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Tank Watch 2016


BigTed3

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I'm praying for two more losses this weekend, followed by the replacement of our coaching staff on Monday. I would take anyone as an interim, as long as the message from top-down is, "Develop players A, B, C, and D, in these positions! Losing will not hurt your chances of getting a permanent position in the summer when we evaluate a large pool of candidates for the head coaching job."

Then I would like to see:

Max Pacioretty - Alex Galchenyuk - Brendan Gallagher

Sven Andrighetto - Tomas Plekanec - George "Bud" Holloway

Charles Hudon - Lars Eller - Michael McCarron

Jacob de la Rose - Torrey Mitchell - Brian Flynn

(Weise, Fleischmann, DSP, Desharnais... out. Lessio and Carr injured).

Nathan Beaulieu - P.K. Subban

Mark Barberio - Jeff Petry

Andrei Markov - Greg Pateryn

(Emelin and Gilbert... out).

Mike Condon

Ben Scrivens

(I would also allow Fucale to play a couple of games in Montreal. Price injured).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Personally, I'm against any tanking, and for these reasons. If by some miracle, we obtained the top 3 picks, (1,2,3), as long as MT is in charge of their deployment, he would play them out of position or bury them on the 3-4 lines. They would be soooo mismanaged that they would beg to get out of Montreal. MT can't even figure out what to do with our #3 pic (Chuckie), let alone the 3 top picks. He wouldn't give them the opportunity to succeed, and thus putting us further behind other clubs in a plan to be a contender. If we tank, that means a (another?) 3-5 year plan to get to the SCF, and a large turnover in personnel. We all know the problem with Chuckie, in that MT/MB doesn't give him the wingers to play him at center. IMO, we won't be winning anything until MT is fired. BIG MB FAIL!!!!

We're caught between the proverbial rock and another rock. We will have the 9-12 pic and will take years for him to develop (notice Tinordi). If we stick with this crew (MB & MT, and other coaches, save Waite), we're wasting our best players years, and contracts.,

Are Patches,,,, Carey,,, Pk,,,,,Pleks,,, Eller,,, and some of the "older" (25-28 yr. olds now) players still going to perform at their current levels for the next 3-4 years as we "rebuild"??

Two years ago,,, Carey got hurt in the POs, ,, then last year, IIRC, we were "out of gas". This past Oct. we were planning the parade, and then Carey went down and MB either really believed that he would be back in Jan, and didn't address this issue, or there's some incompetent doctors out there. IMO, we could have had Budaj back for a 1st/2nd/3rd, so that we might have had a decent chance to get to the 2nd round.

From a personal standpoint, I'm pretty sure I'm the oldest (in age) member here, and I've never been to the parade, but I want to. With Laurel and Hardy at the helm I doubt if there will be any parade soon.

SRY for the rant, but I am REALLY ticked (best I can do without getting a warning).

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Personally, I'm against any tanking, and for these reasons. If by some miracle, we obtained the top 3 picks, (1,2,3), as long as MT is in charge of their deployment, he would play them out of position or bury them on the 3-4 lines. They would be soooo mismanaged that they would beg to get out of Montreal. MT can't even figure out what to do with our #3 pic (Chuckie), let alone the 3 top picks. He wouldn't give them the opportunity to succeed, and thus putting us further behind other clubs in a plan to be a contender. If we tank, that means a (another?) 3-5 year plan to get to the SCF, and a large turnover in personnel. We all know the problem with Chuckie, in that MT/MB doesn't give him the wingers to play him at center. IMO, we won't be winning anything until MT is fired. BIG MB FAIL!!!!

We're caught between the proverbial rock and another rock. We will have the 9-12 pic and will take years for him to develop (notice Tinordi). If we stick with this crew (MB & MT, and other coaches, save Waite), we're wasting our best players years, and contracts.,

Are Patches,,,, Carey,,, Pk,,,,,Pleks,,, Eller,,, and some of the "older" (25-28 yr. olds now) players still going to perform at their current levels for the next 3-4 years as we "rebuild"??

Two years ago,,, Carey got hurt in the POs, ,, then last year, IIRC, we were "out of gas". This past Oct. we were planning the parade, and then Carey went down and MB either really believed that he would be back in Jan, and didn't address this issue, or there's some incompetent doctors out there. IMO, we could have had Budaj back for a 1st/2nd/3rd, so that we might have had a decent chance to get to the 2nd round.

From a personal standpoint, I'm pretty sure I'm the oldest (in age) member here, and I've never been to the parade, but I want to. With Laurel and Hardy at the helm I doubt if there will be any parade soon.

SRY for the rant, but I am REALLY ticked (best I can do without getting a warning).

heres the thing

it might be that the only way coach T gets fired is if we really finish in the basement. if we finish the year strong and miss the playoffs by a couple of points, our intrepid GM will have a real easy narrative of "oh look we didnt have price and we were still almost a playoff team"

regardless of where we draft, i think getting rid of this coach is the absolute key here, and if it takes us tanking then im all for it.

if we tank and he still gets to coach next year, which at this point im horrified is actually possible, then you are bang on.

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heres the thing

it might be that the only way coach T gets fired is if we really finish in the basement. if we finish the year strong and miss the playoffs by a couple of points, our intrepid GM will have a real easy narrative of "oh look we didnt have price and we were still almost a playoff team"

regardless of where we draft, i think getting rid of this coach is the absolute key here, and if it takes us tanking then im all for it.

if we tank and he still gets to coach next year, which at this point im horrified is actually possible, then you are bang on.

So,,, either way, we're looking at 3-5 years IMO.

