Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

Marc Bergevin and staff 2016-17


habs_93
 Share

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 And now MB goes out and gets a 5th left-handed D man to go with only two righties.

FWIW, do we not still have Zach Redmond? 

I have to believe MB has more trades in mind, right now our blueline cannot be ideal for Julien to work with... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest disappointment to come out of today is the evidence that MB has no plan whatsoever. None. When he took over the team, he told everyone he had a five-year plan, that he wanted to add grit and character, and that he wanted to build through the draft. Well here we are five years later and I'm more confused than ever about what he's trying to do with the team. One moment he's switched course and decided skill has value, the next he's trading skill away for character and experience, and then he goes out and focuses on size and sandpaper. But there isn't one clear direction.

His biggest mistake, as we all know, was dumping a PK Subban in his prime, for a 31 year-old past-his-prime defenceman. This wasn't just a swap of 3rd-pairing defencemen, like Pateryn for Benn, where you can debate whether the trade was good or bad but it ultimately plays a minor role in the team's success. This was a deal to trade the team's best position player for a new face of the D corps, a new leader, and a new #1 defenceman. That new player then becomes the focus of where you want to bring this team. So after the Subban and Eller trades, we now find ourselves down two of our biggest clutch performers still in the primes of their careers and we find ourselves with a core of players that are either close to the end of their careers (Markov, Plekanec) or close to being over the hill and no longer counted on to play big roles (Weber, Radulov) or close to being due big raises that could handicap the team's salary cap (Price, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk). The direction that MB brought the team in the past year was to say the timeframe for winning was this year or next. Not in three years, not in five years. His window was now.

So fast-forward to today. The team's two biggest needs were a scoring forward for the top 6 and a left-handed defenceman for the top 4. Now one could say those things are hard to come by, but Duchene and Landeskog and RNH and Vrbata and Filppula and Vanek were all available for the right price. Some of those players were traded for reasonable returns. Instead, Bergevin went out after size and grit. Sure, you don't want all your players to be small and  get manhandled on the ice, but there also needs to be some amount of compromise on getting skill as well. We've seen time and again that filling your line-up with size or toughness that doesn't have much talent never really pans out. Parros. Laraque. Mike Brown. Bobby Farnham. Doug Murray. These players haven't really been assets to us in the least. It's hard to envision the guys we collected today being players who address our weaknesses, being that we're a team that just can't score goals. What team goals a full calendar month with only 4 forwards picking up goals? I've honestly never heard of such of a lack of scoring depth on a squad before, and yet MB didn't feel the need to address that. He could have. He had the picks to make it happen and go out and get a Vanek or a Drew Stafford or a Filppula or so on. But instead, he chose to focus on beefing up his 4th line, and the fact is that 4th lines don't win you Cups.

So I sit here today and I wonder what Marc Bergevin's plan is. If he thinks he's got the team to win now, then he should have been more willing to part with futures to add scoring and talent to his line-up. It doesn't do us much good to have Scherbak and Hudon and Juulsen here in three years if Price and Pacioretty and Weber and Radulov and Markov are all gone or past their prime. And if MB doesn't think he can win now, well then why the need to give up draft picks for bottom 3 forwards? If we re-sign King, we owe LA a 3rd round pick, which is a very steep price to pay for a 4th liner. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. MB did a nice job freeing up cap space in the DD trade, he had the cap room and the need and the green light to fill the team's needs for a run at a Cup, and he passed. So now what? Are we writing this year off? When exactly does Bergevin think we'll be competitive for a Cup run? His original plan was for that time to be now, but his actions today don't say that at all. His actions today say he's okay with being a mediocre team that's only goal is to make the playoffs. His actions today say he doesn't really have a plan in place for the future either. Not that any one trade is the end of the world, but just a really disappointing day to see what lack of vision Bergevin has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The biggest disappointment to come out of today is the evidence that MB has no plan whatsoever. None. When he took over the team, he told everyone he had a five-year plan, that he wanted to add grit and character, and that he wanted to build through the draft. Well here we are five years later and I'm more confused than ever about what he's trying to do with the team. One moment he's switched course and decided skill has value, the next he's trading skill away for character and experience, and then he goes out and focuses on size and sandpaper. But there isn't one clear direction.

