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2016-17 If I Were GM...


BigTed3

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there's one trade to make and its matt duchene.

our 1st, mcarron and juulsen 

players like this dont come available often. hes got very reasonable cap hit and term left,  and hes everything we need right now.  nevermind trading for hanzal or some old plug or whatever else bargain solutions.

if im GM i do what it takes to make this happen. 

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10 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

there's one trade to make and its matt duchene.

our 1st, mcarron and juulsen 

players like this dont come available often. hes got very reasonable cap hit and term left,  and hes everything we need right now.  nevermind trading for hanzal or some old plug or whatever else bargain solutions.

if im GM i do what it takes to make this happen. 

Trouble is that 4-5 teams want him and it's just like an auction then. Highest bidder wins. I don't want MB to give away good prospects. 

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31 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I'm just curious, what degree of interest there is in trading Carey Price at the upcoming draft.  I think if you can trade your way up using Carey Price as a trade chip, then do it. Maybe send Price to the Stars for the 5th overall pick.  Or maybe even to Vegas for the 3rd OVA.

IMHO you trade Price, it had better be for the 1st overall pick + a young star.

No way on earth I trade him for someone that turns into Benoit Pouliot v2.0 or Erik Gudbranson v2.0   

I wouldnt trade Price - period - at this point, BUT if i did, it would be for no less than 1st (or maybe 2nd overall) AND an established young star. 

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13 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Trouble is that 4-5 teams want him and it's just like an auction then. Highest bidder wins. I don't want MB to give away good prospects. 

gotta give to get. your hope is good prospects turn out to be actually good players, which duchene currently is right now. i wouldnt mind a bit. id throw scherbak in there too, as far as im concerned nobody we have on the farm right now other than sergachev is going to be anything special

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I'd be OK with throwing a ton at them too, as long as some salary goes the other way as part of the deal. No sense getting the guy if we don't have the cap space to extend him. If we're going to throw the farm at them, we better be certain we can keep him long term. To me, someone like Pleks needs to be part of the deal.

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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

I'd be OK with throwing a ton at them too, as long as some salary goes the other way as part of the deal. No sense getting the guy if we don't have the cap space to extend him. If we're going to throw the farm at them, we better be certain we can keep him long term. To me, someone like Pleks needs to be part of the deal.

Definitely!

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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

I'd be OK with throwing a ton at them too, as long as some salary goes the other way as part of the deal. No sense getting the guy if we don't have the cap space to extend him. If we're going to throw the farm at them, we better be certain we can keep him long term. To me, someone like Pleks needs to be part of the deal.

 

3 hours ago, jeff33 said:

there's one trade to make and its matt duchene.

our 1st, mcarron and juulsen 

players like this dont come available often. hes got very reasonable cap hit and term left,  and hes everything we need right now.  nevermind trading for hanzal or some old plug or whatever else bargain solutions.

if im GM i do what it takes to make this happen. 

I'd be fine with that personally.

Plekanec, 1st, Mccarron, Juulsen to Colorado for Duchene and Barberio :P

Pateryn (and maybe a conditional pick) to St Louis for Yakupov

Still looking for a top 4 LD option to replace Emelin. Would like Fowler, but not sure he's available or what the cost would be.
Any known options I'm not thinking of?
 

 

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7 minutes ago, RicochetII said:

 

Pateryn (and maybe a conditional pick) to St Louis for Yakupov

:6185:

 

He couldn't make a go of it in Edmonton or St Louis

I could be wrong but I don't thinking coming to Montreal he will suddenly turn into the 1st pick overall that he was

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

:6185:

 

He couldn't make a go of it in Edmonton or St Louis

I could be wrong but I don't thinking coming to Montreal he will suddenly turn into the 1st pick overall that he was

I'm not suggesting he's a sure thing either, but as I posted in the deadline thread, he is a positive possession player with skill, who has been on the wrong side of pdo a lot, while playing with teams that have been allowing a lot of goals against. Edmonton was an unmitigated disaster when he was there. He hasn't done well in St Louis either, but they have their own issues.

Either way, it's a chance to buy low on a younger, potential top 6 forward with skill. If you're going to take a chance on a player, might as well do it with a former 1st overall pick.

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11 hours ago, RicochetII said:

I'm not suggesting he's a sure thing either, but as I posted in the deadline thread, he is a positive possession player with skill, who has been on the wrong side of pdo a lot, while playing with teams that have been allowing a lot of goals against. Edmonton was an unmitigated disaster when he was there. He hasn't done well in St Louis either, but they have their own issues.

