The Trade Deadline

[Habs=stanleycup]

14 minutes ago, fansince1948 said:

As an old know nothing fart, I stated at the beginning of last year I didn't like the way they were winning,,, it was all Price and this year said the same thing, it was all Price again. They either have to get rid of some of the non-effective scorers like Plekanec, Desharnais & Flynn or change the system, which means Therrien. Losing to the last place team then taken to overtime by the 2nd worst team leaves no impression they are anywhere near Stanley Cup contenders. They don't seem to get up the energy nor determination to beat the weak teams & get outplayed by the better ones. Sometimes even Price looks disinterested and the pressure of not being able to win games unless he keeps the goals against down to 2 or less, even against the worst teams, has to be super stressful & fatiguing.
My choice...... change the system, it ain't working.......MHO, the way I see it....

[Regis22]

If PK couldn't make a go of it here then Gostisbehere wouldn't survive either

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/shayne-gostisbehere/

 

Talent Analysis

Gostisbehere is an unconventional defenseman who likes to participate in the offensive end and use his skating ability and instincts to advantage. A speedy defenseman, Gostisbehere still needs to improve the defensive aspect of his game.

Future

Gostisbehere burst onto the scene for the Flyers in 2015-16, giving the team a jolt of offense from the back line and eventually averaging over 20 minutes of ice time during the team's late run to a playoff spot. His unorthodox style and lack of a traditional defending style are concerns but he puts constant pressure on the opposition and has exceptional creativity and anticipatory skills on the offensive end

Read more at http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/shayne-gostisbehere/#jQ5jTi3XgR5WC85M.99

 

 

[BigTed3]

Have to figure the likelihood of a big trade in the next week has gone down substantially now that Julien has been hired. MB will likely feel like he's made a move to change momentum and atmosphere already, so there is less pressure to make a trade. He also may want to give CJ some time to evaluate what he has and what he wants to add. And lastly, the longer you wait, the more cap space you get to add...

[RicochetII]

I'd like to see some term moves with the expansion draft in mind. 

Exposed: Byron, Shaw, Mitchell, Emelin, and Montoya. (Carr and Pateryn are 10 games or less from being eligible as well.)
Protected: Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Danault, Radulov*, Weber, Petry, Beaulieu, and Price.
*I'm including Radulov as protected because I would prefer to have him re-signed. Any time you let a player go to free agency there is the risk that they choose another offer.

I'm not suggesting specific trade details here, but as examples of player movements:
Protected D (Beaulieu) for Protected F (Duschene) AND Prospects/Picks for Protected D (Shattenkirk)
Protected F (Gallagher) for Protected D (Fowler)
Ineligible/Unprotected players (Lehkonen, Byron, Prospects and Picks) for Protected F (RNH or Eberle)
Only go for rentals (Hainsey) and use the other spot to protect Shaw or Byron.

We can also trade any "Exposed" players. We should keep Mitchell and Montoya regardless, so we only have to ensure we have 1 more F and 1 D exposed that is under contract through 2018. If we were to trade Emelin, for example, we can play Pateryn for 10 games and he takes that Exposed D spot.

I just mentioned some players as examples, but depending on what other teams do, there could be a number of players available that a team would rather move cheap than lose for nothing. Could be a good time to cash in some prospects/picks for "ready now" roster upgrades.

Imho, we need to move some salary and upgrade our offense, regardless of what Julien does with the team. Players like Byron, Lehkonen, and Danault could be bumped down the lineup in favor of someone more skilled/experienced, while it would be nice to have a younger top 4 defenseman to take some of Markov's workload, so he doesn't end up too worn down for the playoffs.

I'm not completely against a pure rental, but I would rather see a longer term deal made first, and a rental as needed if it creates a hole in the roster.

[Habs=stanleycup]

7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Have to figure the likelihood of a big trade in the next week has gone down substantially now that Julien has been hired. MB will likely feel like he's made a move to change momentum and atmosphere already, so there is less pressure to make a trade. He also may want to give CJ some time to evaluate what he has and what he wants to add. And lastly, the longer you wait, the more cap space you get to add...

That's my guess as well.

[H_T_L]

MB indicated he's not trading any top prospects and mentioned there are no #1 Centers out there available. Putting 2 and 2 together that sounds like we won't be in on Duchene. My guess is that we do something like picking up a Vanek for a 3rd rounder.

[vegasrick]

15 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

MB indicated he's not trading any top prospects and mentioned there are no #1 Centers out there available. Putting 2 and 2 together that sounds like we won't be in on Duchene. My guess is that we do something like picking up a Vanek for a 3rd rounder.

