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2016-17 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3

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Eklund has us in on Shattenkirk, Doan and Iginla.

Its Eklund, so its probably rubbish, but my thoughts:

- Shattenkirk - an appealing player but he's not great defensively and he's going to cost a lot. the only way the blues move him is if they get quality up front - can we afford to move that? He's proven offensively but do we need him?  Weber, Markov and Petry are all good offensive weapons and Beaulieu probably has the skills to be one too if we gave him the chance.  Id probably pass unless the blues were giving him away, which they wont. 

- Doan - not interested

- Iginla - an interesting one.  On the one hand he's not going to make a massive day to day difference but if you could get him for a little at the deadline then he's an interesting guy to have on your roster going into the post season.   Seems way too early to be talking about acquiring him though. If we did get him I would worry that MT would overplay him.  

 

If i was MB id still be pushing very hard for RNH who i think is available and would help this team enormously, especially after Galchenyuk returns, giving us an awesome 1-2 punch. 

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Replacing Markov (and maybe Weber, but that's not happening) with Shattenkirk would almost certainly be a net positive 5-on-5, but at what cost? If it could be done without ruining our chances at landing a legitimate top 6 forward around the All-Star break, I'd seriously consider it.

Neither Doan nor Iginla add anything to this roster. We all know what would happen under Therrien: they'd be stealing minutes from a younger, more versatile player.

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1 hour ago, habs_93 said:

Replacing Markov (and maybe Weber, but that's not happening) with Shattenkirk would almost certainly be a net positive 5-on-5, but at what cost? If it could be done without ruining our chances at landing a legitimate top 6 forward around the All-Star break, I'd seriously consider it.

Neither Doan nor Iginla add anything to this roster. We all know what would happen under Therrien: they'd be stealing minutes from a younger, more versatile player.

MT would put them out for overtime.

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15 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

MT would put them out for overtime.

At least there's no 3v3 in the playoffs. You'd think a team built on speed would take advantage of that asset in OT, not use its oldest, slowest players when the game's on the line in that type of situation. It seems like it should be obvious... Therrien himself last year said Markov wasn't cut out for playing 3v3 given how old and tired he was. And yet, Therrien's decision to put him out there once again cost us a potential point in the standings this season.

Agreed BTW that we should stay away from Doan and Iginla.

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I'm still insisting that our best trade option is COL.  The Avs are going absolutely nowhere fast.  But they do have a couple of low cost options for us.  Clearly Iginla, unless COL is willing to retain salary is not a realistic option for us.  However, they do have 2 UFA's in Bourque and Wiercioch that we could benefit from.  They also have a 6-3, 209 lbs. centre, who has the potential to serve as a poor mans Galchenyuk until Galchenyuk gets back.  Just so people can see I've done my homework, here's the stat lines on all 3 of the guys I'm looking to add:

Bourque: 

2017 Regular 26 9 3 12 -8 19 38 12 2 0 0 0 2 48 0.188

 

Grigorenko: 

2017 Regular 27 3 7 10 -3 8 8 8 0 3 0 0 0 35 0.086

 

Wiercioch: 

2017 Regular 26 2 6 8 -2 17 27 31 0 0 0 0 0 29 0.069

 

In order to add these 3 players, we'll have to give up a couple of assets...Maybe something like:

 

To COL: Daniel Carr, Brian Flynn, Noah Juulsen, 2nd rnd pick, 2017

To MTL: Mikhail Grigorenko, Patrick Wiercioch, Rene Bourque

 

Your new potential line up is:

Pacioretty, Plekanec, Radulov

Byron, Grigorenko, Gallagher

Lehkonen, Danault, Shaw

Bourque, Mitchell, McCarron

Emelin, Weber

Wiercioch, Petry

Markov, Beaulieu

Price

Montoya

 

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Yeah, I think you can forget about any chance of Rene Bourque coming back here under Therrien. He isn't a consistent performer and he wasn't liked by the coach here. Wiercioch is also not adding much on top of what we already have, so it's a bit of a waste to acquire him. I'd be okay with looking into Grigorenko, but without a doubt, Duchene interests me more than any other player Colorado might be willing to deal.