Either way, it's a chance to buy low on a younger, potential top 6 forward with skill. If you're going to take a chance on a player, might as well do it with a former 1st overall pick.

Maybe Yakupov is one of the reasons those teams have a lot of goals against.

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19 hours ago, jeff33 said:

there's one trade to make and its matt duchene.

our 1st, mcarron and juulsen 

players like this dont come available often. hes got very reasonable cap hit and term left,  and hes everything we need right now.  nevermind trading for hanzal or some old plug or whatever else bargain solutions.

if im GM i do what it takes to make this happen. 

Duchene would look great in our lineup Jeff but I think the price is just too high. Juulsen is really progressing and to many, was our best D man at the world juniors. He can move the puck and has poise in his own end. I also worry about giving McCarron away. Our team has gotten too small again and with Big Mac gone there is really no size left in the organization. (I discount Shaw because of his lack of discipline) I think McCarron will develop as a winger rather than a centre but either way, with Duchene we are just too small. I am also highly skeptical that Duchene is enough to make us a true contender and if that is the case, why do the deal? Why is Colorado looking to move him? He is still young and if he is that good why does he not figure into their future? Markov will be 39 next year and Emelin will probably get moved so we need to accumulate good defensive prospects. Why not let's see what CJ can do with this lineup for the remainder of the season before making any major roster alterations? Deadline deals often end up a bust and giving up a ton of future makes me nervous. Also, there is the bonus consideration that if the team misses the playoffs altogether we have a great opportunity of getting rid of Bergevin in the offseason and bringing in someone more competent to guide this team's fortunes .......

 

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4 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Maybe Yakupov is one of the reasons those teams have a lot of goals against.

Of course that is a possibility as well. Though he's only played in a little over half of St Louis' games this season. 
Still think he's worth giving a chance. I wouldn't be against something more certain, but we aren't going to be able to get that if Bergevin sticks to his guns in keeping his prospects.

 

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3 hours ago, eldag said:

Duchene would look great in our lineup Jeff but I think the price is just too high. Juulsen is really progressing and to many, was our best D man at the world juniors. He can move the puck and has poise in his own end. I also worry about giving McCarron away. Our team has gotten too small again and with Big Mac gone there is really no size left in the organization. (I discount Shaw because of his lack of discipline) I think McCarron will develop as a winger rather than a centre but either way, with Duchene we are just too small. I am also highly skeptical that Duchene is enough to make us a true contender and if that is the case, why do the deal? Why is Colorado looking to move him? He is still young and if he is that good why does he not figure into their future? Markov will be 39 next year and Emelin will probably get moved so we need to accumulate good defensive prospects. Why not let's see what CJ can do with this lineup for the remainder of the season before making any major roster alterations? Deadline deals often end up a bust and giving up a ton of future makes me nervous. Also, there is the bonus consideration that if the team misses the playoffs altogether we have a great opportunity of getting rid of Bergevin in the offseason and bringing in someone more competent to guide this team's fortunes .......

 

For everyone who wants us to drop every last prospect and pick we have into Colorado's lap, just for a 30 point producer, let me just add the following to the debate:

1. Marc Bergevin has only had the past 5 drafts to build up our prospect depth.  Out of those 5 drafts, there may be 2-3 prospects who can put in a regular shift at the NHL level.  So you're actually looking at a pool of between 10 or 15 bona fide prospects to pull from.  Out of those 10-15 you might have 5 that might interest Colorado.   Colorado wants potentially 2 of those 5 plus a 1st in this years draft.  That's a steep price for a guy on pace for 52 points.

2. We've already sent a young, dynamic right handed shot (Subban) to the Preds for an aging Weber.  Sending Colorado potentially our top 2 defensive prospects (Sergachev and/or Juulsen) creates a HUGE hole in our defensive futures.

3. I'm just going to put this in perspective for you with a nice heaping, helping of reality.  We are not trading for Gretzky here folks, we're not even getting Jonathan Teows in this deal.  We're getting Matt Duchene, who is the proud owner of a career .75 PPG average.  Not exactly elite.  Spending the outrageous price both Sakic and impatient fans want Bergevin to for the 96th highest scorer in the NHL, is not an efficient management of assets.  I could see it if you were acquiring Seguin, Malkin or Backstrom.  But I don't see the point in spending all of this on Duchene when you could have Eaves or Vanek, both of whom have more points than Duchene, at a much more cost effective rental price.

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21 hours ago, HabsRuleForever said:

There is no way I want Galchenyuk moved. Whatever the problem is right now it will work itself out.

We need another puck moving dman. I wonder if anyone is available in Nashville?

I expect a lot of rumours and phone calls but not a bunch of movement.

