2016-17 Habs Lines

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

I'd be all for sitting out Desharnais (permanently) if it were probable that Therrien would actually make that decision... we'll see come game-time if he sits even one game. I like what Ted has suggested... Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Radulov... seems logical. But if you go by performance perhaps Pacioretty and Shaw should be on the 4th line with Mitchell and only get 4th line minutes until they show they want to give more effort and smarter play.

If Ghetto does get to play second line I'm okay with that too.

 

[Habs=stanleycup]

1 hour ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I'd be all for sitting out Desharnais (permanently) if it were probable that Therrien would actually make that decision... we'll see come game-time if he sits even one game. I like what Ted has suggested... Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Radulov... seems logical. But if you go by performance perhaps Pacioretty and Shaw should be on the 4th line with Mitchell and only get 4th line minutes until they show they want to give more effort and smarter play.

If Ghetto does get to play second line I'm okay with that too.

 

DD needs to go. Pacioretty & Plekanec demoted to the 3rd or 4th line to wake them up, otherwise trade em all.

[habs1952]

13 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I'd be all for sitting out Desharnais (permanently) if it were probable that Therrien would actually make that decision... we'll see come game-time if he sits even one game. I like what Ted has suggested... Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Radulov... seems logical. But if you go by performance perhaps Pacioretty and Shaw should be on the 4th line with Mitchell and only get 4th line minutes until they show they want to give more effort and smarter play.

If Ghetto does get to play second line I'm okay with that too.

 

What did Mitchell ever do to you to deserve such treatment?

[Serial_Thrilla_27]

16 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

DD needs to go. Pacioretty & Plekanec demoted to the 3rd or 4th line to wake them up, otherwise trade em all.

If you can move any of them, I'm not entirely opposed.  Then again I'm not entirely opposed to rebuilding completely.  I've considered trading Price at the entry draft so many times in my armchair GM brain ;).  Price is a UFA in 2018.  He's already had a considerable injury history.  Trading him at the 2017 entry draft saves you from signing him to 8 mil per for 8 years.  That could be another teams decision.  You could ship him to Arizona on draft day for their 1st.  It's a move that potentially gets you another young gun that can potentially help  in the immediate future.

[Habs=stanleycup]

42 minutes ago, Serial_Thrilla_27 said:

If you can move any of them, I'm not entirely opposed.  Then again I'm not entirely opposed to rebuilding completely.  I've considered trading Price at the entry draft so many times in my armchair GM brain ;).  Price is a UFA in 2018.  He's already had a considerable injury history.  Trading him at the 2017 entry draft saves you from signing him to 8 mil per for 8 years.  That could be another teams decision.  You could ship him to Arizona on draft day for their 1st.  It's a move that potentially gets you another young gun that can potentially help  in the immediate future.

I'm not opposed to rebuilding either, but with our current coach I wonder how effective that would be in the end.

Firing MT as the alternate option in order to see if our current squad can perform better without him would be a far less risky experiment IMO.

Of course with a new coach, it may reveal where the true deadwood of this team really is.

[kinot-1]

27 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

I'm not opposed to rebuilding either, but with our current coach I wonder how effective that would be in the end.

Firing MT as the alternate option in order to see if our current squad can perform better without him would be a far less risky experiment IMO.

Of course with a new coach, it may reveal where the true deadwood of this team really is.

But with a new coach, he could possibly get the most out of each player. 

[Habs=stanleycup]

17 minutes ago, kinot-1 said:

But with a new coach, he could possibly get the most out of each player. 

Yup. Good point Kinot.

[Serial_Thrilla_27]

16 hours ago, kinot-1 said:

But with a new coach, he could possibly get the most out of each player. 

The potential could be real for a Desharnais/Pacioretty move.  One option that could be available is to Columbus.  Perhaps moving Patch and DD to CBJ for Hartnell and Johnson.  Hartnell plays more of the style that Terrien and Bergevin seem to be on the hunt for.  Plus, Hartnell still has good hands.  You could also look at swapping Desharnais to T-O Milan Michalik.  Bad contract for bad contract.  If you went the CBJ way though, you could potentially end with a line up like:

 

Lehkonen/Byron, Galchenyuk, Radulov

Hartnell, Plekanec, Gallagher

Carr/Andrighetto, Danault, Shaw

Byron/Carr, Mitchell, Flynn

Emelin, Weber

Johnson, Petry

Beaulieau, Markov/Pateryn

 

Price 

Montoya

 

[kinot-1]

22 minutes ago, Serial_Thrilla_27 said:

The potential could be real for a Desharnais/Pacioretty move.  One option that could be available is to Columbus.  Perhaps moving Patch and DD to CBJ for Hartnell and Johnson.  Hartnell plays more of the style that Terrien and Bergevin seem to be on the hunt for.  Plus, Hartnell still has good hands.  You could also look at swapping Desharnais to T-O Milan Michalik.  Bad contract for bad contract.  If you went the CBJ way though, you could potentially end with a line up like:

 

IMO, Hartnell is on the wrong side of 30 (34), and will be decling soon. As well he has a NMC. He does have a good work ethic tho.
Johnson is almost 30. His stats aren't too impressive. So, I would think that that trade might not be too good, IMO.
The T.O. deal is an even-up deal that I don't feel that Lamorello would go for.