His biggest mistake, as we all know, was dumping a PK Subban in his prime, for a 31 year-old past-his-prime defenceman. This wasn't just a swap of 3rd-pairing defencemen, like Pateryn for Benn, where you can debate whether the trade was good or bad but it ultimately plays a minor role in the team's success. This was a deal to trade the team's best position player for a new face of the D corps, a new leader, and a new #1 defenceman. That new player then becomes the focus of where you want to bring this team. So after the Subban and Eller trades, we now find ourselves down two of our biggest clutch performers still in the primes of their careers and we find ourselves with a core of players that are either close to the end of their careers (Markov, Plekanec) or close to being over the hill and no longer counted on to play big roles (Weber, Radulov) or close to being due big raises that could handicap the team's salary cap (Price, Pacioretty, Galchenyuk). The direction that MB brought the team in the past year was to say the timeframe for winning was this year or next. Not in three years, not in five years. His window was now.

So fast-forward to today. The team's two biggest needs were a scoring forward for the top 6 and a left-handed defenceman for the top 4. Now one could say those things are hard to come by, but Duchene and Landeskog and RNH and Vrbata and Filppula and Vanek were all available for the right price. Some of those players were traded for reasonable returns. Instead, Bergevin went out after size and grit. Sure, you don't want all your players to be small and  get manhandled on the ice, but there also needs to be some amount of compromise on getting skill as well. We've seen time and again that filling your line-up with size or toughness that doesn't have much talent never really pans out. Parros. Laraque. Mike Brown. Bobby Farnham. Doug Murray. These players haven't really been assets to us in the least. It's hard to envision the guys we collected today being players who address our weaknesses, being that we're a team that just can't score goals. What team goals a full calendar month with only 4 forwards picking up goals? I've honestly never heard of such of a lack of scoring depth on a squad before, and yet MB didn't feel the need to address that. He could have. He had the picks to make it happen and go out and get a Vanek or a Drew Stafford or a Filppula or so on. But instead, he chose to focus on beefing up his 4th line, and the fact is that 4th lines don't win you Cups.

So I sit here today and I wonder what Marc Bergevin's plan is. If he thinks he's got the team to win now, then he should have been more willing to part with futures to add scoring and talent to his line-up. It doesn't do us much good to have Scherbak and Hudon and Juulsen here in three years if Price and Pacioretty and Weber and Radulov and Markov are all gone or past their prime. And if MB doesn't think he can win now, well then why the need to give up draft picks for bottom 3 forwards? If we re-sign King, we owe LA a 3rd round pick, which is a very steep price to pay for a 4th liner. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. MB did a nice job freeing up cap space in the DD trade, he had the cap room and the need and the green light to fill the team's needs for a run at a Cup, and he passed. So now what? Are we writing this year off? When exactly does Bergevin think we'll be competitive for a Cup run? His original plan was for that time to be now, but his actions today don't say that at all. His actions today say he's okay with being a mediocre team that's only goal is to make the playoffs. His actions today say he doesn't really have a plan in place for the future either. Not that any one trade is the end of the world, but just a really disappointing day to see what lack of vision Bergevin has.

 

heres what it is.

 

bergevin was really that dumb to think therrien actually knew what he was talking about, or agreed with him, that the problem was eller and subban. he went and did exactly what either he (coach) or they (the both of them ) thought were really great moves that were going to solve the problems on this team.

as it turns out, they were enormously wrong, and those were two of the stupidest moves ever made in the history of this franchise, which has some real stupid moves in its history. 

and now hes sitting there going oh god.....this team stinks. and i screwed up, and im gonna get fired.  he had to axe therrien or it was both of them at the end of the year. 

