenac or we draft Gauthier ...

Defense : I think we're set on Defense

Goalie : Unless Carey's injury is career ending ...

[caperns]

Please please please do not trade patches, he is having an off season, but he is a top 10 scorer in this league at a bargain basement price... You have a core group in Patches, Subban, Price, Petry, Gallagher, Beaulieu, Galchenyk, Eller, McCarron. Even a player like Pleks has value. Unless you can sign a Stamkos I would hold on to Pleks. Eveything else should be moved. And let the Kids play out this season and you can evaluate which ones to keep and which ones to not resign or move at season end.

[Manatee-X]

Please please please do not trade patches, he is having an off season, but he is a top 10 scorer in this league at a bargain basement price... You have a core group in Patches, Subban, Price, Petry, Gallagher, Beaulieu, Galchenyk, Eller, McCarron. Even a player like Pleks has value. Unless you can sign a Stamkos I would hold on to Pleks. Eveything else should be moved. And let the Kids play out this season and you can evaluate which ones to keep and which ones to not resign or move at season end.

Agreed on all counts. I don't think we should move guys like Pleks and (especially) patches, but I'm okay with getting rid of any of our lower line guys even if we don't get much in return. I don't like the idea of tanking for a draft pick, but that doesn't mean I can't love the idea of playing as many kids as we can. For one it will get them experience, and even better it will give us an idea of where we stand for next year.

[jedimaas]

A few weeks ago i was very gung-ho for getting Therrien replaced & trying to get back into the playoff race. Now, im not so sure.

Dont get me wrong, I do not believe this team can with with Therrien at the helm, but we're in such a bad spot right now I am not sure if bringing in a guy like Boucher would do much at this point. If anything, it might hurt because you might end up losing him this summer and/or the team may not respond to him next year. Its still possible that with a change of direction we could get back into playoff contention but it seems very unlikely, so part of me thinks we should ride out Therrien & then clean house in the summer.

Of course the problem with this is that if they do this, there's still a chance Therrien remains employed next fall. So if we get rid of him now, its guaranteed we have a new coach next season. I guess the best case scenario would be to fire Therrien, promote an assistant as an interim and then bring in a new full time coach this summer.

As for our tanking, I would definitely look at moving on from guys like Markov, Weise, Emelin, Gilbert, Byron and Fleischmann. I would consider offers for Plekanec or Desharnais (i wouldnt move both, but one of the two). And i would play as many kids as I could as well as play our players in situations that they should be in going forward, for example: Galchenyuk at #1C. Eller at #3C. Try Beaulieu with PK full time. Can he be a #2? If not, do we need to try to acquire one? Etc.

Use the last 30 games for figuring out where our holes are & what we need to address this offseason.


Of course this probably wont happen, the status quo will prevail and we'll be right back where we started but thats how id do things if i could.

[jeff33]

Pacioretty's contract makes him an extremely valuable player. I'd be looking into it. But I'd only make a trade for a similar NHL player, today. There's no time for futures right now. I'm not sure there's another team with a similar player who isn't fitting on his team, though.

right. DD, weise, emelin, gilbert, i would trade for gatorade.

let me address my "trade patchy" platform

1. first opposition. he has a sweet contract for a 30 goal guy

agreed. it goes both ways though. ntc or no, emelin for 4 million in a cap era is very difficult to trade. patchy for 4.5 , any team in the league would be interested in that.

2. so why would we want to.

as my homeboy 93 has suggested, this is not a trade i want to make , like the others i mentioned, to get him off the books. i want to trade him because

a) as i just illustrated, his contract and resume make him delicious trade bait

he is not a star player, we need a star player, and he might be the only thing on the roster we can use to get one.

I dont want a bunch of futures for patch. I want him in a package to land a duchene for example, to use a name thats been out there.

3. the bottom line/what I see

a) patch is not a star. in fact i think hes a borderline 1st liner. dont quote his numbers at me. he is a great shooter with a great set of wheels. he can bury that biscuit when he gets the chance, and thats not something you just give away, but thats not what im suggesting.

patch is a non factor 5 on 5. he cant pass the ketchup in a restaurant. he does not hit anyone. he stinks on the cycle. he stinks on the pp. tell me..what was his sweet play of the year. when was the last time you went ohhh nice play patchy. post the video.

we are not winning squat if he is our "star" player. and yeah, 4.5, beautiful value. but its gonna end, and hes our C, and hes gonna want star captain money.

get him out now, while the value is high, and parlay this guy into a legit star player...... personally, i would do it, happily, for a 20 goal scorer with a well rounded game and a 1st round pick even.