While Duchene would probably have been a great acquisition, this is good news in two regards.  First, I like our top prospects, and think they can be developed to be consistent regulars.  I don't want to see another Ryan McDonough happen.  And second, if we can get a rental like a Vanek on the cheap, we may finally be able to count on him being used correctly and delivering the goods when we need them the most.  

[habs1952]

50 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

MB indicated he's not trading any top prospects and mentioned there are no #1 Centers out there available. Putting 2 and 2 together that sounds like we won't be in on Duchene. My guess is that we do something like picking up a Vanek for a 3rd rounder.

We've been misled before.

[maas_art]

19 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Have to figure the likelihood of a big trade in the next week has gone down substantially now that Julien has been hired. MB will likely feel like he's made a move to change momentum and atmosphere already, so there is less pressure to make a trade. He also may want to give CJ some time to evaluate what he has and what he wants to add. And lastly, the longer you wait, the more cap space you get to add...

 

Agreed.  I have a feeling that with Julien MB is going to give him at least a couple of games and then let him report back about what he feels our needs are.  I suspect, he is going to tell MB that he needs a top pairing LD  and *maybe* a 2nd line LW rental.  The rental may be possible but i think we're going to need to fill from within on the missing D gap. It will just cost too much to get someone of quality right now imho.  

Obviously if a big deal drops in our lap, MB will make it but i suspect its going to be more like an ageing vet (who may well add a little playoff experience/scoring) or two that we will add. Wouldnt be surprised at all to see Iginla on our roster come March.

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

MB indicated he's not trading any top prospects and mentioned there are no #1 Centers out there available. Putting 2 and 2 together that sounds like we won't be in on Duchene. My guess is that we do something like picking up a Vanek for a 3rd rounder.

The question I would ask Bergevin is exactly why do we need a #1 centre if we have Galchenyuk on our roster? There's very few "No 1 Centres" in this league Id trade Galchenyuk straight up for. 

Lets hope Julien sees his value. 

 

[H_T_L]

14 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The question I would ask Bergevin is exactly why do we need a #1 centre if we have Galchenyuk on our roster? There's very few "No 1 Centres" in this league Id trade Galchenyuk straight up for. 

Lets hope Julien sees his value. 

 

Good question. I think I would have asked him if he regrets trading quality players just to appease a coach on borrowed time? Instead of making the right choice and firing him after that disaster of a season we had last year, he chooses instead to move PK and Eller. Willing to bet he's had a few nightmares over that.

[Regis22]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

The question I would ask Bergevin is exactly why do we need a #1 centre if we have Galchenyuk on our roster? There's very few "No 1 Centres" in this league Id trade Galchenyuk straight up for. 

Lets hope Julien sees his value. 

 

Because our esteemed GM doesn't think he's a C , they think he's winger

[BigTed3]

3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Good question. I think I would have asked him if he regrets trading quality players just to appease a coach on borrowed time? Instead of making the right choice and firing him after that disaster of a season we had last year, he chooses instead to move PK and Eller. Willing to bet he's had a few nightmares over that.

I really don't think MB regrets trading PK because I think both MT and MB had an issue with him. MT was always very grit-over-skill, whereas MB sees the value in skill but won't sacrifice leadership and character just to get it. I think Bergevin really didn't feel like Subban gelled well with what he wanted to do building a team, and he was willing to trade away skill and youth for veteran leadership and character. On the ice, it looks like a loss, but I think MB believes he got the better player in terms of making his team work. I disagree with him, but I think that's what MB sees. I do wonder if MB feels he could have gotten more from the trade (i.e. Weber plus another piece), but I don't think he wants Subban back.

As for Eller, that's a different bird. MT was always very anti-Eller, and Eller has since expressed that he didn't like the way MT coached him. But MB repeatedly lauded Eller as being a clutch guy and key playoff performer. I think MB saw a lot in Eller and really only made that trade to appease Therrien, as well as to get the cap room to acquire Shaw, whom he sees as again being a leader, a character guy, and a winner. I feel like MB might go back and keep Eller if he could find another way to make the cap work.

The other funny thing about the Eller trade is that where we're left now, we're looking for a center, despite supposedly having a logjam there this off-season. Galchenyuk has been shuffled around, Desharnais has been a flop, and Plekanec has hit his past-his-prime date. It's one thing if MB acquires a Duchene or RNH, but if he goes out and only ends up getting a Hanzal or Boyle, I really don't see how that's any better than having had Eller here. So to me, if MB goes after a 3rd-line center, it's an admission that the Eller trade (or Eller for Shaw trade-off if you will) was a poor decision.

