BigTed3 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Regis2 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I guess Chicago's going all in for a Cup run . As for the guy the Habs got, know nothing of him Sounds like another bottom line up guy , who may or may not make it http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/phillip_danault/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Danault is 6 feet tall, 23 years old, played his junior in Victoriaville. Got some action with the Hawks this year and projects as a third-line, two-way center with good playmaking skills but not a ton of offensive flair. He's a former 1st-round pick from 2011. The pick is a 2nd from 2018 (which will likely be a late 2nd rounder). Montreal retains 30% of Weise's salary for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habberwacky Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 A good time to let some youth see if they can take us on a run. Surprised he didn't wait until after the Toronto game but with all the injuries I can see why he might have wanted to finish this tonight. I like the youth. Dale was going to have trouble competing with our youth and Fleischmann was done anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I didn't feel like Fleischmann had a ton of value on the market. I would have pegged his value as a 4th or 5th round pick. For Weise, I think his value should have been a 1st OR a combination of a 2nd with another 2nd or 3rd. In this case, we received a previous 1st rounder with a 2nd. The caveats are that the 1st rounder is a few years out from being drafted and the 2nd is only in two years and is likely going to be a late round choice. Overall, I don't think it's a bad deal. It would have been nice to obtain an actual 1st rounder or to get a pick that could help us sooner, but it is what it is. I think it's reasonably fair value for Weise. The concern here is what the Danault acquisition means for the rest of the team. He's essentially a two-way third-line center, so what does that mean for Eller? For Desharnais? For DLR? My feeling is that he may end up being a similar player to DLR in terms of projected role, so I don't know what this does to the depth chart. Unless someone moves to wing, it doesn't address the logjam at center and lack of resources on the flank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js2 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 So we got a 2nd round pick in 2018 and a 4th line center for Weise who's having a career year, Fleishmann, and we retained 30% of Weise's remaining salary. What exactly did the Habs gain from this trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs_93 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The concern here is what the Danault acquisition means for the rest of the team. He's essentially a two-way third-line center, so what does that mean for Eller? For Desharnais? That's immediately where my mind went, as well. Hard to shake the feeling that this was done so Bergevin had an excuse to make the palpably incorrect move of keeping Desharnais and dealing Eller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 So we got a 2nd round pick in 2018 and a 4th line center for Weise who's having a career year, Fleishmann, and we retained 30% of Weise's remaining salary. What exactly did the Habs gain from this trade? 2018 pick seems like something that will not help our core of Price/Subba/Pacman win a Cup. Habs are not in full re-build mode, so they need immediately helpful assets, not ones that will have an impact in 2022. Danault is less valuable than an actual 1st rounder but he's a piece the Habs can make use of over the net few years and he's a fairly highly-regarded prospect from a good system. There simply has to be the expectation that he can be a good third-liner, NOT someone who can move into the top 6. The Habs will still need to rely on Hudon/Scherbak/McCarron to fill out the scoring roles. The issue remains the logjam in the bottom 6. Eller needs to stay, and if the Habs plan on replacing him with DLR or Danault, it's a giant giant mistake. Eller is possibly the most under-appreciated player on this team. If on the other hand, the Habs play Danault on Eller's wing and say Carr on the other side, I can live with that as a third line. And if it means they now have another token French-Canadian player and are willing to ship Desharnais out, then it's a win. But as I said, the major issue with this trade is now figuring out what Bergevin ends up doing with all the bottom 6 pieces he's put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The concern here is what the Danault acquisition means for the rest of the team. He's essentially a two-way third-line center, so what does that mean for Eller? For Desharnais? For DLR? My feeling is that he may end up being a similar player to DLR in terms of projected role, so I don't know what this does to the depth chart. Unless someone moves to wing, it doesn't address the logjam at center and lack of resources on the flank. My feeling exactly. In a vacuum i think the deal is actually pretty good but what does it mean for the rest of the team. I know that Danault has played wing (LW) so im not certain we would use him as a centre. That said, im not sure he's a whole lot better than a guy like Bournival etc. and we have several guys like that already in the system - but im first to admit i dont know a ton about him other than a couple of games ive seen him play. Imho there are a couple of scenarios as to what this deal means: 1) it was the best we could get for Weise - it doesnt really mean much else (Fleischmann to me was a throw in - like you, i think he had little value) 2) it is a precursor to anothere deal - most likely, based on Danault coming back - involving Eller. If thats the case there are 2 options 2a) We replace Eller with a slightly inferior player but we trade Lars for an offensive winger 2b) We replace Eller with a slightly inferior player & because of our terrible player evaluation we trade him for another bottom 6 Either option is a mistake imho - but at least 2a might help depending upon the 2nd trade. 