[BigTed3]

I would refrain from trading Pacman unless the return was really good. By that, I mean that you're getting a return of proven NHL players who shift your Cup window back a couple of years. For example, if Edmonton offered up Draisaitl and RNH for Pacioretty, I would think about it. If Florida offered Huberdeau, Orlov, and a pick, I would think about it. And so on. But if you're doing that, it's because you don't think you can win now and it's because you think Galchenyuk is a better forward to build around than Pacioretty. Otherwise, as it stands, Pacioretty is a top 10 goal scorer in the league. He's on a brilliant contract. It would be hard to find better value than that elsewhere, so he's a hot commodity both as a talent and as cap value. I don't think this team needs to panic and deal off true assets who can be helpful in the future. With a new coach and GM, this team can be competitive for a Cup immediately. So there is no need for a full-on firesale for nothing. You want to clean out the parts that aren't going to be around for much longer and that are declining in value... Markov, maybe Plekanec if a deal is there, Desharnais, etc. You want to dump some of the excess grinders we have, so one or two of Flynn, DSP, Byron, Weise... and you can look at dealing impending UFA's like Fleischmann or Gilbert if it gets you a return. But otherwise, there's zero need to deal your core away when really the core is still fine and it's the coach who needs to go.

[HabsAlways]

I would refrain from trading Pacman unless the return was really good. By that, I mean that you're getting a return of proven NHL players who shift your Cup window back a couple of years. For example, if Edmonton offered up Draisaitl and RNH for Pacioretty, I would think about it. If Florida offered Huberdeau, Orlov, and a pick, I would think about it. And so on. But if you're doing that, it's because you don't think you can win now and it's because you think Galchenyuk is a better forward to build around than Pacioretty. Otherwise, as it stands, Pacioretty is a top 10 goal scorer in the league. He's on a brilliant contract. It would be hard to find better value than that elsewhere, so he's a hot commodity both as a talent and as cap value. I don't think this team needs to panic and deal off true assets who can be helpful in the future. With a new coach and GM, this team can be competitive for a Cup immediately. So there is no need for a full-on firesale for nothing. You want to clean out the parts that aren't going to be around for much longer and that are declining in value... Markov, maybe Plekanec if a deal is there, Desharnais, etc. You want to dump some of the excess grinders we have, so one or two of Flynn, DSP, Byron, Weise... and you can look at dealing impending UFA's like Fleischmann or Gilbert if it gets you a return. But otherwise, there's zero need to deal your core away when really the core is still fine and it's the coach who needs to go.

I would argue the only reason Paccioretty is a top-10 goal scorer in the league is somebody has to lead MTL in goals. End of the day, he's a borderline 1st line winger. Saying "f Edmonton offered up Draisaitl and RNH for Pacioretty" ... Draisaitl is far more skilled and we'd have to give up Pac + picks/pieces. Lets not continue to over value that talent on this team ..,. with the exception of Price and Subban everyone else is expendable

[jennifer_rocket]

I would argue the only reason Paccioretty is a top-10 goal scorer in the league is somebody has to lead MTL in goals. End of the day, he's a borderline 1st line winger. Saying "f Edmonton offered up Draisaitl and RNH for Pacioretty" ... Draisaitl is far more skilled and we'd have to give up Pac + picks/pieces. Lets not continue to over value that talent on this team ..,. with the exception of Price and Subban everyone else is expendable

Pacioretty is a consistent 30+ goal scorer in the NHL. He's probably the third most valuable part on our team after Price and Subban.

[BigTed3]

I would argue the only reason Paccioretty is a top-10 goal scorer in the league is somebody has to lead MTL in goals. End of the day, he's a borderline 1st line winger. Saying "f Edmonton offered up Draisaitl and RNH for Pacioretty" ... Draisaitl is far more skilled and we'd have to give up Pac + picks/pieces. Lets not continue to over value that talent on this team ..,. with the exception of Price and Subban everyone else is expendable

Pacioretty is a consistent 30+ goal scorer in the NHL. He's probably the third most valuable part on our team after Price and Subban.

If Pacioretty were only a goal scorer because someone has to lead Montreal, then wouldn't he still be 30th in goals? He's still doing better than most other team's goal-scoring leaders. There are very few players in the league who can score goals at the same clip as Pacioretty, who can do it at his age, and who are on such a low cap hit. He may not be the most exciting player with the puck, the way a guy like Crosby or Ovechkin is. But he's got equally as much puck sense around the net as any sniper in the league. Sure he has trade value, but what are you trading him for?

1. An older player with talent... doesn't make sense for the core we have with Subban, Price, Galchenyuk, etc.

2. A similar player in talent/age but who's making more money... what's the advantage for us there?

3. A group of prospects or picks... would mean we're closing the book on trying to win with Subban and Price, which is dumb.

4. An already-established young NHLer or two with more potential but less of a track record than Pacioretty... the only deal that somewhat makes sense and only if you admit the core is shifting a bit and that you're writing off Plekanec, Markov, DD, etc. as being any sort of assets and trying to build around Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu, and still Subban but maybe less so Price.

[habsisme]

We MUST trade GILBERT, WEISE, DD, and either PLEKANEC or ELLER (the preference would be Pleks but I just don't think that's possible). If MB does anything short of that then he should be fired at the end of the season. Four of those guys are very tradable, even if there's not much of a return.

