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#27 Alex Galchenyuk 2016-17


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I think Galchenyuk is going through some growing pains and may need to spend time on the wing  so he can refocus. Gally has struggled lately but so have some others. The only line I would want to keep together is the Dannault, Shaw, Lehkonen line as they appear to be developing into a highly effective checking line. 

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8 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Back to the wing for Galchenyuk. His play has been just this side of terrible. So its no wonder that this coach see's the same thing the last coach did. He has a lot of growing up to do before he ever gets the first line center spot.

That whole debate was supposed to be gone with Therrien, so I'm disappointed. I'm with Ted here. I think Galchenyuk back to wing should have been an absolute last resort. If he's centering Pacioretty and Gallagher, the numbers have been pretty good. It's with Radulov that Galchenyuk has struggled, at least lately.

As for Eller, I definitely think having him would make a difference. He was supposed to replace Plekanec. They have around the same numbers right now, despite Plekanec averaging 3:00 more TOI and over 5 times more PP time than Eller. Danault has been admirable, but not much more productive (~10 more points) considering he is the only one of the three to see significant time on the top line this season. I'm not even suggesting Eller would be an offensive juggernaut. It may have been the difference between moving Desharnais or Plekanec sooner however. Starting this season with them, gave the illusion of center depth, an issue that should have been resolved by MB way before the trade deadline.

If Shaw sticks to (mostly) playing hockey and competing for pucks, rather than for a seat in the penalty box, as he has been doing lately, then I'm okay with his addition, but I still consider him a downgrade from Eller. Eller could disappear for stretches, but Shaw's rough patches are highly visible. I'd rather not notice a player that isn't producing, than notice him for the wrong reasons.

Galchenyuk's faceoffs aren't as much of an issue as believed. Here are some players with bad faceoff stats: Couture, Eichel, Malkin, Scheifele, and McDavid. All under 45% with more than 50 points this season. Perhaps those players would have a few more points with a better faceoff percentage, but it's not like they are struggling to produce because of it. Galchenyuk has been having problems because he has been on a leash for so long that he hasn't learned how to use his skills in moderation. Now that he's out from under Therrien's thumb, it's like he's making up for lost time. Therrien was too restrictive and Julien has been too lenient, perhaps not wanting to assert himself too strongly at first. There's a wide area in the middle, and CJ needs to help Galchenyuk find that "sweet spot", and keep on top of him to make sure he stays there, until Galchenyuk himself is accustomed to it and can self-discipline.

Regardless of what position Galchenyuk plays or is best suited for, it's past time to make a decision and stick with it. If he ends up finishing this season as a left winger, then he is permanently a left winger. No more center talk. Then MB has to be aggressive with finding 2 top 6 centers in the off season.

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^^ And that's the essence of the problem. If the Habs want to call Galchenyuk a LW, then they need to find two true top 6 centers because there are currently no other ones on the roster and no one who stands out in the minors as well. Hudon and McCarron are IMO both better suited to being wingers and neither has been given the opportunity to play in the top 6 at an NHL level yet, so we don't even know what they can do. So if Galchenyuk is a LW, that gives you overly stellar LW depth (Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Hudon, Byron, etc.). The first two are both first-line players, and Lehkonen could potentially be a 2nd line player. Radulov and Gallagher on the right, perhaps with McCarron and Shaw on that wing too, also yields very good depth. But down the middle, you are left with Danault (ideally your 3C), Plekanec (no better than a 3C at this time), Mitchell (4th liner), Ott (barely a 4th liner), and Flynn (barely a 4th liner). There are zero top 2C's there.

