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2016-17 State of the Habs


BigTed3

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Yes, firing therrien was as obvious as a hippo hiding behind a twig.

it cost us eller and subban, and like i mentioned above, he should be the next guy out of town.

yes julien has no time to figure it out....but im gonna double down here. theres nothing to figure out. this isnt a very good group of players.

read the article...hes saying things like "i wish i had set lines" "its a rotation right now".  and I'm here saying "you cant make chicken salad out of chicken...mcnuggets. yeah, mcnuggets"

no matter how you slice up this roster, its mediocrity up and down. its no mystery. its not an enigma. we dont have good forwards....so we dont score. its not rocket surgery.

 

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1. If we're going to talk about the timing of when Therrien should have been fired, the right answer is 2-3 years ago. The best answer is that he never should have been hired in the first place, and he only got his job because of language politics. If we had hired a better coach 5 years ago or opted for Babcock or Robinson or Trotz or Gallant when those guys were available, we'd be better off today. I am absolutely fine (and happy) to have Julien here now, but Julien wasn't available before and we've set ourselves back by hanging on to the failing and unimaginative Therrien for too long. I really do believe we might have seen more out of the likes of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Sekac, Thomas, Hudon, McCarron, and so on by now if those young players didn't get continually ripped apart and benched by the likes of Lefebvre and Therrien. They've been terrible coaches for young players with skill IMO.

2. Likewise, as was noted, we might not have seen Subban and Eller traded if it weren't for MT running them out of town.

3. Despite this, the system has improved boatloads since CJ took over. The PK is a million times better, more aggressive and more structured. The PP still needs work but has shown some flashes of better puck movement. Zone exits and entries are better. Lines are still not perfect but they make a bit more sense, and at the very least, we're seeing skill players given more ice, less use of the 4th line, and guys like Emelin held accountable for not playing well instead of it just being ignored.

4. I agree that there are still glaring holes in the offence, particularly if Galchenyuk is left at wing. We're missing two top 6 centers, which is huge. It's not enough for MB to have added King and Martinsen and Ott. Those players don't fix any of the major problems. Short of being able to get a scoring center, I still believe the best move the team could make would be to promote Hudon and stick him in the top 6. Get some speed, get some creativity, get some skill, but most of all get some energy into the top 6 and shake things up a little bit so guys wake up.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

1. . I really do believe we might have seen more out of the likes of Beaulieu, Tinordi, Sekac, Thomas, Hudon, McCarron, and so on by now if those young players didn't get continually ripped apart and benched by the likes of Lefebvre and Therrien. They've been terrible coaches for young players with skill IMO.

I agree I think they are not very good coaches but of the players you mentioned

Tinordi currently playing for the Tuscon Roadrunners

Sekac traded to Anaheim then Chicago the Arizona and now playing for Kazan AK Bars

Thomas traded to Arizona now playing for the Hershey Bears

Maybe those three guys were never going to be NHL players .

Beaulieu and McCarron arel here and maybe what we see of them is what we are going to get

Hudon , I  cannot comment on , never seen him play

 

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I tend to  agree with your thoughts on the players we have traded away or released that have failed to develop. We aren't seeing anyone of good value get overlooked. DSP is the only player that excelled for a while after we moved him. So most of the deals Bergevin has done have worked out. (purposely avoiding the Subban discussion here) Eller was one of our more reliable forwards and now that we appear to be struggling at centre keeping him may seem like a wiser choice, but moving him has created some space for others like McCarron and freed up some cap space going forward. We appear to be in a bit of a tough transition here as some prospects and regulars are not quite where they need to be in their development, while a few other beterans are having below average years. The fact we have managed to stay on top with these issues and a rather average year from Carey is petty amazing. (or may have to do with some other teams being in even worse shpe than us this year)

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2 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I agree I think they are not very good coaches but of the players you mentioned

Tinordi currently playing for the Tuscon Roadrunners

Sekac traded to Anaheim then Chicago the Arizona and now playing for Kazan AK Bars

Thomas traded to Arizona now playing for the Hershey Bears

Maybe those three guys were never going to be NHL players .

Beaulieu and McCarron arel here and maybe what we see of them is what we are going to get

Hudon , I  cannot comment on , never seen him play

 

And you could say that, but we'll never know the right answer because we don't know how those players would have done with better coaching and development. Leblanc, Kristo, Avstin, DLR, Pateryn, etc. are other names I could have added to the list of players who flopped within our organization. The fact is we've done pretty horribly at developing players in our system in the past few years. Are they all bad players or is it that we're not getting enough out of them? Lefebvre constantly played ex-NHLer veterans and goons over his young skill guys. Therrien constantly benched and pressboxed young players for the slightest mistake.

So look at our current line-up. How many guys have we graduated to the NHL from the AHL in the past few years? Not many. Galchenyuk and Lehkonen never played in the AHL. Gallagher played in the AHL briefly but not under Lefebvre or in the MB regime. Guys like Pacioretty, Markov, Plekanec, Price, and so on also graduated well before MB took over and put Lefebvre in place. Beaulieu came from the AHL but is having trouble staying in the line-up. Ditto for McCarron. Otherwise, the Habs have simply failed to develop their high picks and prospects into NHL players. Now I can buy that some of your picks are going to be flops. But near all of them? There's a problem with the way the MB/MT/SL regime has developed and played younger players, and that can't all be blamed on the players themselves.