now he is stuck with a mess on his hands. this team was built to "win now" and we arent winning squat now. the future looks horrible. do i think he tried to get duchene? very much so. i think colorado is playing silly buggers and was trying to get a ludicrous package.and now thats it. so he does the only thing left that he knows how to do: load up on plugs, assume we will make the playoffs, and say heyyyyy guys, stars dont grow on trees, its not playstation, and pray he gets one more year.

i simply cannot wait until this guy is gone, and we do the housecleaning required, so i can be a 100% fan again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the ask on Vanek was too high to go through that experience again and I think calling up Hudon at playoff time may be the smarter move for that. Filpula may be allergic to Canadian taxes after rejecting a trade to Toronto. I like the fact we have saved  our assets and set our team up for the playoffs. The future is a little less clear but Bergy has done a great job at attracting KHL players who want to come to Montreal and we may need to make some room but do have Markov's salary coming off the books. I like all these moves short term as they will play to Julien's defence first focus and make us hard to play against in the playoffs. The future may be a little less predictable if we continue to get no secondary scoring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

“Scoring is at a premium and you like to add scoring, but it’s not out there and if it ever was the price was … you don’t get something without giving up anything and then you’re going sideways,” Bergevin said. “So you try to move forward and you don’t want to hurt your team. So we feel comfortable with what we have.”

Really?

Torrey Mitchell hasn’t scored in 37 games; Phillip Danault and Artturi Lehkonen haven’t scored in 16; Tomas Plekanec and Brian Flynn in 15; Paul Byron in 13 and Brendan Gallagher in 10. 

“We had lines producing at all levels for a while and I know of late it hasn’t been the case,” Bergevin said. “But I feel comfortable our guys are getting more confidence as we move forward that will be able to chip in. I always say you could play with a bad foot, bad shoulder. But if you play with no confidence, it’s hard to play.”

Bergevin believes his team would have made the playoff last season if Price didn’t get hurt and he’s betting heavily on his goalie now, along with new head coach Claude Julien.

Unfortunately, neither of them can score.

“I honestly believe you have Carey Price, you get in the playoffs …,” Bergevin said, failing to complete the sentence. “Last year, Pittsburgh in November they were willing to sell the team, fire the coach – which they did.”

And the Penguins did win the Stanley Cup — with Phil Kessel, Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin leading the way.

But have no fear Canadiens fans, you now have Ott, Martinsen and King.

Bergevin was asked how those three can help the Canadiens score more goals.

“Dwight King has played in L.A.,” Bergevin said. “He’s a player who can move up and down the lineup. He’s played with (Anze) Kopitar at times this year. He’s won two Stanley Cups. I’m sure he could chip in offensively. But again, we need all our guys that had success earlier in the year to go back and start chipping in offensively like they did and we’ll be in good shape.”

OK.

But what if they don’t?

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/stu-cowan-canadiens-gm-bergevin-doesnt-give-his-team-much-help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate the fact that we did not manage to get some real long term help up front on the scoring front but the price being asked for good players was way too high. that being said I have been saying for a couple of years that we need a good winger or two if we can't get a solid center,and I don't mean rentals either. at least we did not lose Chucky or Sergachev for some old pylon! this season is tough because Pleky fell off a cliff closely followed by Gallagher who is 10 goals or so shy of what we need out of him so far. the scoring forwards will have to come in the off season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

I hate the fact that we did not manage to get some real long term help up front on the scoring front but the price being asked for good players was way too high. that being said I have been saying for a couple of years that we need a good winger or two if we can't get a solid center,and I don't mean rentals either. at least we did not lose Chucky or Sergachev for some old pylon! this season is tough because Pleky fell off a cliff closely followed by Gallagher who is 10 goals or so shy of what we need out of him so far. the scoring forwards will have to come in the off season.