Now herein lies the problem: if the Habs decide Galchenyuk is not a center, then how do you acquire two top 2 centers? That's a pretty tall order, and it probably means trading a pretty good player to make that happen. MB has already stated he doesn't want to give up on Sergachev or "any of his top 4-5 prospects." So he's likely looking at trading from his positions of strength, which means he's looking at giving up a player like Petry, Gallagher, or... Galchenyuk. He made a boneheaded move to give up on Subban for an older player, and I can see MB doing something similar in giving up Galchenyuk to get a lesser or equal center like Duchene or RNH or Marleau or Huberdeau or so on. What would be easier? Just playing Galchenyuk at center and letting him learn the position. Too much is being made of his faceoff issues, when it's much less important than his ability to score goals and play with skill.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ And that's the essence of the problem. If the Habs want to call Galchenyuk a LW, then they need to find two true top 6 centers because there are currently no other ones on the roster and no one who stands out in the minors as well. Hudon and McCarron are IMO both better suited to being wingers and neither has been given the opportunity to play in the top 6 at an NHL level yet, so we don't even know what they can do. So if Galchenyuk is a LW, that gives you overly stellar LW depth (Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Hudon, Byron, etc.). The first two are both first-line players, and Lehkonen could potentially be a 2nd line player. Radulov and Gallagher on the right, perhaps with McCarron and Shaw on that wing too, also yields very good depth. But down the middle, you are left with Danault (ideally your 3C), Plekanec (no better than a 3C at this time), Mitchell (4th liner), Ott (barely a 4th liner), and Flynn (barely a 4th liner). There are zero top 2C's there.

Now herein lies the problem: if the Habs decide Galchenyuk is not a center, then how do you acquire two top 2 centers? That's a pretty tall order, and it probably means trading a pretty good player to make that happen. MB has already stated he doesn't want to give up on Sergachev or "any of his top 4-5 prospects." So he's likely looking at trading from his positions of strength, which means he's looking at giving up a player like Petry, Gallagher, or... Galchenyuk. He made a boneheaded move to give up on Subban for an older player, and I can see MB doing something similar in giving up Galchenyuk to get a lesser or equal center like Duchene or RNH or Marleau or Huberdeau or so on. What would be easier? Just playing Galchenyuk at center and letting him learn the position. Too much is being made of his faceoff issues, when it's much less important than his ability to score goals and play with skill.

That's my concern as well.

We could probably pick up a lesser 2nd line center using prospects not named Sergachev, but it doesn't look like we are getting a 1st line center without overpaying, or including Sergachev or Galchenyuk in a trade. (Unless we offer sheet someone, which never happens, and never works when it does, and ends up in contracts like Weber's :p).

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As the team is built right now Chucky just can't stay at center, we have to prep for the playoffs with 9 games to go and he is just not getting it done at center. he was good before he got hurt but since he got back it is not working. at wing he has less to worry about and can get some points on the board which will help him come contract time which is probably also on his mind. right now we need a strong finish to secure home ice and after 5 years or so in the league Chucky better be able to handle it.

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

As the team is built right now Chucky just can't stay at center, we have to prep for the playoffs with 9 games to go and he is just not getting it done at center. he was good before he got hurt but since he got back it is not working. at wing he has less to worry about and can get some points on the board which will help him come contract time which is probably also on his mind. right now we need a strong finish to secure home ice and after 5 years or so in the league Chucky better be able to handle it.

I like Julien's decision to finally play Galchenyuk on the wing (where I believe he should stay IMO)... Let's see what Shaw can do in that position.

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Honestly, I haven't minded his play at center EXCEPT for the fact that he and Radulov seem very very very out of synch lately.  Watching their zone entries of late they keep getting crossed up.  Putting each other offside, getting in each others way.  Maybe some time off center will help him, maybe it won't,  but I don't mind getting those 2 off of the same line.

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20 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ And that's the essence of the problem. If the Habs want to call Galchenyuk a LW, then they need to find two true top 6 centers because there are currently no other ones on the roster and no one who stands out in the minors as well. Hudon and McCarron are IMO both better suited to being wingers and neither has been given the opportunity to play in the top 6 at an NHL level yet, so we don't even know what they can do. So if Galchenyuk is a LW, that gives you overly stellar LW depth (Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Hudon, Byron, etc.). The first two are both first-line players, and Lehkonen could potentially be a 2nd line player. Radulov and Gallagher on the right, perhaps with McCarron and Shaw on that wing too, also yields very good depth. But down the middle, you are left with Danault (ideally your 3C), Plekanec (no better than a 3C at this time), Mitchell (4th liner), Ott (barely a 4th liner), and Flynn (barely a 4th liner). There are zero top 2C's there.