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So,,, either way, we're looking at 3-5 years IMO.

Not at all. Lets say we finish in the bottom 3 and have a great chance at Matthews, Puljujarvi, Tkachuk, Laine etc - these are all potentially-ready NHL players already.

Assuming you have a new coach - with a system no less! - and the only thing that Bergevin (if he's still here) does between now and then is move the UFAs and tweak the roster a little, we could start the year with a really nice core, a healthy price, a new system and a new star to go alongside Price, Subban, Patches, Galchenyuk and Gallagher.

If the cards are played right, this team could challenge next year, but some serious decisions have to be made NOW in order to do that.

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Not at all. Lets say we finish in the bottom 3 and have a great chance at Matthews, Puljujarvi, Tkachuk, Laine etc - these are all potentially-ready NHL players already.

Assuming you have a new coach - with a system no less! - and the only thing that Bergevin (if he's still here) does between now and then is move the UFAs and tweak the roster a little, we could start the year with a really nice core, a healthy price, a new system and a new star to go alongside Price, Subban, Patches, Galchenyuk and Gallagher.

If the cards are played right, this team could challenge next year, but some serious decisions have to be made NOW in order to do that.

And if the boys in the foxhole are still in the foxhole together next season,,, as they say,,,, "All bets are off".

IMO,,, MT will start next season and "if" MB does fire MT (by the 20 game mark, or less),,, then we have a chance.

"If" MB fires MT during the summer,,, then we have a better chance.

If MB fires MT and goes out and get "the best coach available, then we have an excellent chance.

If MB sticks with MT next year,,, then we have no chance.

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'A tank means fans are left watching sub-par performances while they continue to pay the full price of admission. Is it fair to rob loyal fans of an honest effort to win now in return for the promise of future success? A "promise" that has no guarantees?'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-canadiens-time-for-fans-to-embrace-tank-1.3457334

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According to sportslcubstats, we now have a 5.7% chance of making the playoffs, and an 11% chance of a bottom-5 finish in the league. The highest likelihood as of now is that we finish in the 8th-to-12th last range (54% odds of that happening), which is like no-mans land when it comes to success... no playoffs, no high draft pick unless you win the lottery.

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'A tank means fans are left watching sub-par performances while they continue to pay the full price of admission. Is it fair to rob loyal fans of an honest effort to win now in return for the promise of future success? A "promise" that has no guarantees?'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-canadiens-time-for-fans-to-embrace-tank-1.3457334

Well it depends.

If you are watching good, experienced players play poorly or lazily then yes, its hard to watch (and some argue it promotes bad habits going forward) however, if you tank properly (get rid of every UFA, move some other players not in the long-term) and then you let your kids play, good things can happen. They (the youth) will make mistakes- but they will learn.

Watching Markov get blown out by an opposing forward because he cant make the play? Painfull. Watching Darren Dietz do the exact same thing because he is learning? Not hard to watch at all - especially when you know he's going to learn exponentially if he doesn't have to feel responsible for losing valuable points down the stretch. Watching Mike McCarron go 10 games without points while learning the finer aspects of the game? No problem. Watching DD do so while just playing out the stretch (if he wasnt injured), fairly painful.

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AFAIK, the bottom team no longer automatically gets the 1st pick. That's why Buffalo lost out on McDavid! It's really a lottery now under the new drafting system.

But last place finisher has the highest odds of the 1st pick and no team can drop more than 3 spots. They only pull the lottery balls for the top 3, not the entire non-playoff seeding.

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The Laffs are leading the way to the best chance for the 1st pick. The Marlies and the Laffs should just switch leagues.

On SportsCentre this morning they were talking about the Leafs' trade with the Sharks. As a footnote to that story they mentioned that two of Toronto's prospects had been called up to replace the traded players (can't remember the names, sorry) and that one of them lined up in practice on the first line next to Kadri.

As bad as things must be to have to look to Toronto for inspiration, that, folks, is how you "tank" properly. Sure they might not win out the rest of the year, but if they keep on going this way in a few years time they're going to be a team to watch out for. At the rate we're going we're going to be a team with three or four great players, some rental plugs and a bunch of young guys who "didn't pan out".

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On SportsCentre this morning they were talking about the Leafs' trade with the Sharks. As a footnote to that story they mentioned that two of Toronto's prospects had been called up to replace the traded players (can't remember the names, sorry) and that one of them lined up in practice on the first line next to Kadri.

As bad as things must be to have to look to Toronto for inspiration, that, folks, is how you "tank" properly. Sure they might not win out the rest of the year, but if they keep on going this way in a few years time they're going to be a team to watch out for. At the rate we're going we're going to be a team with three or four great players, some rental plugs and a bunch of young guys who "didn't pan out".

You forgot to mention that some those young guys didn't pan out because of MT's deployment of them.

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As bad as things must be to have to look to Toronto for inspiration, that, folks, is how you "tank" properly. Sure they might not win out the rest of the year, but if they keep on going this way in a few years time they're going to be a team to watch out for. At the rate we're going we're going to be a team with three or four great players, some rental plugs and a bunch of young guys who "didn't pan out".

This. I hate to admit it, but our management team could learn a lot from Toronto right now. Im not suggesting we should be even close to a full on tank - we have a very solid core to build around - but this season should be written off & we should definitely be in "mini tank" mode. Keep the core, move the UFAs and start looking for "hockey trades" for the over 30s who likely wont be part of our long term plans. With a few key moves we could easily come back next year with a new system and a healthy Carey Price and challange for the cup... but right now it looks like its just status quo which probably wont get us very far.

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