Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

2016-17 Habs Lines


BigTed3

Recommended Posts

Except the thing is that Galchenyuk has already arrived. He scored 30 goals last season, finishing 19th overall in the league and I believe he was something like top 3 in the league for goals once he was moved to center. This season, I think he was 5th in league scoring at the time he went down with injury. This is an elite-scoring forward.

So what happened? Well he struggled to play at a top-tier level coming back from injury, although he still out-produced many other Habs. But then if that's the excuse, Gallagher also struggled coming back from injury and didn't get demoted. Galchenyuk has had his cold stretches too, but none as long as the team-wide cold stretch we saw in which players like Shaw, Plekanec, Byron, Danault, Lehkonen, and Gallagher put up 0-1 goals over a long period. And we can talk about whether he was clutch or not, but then can we really say he wasn't clutch when he set a franchise record (and tied the NHL record) for most OT goals in a season?

So I'm equally baffled by why Galchenyuk is getting the treatment he is. Is it Bergevin who's bad-mouthing Galchenyuk to Julien? Or does Julien really have the same opinion of Galchenyuk that Therrien had? I have much more faith in Julien's hockey-sense than Michel's, so this decision is confusing, given what we can see as a common fan. I just don't see how Dwight King even deserves to be in the starting 12, never mind playing ahead of Galchenyuk. I don't see how Plekanec and Danault and Shaw are better scoring centers. i just don't see why we're even having to talk about this, and given MB's long list of trade mistakes dealing in "character assets" I simply have no faith in MB to resolve this situation in a positive manner for the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Except the thing is that Galchenyuk has already arrived. He scored 30 goals last season, finishing 19th overall in the league and I believe he was something like top 3 in the league for goals once he was moved to center. This season, I think he was 5th in league scoring at the time he went down with injury. This is an elite-scoring forward.

So what happened? Well he struggled to play at a top-tier level coming back from injury, although he still out-produced many other Habs. But then if that's the excuse, Gallagher also struggled coming back from injury and didn't get demoted. Galchenyuk has had his cold stretches too, but none as long as the team-wide cold stretch we saw in which players like Shaw, Plekanec, Byron, Danault, Lehkonen, and Gallagher put up 0-1 goals over a long period. And we can talk about whether he was clutch or not, but then can we really say he wasn't clutch when he set a franchise record (and tied the NHL record) for most OT goals in a season?

So I'm equally baffled by why Galchenyuk is getting the treatment he is. Is it Bergevin who's bad-mouthing Galchenyuk to Julien? Or does Julien really have the same opinion of Galchenyuk that Therrien had? I have much more faith in Julien's hockey-sense than Michel's, so this decision is confusing, given what we can see as a common fan. I just don't see how Dwight King even deserves to be in the starting 12, never mind playing ahead of Galchenyuk. I don't see how Plekanec and Danault and Shaw are better scoring centers. i just don't see why we're even having to talk about this, and given MB's long list of trade mistakes dealing in "character assets" I simply have no faith in MB to resolve this situation in a positive manner for the team.

Well, we can always hope for the best.  Maybe Julien is willing to finish the season out with Galchenyuk at wing rather than have him at center for any number of reasons (whether we agree with them or not).  Maybe he just sees more value in trying to make our fourth line a scoring line.  I don't know.  

Then, there's always the possibility of the worst.  Maybe Julien does see Alex as a fourth-liner, ready to be traded for some 39-year old forward with a zillion dollar contract.  This, though, would be hard to fathom, considering Julien's experience with other skill players like Patrice Bergeron (though Boston did trade Tyler Seguin, but you have to wonder how much of that was Julien's doing).  As long as there's at least one element of the foxhole management still around and running the show in Montreal, there's always the possibility of another Subban-caliber move.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What Julien should do:

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov

Byron-Plekanec-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Shaw

Martinsen-Mitchell-McCarron

 