Yeah, I think so as well. Long-term help is usually not available at the trade deadline anyway, so you're loading up on spare parts or pending UFAs as rentals. I'm not at all surprised that basically none of the moves from yesterday were noteworthy, there simply wasn't much out there to begin with. Shattenkirk wasn't a fit here and I'm actually okay with not adding players like Vanek, Filppula, Parenteau, Stafford, Burrows, Stalberg, Iginla, Boyle or Hanzal, just because some of those guys were actually quite pricey and most of them wouldn't have helped us anyway IMO. Vrbata would have been an okay addition I think, but considering he wasn't moved, I'm guessing the asking price was simply too high. Same goes for Duchene and especially RNH, I mean why would the Oilers trade him now when they're actually having a good chance of making the playoffs for the first time in forever? It's not like he's been a healthy scratch or something, so you'd absolutely have to blow them away with a deal that's likely going to weaken us elsewhere and I don't think RNH is the player I'd be willing to do that for. It's also not just MB, nobody made major moves this year, which goes to show what kind of market this was. Just look at TSN's trade bait list, every single player that I've been remotely interested in ultimately wasn't traded: http://www.tsn.ca/tsn-hockey-s-trade-bait-list-1.203546

Either way, unless Carey Price plays absolutely lights-out and manages to carry this team, we're certainly not going to win the Cup this year. And that's not going to change next season, unless drastic changes are being made in the summer.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with us not winning a cup I for one never felt we were that close. we have some talent on this team but we just have not sucked hard enough for long enough to get all the juicy draft picks it takes to build a superstar filled team. look at Detroit they have been the masters of making the best out of low draft picks but the last few years it has been slowly catching up with them and this year they will not make the playoffs. if we can keep our core and get really lucky with another Radulov type signing in the off season we will be a bit closer next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, jeff33 said:

 

heres what it is.

 

bergevin was really that dumb to think therrien actually knew what he was talking about, or agreed with him, that the problem was eller and subban. he went and did exactly what either he (coach) or they (the both of them ) thought were really great moves that were going to solve the problems on this team.

as it turns out, they were enormously wrong, and those were two of the stupidest moves ever made in the history of this franchise, which has some real stupid moves in its history. 

and now hes sitting there going oh god.....this team stinks. and i screwed up, and im gonna get fired.  he had to axe therrien or it was both of them at the end of the year. 

now he is stuck with a mess on his hands. this team was built to "win now" and we arent winning squat now. the future looks horrible. do i think he tried to get duchene? very much so. i think colorado is playing silly buggers and was trying to get a ludicrous package.and now thats it. so he does the only thing left that he knows how to do: load up on plugs, assume we will make the playoffs, and say heyyyyy guys, stars dont grow on trees, its not playstation, and pray he gets one more year.

i simply cannot wait until this guy is gone, and we do the housecleaning required, so i can be a 100% fan again

Unfortunately Ted and Jeff have covered it all quite succinctly .... as Bergevin said in his presser yesterday when asked about his window of opportunity: "I don't believe in that"

My thought at the time was either he is stupid or arrogant or both .... I cannot wait for this guy to be gone! He .. like his foxhole buddy Michel Terrible, has no clue and is hopelessly outmatched by his peers. We will not go anywhere as a franchise until we have a competent new direction set by a new general manager.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what would a new GM do? just wondering? it seems to me we are in fair shape, sure mistakes have been made but that happens in every city every year. don't see where our GM has been hopelessly outmatched. did he get us the mystical top 6 forward this trade deadline? no but he did not sell the farm for junk either. did he hang on to MT too long? yes he did but then he pulled the trigger on a very good coach. he may be arrogant but it is unfair to call him stupid as we don't have all the info to know what causes him to make the moves he makes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

So what would a new GM do? just wondering? it seems to me we are in fair shape, sure mistakes have been made but that happens in every city every year. don't see where our GM has been hopelessly outmatched. did he get us the mystical top 6 forward this trade deadline? no but he did not sell the farm for junk either. did he hang on to MT too long? yes he did but then he pulled the trigger on a very good coach. he may be arrogant but it is unfair to call him stupid as we don't have all the info to know what causes him to make the moves he makes.