Now herein lies the problem: if the Habs decide Galchenyuk is not a center, then how do you acquire two top 2 centers? That's a pretty tall order, and it probably means trading a pretty good player to make that happen. MB has already stated he doesn't want to give up on Sergachev or "any of his top 4-5 prospects." So he's likely looking at trading from his positions of strength, which means he's looking at giving up a player like Petry, Gallagher, or... Galchenyuk. He made a boneheaded move to give up on Subban for an older player, and I can see MB doing something similar in giving up Galchenyuk to get a lesser or equal center like Duchene or RNH or Marleau or Huberdeau or so on. What would be easier? Just playing Galchenyuk at center and letting him learn the position. Too much is being made of his faceoff issues, when it's much less important than his ability to score goals and play with skill.

I don't believe this is a  lesser move, Galchenyk for Duchene, time to face facts he is not a centerman, never was never will be. And you ae right we are NOT strong down the middle, Adding Duchene would give us that centerman you can use in all situations.  I think you underestimate how good Duchene is just because he plays out  the west

^^^^^   A complete player, along the lines of a Steve Yzerman. 

I would do this trade in a heart beat. I would even add a pick if Colorado wanted more...

I would also trade Weber, Emelin for RNH and Darnell Nurse...
 

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16 hours ago, Ravadak said:

I don't believe this is a  lesser move, Galchenyk for Duchene, time to face facts he is not a centerman, never was never will be. And you ae right we are NOT strong down the middle, Adding Duchene would give us that centerman you can use in all situations.  I think you underestimate how good Duchene is just because he plays out  the west

^^^^^   A complete player, along the lines of a Steve Yzerman. 

I would do this trade in a heart beat. I would even add a pick if Colorado wanted more...

I would also trade Weber, Emelin for RNH and Darnell Nurse...
 

Though I agree Chucky is not our best option at center, I do not think trading him for Duchene replaces his value to the Habs as a winger. He still has the greatest potential (even more than Pacioretty) offensively at least. I would do Weber, Beaulieu and a draft-pick for RNH and Darnell Nurse... but it ain't going to happen.

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Alex will eventually get back to the center ice position and most likely be our number 1 for years. He just seems very immature at this point in his career. Last game was the first time I seen him score a goal and not act like it was his first goal ever. So someone is guiding him to be the player he needs to be. 

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2 hours ago, tony5775 said:

Alex will eventually get back to the center ice position and most likely be our number 1 for years. He just seems very immature at this point in his career. Last game was the first time I seen him score a goal and not act like it was his first goal ever. So someone is guiding him to be the player he needs to be. 

MT ?

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On 2017-03-23 at 7:06 PM, Ravadak said:

I don't believe this is a  lesser move, Galchenyk for Duchene, time to face facts he is not a centerman, never was never will be. And you ae right we are NOT strong down the middle, Adding Duchene would give us that centerman you can use in all situations.  I think you underestimate how good Duchene is just because he plays out  the west

^^^^^   A complete player, along the lines of a Steve Yzerman. 

I would do this trade in a heart beat. I would even add a pick if Colorado wanted more...

I would also trade Weber, Emelin for RNH and Darnell Nurse...
 

I've gone over the reasons Galchenyuk is more valuable than Duchene, but the crux of the key arguments is this:

1. Galchenyuk is a few years younger. The average forward tends to see his production peak around age 23-24, so Galchenyuk is at prime and Duchene is already slightly past his. Both players will be good for several years, but Galchenyuk is likely going to stay better for a bit longer. We have to remember in trades that we're not trading peak Galchenyuk for peak Duchene, we're trading two players at different points in their careers. The same can be said of the disastrous Subban for Weber trade. Those players are a few years apart, with D men tending to peak around 28 years old or so, so again, Subban being in his prime and Weber being just past. The 3-4 year difference when it's at vs. past prime can be a huge difference.