I just don't see a role/need for King. I'll take Martinsen over Ott, although I think that's a bit of a toss-up, and frankly, I'd rather have Carr or Hudon over both those players anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see why King is in as he has played a defined role in LA for a long time and is good at what he does. He seems to be more involved as of late and I think he is more reliable than McCarron. I would not put Galchenyuk back at centre for these playoffs. Lehkonen continues to fit in nicely and it would be nice to see him and Shaw continue to have success. Seeing Mitchell out is a little disturbing to me but Julien may be expecting a tough start to the series and may want to send a message. I see Mitchell and Ott sharing those duties as the series go on and this depth may help us as we get into later rounds of the playoffs. Julien does seem similar to Therrien in that the veterans are carrying the load. I think playing Davidson is the better move over Nesterov at this point if Emelin cannot go. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

What Julien should do:

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov

Byron-Plekanec-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Shaw

Martinsen-Mitchell-McCarron

 

I just don't see a role/need for King. I'll take Martinsen over Ott, although I think that's a bit of a toss-up, and frankly, I'd rather have Carr or Hudon over both those players anyways.

I think Julien clearly seems something in King.  Im not sure i do but im willing to give him the benefit.  What i wonder is:  If Julien is trying to build a strong third line out of King - Shaw - Lehkonen then *maybe* he feels like Galchenyuk can bounce back into that top 6 if he breaks his slump.

I just cannot fathom that Julien truly thinks the best place for our most talented forward is anywhere other than the top 2 lines. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, maas_art said:

I think Julien clearly seems something in King.  Im not sure i do but im willing to give him the benefit.  What i wonder is:  If Julien is trying to build a strong third line out of King - Shaw - Lehkonen then *maybe* he feels like Galchenyuk can bounce back into that top 6 if he breaks his slump.

I just cannot fathom that Julien truly thinks the best place for our most talented forward is anywhere other than the top 2 lines. 

I get right now that the top two lines are working... we finally have a successful Pacioretty line AND a successful Plekanec-Gallagher combo. So I get that short-term, he doesn't want to break that up. No matter what he thinks he sees in King, there's no excuse for playing him over Galchenyuk. None. You don't see the Bruins putting Pastrnak on the 4th line or the Oilers putting Draisaitl on the 4th line or the Preds burying Forsberg there on the hunch that a 4th-5th line player with poor skating skills might bust out of a 20-game slump. It's ridiculous and it's not based on fact... there is a 0% chance that King is a more useful player than Galchenyuk, so this decision has got to be based on something other than what we're seeing on the ice, and it's decisions like these that got us into trouble with Subban and Eller and why we lost out on them in trades.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

CJ has tried just about everything to get Chuck moving in the right direction. Chuck has been on every line both at center and wing. This is about the last option. 

Agreed.

I also think some of us overrate some of our players.

Personally I feel that Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Plecanek, Gallagher, Radulov, Beaulieu, and Emelin have all under-performed this regular season. Some legitimately due to illness and, or injuries, and the others seem simply to show lack of effort or being hot & cold or moody.

If CJ can pull a rabbit out of a hat this post-season and win us the Cup with this team and in the way he combines the lineups, then all the power to him, and for us as fans. I am a Montreal Canadiens fan number one, and although I am disappointed with the product on ice and certain players`performances, it is the team that comes first for me.

Bottom line though, winning the Stanley Cup is that matters most, and I am confident that we have the right coach to get us there no matter what line combinations he uses to achieve the result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Except the thing is that Galchenyuk has already arrived. He scored 30 goals last season, finishing 19th overall in the league and I believe he was something like top 3 in the league for goals once he was moved to center. This season, I think he was 5th in league scoring at the time he went down with injury. This is an elite-scoring forward.

So what happened? Well he struggled to play at a top-tier level coming back from injury, although he still out-produced many other Habs. But then if that's the excuse, Gallagher also struggled coming back from injury and didn't get demoted. Galchenyuk has had his cold stretches too, but none as long as the team-wide cold stretch we saw in which players like Shaw, Plekanec, Byron, Danault, Lehkonen, and Gallagher put up 0-1 goals over a long period. And we can talk about whether he was clutch or not, but then can we really say he wasn't clutch when he set a franchise record (and tied the NHL record) for most OT goals in a season?