[RicochetII]

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I really don't think MB regrets trading PK because I think both MT and MB had an issue with him. MT was always very grit-over-skill, whereas MB sees the value in skill but won't sacrifice leadership and character just to get it. I think Bergevin really didn't feel like Subban gelled well with what he wanted to do building a team, and he was willing to trade away skill and youth for veteran leadership and character. On the ice, it looks like a loss, but I think MB believes he got the better player in terms of making his team work. I disagree with him, but I think that's what MB sees. I do wonder if MB feels he could have gotten more from the trade (i.e. Weber plus another piece), but I don't think he wants Subban back.

As for Eller, that's a different bird. MT was always very anti-Eller, and Eller has since expressed that he didn't like the way MT coached him. But MB repeatedly lauded Eller as being a clutch guy and key playoff performer. I think MB saw a lot in Eller and really only made that trade to appease Therrien, as well as to get the cap room to acquire Shaw, whom he sees as again being a leader, a character guy, and a winner. I feel like MB might go back and keep Eller if he could find another way to make the cap work.

The other funny thing about the Eller trade is that where we're left now, we're looking for a center, despite supposedly having a logjam there this off-season. Galchenyuk has been shuffled around, Desharnais has been a flop, and Plekanec has hit his past-his-prime date. It's one thing if MB acquires a Duchene or RNH, but if he goes out and only ends up getting a Hanzal or Boyle, I really don't see how that's any better than having had Eller here. So to me, if MB goes after a 3rd-line center, it's an admission that the Eller trade (or Eller for Shaw trade-off if you will) was a poor decision.

If you compare Boyle + Shaw or Hanzal + Shaw, to Eller + Hudon or Eller + McCarron, it actually does look pretty bad in my eyes, all things considered. Any lost picks, salary, and potential, make it that much worse.

[Larry-Launstein-Jr]

My gut feeling here is the Habs need to find someone to be a reliable backup to Price. Price carries most of the load, and I think that has something to do with his current situation. I think he may be tired more than anything else. I see Jimmy Howard as a potential answer. They need to give Price a break once in awhile.  When Price went down last season, they had no backup at all - just in name only. And they tanked very quickly. A competent backup would help things immensely.

[kinot-2]

1 hour ago, Larry-Launstein-Jr said:

My gut feeling here is the Habs need to find someone to be a reliable backup to Price. Price carries most of the load, and I think that has something to do with his current situation. I think he may be tired more than anything else. I see Jimmy Howard as a potential answer. They need to give Price a break once in awhile.  When Price went down last season, they had no backup at all - just in name only. And they tanked very quickly. A competent backup would help things immensely.

IDK Larry,,, Monty has a 7-5-3 record this year,,, pretty much what you want from a back-up. 

[BigTed3]

What Bergevin has said:

- It's impossible to trade for an elite center

- If teams think that I'm going to trade away Sergachev or a top prospect that could be in the organization for ten years, it won't happen

He then added that he sees no more than 5 guys who fit this bill, but still, that's a decent number. Who are they? Sergachev for sure, maybe McCarron and Juulsen and Lindrgen and Scherbak? No wonder he finds it impossible to trade for a top center.

Just imagine you're another team calling up to offer Duchene or RNH or so on... sure, MB shouldn't have to give up something unreasonable, but it's also not reasonable to expect you're going to get a top-tier player and not give up one of your top 5 prospects to make it happen. Does MB think other teams will settle for Ryan Johnston and Chris Terry? The Habs obviously want to make a Cup run now, so it doesn't make sense to trade away a Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Petry, or Gallagher just to get a like player back. So if MB is not giving up a top roster player nor a top prospect, nothing's likely to get done.

Now maybe this is all just talk for the media, and we all know MB likes to keep his cards close to his vest. I can understand the rationale for wanting to keep Sergachev and maybe McCarron but you'd have to think he will need to part with at least one of Juulsen or Scherbak or Hudon or Lindgren or so on to get a deal done.

[loyalhabsfan]

My 2 cents won't amount to much, when I play as General Manager on NHL 17 I end up trading away every single draft pick worth anything + old veterans for young bucks with potential and just rack up points and they all end up being Elite players with max trade value...also if it doesn't work out I just start fresh with a new season. However, last season my team won the cup and I didn't realize I had to manage the upkeep of the bathrooms so my "Fan Happiness" was 9/100 ... Just working my way up to being a GM baby, one step at a time.