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As for Montreal...the NHL source added, "Had they not gotten hit so hard up the middle there looked to be an outline of a deal to be done back in early November...that has changed a bit as the Canadiens shift to filling in their offense with an Iginla and a Doan."

 

eklund on us being in on shattenkirk.

 

2 things i find funny, because as much as eklund is a doorknob this smacks of the foxhole habs

 

1. the fact that we might want a 1st pairing RHD to drive offence...sure wish we had one of those huh

2. the fact that we now need to shore up our offence.....with 2 over the hill plugs who sport lots of character 

also..before our injuries? so who was the trade target? double d? for shattenkirk? or would we, as i have suggested , be happy to trade chucky and his selfish dipsy doodles?

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14 hours ago, Serial_Thrilla_27 said:

I'm still insisting that our best trade option is COL.  The Avs are going absolutely nowhere fast.  But they do have a couple of low cost options for us.  Clearly Iginla, unless COL is willing to retain salary is not a realistic option for us.  However, they do have 2 UFA's in Bourque and Wiercioch that we could benefit from.  They also have a 6-3, 209 lbs. centre, who has the potential to serve as a poor mans Galchenyuk until Galchenyuk gets back.  Just so people can see I've done my homework, here's the stat lines on all 3 of the guys I'm looking to add:


 

 

 

 

 

Bourque is still as useless as he was his first time in Montreal. No thanks.

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On 12/16/2016 at 1:33 PM, habs1952 said:

Bourque is still as useless as he was his first time in Montreal. No thanks.

9 goals in 26 games on a struggling Colorado team?  I wish some of our wingers were that useless.  You see a useless winger, I see a low cap hit playoff rental who put up 8 goals and 11 points  in 17 games the last time we went deep in the playoffs.

Everyone wants us to hit the home run acquisition.  But there are a bunch of teams out there who have a much deeper and more desirable cache of assets to offer teams for big names.  In order for us to get a big name we're going to have to give one.  Which means we're creating one hole to fill another.

The truth of the matter is, adding Rene Bourque to our roster again would automatically tie him for 3rd on our team in goals scored with the currently injured Alex Galchenyuk.  I think the additions of Grigorenko, Bourque and Wiercioch are low risk, high reward.  They're safe moves and quite frankly, unless there's another Collberg and a 2nd for Vanek move up Bergie's sleeve; you can't really trust our current GM to pull off something bigger.  

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3 hours ago, loyalhabsfan said:

What would you be willing to give up from our roster right now for Jamie Benn? I had a dream he was on our first line last night and then woke up thinking I was a genius...

i think you'd have to basically ship out the whole team.   Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and a 1st probably.  Or maybe just Carey Price straight up.

 

In another rumor, there is some noise coming out of NY that Tavares may actually be available.  The thinking is, they've done such a poor job building around him that he may not have any interest in resigning with them next summer (he's UFA in 2018).   So, if they have a legitimate feeling they cant resign him then they may well try to move him for assets.

I wonder what it would take. I think you can bet dollars for donuts Patches would be part of the deal. Not only is he a high profile goal scorer, he's from the area and the isles have inquired about him before.   Im not sure how much more we'd need to add though.  Would NY be interested in a package of parts (ie, 3 or 4 players) or would they want Patches + another high end player + 1st.   

Either way, if Tavares is available, Im doing everything I can to get him.   To be honest, anyone not named price (and probably Galchenyuk too) is probably available for Tavares if i am GM.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

i think you'd have to basically ship out the whole team.   Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and a 1st probably.  Or maybe just Carey Price straight up.

 

In another rumor, there is some noise coming out of NY that Tavares may actually be available.  The thinking is, they've done such a poor job building around him that he may not have any interest in resigning with them next summer (he's UFA in 2018).   So, if they have a legitimate feeling they cant resign him then they may well try to move him for assets.