I always thought if you wanted to talk trade with Nashville, I would talk to them about the availability of Mike Fisher.

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On 2/22/2017 at 9:10 PM, HabsRuleForever said:

There is no way I want Galchenyuk moved. Whatever the problem is right now it will work itself out.

We need another puck moving dman. I wonder if anyone is available in Nashville?

I expect a lot of rumours and phone calls but not a bunch of movement.

This.  

If we move Galchenyuk right now, we lose.  There is absolutely no conceivable way we make a trade involving him where we end up with the better player going forward.  Unless you're prepared to make an Iginla for Nieuwendyk swap (and we are NOT the 1999 dallas stars) its the wrong move for this team for sure.

I also agree that our #1 biggest need is a top pairing puck moving dman.  I still dont quite know what MB was thinking: even if you consider Subban/Weber to be equals (they are very different types of players) we replaces one type of top pairing dman with another.  We cut off our left foot & replaced it with our right.  

And yes, I dont think there's going to be a huge splace come deadline day, although bergevin has surprised me before.

 

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If I were GM I would:

- Trade a 2nd rounder for Vanek
- Trade Emelin (whom they apparently covet) + whatever one prospect not named Sergachev to the Oilers for RNH.


This gives us:

Pacioretty - RNH/Galchenyuk - Radulov
Vanek - Galchenyuk/RNH - Gallagher
Lekhonen - Danault - McCarron
Byron - Plekanec - Shaw/Mitchell

Beaulieu - Weber
Markov - Petry
Nesterov - Pateryn/Redmond

I know you'd be taking a gamble not getting a top 4 dman. And maybe Bergevin still can, but most, if not all the deals out there for a true top 4 are going to hurt the rest of this team & I dont know if we can afford to do that.  I still think Beau has the skills to be a better 1st pairing partner to Weber than Emelin does. 

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On 22/02/2017 at 2:33 PM, eldag said:

Duchene would look great in our lineup Jeff but I think the price is just too high. Juulsen is really progressing and to many, was our best D man at the world juniors. He can move the puck and has poise in his own end. I also worry about giving McCarron away. Our team has gotten too small again and with Big Mac gone there is really no size left in the organization. (I discount Shaw because of his lack of discipline) I think McCarron will develop as a winger rather than a centre but either way, with Duchene we are just too small. I am also highly skeptical that Duchene is enough to make us a true contender and if that is the case, why do the deal? Why is Colorado looking to move him? He is still young and if he is that good why does he not figure into their future? Markov will be 39 next year and Emelin will probably get moved so we need to accumulate good defensive prospects. Why not let's see what CJ can do with this lineup for the remainder of the season before making any major roster alterations? Deadline deals often end up a bust and giving up a ton of future makes me nervous. Also, there is the bonus consideration that if the team misses the playoffs altogether we have a great opportunity of getting rid of Bergevin in the offseason and bringing in someone more competent to guide this team's fortunes .......

 

 

On 22/02/2017 at 6:15 PM, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

For everyone who wants us to drop every last prospect and pick we have into Colorado's lap, just for a 30 point producer, let me just add the following to the debate:

1. Marc Bergevin has only had the past 5 drafts to build up our prospect depth.  Out of those 5 drafts, there may be 2-3 prospects who can put in a regular shift at the NHL level.  So you're actually looking at a pool of between 10 or 15 bona fide prospects to pull from.  Out of those 10-15 you might have 5 that might interest Colorado.   Colorado wants potentially 2 of those 5 plus a 1st in this years draft.  That's a steep price for a guy on pace for 52 points.

2. We've already sent a young, dynamic right handed shot (Subban) to the Preds for an aging Weber.  Sending Colorado potentially our top 2 defensive prospects (Sergachev and/or Juulsen) creates a HUGE hole in our defensive futures.

3. I'm just going to put this in perspective for you with a nice heaping, helping of reality.  We are not trading for Gretzky here folks, we're not even getting Jonathan Teows in this deal.  We're getting Matt Duchene, who is the proud owner of a career .75 PPG average.  Not exactly elite.  Spending the outrageous price both Sakic and impatient fans want Bergevin to for the 96th highest scorer in the NHL, is not an efficient management of assets.  I could see it if you were acquiring Seguin, Malkin or Backstrom.  But I don't see the point in spending all of this on Duchene when you could have Eaves or Vanek, both of whom have more points than Duchene, at a much more cost effective rental price.

well thats the other side of the story. here's what i would say..