2. Contract... Galchenyuk could be signed to a long-term deal now. You would know what he's willing to accept before making or not making a trade. With Duchene, he's got two years left on his deal and you're then gambling that he'll be okay with staying here and for how much. If you let Duchene get to UFA status at 28-29 years old, chances are good someone will offer him 7 years at 7-7.5M a season, which is way too much. You can control your spending and guarantee length of asset more with Galchenyuk. As with Subban, if we were going to deal him away, I'd want to get an equally as young asset... I'd rather look at dealing Chucky for Huberdeau or Barkov or Filip Forsberg or Draisaitl if we were talking about flipping him for a different forward.

Would I take Duchene here? Absolutely. He'd definitely fill a hole here, but not at the expense of trading a more valuable asset in Galchenyuk and just creating another hole. We can't afford to trade away a guy who can be a 30-goal scorer for the next 5 years (barring injury again) when the team already can't generate enough goals.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I've gone over the reasons Galchenyuk is more valuable than Duchene, but the crux of the key arguments is this:

1. Galchenyuk is a few years younger. The average forward tends to see his production peak around age 23-24, so Galchenyuk is at prime and Duchene is already slightly past his. Both players will be good for several years, but Galchenyuk is likely going to stay better for a bit longer. We have to remember in trades that we're not trading peak Galchenyuk for peak Duchene, we're trading two players at different points in their careers. The same can be said of the disastrous Subban for Weber trade. Those players are a few years apart, with D men tending to peak around 28 years old or so, so again, Subban being in his prime and Weber being just past. The 3-4 year difference when it's at vs. past prime can be a huge difference.

2. Contract... Galchenyuk could be signed to a long-term deal now. You would know what he's willing to accept before making or not making a trade. With Duchene, he's got two years left on his deal and you're then gambling that he'll be okay with staying here and for how much. If you let Duchene get to UFA status at 28-29 years old, chances are good someone will offer him 7 years at 7-7.5M a season, which is way too much. You can control your spending and guarantee length of asset more with Galchenyuk. As with Subban, if we were going to deal him away, I'd want to get an equally as young asset... I'd rather look at dealing Chucky for Huberdeau or Barkov or Filip Forsberg or Draisaitl if we were talking about flipping him for a different forward.

Would I take Duchene here? Absolutely. He'd definitely fill a hole here, but not at the expense of trading a more valuable asset in Galchenyuk and just creating another hole. We can't afford to trade away a guy who can be a 30-goal scorer for the next 5 years (barring injury again) when the team already can't generate enough goals.

Some very valid points, I agree on the Subban and Eller deals. both those players would be our best positional players if they were still on our team right now.   A lot can happen in 2 or 3 years with proper management ask the leafs. Duchene only just turned 26. it not like he is turning 30, We need a centerman no ifs ands or butts. Duchene is the only option I see out there and I have little doubt he would thrive in Montreal. You have to give to get and our wings are strong on the left side and the right. I really don't believe we would miss Galchenyk.

I don't think that trade would be like the Subban or Eller deals, they were therrrien trades -----

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  • 2 weeks later...

Saw some nice work from Chucky last night. Still need to find the right fit for him out there. Saw a few great passes out there that unfortunately his linemates ( particularly Shaw) didn't expect, or couldn't handle. If we struggle a bit again going forward, I think CJ will find a match for him that works. Tough to do when the other top lines are clicking right now. Good problem to have.

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7 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

The invisible man among the top 6 forwards. Overshadowed by even waived Byron and rookie Lehkonen now.

You're being led astray by on-ice shooting and save percentages. Byron's are inflated, Galchenyuk's aren't. Despite his slump, Galchenyuk is still producing more 5-on-5 scoring chances than Byron. Byron's just getting the luck. Is he having a good run of things right now? Nope. But if you honestly think Paul Byron is going to be more important to the team going forward than Galchenyuk, I don't know what to tell you.

