Marc Bergevin and staff 2017-18

[BigTed3]

if Markov really did want 2 years at 6M a season, then letting him walk is the right decision. That being said, I really question what Marc Bergevin's plan is (or if he even has one). Not paying Radulov and Markov only helps if you actually spend that money on someone else. It doesn't help us to have 9-10M in cap space at the start of the year. Cap space doesn't score goals or win you games. If MB thought there was a chance Markov would move on, then why trade Beaulieu? Why trade Sergachev without having another left-handed puck mover to step in to fill the hole left by Markov. In one off-season, MB has lost the entire left side of his defence (Markov, Emelin, Beaulieu) AND the heir apparent there (Sergachev). And he's replaced those players with a collection of guys who are either too slow or not skilled enough to play in the top 4. We're weak down the middle up front but we're equally weak down the left side of our defence (Alzner, Schlemko, Davidson, Jerabek, Streit just doesn't cut it). Not sure what MB envisions for his line-up, but if defence and being strong down the middle of the ice are what wins you championships (and recent Cup winners all seem to have that in common), then MB is failing miserably and flailing big time at trying to solve these dossiers. No matter whether you like or dislike moves like Hemsky, Fleischmann, Montoya, King, Mitchell, Byron, Morrow, or Holland, these are simply not moves that win or lose you Cups. The fact remains that Bergevin continues to be unable to address real team needs. So while I can live with Markov being allowed to walk, you want to know MB made that decision because he has another plan to replace that player and a plan to make better use of that cap space. Right now, it just doesn't seem like that's the case.

[maas_art]

6 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

In one off-season, MB has lost the entire left side of his defence (Markov, Emelin, Beaulieu) AND the heir apparent there (Sergachev). 

In (roughly) one calendar year he's lost:

Subban, Markov, Sergachev, Beaulieu, Emeliin, Pateryn, Barberio

and replaced them with:

Drouin, Weber, Benn, 3rd round pick, 4th round pick

 

Yikes. 

[BigTed3]

If what Markov said is true and he was willing to accept one year, then the onus is one MB to fill that cap space with a better player than Markov. If he doesn't, it's yet another fail on Bergevin's end.

 

[HabsRuleForever]

3 hours ago, maas_art said:

In (roughly) one calendar year he's lost:

Subban, Markov, Sergachev, Beaulieu, Emeliin, Pateryn, Barberio

and replaced them with:

Drouin, Weber, Benn, 3rd round pick, 4th round pick

 

Yikes. 

And yet he still has a job.

 

Yikes

 

And this is our favourite team.

 

Double Yikes

[ramcharger440]

Jinkies

[manquant]

MArkov is one of the best hab defensemen in a long time; however,at 38 years old a GM has to be VERY Careful in signing a player... Markov said he would play for no other NHL Team than the Habs And said that due to family reasons he is going back to RUSSIA... l was it because the Habs did not want to give him 5 to 6M ... perhaps and if it's the case MB's #1 priority is NOT ONE player.... it's the ENTIRE ORGANIZATION. Please look at it this way:  He signs MArkov at $6M he is pretty much done and that is our team for this year.  HE lets MArkov Go And he has 8.4M to acquire a 1C via trade/acquisition or acquire a Dman + a 1/2C....via trade....  8.4M + let's say Gallagher or Shaw in a trade equals $12M in Cap space! The Plekanec drop next year takes care of the Price increase + most of Pacioretty raise. Markov won't be back... the sky isn't falling. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. At this point in Markov's career and his age it would be insane to give him what he wanted. Personally, I think good on Berg for not budging. I still believe Jerabek can replace Markov too.

[BigTed3]

^^ Again, no problem with MB wanting to use the cap space on other players. But, the UFA market has pretty much dried up. There isn't really anyone left who's going to be worth 7-8M a year. So where is this going? A trade? Maybe. We know Duchene is out there. We know Tavares is out there. We know RNH is out there. But all of those teams are going to want NHL-roster players back, so it's not like we're going to add 7-8M in salary via a transaction either.

So let's come back to MB saying "expect the unexpected." It hasn't happened yet. He has done pretty much squat this off-season to surprise the fanbase. So what would shock the NHL? An offer sheet. Draisaitl. Johansen. Even Granlund. Pastrnak. Bennett. Wennberg. Niederreiter. Will MB go after someone? At this point, it's getting to be the only thing that might justify not signing Radulov and/or Markov and leaving all these holes up and down our line-up.

[Habs=stanleycup]

47 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ Again, no problem with MB wanting to use the cap space on other players. But, the UFA market has pretty much dried up. There isn't really anyone left who's going to be worth 7-8M a year. So where is this going? A trade? Maybe. We know Duchene is out there. We know Tavares is out there. We know RNH is out there. But all of those teams are going to want NHL-roster players back, so it's not like we're going to add 7-8M in salary via a transaction either.

So let's come back to MB saying "expect the unexpected." It hasn't happened yet. He has done pretty much squat this off-season to surprise the fanbase. So what would shock the NHL? An offer sheet. Draisaitl. Johansen. Even Granlund. Pastrnak. Bennett. Wennberg. Niederreit meaner. Will MB go after someone? At this point, it's getting to be the only thing that might justify not signing Radulov and/or Markov and leaving all these holes up and down our line-up.

Perhaps 'expect the unexpected' was meant to mean 'low expectations' are to be expected. 

[kinot-2]

45 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Perhaps 'expect the unexpected' was meant to mean 'low expectations' are to be expected. 

Well, if "low expectations" are to be expected, then it's not totally unexpected.