 

1. you are both voicing concerns over the price but I dont consider what i suggested to be much. even if they wanted both mccarron and juulsen....id try to get them to take scherbak instead....but I dont think it matters. I dont think any of these guys are going to be anything special. I saw juulsen at the WJC....he was ok, but its not like he was dominating or anything even close to that.  big mac....whats he going to be , a 3rd line winger?  

the point is duchene is a legit first line player with legit high level skill. we are missing that BADLY. does he make us win this year? no. and our forward corps is still weak even with him. but going forward, if you have duchene-chuck-danault as your 123 down the middle that is a good place to start rebuilding from. 

2.I wouldnt part with sergachev , is he actually DOES look like he will be something special.  We have to change our middling philosophy and get a little more aggressive on stacking this team.  we have a lot of B's and C's and precious few A's. we are not gonna win with a bunch of B and C players, adding Duchene should be considered step 1 in making this team great again.

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If your looking to go far in the playoffs, then why not take advantage of the situation in Detroit and go after Zetterberg?  Something like:

To Det: Paul Byron, Greg Pateryn, 1st in 2017

To MTL: Henrik Zetterberg

Now, I know you're asking yourself:  "Why would Detroit do this?"

Well, it takes a huge contract off their hands for starters and aleviates a ton of cap space.  It also affords them the opportunity to resign Thomas Vanek, rather than trade him.  It gives them younger, cap friendlier players for their roster next season and of course, a 1st to get another piece of the future.  I'd even throw in one of the 2nd rounders if need be.  But the 1st should do it.  He's a top 6, veteran forward with 120 points in 137 playoff games. He's also a veteran leader that could elevate the play of Danault and Gallagher in a secondary role.

The second move I would make would be with the Colorado Avalanche.  We need strength and depth on D, my next move is:

To COL: Dave Desharnais, 2nd round pick

To MTL: Francois Beauchemin

So, why would Colorado do this?  Well, first of all, they're going nowhere.  Secondly, they're trying to change the culture in the room.  Dave Desharnais would be the perfect compliment, (Not to mention mentor) to current San Antonio Rampage leading scorer; 5-6, 180, lbs. forward Rocco Grimaldi.  Desharnais on a 3rd line with Rocco Grimaldi on the right side and Blake Comeau on the left could bring about a resergence in Desharnais' game next season.  The 2nd rounder of course, gives them another building block for the future.  Throw in another 2nd in 2018 if you have to.  But 1 should do it.  MTL in return gets a veteran shot blocker who's blocked 375 shots in the past 2 seasons.  He's also registered 39 career points in 97 career playoff games.  

 

I would also call up Scherbak from St. John's.  Your revamped line up would be:

Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov

Zetterberg, Danault, Gallagher

Lehkonen, Plekanec, Shaw

Mitchell, McCarron, Scherbak

Beaulieu, Weber

Markov, Petry

Emelin, Beauchemin

 

Price

Montoya

Taxi Squad: Flynn, Andrighetto, Nesterov

 

You wanna go all in?  There it is.  You could also consider a top 6 option of:

Pacioretty, Zetterberg, Radulov

Galchenyuk, Danault, Gallagher

 

Zetterberg is 51 % in the faceoff circle.  He could be your top centre.

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

Beauchemin is 36 years old - we're getting older not younger

Right.  But what you're getting are proven winners.  You're getting a guy who can help on the backend.  But you're probably going to want more of a rental option on D...  Cody Franson would be good.  He'd be an upgrade to go in on that 3rd pairing as a right handed shot.  You could offer Buffalo the 2nd straight up for him.  You can see if BUF would take Desharnais as a throw in.  The home run hit would be acquiring Zetterberg.

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8 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Right.  But what you're getting are proven winners.  You're getting a guy who can help on the backend.  But you're probably going to want more of a rental option on D...  Cody Franson would be good.  He'd be an upgrade to go in on that 3rd pairing as a right handed shot.  You could offer Buffalo the 2nd straight up for him.  You can see if BUF would take Desharnais as a throw in.  The home run hit would be acquiring Zetterberg.

To me, there's no such thing as a "proven winner" being good just because their name is on the Cup. I want to know what that guy did to help win the Cup and I want to know if he's still the same player now that he used to be when that happened. Beauchemin is well past his prime, he's not a high quality player any more, and in any case, he's told Colorado's management that he would prefer not to be traded so that his kids don't have to move any more in his career. Similarly, Moen, Gill, Gionta, Gomez, and so on were "proven winners" when they came here but they didn't win anything while here. I'll take Erik Karlsson on my team any day over Zdeno Chara, even though Chara has a Cup and Karlsson doesn't. I'll take Ovechkin and McDavid over Lucic and Andrew Shaw, even though only the latter pair have been on a Cup-winning team.

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