2016-17 The Rumors Thread

[BigTed3]

Kypreos also said other teams are "monitoring the Pacioretty situation" and are ready to jump. Now just to recap, Therrien has already run Subban out of town. He's decided he didn't need or like Eller or PAP or Briere or Diaz, Sekac, Semin, Kassian, Thomas, and so on. He doesn't seem to care much for Beaulieu or Hudon or McCarron and he's only now coming around on Galchenyuk. In fact, Therrien seems content in building his line-up around the likes of Shaw, Flynn, Byron, Mitchell, Weber, Markov, Desharnais, and so on. No need for skill, as long as you have Carey in goal!

Therrien has always seemingly been a member of the Pacioretty fan club. But we have the golf rumors of the summer with Therrien bad-mouthing Pacioretty as a captain. And now this is the second time Kypreos is reporting a grudge between Pacioretty and Therrien. The same Kypreos who broke the Subban trade when no one thought the Habs would really be dumb enough to move him despite the appearance of trouble between coach and player. So how many times are we going to let Therrien run skill and talent out of town? How many times are we going to choose an antiquated coach over our best players? Pretty soon we're going to have Carey and 18 grinders in front of him, until Price walks away as a UFA in a couple of years that is. Let's read the pattern here. It's not every skill player who can be at fault. At some point, Bergevin and Molson have to recognize that the common denominator to these personality issues is a stubborn coach who lets his ego stand ahead of all else.

 

[habs1952]

14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Kypreos also said other teams are "monitoring the Pacioretty situation" and are ready to jump. Now just to recap, Therrien has already run Subban out of town. He's decided he didn't need or like Eller or PAP or Briere or Diaz, Sekac, Semin, Kassian, Thomas, and so on. He doesn't seem to care much for Beaulieu or Hudon or McCarron and he's only now coming around on Galchenyuk. In fact, Therrien seems content in building his line-up around the likes of Shaw, Flynn, Byron, Mitchell, Weber, Markov, Desharnais, and so on. No need for skill, as long as you have Carey in goal!

Therrien has always seemingly been a member of the Pacioretty fan club. But we have the golf rumors of the summer with Therrien bad-mouthing Pacioretty as a captain. And now this is the second time Kypreos is reporting a grudge between Pacioretty and Therrien. The same Kypreos who broke the Subban trade when no one thought the Habs would really be dumb enough to move him despite the appearance of trouble between coach and player. So how many times are we going to let Therrien run skill and talent out of town? How many times are we going to choose an antiquated coach over our best players? Pretty soon we're going to have Carey and 18 grinders in front of him, until Price walks away as a UFA in a couple of years that is. Let's read the pattern here. It's not every skill player who can be at fault. At some point, Bergevin and Molson have to recognize that the common denominator to these personality issues is a stubborn coach who lets his ego stand ahead of all else.

 

Or demands a trade out of the circus.

[Noob616]

Someone on HFBoards suggested Sergachev, McCarron, 2017 1st, and Desharnais as a cap dump for Duchene.

 

I'd make that deal in a heartbeat. Sergachev would be a shame to lose but I think you have to go all in. 

[BigTed3]

1 hour ago, Noob616 said:

Someone on HFBoards suggested Sergachev, McCarron, 2017 1st, and Desharnais as a cap dump for Duchene.

 

I'd make that deal in a heartbeat. Sergachev would be a shame to lose but I think you have to go all in. 

That's basically 3 first rounders for Duchene... a little too much for me to think of that as a good deal, especially since McCarron and Sergachev are probably our two best prospects. Make it McCarron and Juulsen (instead of Sergachev) or make it Hudon/Lehkonen/Scherbak instead of McCarron and it's a more plausible scenario.

I think it's clear MB has to make a move for a top 6 player though, ideally a center. RNH is another name that's been tossed around and might be had a little cheaper than Duchene. There have also been rumors the Isles might be willing to part with Tavares for the right offer... he'd obviously cost a bomb, but if you can get him re-signed for the future, he gives us (with Galchenyuk) a 1-2 punch at center that's as good as anyone outside of Pittsburgh.