Fair enough .... I was not calling him stupid or arrogant per se .... just giving my thoughts. We have different views of where the team is obviously. Either you believe the team is ready to challenge for the Cup or being a contender this year is not part of your criteria for judging the effectiveness of this GM. You also believe the Subban for Weber transaction was a defensible move to make I suppose as well as some of the other moves undertaken. I believe that after the time he has been here and having taken over a team that had a good young core which he inherited, he should be held to account for the fact that the team appears to have backslid and is in no way ready to challenge for the Cup in the foreseeable future. The passage of time will ultimately decide who has an accurate handle on where this team stands now .....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The good young core is the issue I have with some of the arguments on here. I never felt it was strong enough, Price was of course the center part followed by Subban and Patches. Chucky is not quite at the level of those three as he has not strung one full season of greatness together yet and for sure that is not all his fault, and as for Gallagher he is not a star player in my mind just a very good one. as far as the team backsliding it is true that last year was a disaster after Price got hurt and we have slipped a bit this season we have been strong at all other times since he has been our GM. I feel we should have had a coaching change at the end of last season but oddly if we had done that we would not have Jullien now. there was no one available or at least that we heard was available at this trade deadline that would have made us much  better at least not without giving up more than we could afford to give up. in my mind Subban is a better player than Webber, it is tough to know how much as they are so different, so to somehow judge my point of view by stating that I find the move defensible is kind of rich! I never felt this team was very close to a cup I have felt for years we need a big offensive center and at least one more real deal scoring winger,until we get those things here we will always be a non contender.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

The good young core is the issue I have with some of the arguments on here. I never felt it was strong enough, Price was of course the center part followed by Subban and Patches. Chucky is not quite at the level of those three as he has not strung one full season of greatness together yet and for sure that is not all his fault, and as for Gallagher he is not a star player in my mind just a very good one. as far as the team backsliding it is true that last year was a disaster after Price got hurt and we have slipped a bit this season we have been strong at all other times since he has been our GM. I feel we should have had a coaching change at the end of last season but oddly if we had done that we would not have Jullien now. there was no one available or at least that we heard was available at this trade deadline that would have made us much  better at least not without giving up more than we could afford to give up. in my mind Subban is a better player than Webber, it is tough to know how much as they are so different, so to somehow judge my point of view by stating that I find the move defensible is kind of rich! I never felt this team was very close to a cup I have felt for years we need a big offensive center and at least one more real deal scoring winger,until we get those things here we will always be a non contender.

This.

Being a non contender and the attitude of mediocrity seems to emanate from MB himself as I see it; other than being our GM, he certainly seems to be a skilled politician due to his ability to skirt real questions by giving often cryptic answers. This in my opinion is part of the reason we are not Cup ready.

The Habs need to win the Cup is NOW. The whole attitude and thinking culture at the Habs top level has to change with a sound commitment to make the Stanley Cup our number one goal and priority each and every season!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

So he comes to work every day thinking I want to be mediocre today? pretty sure he like all the guy's he works with want to win so they can feel good about themselves much like the rest of us would.

Perhaps he doesn`t think that way but it certainly comes across that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bergevin is giving us a good chance to succeed by adding players that will be tough to play against without mortgaging the future (sorry if it sounds like the party line, but I do think he has been pretty successful). I am quite surprised he landed Davidson for Desharnais. (Desharnais' play had made him almost impossible to move in my opinion and what appears to be one of the saving graces for DD was his team first attitude and ability to do what was asked under adverse conditions) Many Oiler media types were high on the kid and most now feel a little fleeced by this deal. The only consolation is most feel they would have lost Davidson in the expansion draft. If Carey returns to form and our secondary scoring returns we are in good shape. Julien's acquisition may be the best move of all in retrospect as it appears the team had run its course under Therrien. The team appears re-energised under Julien and the rentals (other than Martenson) have all got playoff or cup experience. Cap space may be a bit of a problem next year, but this team appears to match up well with other teams in the east with the exception of the Caps. The Habs have significantly improved defensively over the past 4 days with the addition of Benn, King and Davidson. As for beating the Caps, they usually manage to effectively fold in the playoffs and hopefully continue  that trend again this year. I would be surprised if any of the recent acquisitions return other than Benn and Davidson and expect to see some of our younger prospects begin to fill some of these roles next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...