I wonder what it would take. I think you can bet dollars for donuts Patches would be part of the deal. Not only is he a high profile goal scorer, he's from the area and the isles have inquired about him before.   Im not sure how much more we'd need to add though.  Would NY be interested in a package of parts (ie, 3 or 4 players) or would they want Patches + another high end player + 1st.   

Either way, if Tavares is available, Im doing everything I can to get him.   To be honest, anyone not named price (and probably Galchenyuk too) is probably available for Tavares if i am GM.

Pacioretty for Tavares straight up for sure but I'd accept no less. Actually I'm surprised Pacioretty is still with us because he certainly doesn't fit in well with management's molded view of grit & character. However his parroting of management's ideologies is probably his one saving grace.

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NYI would never take patchy for tavares straight up. not only are they 2 different tiers of player, the isles wouldnt want a winger back with no center to play with. the scuttlebutt is in fact the isles are looking for a winger to play with him. http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nyi161211.html

I think this is something we should be seriously looking into. Id want Leddy back to play our left side 1st pairing , a 1st and a nice forward off their roster, like a josh bailey or something. I think the isles are desperate  to get a winger for tavares so he wont walk, and we really might be able to get them to give up a lot

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

NYI would never take patchy for tavares straight up. not only are they 2 different tiers of player, the isles wouldnt want a winger back with no center to play with. the scuttlebutt is in fact the isles are looking for a winger to play with him. http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nyi161211.html

I think this is something we should be seriously looking into. Id want Leddy back to play our left side 1st pairing , a 1st and a nice forward off their roster, like a josh bailey or something. I think the isles are desperate  to get a winger for tavares so he wont walk, and we really might be able to get them to give up a lot

Its an interesting thought.


Tavares - Leddy  

for

Pacioretty - McCarron - DD- Markov - Pateryn - 1st

 

The isles get more depth and probably see an immediate reward in terms of a more competitive team short term.   McCarron has the potential to be a top 6 centre while Pacioretty and DD can step in right away.  On the back end they get an elite PP quarterback and a young up and comer. 

With most teams I dont think you could move a bunch of mid and lower tier players for 2 top end ones but with Garth Snow you never know ;)
 

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The Tavares rumors have been around for a few months now, and I think it basically comes down to whether the Isles feel they can keep him. If they believe they won't, they're better off getting a return on him, but they may be willing to wait until next year to see if he'll sign. There have been plenty of rumors out there that Tavares doesn't see the team going anywhere, especially with how much they've regressed this year, and so it's realistic to think his walking away could be an option. That said, we were all a little bit surprised Stamkos didn't at least see what was out there on the UFA market before re-signing with Tampa, and the Isles still have the option of offering an extra season on a long-term deal, so maybe that's enticing to Tavares.

In terms of what it would take for a trade... Pacioretty for Tavares is actually not that crazy of a deal. In the past 5 seasons, Tavares has 132 goals and 292 points. Pacioretty has 133 goals and 255 points. So Pacman has maybe 7-8 fewer points per season, but they're even in terms of goal production. Then tack on that Pacioretty is signed for an extra year, is on a more friendly contract, and comes from the NY area, and it might be enticing for a team like the Isles. If we can see Hall for Larsson and Subban for Weber, then I'd venture Pacioretty for Tavares is at least possible.

Now imagine you're NY. If you figure you can't win in the next 2-3 years (and let's face it, they can't, it's just a question of whether Snow reaches that conclusion on his own). So you look at your next generation of players like Strome, Beauvillier, Barzal, Dal Colle, and Ho Sang. Now three of those five guys can play center and two are left wingers. So what they need more than anything is help on the right wing and possibly a bit of help on the back end for now and going into the future. The Isles aren't going to have any interest in DD or Plekanec (why get older and take on bad contracts when they don't help your future?). Maybe they ask for Galchenyuk, but that's a bit of a lateral move for us. So the players I can see interesting them and being expendable for us include Pacman, Gallagher, McCarron, and Beaulieu. As I noted above, I don't see Pacman as being that far off from Tavares in terms of production nor in defensive play, but centers tend to be more valued than wingers, and Tavares has the reputation. So my offer to the Isles would be

Pacioretty + McCarron OR

Pacioretty + Beaulieu OR

Gallagher + Beaulieu + our 1st rounder + Was or Chi's 2nd rounder.