So I'm equally baffled by why Galchenyuk is getting the treatment he is. Is it Bergevin who's bad-mouthing Galchenyuk to Julien? Or does Julien really have the same opinion of Galchenyuk that Therrien had? I have much more faith in Julien's hockey-sense than Michel's, so this decision is confusing, given what we can see as a common fan. I just don't see how Dwight King even deserves to be in the starting 12, never mind playing ahead of Galchenyuk. I don't see how Plekanec and Danault and Shaw are better scoring centers. i just don't see why we're even having to talk about this, and given MB's long list of trade mistakes dealing in "character assets" I simply have no faith in MB to resolve this situation in a positive manner for the team.

I agree about the three maybe not being better scoring centers. This move from CJ doesn't surprise me at all. He was very much the same in Boston. He likes defensively sound 200' as they call it centers. He played a very skilled Seguin on the Wing. Yes he had Bergereon but were his other 3 centers better than Seguin? CJ was the main reason Kessel was traded because he didn't like his defensive game and Kessel was scoring 30+ goals a year. They got lucky with the trade due to Toronto's draft position.  I disagree with the forth line. I would like to see him with Shaw and Lekohnen. It's the playoffs let Shaw have the pressure of being a center and let him play wing and free up some space. He should definetly get PP time also. I really think at this point if he wants to be moved up he has to skate hard every shift both directions and make his coach change his mind. It's actually up to Alex at this point to change his own future. CJ is a coach who also likes to roll 4 lines. So if he gets him going on the 3rd or even 4th than we have a team that's now harder to match up or play against. This could be a defining moment for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Agreed.

I also think some of us overrate some of our players.

Personally I feel that Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Plecanek, Gallagher, Radulov, Beaulieu, and Emelin have all under-performed this regular season. Some legitimately due to illness and, or injuries, and the others seem simply to show lack of effort or being hot & cold or moody.

If CJ can pull a rabbit out of a hat this post-season and win us the Cup with this team and in the way he combines the lineups, then all the power to him, and for us as fans. I am a Montreal Canadiens fan number one, and although I am disappointed with the product on ice and certain players`performances, it is the team that comes first for me.

Bottom line though, winning the Stanley Cup is that matters most, and I am confident that we have the right coach to get us there no matter what line combinations he uses to achieve the result.

Not sure if I would say those players under-performed:

- Pacioretty put up a lofty goal total and had maybe his best year as a Hab

- Galchenyuk, as I posted elsewhere, actually had a better point per ice time production than he has in the past three seasons. He was a top 5 scorer prior to going down to injury. The major problem was that he didn't get first-line ice time, compounded by the fact that it took him a bit of time to get going post-injury. But his production per ice time was better than everyone else on the team.

- Hard to say Radulov under-performed. He maybe wasn't able to maintain his energy for a full 82 games, but he had a great season.

- Beaulieu struggled to start the year but came on strong in the second half. Emelin was the opposite. I don't think either guy really gave us anything more or less than was expected of them.

- The only two I'll give you were Plekanec, who drastically disappointed, and Gallagher, who failed to meet expectations albeit largely related to his injury as well. But on the other hand, you had guys like Danault and Byron and Lehkonen who far surpassed expectations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎10‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 9:49 PM, BigTed3 said:

What Julien should do:

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov

Byron-Plekanec-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Shaw

Martinsen-Mitchell-McCarron

 

I just don't see a role/need for King. I'll take Martinsen over Ott, although I think that's a bit of a toss-up, and frankly, I'd rather have Carr or Hudon over both those players anyways.

Ill admit that King , Martinson , Ott are not scorers and add very little in the way off offense but they do add size and toughness something that this teams was severly lacking .

This team got pushed around way too much . I can only guess that Julien had a say in acquiring them . He knew this was a soft , easy team to play against

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

 

Personally I feel that Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Plecanek, Gallagher, Radulov, Beaulieu, and Emelin have all under-performed this regular season.