[HabsRuleForever]

John Lu ‏@JohnLuTSNMtl  43m43 minutes ago

#Habs lines vs #RedWings Byron - Galchenyuk - Radulov Andrighetto - Plekanec - Gallagher Pacioretty - Danault - Shaw Carr - Mitchell - Flynn

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

The 4th line that was doing so well early on is not that good anymore... playing DD there makes it even worse

[BigTed3]

5 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

The 4th line that was doing so well early on is not that good anymore... playing DD there makes it even worse

The 4th line was definitely better with any of Byron, Mitchell, Danault, and Carr there. Even Flynn was better there than DD and Ghetto. The problem is that those last two players are offensive players. They're not going to do a whole lot playing 4th line minutes without much support, and they're frankly both so unidimensional that they bring absolutely nothing else to the table unless they're being paired with the likes of Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/Gallagher or someone else to carry the offensive load.

[ChiLla]

10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The 4th line was definitely better with any of Byron, Mitchell, Danault, and Carr there. Even Flynn was better there than DD and Ghetto. The problem is that those last two players are offensive players. They're not going to do a whole lot playing 4th line minutes without much support, and they're frankly both so unidimensional that they bring absolutely nothing else to the table unless they're being paired with the likes of Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/Gallagher or someone else to carry the offensive load.

Absolutely, we need the fourth line to play like a fourth line. DD and Ghetto have no value there.

[PuckPundit]

The problem with MT's line juggling is he can NEVER improve one line without worsening another.  If Radu-Chucky shines, Gallagher suffers.  If Danault is moved to centre 3rd line, the 4th line suffers.  If Shaw is moved to centre 2nd line, everyone suffers .  

[Habs_Hockey_Nutz]

7 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

The problem with MT's line juggling is he can NEVER improve one line without worsening another.  If Radu-Chucky shines, Gallagher suffers.  If Danault is moved to centre 3rd line, the 4th line suffers.  If Shaw is moved to centre 2nd line, everyone suffers .  

There aren't enough real quality players to go around for each position... But it may also indicate that the system designed by the coaching staff is not that great when certain parts are interchanged and responsibility for each player is affected. After Galchenyuk, at this point I think the Habs do not really have the right top-six center.

Ideally Plekanec, if used as a shutdown center, should be slotted in as the third line center between the two best defensive forwards (Who?). Similarly the fourth line centered by Mitchell should include the next best defensive forwards (who?) to aid in a shutdown role. And from that point is where another top six center remains a need going forward (DD is not that player).

Best offensive forwards should be Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Gallagher, (who?), (who?)

 

[maas_art]

3 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

There aren't enough real quality players to go around for each position... But it may also indicate that the system designed by the coaching staff is not that great when certain parts are interchanged and responsibility for each player is affected. After Galchenyuk, at this point I think the Habs do not really have the right top-six center.

Ideally Plekanec, if used as a shutdown center, should be slotted in as the third line center between the two best defensive forwards (Who?). Similarly the fourth line centered by Mitchell should include the next best defensive forwards (who?) to aid in a shutdown role. And from that point is where another top six center remains a need going forward (DD is not that player).

Best offensive forwards should be Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov, Gallagher, (who?), (who?)

I agree.  I think you can make the arguement we have 3 top line players. We have a plethora of bottom 6 players but aside from Gallagher, we have really no one who is a bone fide 2nd liner. 

To me, our 'best players for each position" are:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov
_________ - __________ - Gallagher
Carr - Plekanec - Shaw
Byron - Danault - Mitchell  

You can mix and match our bottom 6 and make 2 pretty good lines either way (Danault could be on the 3rd or Shaw could be on the 4th etc) Plekanec is ill suited at 2nd line and DD is ill suited really anywhere. What we dont have is anyone who can jump up to that 2nd line and make us really competitive.  I think a guy like Andrighetto might be able to take that 2nd line wing spot but we need an effective centre next to Gallagher first. 

In our system McCarron is the only guy who even has a chance.  Not sure if he's ready yet.  Then there's a trade. Who is giving up a quality 2nd liner?

I believe we have 3 options:

1) Promote from within (not sure we can).
2) Try to pull off a miracle trade (DD + a defensman for some 'diamond in the rough') seems unlikely
3) trade for a pending UFA centre.  This is our most likely scenario.  Its way to early to know who is going to be available but, for example, the Sharks are looking like they could go either way right now. If they find themselves outside a playoff spot maybe they trade Joe Thornton to us so he can have one last shot at a cup. Likewise Marleau. There's not much out there otherwise - maybe Hanzell but im not sure if he's an upgrade. 

 

[Habs=stanleycup]

3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I agree.  I think you can make the arguement we have 3 top line players. We have a plethora of bottom 6 players but aside from Gallagher, we have really no one who is a bone fide 2nd liner. 