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On 3/24/2017 at 5:12 PM, BigTed3 said:

Would I take Duchene here? Absolutely. He'd definitely fill a hole here, but not at the expense of trading a more valuable asset in Galchenyuk and just creating another hole. We can't afford to trade away a guy who can be a 30-goal scorer for the next 5 years (barring injury again) when the team already can't generate enough goals.

This. And i mean that was the whole thing with Weber. I've wanted weber on my team for years - but not at the expense of our core. If Bergevin could have gotten him for Emelin+Eller +1st or something, we'd all be singing his praises, contract be damned.  but instead we lost our best defensman since chelios and while i think Weber has done pretty well here, there's no doubting that unless MB plans to move him (and can get value) in a couple of years, we're going to be really regretting this move down the road.

Same with Galchenyuk for a guy like Duchene.  Id love to have MD on my roster but not at the expense of Galcheyuk.   Like Ted, Id only consider moving AG27 if we could get a similar replacement, or if we could somehow upgrade at the same position. Id think long and hard for a Galchenyuk for Tavares swap even though many of the concerns ted mentions above would be the same for JT, you'd be getting a better all-round player imho. 

That said, Id really really like to give AG and CJ a bit of time to work together.  They've been talking a lot & i have no doubt that CJ sees AG as part of his core. 

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Galchenyuk is the real deal.  He's just mired in a funk a bit longer than we'd all like. Everyone's different, but things like this are always magnified because of the extreme scrutiny under which we "knowledgeable" fans place the players.  

Not sure what it is exactly, but if anyone can find a way to get this star going again (besides himself), it's Coach Julien.  

I keep coming back to the "planets aligning" metaphor, but can you imagine if Chucky started getting hot right as the playoffs were beginning?  We have good team chemistry, a great system, a highly competent and experienced coach, the best goalie in the world, and the rest of the players starting to up their games (well, most of them....there's always going to be the Kings and the Nesterovs to deal with).  If Alex Galchenyuk had a career playoff run, the Habs would probably be unstoppable.  

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1 hour ago, vegasrick said:

Galchenyuk is the real deal.  He's just mired in a funk a bit longer than we'd all like. Everyone's different, but things like this are always magnified because of the extreme scrutiny under which we "knowledgeable" fans place the players.  

Not sure what it is exactly, but if anyone can find a way to get this star going again (besides himself), it's Coach Julien.  

I keep coming back to the "planets aligning" metaphor, but can you imagine if Chucky started getting hot right as the playoffs were beginning?  We have good team chemistry, a great system, a highly competent and experienced coach, the best goalie in the world, and the rest of the players starting to up their games (well, most of them....there's always going to be the Kings and the Nesterovs to deal with).  If Alex Galchenyuk had a career playoff run, the Habs would probably be unstoppable.  

Galchenyuk hasn't had a bad season. He was near the top of the league before his injury took a toll on him, and despite his injury and despite the fact he's been tossed all around the line-up, he's 3rd on the team in points and 2nd on the team in points per game. He's a positive Corsi player and a positive scoring chance player. Frankly, I think too much is being made of his deficiencies and not enough made of the fact he's an elite skill player on a team that has very few true scorers.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Galchenyuk hasn't had a bad season. He was near the top of the league before his injury took a toll on him, and despite his injury and despite the fact he's been tossed all around the line-up, he's 3rd on the team in points and 2nd on the team in points per game. He's a positive Corsi player and a positive scoring chance player. Frankly, I think too much is being made of his deficiencies and not enough made of the fact he's an elite skill player on a team that has very few true scorers.

Agreed. 