Plecanel and Gallagher yes . The rest , maybe you expected more out of them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Ill admit that King , Martinson , Ott are not scorers and add very little in the way off offense but they do add size and toughness something that this teams was severly lacking .

This team got pushed around way too much . I can only guess that Julien had a say in acquiring them . He knew this was a soft , easy team to play against

Hawks have won Cups without much muscle int he line-up. Wild have gone 4 scoring lines and have been picked by many as a Cup favorite this year. Rangers also roll 4 lines with skill/speed over goonery, even though they have guys like Kreider who play dirty anyways. Point being, you want to have size but you need to have size with guys who can play hockey. It's why it would be nice if McCarron could develop into a top 6 player. Martinsen's got some speed but doesn't seem to have much touch around the net nor a ton of hockey sense. Ott plays hard but doesn't bring much skill-wise. And King for me has been dead weight in the line-up: slow, not very physical given his reputation, and with little puck skill either. Give me a guy like Carr over any of them, a player who plays in the dirty areas and throws hits but who also goes to the net and scores a few goals. We're not getting that from our "size" in the line-up right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher (we need goals. Galchenyuk has had success with both these players before, and Gallagher is finally playing like Gallagher again)

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw (this line works. It's like the EGG line. It just needs to be. LSD)

Byron-Plekanec-Radulov (three capable players, maybe make the match-ups easier for Radulov)

Ott-Mitchell-McCarron (King needs to sit; I'd get Mitchell and Mac back in)

 

And on D, anyone but Nesterov...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 9:49 PM, BigTed3 said:

What Julien should do:

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov

Byron-Plekanec-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Shaw

Martinsen-Mitchell-McCarron

 

I just don't see a role/need for King. I'll take Martinsen over Ott, although I think that's a bit of a toss-up, and frankly, I'd rather have Carr or Hudon over both those players anyways.

I actually like this line up , though at this point I'd keep Chucky on the wind and Shaw at center. The other change if Emilen is ready bring him in for Nesterov.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

its entirely possible that he's telling the truth but i wouldnt be at all surprised to see him roll something different come game time.  Unlike Therrien, Julien actually knows how to coach & coacing 101 is: dont let the opposition know what you're up to before the game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dave186622 said:

Still don't see why they don't go back to the lines when they started the season and were scoring 4 goal per game

Pacioretty- galchenyuk-gally

Radulov-plecanec-lekohnen

I wonder if anyone has mentioned this to Coach Julien.....  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dave186622 said:

Still don't see why they don't go back to the lines when they started the season and were scoring 4 goal per game

Pacioretty- galchenyuk-gally

Radulov-plecanec-lekohnen

Well two things:

1) the 4 goals a game thing was unsustainable. It was based on ridiculously high shooting percentages so you knew it had to come back to earth.  However, that said, I agree that those 6 looked like a great top 6 and I dont know why we couldnt go back to it.  It would give us shaw / danault +  for our 3rd too, which is a great start. 

2) the problem with that grouping is that we're now at game 2 of the post season.  Julien had 20 or so games to play with lines & evaluate talent.  At this point, its probably too late to make massive changes.  Its a shame he didnt try it for at least a few games, although in fairness to him, he came in to a team with a super fragile psyche so i understand why he wanted to take baby steps at first. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BigTed3 said:

Very clear that King, Martinsen, and Nesterov should draw out and Mitchell, Mac, and Davidson or Emelin if healthy should draw in. But glad at least to see Galchenyuk back on a scoring line.

What would you say if CJ stuck to the same lines AGAIN in Game 3?  :4322:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, PuckPundit said:

What would you say if CJ stuck to the same lines AGAIN in Game 3?  :4322:

Well he played Galchenyuk on the 3rd for half the game, so hopefully the whole King thing is out of his system. But there's no reason to choose King over Mitchell and no reason to choose Nesterov over Davidson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...