To me, our 'best players for each position" are:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov
_________ - __________ - Gallagher
Carr - Plekanec - Shaw
Byron - Danault - Mitchell  

You can mix and match our bottom 6 and make 2 pretty good lines either way (Danault could be on the 3rd or Shaw could be on the 4th etc) Plekanec is ill suited at 2nd line and DD is ill suited really anywhere. What we dont have is anyone who can jump up to that 2nd line and make us really competitive.  I think a guy like Andrighetto might be able to take that 2nd line wing spot but we need an effective centre next to Gallagher first. 

In our system McCarron is the only guy who even has a chance.  Not sure if he's ready yet.  Then there's a trade. Who is giving up a quality 2nd liner?

I believe we have 3 options:

1) Promote from within (not sure we can).
2) Try to pull off a miracle trade (DD + a defensman for some 'diamond in the rough') seems unlikely
3) trade for a pending UFA centre.  This is our most likely scenario.  Its way to early to know who is going to be available but, for example, the Sharks are looking like they could go either way right now. If they find themselves outside a playoff spot maybe they trade Joe Thornton to us so he can have one last shot at a cup. Likewise Marleau. There's not much out there otherwise - maybe Hanzell but im not sure if he's an upgrade. 

 

Coach T will not allow MB to trade away his most precious player IMO. 

[roy_133]

Healthy I'd probably go with:

Pacioretty Plekanec Gallagher

Lehkonen Galchenyuk Radulov

as my top 6. I know there's probably not a lot of love for a Pacio Pleks Gallagher line and rightly so, all have played either a bit or well below where they should be but they're all doing a decent job of generating shots and maybe getting them all together on a line will get them going. Either way we're screwed unless all 3 of them are productive. If that line gets going it would be a good 2-way line that could handle tougher minutes and leave a lot of the offensive zone situations to the Galchenyuk line.

[maas_art]

2 hours ago, roy_133 said:

Healthy I'd probably go with:

Pacioretty Plekanec Gallagher

Lehkonen Galchenyuk Radulov

as my top 6. I know there's probably not a lot of love for a Pacio Pleks Gallagher line and rightly so, all have played either a bit or well below where they should be but they're all doing a decent job of generating shots and maybe getting them all together on a line will get them going. Either way we're screwed unless all 3 of them are productive. If that line gets going it would be a good 2-way line that could handle tougher minutes and leave a lot of the offensive zone situations to the Galchenyuk line.

Failing a trade yes, this is probably our best bet.  With the development of Danault this year i think we might be able to get away with  a bottom six of: 

Carr - Danault - Shaw
Byron - Mitchell - Flynn

 

[BigTed3]

This would be much easier if we still had Eller in place of Shaw or Desharnais.

[Habs=stanleycup]

26 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

This would be much easier if we still had Eller in place of Shaw or Desharnais.

I think we can work around Shaw, but coach T's refusal to replace DD is what hurts us IMO.

[CaptWelly]

6 hours ago, roy_133 said:

Healthy I'd probably go with:

Pacioretty Plekanec Gallagher

Lehkonen Galchenyuk Radulov

as my top 6. I know there's probably not a lot of love for a Pacio Pleks Gallagher line and rightly so, all have played either a bit or well below where they should be but they're all doing a decent job of generating shots and maybe getting them all together on a line will get them going. Either way we're screwed unless all 3 of them are productive. If that line gets going it would be a good 2-way line that could handle tougher minutes and leave a lot of the offensive zone situations to the Galchenyuk line.

I like that top six and they have worked together well in the past. I would say to actually give it a few games 5 at least though.

[jeff33]

12 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I like that top six and they have worked together well in the past. I would say to actually give it a few games 5 at least though.

and thats exactly the problem with therrien, he will stumble onto sensible lines, and then at the first sign of trouble, byron is replacing lehkonen and desharnais is replacing plekanec.

DD had a nice sit down, then to the 4th, then to the 2nd. scored a goal....and now its over hes going to be back in our top 6, at least based on ice time.  and thats how this team goes. we don't have the horses to begin with, and theres no coherency to what we do with the ones we have

[H_T_L]

Lines and D pairings at practice today:

Byron - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Pacioretty - Danault - Shaw
Desharnais - Plekanec - Terry
Carr - Mitchell - Andrighetto

Emelin - Weber
Markov - Petry
Beaulieu - Pateryn

[BigTed3]

5 hours ago, jeff33 said:

and thats exactly the problem with therrien, he will stumble onto sensible lines, and then at the first sign of trouble, byron is replacing lehkonen and desharnais is replacing plekanec.

DD had a nice sit down, then to the 4th, then to the 2nd. scored a goal....and now its over hes going to be back in our top 6, at least based on ice time.  and thats how this team goes. we don't have the horses to begin with, and theres no coherency to what we do with the ones we have

That's because Therrien as a coach doesn't have any adjustments to make other than juggling lines. He doesn't really adjust his system or style of play. He simply thinks that changing lines will motivate guys to play harder, and he's willing to take credit for the times it works and write it off as "the guys didn't compete tonight" if it doesn't. What we end up seeing is a line working well for 10 games, then they have 1 bad game and the whole thing is dismantled.