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22 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

And you could say that, but we'll never know the right answer because we don't know how those players would have done with better coaching and development. Leblanc, Kristo, Avstin, DLR, Pateryn, etc. are other names I could have added to the list of players who flopped within our organization.

They seemed to have flopped elsewhere too , though .

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23 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 There's a problem with the way the MB/MT/SL regime has developed and played younger players, and that can't all be blamed on the players themselves.

Yea , Id agree. Not sure what qualifications SL has for being a coach . His record has been bad .

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Update: The Atlantic division playoff race - remaining schedules.

Habs:  Dallas (H) Florida (H) Tampa (A) Florida (A) Buffalo (A) Tampa (H) Detroit (A) 

Ottawa:  Philly (A) Minny (A) Jets (A) Detroit (A) Detroit (H) Boston (A) NYR (H) NYI (A)

Bruins:  Nashville (H) Dallas (H) Florida (H) Hawks (A) Tampa (H) Ottawa (H) Caps (H)

Leafs:  Florida (H) Nashville (A) Detroit (A) Buffalo (A) Caps (H) Tampa (H) Pens (H) CBJ (H)

Habs have 0 games left vs a current playoff team. Sens 3, Bruins 4, Leafs 4

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

They seemed to have flopped elsewhere too , though .

Sure, but maybe that's because they weren't brought along correctly. Poor development won't suddenly be reversed via trade. And shattered confidence doesn't fix itself easily either. That can still be blamed on our management here.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Sure, but maybe that's because they weren't brought along correctly. Poor development won't suddenly be reversed via trade. And shattered confidence doesn't fix itself easily either. That can still be blamed on our management here.

I think that's the point that was being overlooked. If you're being taught the wrong things, it's going to take time and effort to correct that education, but teams aren't going to give a player 2 more years of development time when they have younger prospects with less bad habits they could be working on. You can't make up for a lack of experience either. A 28 year old that has being taking regular shifts for 4 years, is always going to have less experience than a 28 year old that has been taking regular shifts since he was 20.

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Management went to great lengths to point out the farm team would play the same system as the main team, to give call ups an easier transition. Is that still in effect now that CJ has switched things around? Have they made the adjustments down there? If not,,,, I assume CJ will be sitting down with these guys after the season and hashing out the direction he wants to see from his sub coaching staff. Maybe he'll also have a little input at whom he believes is best suited to lead with those changes? We can only hope.

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It all starts with firing Bergevin at the end of the season. If Molson doesn't man up and do it ... this franchise will be doomed to mediocrity just as we were doomed to bad coaching under Therrien. Bergevin was recruited from the Chicago system because he could speak French and was part of a winning organization. We now know that Tallon built that organization with little help from barganbin ..... Its like trading for the back up quarterback from a Superbowl winner who never got to play. He may know how to hold a clipboard but he had little to do with winning the trophy .....  

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27 minutes ago, eldag said:

It all starts with firing Bergevin at the end of the season. If Molson doesn't man up and do it ... this franchise will be doomed to mediocrity just as we were doomed to bad coaching under Therrien. Bergevin was recruited from the Chicago system because he could speak French and was part of a winning organization. We now know that Tallon built that organization with little help from barganbin ..... Its like trading for the back up quarterback from a Superbowl winner who never got to play. He may know how to hold a clipboard but he had little to do with winning the trophy .....  

:4224:

Winning with our defensemen alone just doesn't cut it IMO, although I very much appreciate the win from Markov & Weber. Scoring from our forwards remains in a drought and is still a glaring issue which must be addressed.

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Update: The Atlantic division playoff race - remaining schedules.

Habs:  Florida (H) Tampa (A) Florida (A) Buffalo (A) Tampa (H) Detroit (A) 

Ottawa:  Minny (A) Jets (A) Detroit (A) Detroit (H) Boston (A) NYR (H) NYI (A)

Bruins: Dallas (H) Florida (H) Hawks (A) Tampa (H) Ottawa (H) Caps (H)

Leafs: Nashville (A) Detroit (A) Buffalo (A) Caps (H) Tampa (H) Pens (H) CBJ (H)

Habs have 0 games left vs a current playoff team. Sens 3, Bruins 3Leafs 4

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15 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Update: The Atlantic division playoff race - remaining schedules.

Habs:  Florida (H) Tampa (A) Florida (A) Buffalo (A) Tampa (H) Detroit (A) 

Ottawa:  Minny (A) Jets (A) Detroit (A) Detroit (H) Boston (A) NYR (H) NYI (A)

Bruins: Dallas (H) Florida (H) Hawks (A) Tampa (H) Ottawa (H) Caps (H)

Leafs: Nashville (A) Detroit (A) Buffalo (A) Caps (H) Tampa (H) Pens (H) CBJ (H)

Habs have 0 games left vs a current playoff team. Sens 3, Bruins 3Leafs 4

Oh, noooo.....all trap games for the remainder of the season......this is terrible.  Habs always play down to their lowly opponents' level.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I blame kinot. 