I'd wonder if any of those offers would be attractive to Snow.

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Something I would almost bet money that Snow would do:

Pacioretty - Weber

for 

Tavares - Leddy

Dont think MB would.  It would give Snow a Big-Name player (Weber) in return for Tavares, which is something I *think* he will insist on. 

 

Would give us:

Lehkonen - Tavares - Radulov
Byron - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
Danault - Plekanec -  Shaw
Carr - Mitchell - Flynn

Leddy - Petry
Beaulieu - Pateryn
Markov - Redmond


Would definitely change the makeup of the team. Down the middle we'd have the strongest group since 1993/94.    If you buy into the idea that Centre is the most important position after Goal, that would be a very interesting play.   Cant see MB moving the man-mountain though.  It would make us weak on the left although you could possibly flip Plekanec (and give Danault his slot) for a top 6 LW. 

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I personally believe having a good #1 D man is more important than a #1 center (outside of say Crosby or McDavid). Centers can dominate, but a #1 D man usually helps you at both ends of the ice, runs the PP, play the PK, AND is usually on the ice for several more minutes per game than any forward.

I agree that Tavares should in theory command more than Pacioretty, but that's probably more on reputation and the fact he's a center. If Weber can fetch Subban and Larsson can fetch Hall, then Pacioretty for Tavares and Pacioretty plus something else like McCarron or Beaulieu really isn't that farfetched. In the past 5 years, the top 5 goal scorers at 5v5 are in order Stamkos, Ovi, Perry, Seguin, and Pacioretty. Tavares is #7. For total goals, it's Ovi, Stamkos, Pavelski, Perry, and then Pacman and Tavares tied for 5th. The bottom line is that Pacioretty is an elite scorer in the NHL, one of the 5 best in the league for all positions and not just a PP specialist. Tack on the the fact Pacioretty is still young, is on a very friendly contract, is signed for 2.5 more years, and is from the NY area, and he's going to be an intriguing player to the Isles.

All that said, while I would love to grab Tavares, I think MB needs to look at other options as well. Duchene remains a name very much in the trade winds. Sean Couturier is another player that really intrigues me as a guy who might be expendable in Philly but able to take on a much bigger role as a 2C here. RNH has been discussed. Valterri Filppula is rumored to be an option for a trade for Tampa, albeit it's always hard to deal with a division rival. There are definitely some options out there to make a hockey trade (as opposed to a deadline rental).

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I find it interesting how little some folks feel our players are worth! we are in or near first place and other than last season have been for a few years, that counts for a lot in the eyes of other GM's a guy like Patches is a solid 30 -35 goal man year in year out he is cheap too I think folks would be more than happy to make a trade for him!

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5 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

I find it interesting how little some folks feel our players are worth! we are in or near first place and other than last season have been for a few years, that counts for a lot in the eyes of other GM's a guy like Patches is a solid 30 -35 goal man year in year out he is cheap too I think folks would be more than happy to make a trade for him!

It's true.  Tavares/Patches is a bit of a funny thing for me.  On the one hand you've got Tavares; star player, face of the franchise and former #1 pick.  If you were to say that I could get him for Patches it seems on the surface to be a complete no-brainer.

But then while I'm reading Ted's post I'm thinking "you know, this is really making Max sound pretty great - why are we looking to trade him again?".  Sure Tavares plays centre and that's a more desirable position, but it's not like we've got a whole bunch of wingers waiting to take over Patches' spot (and it looks even worse if Radulov decides not to sign next year).  And Tavares is a superstar name, but that comes with a superstar price tag.  Even once their current contracts are over who thinks that Tavares will be making less money?  Not me.

So if you take away the name factor you end up with two guys with similar production, but with one making way less money.  Do we even want to make that trade straight up?

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