[Noob616]

3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

That's basically 3 first rounders for Duchene... a little too much for me to think of that as a good deal, especially since McCarron and Sergachev are probably our two best prospects. Make it McCarron and Juulsen (instead of Sergachev) or make it Hudon/Lehkonen/Scherbak instead of McCarron and it's a more plausible scenario.

I think it's clear MB has to make a move for a top 6 player though, ideally a center. RNH is another name that's been tossed around and might be had a little cheaper than Duchene. There have also been rumors the Isles might be willing to part with Tavares for the right offer... he'd obviously cost a bomb, but if you can get him re-signed for the future, he gives us (with Galchenyuk) a 1-2 punch at center that's as good as anyone outside of Pittsburgh.

I just really think it's the best fit of what's realistically available. It's not fair value in a vacuum but IMO the Habs need Duchene immediately far more than they need prime McCarron in 2 or 3 seasons. Sergachev has super high end potential but you have to give something to get something and Duchene is a hell of a player too. Maybe I'm underrating McCarron but I feel like he's at best maybe a 2nd/3rd line tweener and to me you don't hum and haw over a guy like that when we're talking about adding a #1C to a team that needs to be competitive now.

Of course it's preferable to try and get something done cheaper and Sergachev+Hudon+2nd is maybe feasible but if Sergachev+McCarron+1st is what it takes then I'd be fine with it. I think the team has to go all in immediately and Duchene is probably the best available center that can be had for only futures. A Tavares deal would most likely include a roster player and presumably one of Pacioretty or Gallagher would be going the other way, I just don't see any reasonable package the Habs could put together for Tavares without including a core player, and the Habs need to be adding to the core and going all in.

Reality is Price has a year and a half left at 6.5M and then he either costs 10M+ or leaves. Price's contract and the Subban trade have made it an urgent necessity to compete immediately, ideally this year and at the very latest next year. If you have to overpay to get a bonafide first line center then I'd be prepared to overpay for one. I just greatly fear the idea that the team doesn't make a deal and in 5 years we're left shaking our heads at how the team didn't go all in when they had maybe the best player in the world in his prime signed for 6.5M. 

 

[habs_93]

6 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Reality is Price has a year and a half left at 6.5M and then he either costs 10M+ or leaves. Price's contract and the Subban trade have made it an urgent necessity to compete immediately, ideally this year and at the very latest next year. If you have to overpay to get a bonafide first line center then I'd be prepared to overpay for one. I just greatly fear the idea that the team doesn't make a deal and in 5 years we're left shaking our heads at how the team didn't go all in when they had maybe the best player in the world in his prime signed for 6.5M. 

Yep. I would trade any pick and prospect for legitimate first line power right now.

[Noob616]

Duchene is also only 25 and apparently "was a Habs fan growing up" so it's reasonable to think he'd sign long term.

[ChiLla]

It's an interesting idea and I have to agree – Galchenyuk and Radulov both need to be extended after this season, followed by Price in 2018 and Pacioretty the year after. With the addition of Weber, it's obvious that we should be trying to win now.

I wouldn't touch Sergachev though, unless it's a deal that's simply too good to refuse. After losing Subban, he may well be our most important prospect. If a combination of either McCarron/Scherbak plus Juulsen and our first rounder is enough to land Duchene, I'd definitely pull the trigger though. Starting next year with Galchenyuk/Duchene/Danault/Mitchell at center would definitely be a major upgrade.

 

[xxdocxx]

10 hours ago, Noob616 said:

I just really think it's the best fit of what's realistically available. It's not fair value in a vacuum but IMO the Habs need Duchene immediately far more than they need prime McCarron in 2 or 3 seasons. Sergachev has super high end potential but you have to give something to get something and Duchene is a hell of a player too. Maybe I'm underrating McCarron but I feel like he's at best maybe a 2nd/3rd line tweener and to me you don't hum and haw over a guy like that when we're talking about adding a #1C to a team that needs to be competitive now.

Of course it's preferable to try and get something done cheaper and Sergachev+Hudon+2nd is maybe feasible but if Sergachev+McCarron+1st is what it takes then I'd be fine with it. I think the team has to go all in immediately and Duchene is probably the best available center that can be had for only futures. A Tavares deal would most likely include a roster player and presumably one of Pacioretty or Gallagher would be going the other way, I just don't see any reasonable package the Habs could put together for Tavares without including a core player, and the Habs need to be adding to the core and going all in.