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The Canadiens recalled goalie Charlie Lindgren from the St. John's IceCaps on Wednesday, and sent goalie Zachary Fucale to their American Hockey League affiliate.

In 45 games with St. John's in 2016-17, Lindgren posted a record of 22-17-1 with a 2.62 goals-against average and a save percentage of .913.

Price will start Thursday vs Florida.

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On 3/25/2017 at 10:23 AM, Habs=stanleycup said:

In short, all is not right in Habs Nation. So why is our team so inconsistent? Well in fact, they’ve been inconsistent all year. This is, as is so often the case with recent Canadiens squads, a Jekyll and Hyde team. They famously started the season with 13 straight wins, but they basically morphed into a .500 team until general manager Marc Bergevin finally stepped in on Valentine’s Day and fired his old buddy Michel Therrien and replaced him with Claude Julien.

After the game Thursday, as I watched Julien give his post-match press conference, I began to wonder if the real problem wasn’t the timing of the coaching change. I think Bergevin waited too long to dump his foxhole pal and replace him with a proper coach, and we’re seeing the results of that ill-advised procrastination.

Bergevin fired Therrien after 58 games, which left Julien with only 24 games to figure out what to do with this split-personality team. I’m beginning to think Julien, a much better coach than Mike T, simply isn’t going to have enough time to figure out the riddle wrapped in an enigma that is the 2016-17 Canadiens.

But the first line continued to struggle. Alexander Radulov and Phillip Danault have been under-performing, but even more worrisome is Patch, who is in the midst of his worst slump of the season. The captain has only scored two goals in his last eight games and both were in the game against the Oilers, including an empty-netter. He has no points in his last five games. So if you’re wondering why the team can’t score, look no further than the slumping Pacioretty and Radulov.

The second line — or is it the third? — is just as troubled. Tomas (Six Million Dollar Man) Plekanec is pretty well an outright Scott Gomez-like disaster at this point. He has only eight goals this season and looks likely to have his worst year since his rookie season. Even worse, he’s nowhere near the ace defensive specialist he once was.

So Julien has lots to figure out. Heck, I haven’t even got to the Habs blue line yet! You have to feel for Julien. He was thrown into a very tough situation and it may just be that he won’t have the time to sort it all out before they hit the post-season.

The brutal reality is that Bergevin should’ve cut Therrien loose last June, as me and so many others suggested. He lost the room last season and any other team would’ve fired the coach. Instead Bergevin stubbornly stuck with him … until he lost the room, and his star goalie, once again this season.

Not firing him was a big mistake on the part of the GM. And if this team is not ready for the playoffs, it may prove to be an error that will cost Bergevin dearly.

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/what-the-puck-did-habs-gm-bergevin-wait-too-long-to-swap-coaches

Let's not forget this was a team who finished in last place last season. Just to get to where they are now is great. But they still go as far as Price takes them.

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3 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

If you haven't noticed , the Habs arent exactly an elite team. They play to their own level which isn't very high

Well, they are a division leader.  There's only four of those out of 30 teams.  And it's not like they just snuck in there the last couple of days, they've led the Atlantic Division pretty much the entire season.  While most people would probably not put the Habs in the same category as, say, the Chicago Blackhawks, a team with Carey Price in goal is always a threat.  

I was simply pointing out a disturbing trend that we've seen for many years, which is when they play an uninspired game against a non-playoff team, in contrast to when they truly rise to the occasion and play a great game against a tough opponent.  Then again, we haven't had a championship-caliber coach in quite some time.  

For some reason, I think the postseason this year is going to be crazy good.  I just wish they wouldn't play so many stinkers along the way.  

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Update: The Atlantic division playoff race - remaining schedules.

Habs: Tampa (A) Florida (A) Buffalo (A) Tampa (H) Detroit (A) 

Ottawa: Jets (A) Detroit (A) Detroit (H) Boston (A) NYR (H) NYI (A)

Bruins: Florida (H) Hawks (A) Tampa (H) Ottawa (H) Caps (H)

Leafs: Detroit (A) Buffalo (A) Caps (H) Tampa (H) Pens (H) CBJ (H)

Habs have 0 games left vs a current playoff team. Sens 2, Bruins 3Leafs 3

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9 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Update: The Atlantic division playoff race - remaining schedules.

Habs: Tampa (A) Florida (A) Buffalo (A) Tampa (H) Detroit (A) 

Ottawa: Jets (A) Detroit (A) Detroit (H) Boston (A) NYR (H) NYI (A)

Bruins: Florida (H) Hawks (A) Tampa (H) Ottawa (H) Caps (H)

Leafs: Detroit (A) Buffalo (A) Caps (H) Tampa (H) Pens (H) CBJ (H)

Habs have 0 games left vs a current playoff team. Sens 2, Bruins 3Leafs 3

But two of those are against Tampa who is hot and battling for a playoff spot. Where Hawks , NYR, Pens , CBJ are all clinched and may rest players including #1 goalies like we probably will. A team desperate to get in I believe is a lot more dangerous.

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