2016-17 State of the Habs

[habs_93]

8 hours ago, roy_133 said:

There's a very, very real possibility that we're just not very good and we're going to keep getting outshot and outchanced all year. I actually like the forward group more than I have in a long time but the lack of transition from the D and the system we play is pretty painful. It obviously could all come together but just from what I've seen in terms of HOW we play, yeesh.

Yep. Defence is the fulcrum in today's NHL, and we severely downgraded in that department. It wouldn't be quite as bad if the team treated Petry as the #1, but that's not going to happen. We're going to keep seeing Markov and Weber overplayed, which isn't going to help anything. We've heard this and that about how players like Weber and Shaw "make room for" skilled or "fast" players, which is just fact-free rubbish. Offensively talented players benefit from puck possession and sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Weber and Shaw do not significantly contribute to this, full stop. There's also this meme that Montreal is somehow a "fast" team. I don't see it. Far too much of our offence comes off the rush after being dominated in our own zone, sure. But that's not a function of being a "fast" team, that's dumb luck. All this without even mentioning the system. It's not inspiring.

If the response to adversity is more dumb stuff from Shaw and "tough, gritty" leadership from Weber, it's going to be a long season.

[BigTed3]

15 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I thought Eller was traded to make room for Danault . Specifically remember MB saying something to that effect

Shaw / Eller - no correlation between why they were traded ; one is a C and one is a Winger

Actually if you really want to debate you could say Eller was traded because they had to make room for DD

AG and  TP are the top 2 C's

Then you had Eller, DD, TM, PD - so someone had to go , and looks like Eller was the odd man out , 'cause the other 3 are all Francophones and Eller was a friend of the guy in Nashville

 

 

Eller didn't go to make room for Shaw in the line-up, he was traded to free up cash and cap room to acquire Shaw. You're correct that MB announced they felt Eller could go because they believed Danault was ready to become the 3C but as you stated, in Therrien's eyes, this was simply an opportunity to continue using Desharnais in this role. Absolutely, it would have made more sense to get rid of DD, Emelin, Markov, Byron, or even Plekanec to create that cap space, but the team decided Eller was the guy to go. Maybe it's because he was the only one for whom there was a market, but nevertheless, it wasn't a smart move.

Of note, though, Mitchell is an Anglophone, he just speaks French since he's from Quebec. And Eller went to Washington, not Nashville.

 

 

[habs1952]

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Eller didn't go to make room for Shaw in the line-up, he was traded to free up cash and cap room to acquire Shaw.

 

 

Same thing.

[jennifer_rocket]

I had to turn the game off after period 1 last night. I have no patience for this team anymore. I see they battled back and earned themselves an OT point... but also blew a 3-2 lead with less than 3 minutes to go. I honestly just have zero enthusiasm for the team. I feel excited for Lehkonen... and that's about it.

I cannot wait for the day that MT and MB lose their jobs.

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

Same thing.

Not quite. Just saying we shouldn't be expecting Shaw to play Eller's role.

 

[Regis22]

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Of note, though, Mitchell is an Anglophone, he just speaks French since he's from Quebec. 

Oh . I don't know the difference between the two . He's bilingual so that's a bonus

[Regis22]

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

. And Eller went to Washington, not Nashville.

Yes but it appeared Eller got along with the guy who was traded to Nashville . So Eller had to go to

[Regis22]

about last night

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/about-last-night-380

But there are 80 games to go – and the Canadiens best player should be suiting up soon

[tony5775]

17 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

about last night

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/about-last-night-380

But there are 80 games to go – and the Canadiens best player should be suiting up soon

Agree with that summary for the most part. Every season it takes around 10 games for the good teams to sort things out. No one should be in a panic this early.

Just a thought on Montoya if he could skate and handle the puck, he would be a starter some where.

[Noob616]

16 hours ago, roy_133 said:

There's a very, very real possibility that we're just not very good and we're going to keep getting outshot and outchanced all year. I actually like the forward group more than I have in a long time but the lack of transition from the D and the system we play is pretty painful. It obviously could all come together but just from what I've seen in terms of HOW we play, yeesh.

This is going to happen all year without a systems change. I expect the response will be doubling down (although post-Subban trade it's probably triple or quadrupling down) on this system - throw the puck off the glass and worship the Man Mountain. The Habs' system is basically about being really good at bailing water out a leaking ship and management is just going to look for a bigger, grittier bucket with more leadership instead of patching the holes. 

[habs1952]

4 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Agree with that summary for the most part. Every season it takes around 10 games for the good teams to sort things out. No one should be in a panic this early.

Just a thought on Montoya if he could skate and handle the puck, he would be a starter some where.

Hmmm....we're at 23 years 2 games and we're still sorting things out. We are not a good team.