Reality is Price has a year and a half left at 6.5M and then he either costs 10M+ or leaves. Price's contract and the Subban trade have made it an urgent necessity to compete immediately, ideally this year and at the very latest next year. If you have to overpay to get a bonafide first line center then I'd be prepared to overpay for one. I just greatly fear the idea that the team doesn't make a deal and in 5 years we're left shaking our heads at how the team didn't go all in when they had maybe the best player in the world in his prime signed for 6.5M. 

 

Well said lets go all in right now. 24 years has been just to damn long.

[habs_93]

30 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

I wouldn't touch Sergachev though, unless it's a deal that's simply too good to refuse. After losing Subban, he may well be our most important prospect. If a combination of either McCarron/Scherbak plus Juulsen and our first rounder is enough to land Duchene, I'd definitely pull the trigger though. Starting next year with Galchenyuk/Duchene/Danault/Mitchell at center would definitely be a major upgrade.

Without a massive increase in the cap or some incredible luck with drafting or trades (neither of which we should plan for happening), it won't matter how good Sergachev is. If we resign all our marquee players, there's no money left to do anything. We either win now or next season. Either way (hopefully both), we're looking at a rebuild after that.

[Noob616]

Yeah I agree. Sergachev is a really high end prospect but to me Carey Price at age 29-30 at a 6.5M cap hit is one of the most valuable NHL assets remotely conceivable. That's really what it comes down to for me. There's no certainty with this stuff, Price has had a couple knee injuries and there's no guarantee he has Lundqvist style longevity and plays near his prime well into his 30s. 

I just feel like I'd be so much more upset if the team fizzles out in the 2nd round with Galchenyuk-Plekanec as the top 2 centers than if they make a serious run and Sergachev becomes a star somewhere else. This isn't like the McDonagh-Gomez trade since the team actually has other elite players to build around, and a 25 year old Duchene for 6M is not the same as a 30 year old Gomez with a billion dollars and an eon left on his contract.

[maas_art]

15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I think it's clear MB has to make a move for a top 6 player though, ideally a center. RNH is another name that's been tossed around and might be had a little cheaper than Duchene. There have also been rumors the Isles might be willing to part with Tavares for the right offer... he'd obviously cost a bomb, but if you can get him re-signed for the future, he gives us (with Galchenyuk) a 1-2 punch at center that's as good as anyone outside of Pittsburgh.

Yeah any of those 3 are appealing to me.  

RNH is probably the best fit for us - he'd be a great 2nd line centre and I think we' could get him for a lot less than the other 2.  By all accounts Chiarelli still covets Emelin highly. Now that MT believes he's a 1st pairing dman (lol) maybe we can do it straight up! Either way I think he can be the main part of the package for RNH.  

Duchene would be a phenomenal addition and give us one heck of a 1-2 punch but Im not sure we can pull it off without giving up a lot of prospects.  

Tavares is obviously an incredible player but I think we'd have to blow up the team to get him.  

With either Duchene or Tavares I think you can kiss the prospect of resigning Radulov goodbye. We may still be able to keep him if we got RNH. 

[Noob616]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

With either Duchene or Tavares I think you can kiss the prospect of resigning Radulov goodbye. We may still be able to keep him if we got RNH. 

It might mean Markov is gone after this year bu probably doesn't prevent a Radulov extension. Duchene and RNH are both signed at $6M and a trade for either would have to include Plekanec or Desharnais going the other way as a cap dump. Right now the Habs have 23.1M in cap space for next year. Assuming the trade for Duchene/RNH includes Desharnais as a cap dump and the Habs still have Plekanec next season, there's still 17.1M left to retain Galchenyuk, Radulov, Hudon, and Beaulieu, and to either retain or replace Markov, Montoya, and Flynn from the active roster. There's lots of other expiring contracts but they're all AHL contracts that don't have cap implications.

17.1M is more than enough to hang on to everyone. 7X$6M for Galchenyuk, 5X$6M for Radulov, 1X$1.5M for Beaulieu, 1X800k for Hudon, and either Montoya/Lindgren/Shooter-Tutor as your backup for $1M. That leaves 1.6M in cap space with the only guy not explicitly replaced being Markov. The Habs could likely also pull a Kucherov type deal and squeeze Galchenyuk to get him for like 4X4.5M offering a chance to retain Markov at like $2.5-3M or so.That ignores the expansion draft too. If the Habs trade for RNH/Duchene and Desharnais is the cap dump, Plekanec would 100% be exposed in the expansion draft and almost certainly selected which frees his $6M.