And honestly, id be shocked if CJ didnt believe so too.  The thing about CJ is that he's not a coach who is quick to judge/react. I suspect he has Galchenyuk playing the position he is and the minutes he is, for a reason.  I think its probably more about reading something in Galchenyuk's confidence and trying to get him feeling looser, more comfortable.  Maybe he feels like Chuck needs to work on some stuff too - but i am almost positive that CJ is putting AG in a position that he feels will benefit him most, going forward. 

I still wouldnt be surprised to see Chuck back at centre these playoffs but either way i am confident Julien will do his best to get Galchneyuk believing in himself again. I think Therrien may have done a lot more harm with some of our younger players than some of us realize. 

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54 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Agreed. 

And honestly, id be shocked if CJ didnt believe so too.  The thing about CJ is that he's not a coach who is quick to judge/react. I suspect he has Galchenyuk playing the position he is and the minutes he is, for a reason.  I think its probably more about reading something in Galchenyuk's confidence and trying to get him feeling looser, more comfortable.  Maybe he feels like Chuck needs to work on some stuff too - but i am almost positive that CJ is putting AG in a position that he feels will benefit him most, going forward. 

I still wouldnt be surprised to see Chuck back at centre these playoffs but either way i am confident Julien will do his best to get Galchneyuk believing in himself again. I think Therrien may have done a lot more harm with some of our younger players than some of us realize. 

I agree with most of what you say, but specifically disagree with the last sentence: it was very clear that Therrien was a terrible coach who did a lot of damage to the younger players! Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn, Sekac, Thomas, Andrighetto, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Scherbak, McCarron, Eller, Bournival, DLR, DSP, etc... how many young guys really reached expectations or fulfilled maximum potential under Therrien? Very few. Most were bashed in the media, given limited time to play behind scrubs with very little talent (Murray, Bouillon, Mike Brown, Farnham, etc. to name a few), and were press-boxed for minor mistakes. Therrien was simply put an awful coach for developing players, and we're paying for it now. CJ was the best thing MB has done this season, but one has to wonder how much long-lasting damage Therrien (and by virtue of keeping him, Bergevin too) have done to the Habs organization.

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

Agreed. 

And honestly, id be shocked if CJ didnt believe so too.  The thing about CJ is that he's not a coach who is quick to judge/react. I suspect he has Galchenyuk playing the position he is and the minutes he is, for a reason.  I think its probably more about reading something in Galchenyuk's confidence and trying to get him feeling looser, more comfortable.  Maybe he feels like Chuck needs to work on some stuff too - but i am almost positive that CJ is putting AG in a position that he feels will benefit him most, going forward. 

I still wouldnt be surprised to see Chuck back at centre these playoffs but either way i am confident Julien will do his best to get Galchneyuk believing in himself again. I think Therrien may have done a lot more harm with some of our younger players than some of us realize. 

 

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I agree with most of what you say, but specifically disagree with the last sentence: it was very clear that Therrien was a terrible coach who did a lot of damage to the younger players! Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn, Sekac, Thomas, Andrighetto, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Scherbak, McCarron, Eller, Bournival, DLR, DSP, etc... how many young guys really reached expectations or fulfilled maximum potential under Therrien? Very few. Most were bashed in the media, given limited time to play behind scrubs with very little talent (Murray, Bouillon, Mike Brown, Farnham, etc. to name a few), and were press-boxed for minor mistakes. Therrien was simply put an awful coach for developing players, and we're paying for it now. CJ was the best thing MB has done this season, but one has to wonder how much long-lasting damage Therrien (and by virtue of keeping him, Bergevin too) have done to the Habs organization.

Isn't that what Maas said in his last sentence?

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I heard a good point regarding Gally on one of the broadcasts that may explain some of his problems. They noted he had only playe one year at center (his last year of junior) in his career and the idea  of basing his ability of being  an NHL centre on one year at that position in junior may be a stretch. His point production in junior would have been high whether at centre or on the wing as he was a dominant player in junior, but at the NHL level he clearly looks more comfortable on the wing and learning how to play centre in the big leagues is not an easy task. He looks more comfortable on the wing with Shaw and Shaw appears to be handling the change with ease.

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