[Habs=stanleycup]

From article by Wilde:

• I don't feel like the Habs have played that well at all so far. They've seemed off for a lot of time in both games, but look at the standings. You start in the other team's home opener and another team’s first Saturday night game and you get three points, you're in good shape to play more intense hockey and continue to get good results. Good teams win when they're not that on. So here we are. Let's keep watching here to see if this is all they have, because if it is, then that will catch up to them. However if they can bring more energy, then this will be a positive omen that they can win when they're somewhat flat and win even more when they bring it. Three points out of four on the road. The glass is half full-to-three quarters but they better have more to give.

 

 

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/call-of-the-wilde-habs-glass-half-full-in-loss-to-sens-1.3117320

[Regis22]

remember reading this article . It's the writers opinion

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nhl-east/montreal-canadiens/canadiens-lacking-depth-direction/

The defense is filled with many questions and few answers, as even the veterans Emelin and Markov are entering or are already in the declining phases of their respective careers. Subban represented the player that the Canadiens could ice against top opposing offenses and the sparkplug for the Canadiens’ own offense, but now that he is gone there is no one for those roles. Weber can be tried against top offenses, but he is hardly the puck-mover he once was. The reality is the Canadiens have built a defense to block shots and rely on Carey Price heavily, a recipe for disaster

 

Paul Byron, David Desharnais, Torrey Mitchell, Daniel Carr, Phillip Danault, Sven Andrighetto, Brian Flynn, and Mike McCarron will serve as the main candidates for the remaining six forward spots, with Mike Brown and Bobby Farnham serving as potential options if Michel Therrien insists on employing an enforcer — a strong possibility.

Looking at the eight choices for the six spots, there is much to be desired. Rather than finding complementary scoring options or prioritizing youth, Montreal found a smorgasbord of mediocrity and deemed it a bottom six. The choices averaged 14 points in the 2015-16 campaign, with Desharnais leading the pack with 29 points. No player among the crew has notched a 30-point season besides Desharnais, and most of the options do not hold strong offensive potential

[habs_93]

From last night's game courtesy of Natural Stat Trick...

Shea Weber 5-on-5 adjusted Corsi for? 37.14%. Jeff Petry's? 63.45%.

Something to keep an eye on this season.

[kinot-1]

54 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

From last night's game courtesy of Natural Stat Trick...

Shea Weber 5-on-5 adjusted Corsi for? 37.14%. Jeff Petry's? 63.45%.

Something to keep an eye on this season.

Sounds like something for a "stats guy". 

[habs_93]

49 minutes ago, kinot-1 said:

Sounds like something for a "stats guy". 

Well, it's going to be something for everybody when Weber keeps getting played too much.

[Habs=stanleycup]

This week's Hockey Inside Out Show..

 

 

[BigTed3]

Early impressions on the Habs:

- First line is playing well, all averaging a point per game and driving the offence, particularly Gallagher

- Second line is hit and miss. The hit is Radulov, who has been phenomenal, outside of a couple of bad penalties. Lehkonen has put himself in position to succeed, and the goals will come if he's given the chance. Then again, I felt that way about Semin and Sekac too, and neither guy got a sustained opportunity, so hopefully Therrien doesn't screw this one up too. Plekanec is worrisome. He's been pretty unimpressive, despite getting better linemates than he usually gets.

- Third line: also a bit of a mess. DD and Shaw have each had some good moments, but there have also been a lot of invisible shifts, and I'm not sold on the chemistry here. I liked the line with Carr better. Byron has been a very good SH player but only an average ES player. I just don't feel like this line has an identity. It's not a fantastic scoring line, it isn't a line of grinders, it isn't an energy line, it isn't a defensive line that can take tough match-ups, it isn't a line that's physical and imposing... they're a jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none line and I just don't see it holding up over the long run right now.

- 4th line has been very good. Mitchell has been an absolute beast, as he was at the start of last year. Byron was very good in this role, Danault has been solid, Flynn I'm not sure how much he adds to the line-up bit he hasn't hurt us.

- Weber has been a physical presence and a real boon to the powerplay, as expected. His Corsi numbers have been awful, however, constantly a negative player and one of the worst on the team. Statistics show this tends to catch up to a player in the long run. I think he's helped the team and he's really a force on special teams, but he really doesn't skate that much and he tends to allow the shot attempt and then mop up the consequences rather than take the puck away, the way a Subban or Petry does. Weber has also been caught out of position quite a few times where the commentators and media just seem to ignore this, unlike what they did for Subban. He's been good, but he's clearly benefiting from a media narrative that he's a great player because I find he's been inferior to Subban thus far.

- Emelin and Pateryn have pleasantly surprised me this year. Sergachev, as I've discussed before, has seemed out of place.

- Montoya has been excellent thus far, and Carey has been solid in his return.