[jeff33]

I heard a rumour that MB is going to do nothing, but a blockbuster to obtain peter holland from the leafs for a conditional 5th rounder remains an outside possibility

[Serial_Thrilla_27]

I noticed in looking at the Dougie Hamilton trade that Calgary coughed up a 1st and 2 2nd rounders in 2015 for Hamilton.  Maybe if MTL threw their 1st and 2 2nd rounders this year towards a bottom feeding COL, it would be enough to acquire a Matt Duchene.

[Noob616]

2 hours ago, jeff33 said:

I heard a rumour that MB is going to do nothing, but a blockbuster to obtain peter holland from the leafs for a conditional 5th rounder remains an outside possibility

 Nah I think MB sells the farm this year and moves a 3rd rounder for Dale Weise. It's a steep price to pay but if you want to fizzle out in 6 games during the first round you have to pay it.

[jeff33]

45 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

 Nah I think MB sells the farm this year and moves a 3rd rounder for Dale Weise. It's a steep price to pay but if you want to fizzle out in 6 games during the first round you have to pay it.

 

[ChiLla]

13 hours ago, habs_93 said:

Without a massive increase in the cap or some incredible luck with drafting or trades (neither of which we should plan for happening), it won't matter how good Sergachev is. If we resign all our marquee players, there's no money left to do anything. We either win now or next season. Either way (hopefully both), we're looking at a rebuild after that.

I hear you, but we still have options to gain Cap space I think. Markov, Desharnais, Plekanec, Emelin = close to 20M in potential savings. Losing Markov would certainly hurt short-term, but Sergachev is eventually going to replace him anyway. I'd try my best to hold on to the kid for the inevitable rebuild, because he'll probably be a perfect complement to Weber (who's not going anywhere). Like I said, if it's an offer you simply can't refuse or some sort of major package deal for an elite forward (e.g. Tavares), I'd include him. Not really for Duchene though, who's definitely great but not elite IMO.

[PuckPundit]

On 06/12/2016 at 10:34 AM, BigTed3 said:

There have also been rumors the Isles might be willing to part with Tavares for the right offer... he'd obviously cost a bomb, but if you can get him re-signed for the future, he gives us (with Galchenyuk) a 1-2 punch at center that's as good as anyone outside of Pittsburgh.

This is a complete joke!  Islanders will NEVER trade John Tavares because he's their iconic franchise poster player.  Tavares will only leave the team if he walks.

Just not going to happen.  Besides, I don't think Habs have the cap space to afford him when they're unable to move their high-salaried dead weights.  

It's the Steven Stamkos fantasy speculation last season all over again.

[ChiLla]

 

Tavares needs a new contract after next season, hence the speculation.

The Stamkos situation was fundamentally different, simply because he was already playing on a team with a legitimate chance to win the Cup. And still came very close to leaving. The Islanders? They're a much better team now than they were a few years back but certainly aren't deep enough to be a contender.

[madpanda]

14 hours ago, Noob616 said:

It might mean Markov is gone after this year bu probably doesn't prevent a Radulov extension. Duchene and RNH are both signed at $6M and a trade for either would have to include Plekanec or Desharnais going the other way as a cap dump. Right now the Habs have 23.1M in cap space for next year. Assuming the trade for Duchene/RNH includes Desharnais as a cap dump and the Habs still have Plekanec next season, there's still 17.1M left to retain Galchenyuk, Radulov, Hudon, and Beaulieu, and to either retain or replace Markov, Montoya, and Flynn from the active roster. There's lots of other expiring contracts but they're all AHL contracts that don't have cap implications.

17.1M is more than enough to hang on to everyone. 7X$6M for Galchenyuk, 5X$6M for Radulov, 1X$1.5M for Beaulieu, 1X800k for Hudon, and either Montoya/Lindgren/Shooter-Tutor as your backup for $1M. That leaves 1.6M in cap space with the only guy not explicitly replaced being Markov. The Habs could likely also pull a Kucherov type deal and squeeze Galchenyuk to get him for like 4X4.5M offering a chance to retain Markov at like $2.5-3M or so.That ignores the expansion draft too. If the Habs trade for RNH/Duchene and Desharnais is the cap dump, Plekanec would 100% be exposed in the expansion draft and almost certainly selected which frees his $6M.