[hatethosebruins]

I honestly wouldn't be upset if we got Vanek back

[BigTed3]

6 minutes ago, hatethosebruins said:

I honestly wouldn't be upset if we got Vanek back

It wouldn't be the worst move they could make. Rumor is that the Wings think they can get a 2nd round pick for Vanek, and we're holding quite a few of those. If Therrien were still here, then bringing back Vanek wouldn't have made any sense, given how poorly the coach treated Vanek last time he was here. But now that we have a new coach, it opens up the possibility of bringing him in again. Would he be my first choice? No. But he's an option.

[Habs=stanleycup]

On the Montreal Canadiens ….

Chris Nichols of FanRag Sports: Pierre LeBrun was on TSN 690 talking about the Montreal Canadiens and the idea of trading one of their top prospects like Mikhail Sergachev for a forward like Matt Duchene. LeBrun said he was talking to two GM the other day about the Canadiens.

“One of them said, ‘To heck with the future, your job’s on the line. Go get Duchene and whoever else and try to win now, even if it costs you your best prospect. How do you know for sure your prospect is going to be a great player? I mean, does anyone really know?’

“But the other GM said, ‘No. You drafted this guy and your staff believes he’s Andrei Markov’s heir apparent. That’s worth more than almost anything on the market.’

Two different options from two guys who run teams.

LeBrun goes back to Martin Hanzal who wouldn’t cost the Canadiens as much, but isn’t as impactful as Duchene. He’s not a top line player, but he fills a specific need of the Canadiens – size, defensive presence and is good on the draw.

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-sharks-avalanche-montreal-canadiens-matt-duchene-martin-hanzal/2017/02/17/

[jeff33]

2 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

On the Montreal Canadiens ….

Chris Nichols of FanRag Sports: Pierre LeBrun was on TSN 690 talking about the Montreal Canadiens and the idea of trading one of their top prospects like Mikhail Sergachev for a forward like Matt Duchene. LeBrun said he was talking to two GM the other day about the Canadiens.

“One of them said, ‘To heck with the future, your job’s on the line. Go get Duchene and whoever else and try to win now, even if it costs you your best prospect. How do you know for sure your prospect is going to be a great player? I mean, does anyone really know?’

“But the other GM said, ‘No. You drafted this guy and your staff believes he’s Andrei Markov’s heir apparent. That’s worth more than almost anything on the market.’

Two different options from two guys who run teams.

LeBrun goes back to Martin Hanzal who wouldn’t cost the Canadiens as much, but isn’t as impactful as Duchene. He’s not a top line player, but he fills a specific need of the Canadiens – size, defensive presence and is good on the draw.

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-sharks-avalanche-montreal-canadiens-matt-duchene-martin-hanzal/2017/02/17/

kinda sounds like someone we used to have who we had to trade because of a coach who we then fired.....

maybe we should also target a puck moving d like shattenkirk since we dont have one of those either anymore

 

[Habs=stanleycup]

7 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

kinda sounds like someone we used to have who we had to trade because of a coach who we then fired.....

maybe we should also target a puck moving d like shattenkirk since we dont have one of those either anymore

 

Or simply try to get PK back.

[East_Coast_Juggalo_13]

As of right now, this is your potential roster moving forward:

Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov

Byron, Danault, Shaw

Lehkonen, Plekanec, Gallagher

Desharnais, McCarron, Mitchell

Emelin, Weber

Beaulieau, Petry

Markov, Pateryn

Price

Montoya

 

Trades for deadline day:

To FLA: Dave Desharnais

To MTL: Shawn Thornton

To DET: Greg Pateryn, Daniel Carr, MTL 2nd round pick 2017

To MTL: Thomas Vanek

To ARI: Jacob de la Rose, WSH 2nd round pick 2017

To MTL: Radim Vrbata

To NYI: MTL 2nd round pick 2018

To MTL: Dennis Seidenberg

 

 potential post-deadline line-up:

Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Radulov

Vanek, Plekanec, Vrbata

Byron, Danault, Gallagher

Lehkonen, Mitchell, Shaw

Emelin, Weber

Beaulieu, Petry

Seidenberg/Nesterov, Markov

Pirce

Montoya

[Regis22]

1 hour ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Trades for deadline day:

To FLA: Dave Desharnais

To MTL: Shawn Thornton

 

Why ? Thornton is useless . Id give them DD for free