 

[Serial_Thrilla_27]

11 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Early impressions on the Habs:

- First line is playing well, all averaging a point per game and driving the offence, particularly Gallagher

- Second line is hit and miss. The hit is Radulov, who has been phenomenal, outside of a couple of bad penalties. Lehkonen has put himself in position to succeed, and the goals will come if he's given the chance. Then again, I felt that way about Semin and Sekac too, and neither guy got a sustained opportunity, so hopefully Therrien doesn't screw this one up too. Plekanec is worrisome. He's been pretty unimpressive, despite getting better linemates than he usually gets.

- Third line: also a bit of a mess. DD and Shaw have each had some good moments, but there have also been a lot of invisible shifts, and I'm not sold on the chemistry here. I liked the line with Carr better. Byron has been a very good SH player but only an average ES player. I just don't feel like this line has an identity. It's not a fantastic scoring line, it isn't a line of grinders, it isn't an energy line, it isn't a defensive line that can take tough match-ups, it isn't a line that's physical and imposing... they're a jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none line and I just don't see it holding up over the long run right now.

- 4th line has been very good. Mitchell has been an absolute beast, as he was at the start of last year. Byron was very good in this role, Danault has been solid, Flynn I'm not sure how much he adds to the line-up bit he hasn't hurt us.

- Weber has been a physical presence and a real boon to the powerplay, as expected. His Corsi numbers have been awful, however, constantly a negative player and one of the worst on the team. Statistics show this tends to catch up to a player in the long run. I think he's helped the team and he's really a force on special teams, but he really doesn't skate that much and he tends to allow the shot attempt and then mop up the consequences rather than take the puck away, the way a Subban or Petry does. Weber has also been caught out of position quite a few times where the commentators and media just seem to ignore this, unlike what they did for Subban. He's been good, but he's clearly benefiting from a media narrative that he's a great player because I find he's been inferior to Subban thus far.

- Emelin and Pateryn have pleasantly surprised me this year. Sergachev, as I've discussed before, has seemed out of place.

- Montoya has been excellent thus far, and Carey has been solid in his return.

 

This, in bold.  I don't understand why they swapped out Carr after only 2 games.  MT said it was because he wasn't producing offensively, but he did assist on Shaw's 1st goal.  Ever since the switch was made, this line looks out of sync.

[BigTed3]

4 hours ago, Serial_Thrilla_27 said:

This, in bold.  I don't understand why they swapped out Carr after only 2 games.  MT said it was because he wasn't producing offensively, but he did assist on Shaw's 1st goal.  Ever since the switch was made, this line looks out of sync.

Right. I don't get Therrien judging certain guys' offensive production based on 2-3 games performance and benching them for a month (Sekac, Briere, PAP, Thomas, Hudon, McCarron, Semin, etc. being other guys who have been deemed "not to have produced enough") yet being okay with the likes of Desharnais going on a 30-game slump or Weise or Prust or Byron not putting up goals for long stretches. Currently, Byron has played well but he's not a fantastic even strength player and he's an awful complement to Desharnais. Carr is much better-suited to playing the 3rd line, and if you really want Byron on the 3rd then you need to put McCarron in there in place of DD to make it work.

The real problem I have is with Flynn being in the starting 12 over Carr though. Flynn hasn't produced much in a couple of years, yet he continues to be given free passes while other guys are expected to produce at both ends of the ice. Flynn in my view shouldn't even be on our NHL roster while the likes of Carr, Hudon, McCarron, and so on don't get a shot.

 

 

[Regis22]

http://www.tsn.ca/canadiens-move-to-no-1-in-nhl-power-rankings-1.591361

 

1.    MONTREAL CANADIENS  4-0-1
THIS WEEK: 1 LAST WEEK: 9
GF:  4.00  GA: 1.60  SA CF%: 53.7
PP%: 14.3 PK%: 92.0
The Habs made do early while Carey Price was ill, but they’ve been scoring from the jump. Their big offseason acquisition, D Shea Weber, is tied for the team lead with five points while struggling mightily in terms of possession (43.8 CF%, -3.8 CFRel%).
Key Injuries: None.

[jeff33]

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1136144-ex-teammate-weise-subban-an-easy-scapegoat-for-canadiens

 

little insight from dale

[Regis22]

Well, no way would MB say its MT's fault

MT couldn't lead Pittsburgh ( with Crosby ) to the Cup , in that case he had his buddy MB to cover his butt

 

 

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1136144-ex-teammate-weise-subban-an-easy-scapegoat-for-canadiens

 

little insight from dale

 

We're definitely seeing the truth come out now, with comments from Subban himself, Weise, DSP, Galchenyuk... all suggesting there was no issue among players but a rift between Subban and coach Therrien and/or the organization. Further supports the theory MT and MB tried to run Subban out of town on purpose just because they didn't like him.

[Habberwacky]

Don't think they "tried to". They did let him take his 9 million and go play in a new sandbox. Hope he has a great career, but that;s sports and life so I hope he doesn't mind saving a fortune in taxes. If they had no problems he would still be here. I think it goes without saying he wasn't doing what they wanted for the money he is getting.