I dont see us being able to sign Galchenyuk for 4.5 , id say 6 is lower than what he will get , im thinking 7 and maybe a bit more at 6 years plus. Radulov would be around 6 though i agree and id have no problem with them giving him 6 years plus also. We need to get the underproducing high cap hit players gone and spend the cap money on players that help win games , and extend Carey for whatever he wants lol.

[madpanda]

I know this has been beaten to death but Yakupov sitting out again in STL how could you not at least make an offer , May work out and may not but the guys a health scratch and could prob be had for spare parts. Worth a shot if you ask me.

[Serial_Thrilla_27]

10 hours ago, madpanda said:

I know this has been beaten to death but Yakupov sitting out again in STL how could you not at least make an offer , May work out and may not but the guys a health scratch and could prob be had for spare parts. Worth a shot if you ask me.

I've given much thought to acquiring Yakupov as well...at this point you could probably trade Brian Flynn for him straight up...And I would have absolutely no problem waving bye-bye to Flynn.  I never was a big fan.  There has been talk of bringing in Matt Duchene.  But Duchene I see more as being an off-season move.

There are 2 names on COL's roster that did catch my eye:  Patrick Wiercioch and Mikhail Grigorenko.  Hear me out.

Both Grigorenko and Yakupov are former 1st rounders from 2012.  Their respective careers have been anything but storybook thus far.  However we do have the epitome of turning a hockey career around in the form of Alexander Radulov.  He could be a great example for these young former 1st rounders.  You may even be able to salvage their careers for them.  I did noticed last night that the other 2 Russians (Markov, Emelin) have elevated their game since Radulov's arrival.  I saw a lot of strong 2nd efforts from our D.  Maybe Radulov could be the missing pieces to Yakupov and Grigorenko's puzzle of success.  They could play harder for their fellow countryman and as a point of personal pride.  It would also make up for the size and skill your missing with Galchenyuk out.

As for Wierioch, he could be the left side D your looking for to compliment Weber.  Wiercioch is having a rebound year after only registering 5 assists all of last season in Ottawa.  However Wiercioch is still only 25 years old and is 6-5 and 200 plus pounds.  Similar to the Russians, Wiercioch could benefit from mentoring under the wing of 2016's Mark Messier award winner Shea Weber.

The reason why I'm an advocate for these moves are as follows: 

1. They're cap friendly.  Wiercioch (800K), Grigorenko (1.3 mil) and Yakupov (2.5 mil) altogether are still 1.4 mil less of a cap hit than Duchene.

2. They're trade friendly.  In order to realistically trade for Duchene, you're going to have to give up perhaps Pacioretty and picks.    Yakupov will take Flynn as I stated before.  Wiercioch and Grigorenko would most likely take a package a mid range prospect and 1 or 2 of our 2nd rounders.  Maybe like Matteau or Josiah Didier and both our 2nd rounders in 2017.  

3.  They're low risk.  If these guys don't pan out you walk.  If they do pan out, you can protect them, sign them to bridge deals and expose one of your bigger cap hits (Plekanec) to Vegas.  Currently you have both Desharnais and Galchenyuk  out for 6-8 weeks with lower body injuries.  Bringing in these young men via trade could help fill gaps on our roster.  Moving forward you could go with lines like:

Yakupov, Grigorenko, Radulov

Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher

Byron, Danault, Shaw

Lehkonen, Mitchell, Andrigetto

Wiercioch, Weber

Markov, Petry

Emelin, Beaulieu

Price

Montoya

 

Taxi Squad: Carr, Redmond, Pateryn

[kinot-1]

I read today that Iginla could be had. 6 mil. per ?????? Nahhh.

I also heard that Minny's Grubanson might be available. 

[habs_93]

38 minutes ago, kinot-1 said:

I read today that Iginla could be had. 6 mil. per ?????? Nahhh.

I also heard that Minny's Grubanson might be available. 

Hard pass on both.