2b would be a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Weise's agent saying his client would still consider a return to Montreal next year (not that we want to spend what he's asking). Very unlikely the Hawks would be able to fit him under the cap, so he's likely headed towards UFA status and new team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Weise's agent saying his client would still consider a return to Montreal next year (not that we want to spend what he's asking). Very unlikely the Hawks would be able to fit him under the cap, so he's likely headed towards UFA status and new team... Yeah i meant to say that i am very happy for Weise. Its no secret he was a habs fan & it made his dad's day/month/year that he got traded to us. I am sure he would have liked to have stayed with the team but if you're going to get traded anywhere what a great opportunity in Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Yeah i meant to say that i am very happy for Weise. Its no secret he was a habs fan & it made his dad's day/month/year that he got traded to us. I am sure he would have liked to have stayed with the team but if you're going to get traded anywhere what a great opportunity in Chicago. Yup. Best possible organization to go to. Weise and Fleischmann are both really likeable guys, so it works out well that they went to one of the teams that I enjoy cheering for when the Habs are out. Great hockey city, and I can picture the fans there going nuts for Playoff Weise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Happy for Weise getting a Cup shot. As for the return,,,,,,i suppose anything at all is better then letting him potentially walk away for zip. As mentioned,,,,,, he could always resign with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 As an added footnote,,,,the Habs retain 30% salary of BOTH players as reported by TSN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Regis2 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 So MT and SL can stunt their development https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/cp-newsalert-habs-trade-weise-fleischmann-blackhawks-danault-025327812--nhl.html "Phillip Danault is a young and gifted player who will be part of our core group of young forwards for many years to come. I am very pleased to have him join our organization," said Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin in a statement. "As a member of the Blackhawks management group, I was instrumental in the selection of Phillip in the first round of the 2011 NHL Draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habberwacky Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 So MT and SL can stunt their development https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/cp-newsalert-habs-trade-weise-fleischmann-blackhawks-danault-025327812--nhl.html "Phillip Danault is a young and gifted player who will be part of our core group of young forwards for many years to come. I am very pleased to have him join our organization," said Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin in a statement. "As a member of the Blackhawks management group, I was instrumental in the selection of Phillip in the first round of the 2011 NHL Draft No excuses if this turns the wrong way as Bergevin has identified his bias in this deal. It won't be hard for Danault to replace Weise's role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs-24 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 going to miss the dutch gretzky, didnt really see the need to move him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme-1 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I think the days of getting a first-rounder for the Craig Rivets' of our team are long gone. Any team giving up a 1st for Weise would be a mistake IMO. On the surface a (likely late) 2nd + semi-bust former 1st rounder who should make a good depth player isn't terrible return, but the 2nd being 3 drafts from now and the fact Danault plays a position we're already deep at is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-1 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaas Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I don't get it. You should. If the deal turns out to be a bad one, we're blaming you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinot-1 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 You should. If the deal turns out to be a bad one, we're blaming you. Wadda ya mean "if" it turns out to be bad? It "is" a bad deal. Oh,,, wait a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shutoutfan Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I think it's hard to evaluate this deal. You can't just discard that MB was part of the blackhawks organisation before so you dont know what he missed out. It'S good that these rosterspots might now be available for younger guys but what does it help with MT as coach. He might as well get John Scott up to give him these spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caperns Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 I would think this is a pre cursor to seeing Eller, Beuliuu and a Pick going to Emonton for RNH..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest archey Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 The only thing I can see is with Sekac on waivers that MB is making a public declaration that we burn out players at an alarming rate... Or maybe he'd like to be fired....I give that a close second..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTed3 Posted February 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Two added points I'll make: 1. As I've noted, major question about this trade is how MB and MT see Danault slotting into the line-up, particularly with respect to what happens to Eller. It's disappointing to see that the team can continue to stockpile 3rd/4th line grinders and yet haven't found space all year to accommodate the likes of Thomas, Andrighetto, McCarron, Scherbak, Semin, or Hudon to any degree. Also questioning whether Danault's ability to jump into the line-up is enhanced by fact that he's a French-Quebecer and thus gets hyped a bit more for that. 2. I actually think the Habs are no worse off tomorrow than they were today, meaning that sticking Danault and McCarron into the line-up for Weise and Fleischmann doesn't hurt us all that much. There will be more of a learning process for the two youngsters, but if they get the ice time afforded to Weise and Fleisch then they can do just as well with more upside. This is why we should have been playing youngsters for the past couple of weeks already and why we should have seen Beaulieu/Tinordi/Pateryn over Murray/Bouillon a few years ago. No real drop-off in level of play, but significant potential upside for the future. If the player usage is done right, this is a good day for Habs fans. The question is whether the coaches can figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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