If he can move Markov and/or Emelin, that would also be great but I don't think that's possible either. I'd actually prefer to move Emelin because Markov only has one year left and I think we could easily trade him next year but getting rid of either one for a bag of pucks would be great

[BigTed3]

No reason to trade Eller. He's a perfect 3rd line center. We absolutely need to deal away Desharnais; we might consider trading Plekanec if there's an offer that makes sense. But we do need to keep some centers too. We have Galchenyuk as a potential #1. You can argue someone like McCarron or Hudon could be groomed for a #2 role. But until then, we need someone else around. It makes more sense to keep Eller, who's on a better deal and is younger than Plekanec.

[habsisme]

No reason to trade Eller. He's a perfect 3rd line center. We absolutely need to deal away Desharnais; we might consider trading Plekanec if there's an offer that makes sense. But we do need to keep some centers too. We have Galchenyuk as a potential #1. You can argue someone like McCarron or Hudon could be groomed for a #2 role. But until then, we need someone else around. It makes more sense to keep Eller, who's on a better deal and is younger than Plekanec.

I agree but Plekanec might not be tradeable

[BigTed3]

I agree but Plekanec might not be tradeable

He might not be. But I still wouldn't trade Eller. If we can't trade Plekanec for anything good, I'm comfortable going into next season with Galchenyuk as a #1, Pleks as 2, and Eller as 3. The problem is Desharnais. If you can deal him, the other three guys fall into the right place.

[Guest habs1952]

I agree but Plekanec might not be tradeable

The stink from this team/organization may make Pleky quite amenable to a trade. The same may be said for Emelin. Obviously it would depend on what team they are traded to. Markov I'm not sure about. I think he is just too comfortable in Montreal.

[jeff33]

If Pacioretty were only a goal scorer because someone has to lead Montreal, then wouldn't he still be 30th in goals? He's still doing better than most other team's goal-scoring leaders. There are very few players in the league who can score goals at the same clip as Pacioretty, who can do it at his age, and who are on such a low cap hit. He may not be the most exciting player with the puck, the way a guy like Crosby or Ovechkin is. But he's got equally as much puck sense around the net as any sniper in the league. Sure he has trade value, but what are you trading him for?

1. An older player with talent... doesn't make sense for the core we have with Subban, Price, Galchenyuk, etc.

2. A similar player in talent/age but who's making more money... what's the advantage for us there?

3. A group of prospects or picks... would mean we're closing the book on trying to win with Subban and Price, which is dumb.

4. An already-established young NHLer or two with more potential but less of a track record than Pacioretty... the only deal that somewhat makes sense and only if you admit the core is shifting a bit and that you're writing off Plekanec, Markov, DD, etc. as being any sort of assets and trying to build around Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Beaulieu, and still Subban but maybe less so Price.

haha, ok lets do it ted. im normally in total agreement with you so this is fun

i said id do patch + for an upgrade on our "star forward: role, OR id do patch for a good complementary player + a 1st

1. doesnt cover it, depending on who we get though. probably not. i dont want a star of yesteryear

2. similar player on a big contract, nope. similar player who is actually in reality a way better player for more money, i definitely think about it. plugging in my criteria, sure, because as i said,i dont think we win squat with patchy as our star because hes not a star and patchy's contract will expire and then he will want that same money..

id rather be giving that kind of money to someone legit e.g stamkos ( i know i know, ufa and so on, just for the sake of comparables)

3. a group of futures i dont want. a combination of a future and a 20 goal guy, done. all day. ( my opinion)

4. we agree it makes sense, and a combination of 3 and 4 is what id be looking for.

as i have stated, i dont buy patchy as a star, and rank his actual value to the team something like a van riemsdyk. i just do not see this guy as a legit star in this league and would not be sad at all to part with him, just as long as its a good trade.

rocket ranked him 3rd on our depth chart, i dont. i put gallagher, chuck and yes, eller above him. eller is a possession monster and a great 2 way forward. hes an untouchable on my list

you also said something about giving up on him means giving up on the subban and price window, and i totally disagree. patch is not a star. subban and price are. thats our true keepers right now, with chuck and gally being our up and coming stars ( although i dont think gally is a "star" but i would give him the C if we trade patchy, although i do believe subban is the real on ice leader. gally is our team mascot and an on ice leader himself.)

saying patch is only our top goal scorer, because someone has to be, is a bit of a stretch....he truly has one of the best shots in the game and wheels to get in that position. inarguably a top 10 goal scorer.....but again, not a star. someone you do not cast off like junk, and very possibly a great complement to a revamped team. on the other hand, i feel he is our best trade asset, an organizational devotion to him as our "star" is a huge mistake. hes a slightly better ryder with wheels.

if there is a trade that is tantalizing, oh boy do i do it in a heart beat.....my god ted, huberdeau? 1 for 1. and i do it all day.