 

[RuudNuij]

MB has put this team no farther than some years ago, we again search for a Vanuk, Briere, Parenteau up front after ridding ourselves of Radulov, for even a price he was worth (these days), he could spark a team, and even Pacioretty expressed he would have enjoyed him staying.

defense has been flying in and out, without really ever playing, .. so this year we wait again for breakouts in G & G, our new man Drouin, and others.

I`m sorry, but Montreal is a laugh for now, not much serious in searching for a cup if you ask me.

someone spoke earlier of 4 top offense men, I do not know who these people are ( the top 4), as I still feel only Patches is yet for real.

sure we have some very reasonable players, but knock out Price and Patches, .. who do you have left?

top of the bottom for now, .. a cup is just as likely as in any past season, but I believe there are better teams out there as Montreal refuses to take offense seriously.

 

[ChiLla]

14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If what Markov said is true and he was willing to accept one year, then the onus is one MB to fill that cap space with a better player than Markov. If he doesn't, it's yet another fail on Bergevin's end.

Absolutely, not to mention that the optics are pretty bad, too. Letting a guy like Markov walk, who spent his entire 16-year NHL career here and still happens to be the best LD on the roster, isn't going to go down well with the fans and the locker room IMO. I also don't think Markov has a reason to lie about being willing to accept a 1-year deal in the end, he genuinely wanted to stay a Hab or go back to Russia it seems.

It's been a terrible off-season so far and the team is IMO weaker than last season. That's entirely on Bergevin, he failed miserably at acquiring a scoring center, he also removed  all of last year's LD without adequate replacement, and he lost Radulov because of a non-consequential difference in salary. We now have plenty of Cap space and nothing to show for it. Well done, Marc.

[BigTed3]

The joke running round the internet right now is that Marc Bergevin is telling people not to worry because everything is on track for Year 6 of his 5-year plan. The bottom line is that you look at where we were when you took over and there was a lot of promise... Price, Subban, and Pacioretty all hitting their prime, Markov and Plekanec still capable players, Gallagher and Galchenyuk joining the roster, etc.

Now look at where we are today and ask yourself if you have more or less hope for the organization's chances over the next 3-5 years of winning a Cup. To me, the answer is less, even with Therrien gone. Our D corps is old and slow. Weber is a guy who either helps you win now or else his contract becomes more of a hindrance to winning down the line, and the rest of the line-up is frankly not good enough to win now because of the glaring holes at center and on defence. We have a wealth of good wingers, but the only players capable of being top 6 centers (AG and JD) are being told they won't get a real opportunity to play there. So is the team really going into the season with the plan to use Plekanec, Danault, and Shaw as its top 3 centermen?

As I've said before, there's simply a lack of vision here. When you have a great young nucleus like MB had with Pac, Price, Subban, AG, BG, Eller, etc., then you build around that. You don't trade pieces of that for older players when you have the chance to have a 5-6 year window at a Cup. You don't spend tons of money on role players like Shaw and Alzner and Prust and Desharnais but refuse to pay your actual skill guys like Subban and Galchenyuk. You don't claim you're building through the draft but have no draft picks graduating through your system. Outside of Hudon (whom the organization seems to hate), we have zero players in the AHL who seem ready or capable of becoming impact players in the NHL. MB himself said Brett Lernout was possibly the most NHL-ready D man in the AHL, and he's a 3rd-pairing guy at best. Players like Scherbak and McCarron seem to be lost under Lefebvre.

So yes, MB has made a few good trades in isolation. I like the Drouin trade, but it had to have been done with the goal of adding more to this year's team. I liked the Petry deal and I liked the Cole salary dump, if it weren't for the fact the money was promptly wasted on Briere and then PAP and then a buyout. But despite a few good trades, the drafting/development has been a fail under Bergevin and the overall vision for the team is simply lacking. It's kind of like a chef who's stockpiling ingredients but hasn't yet come up with a plan for how to turn them into a meal, and he's spent all his money on appetizers and side dishes but still has no main course and the store is closed. There are good players here. But you can't have all defensive defencemen and guys who are slow and can't move the puck. And you can't have all your skill at wing but have no centers to play with them. The pieces here just aren't fitting together, and that's squarely on Bergevin.

[Habs=stanleycup]

11 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Well, if "low expectations" are to be expected, then it's not totally unexpected.

 

[maas_art]

20 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If what Markov said is true and he was willing to accept one year, then the onus is one MB to fill that cap space with a better player than Markov. If he doesn't, it's yet another fail on Bergevin's end.

 

Bingo.  And this has been the problem with MB since he got here.  He makes great moves in isolation.  But the big picture is never addressed.   Lets face it, 29 (now 30) teams go home disappointed every year but a good GM doesnt build a team that will "make it to the playoffs & then we'll see what happens."  A good Gm does everything he can to put the best possible team on the ice.

Is it possible we are better this year than last? Sure. It would take break out years from a few guys (Drouin, Chuck etc)  bounceback years from a few (Pleks, Gallagher) and someone on the blueline exceeding expectations, but it is possible.  Can we we win the cup? Maybe.   But no matter how you slice it, on paper we are no better (probably worse) position than this time last year. And we got 6 playoff games last year.  Is that really what we need?  With half our team at or past their prime?

So like you, i sit and wait, hoping this is just part of MB's plan - needing to keep that cap space for some blockbuster move that will make us better overnight.  

I am not optimistic.

[Regis22]

18 minutes ago, maas_art said:

  Can we we win the cup? Maybe.  

Not a chance

Goal - no change . Other than CP is now a year older

D is probably worse than last year . They are old , slow and not very mobile . Therre are no up and coming prospects on D . He got rid of them.

The forwards - same as last year , Still didn't address the need for a  # 1 and # 2 C

Claude Julien cant work miracles when he has little to work with

IMHO

[kinot-2]

From what I understand, we have $8.5 mil. in cap space. I'm hoping (praying?), that MB will actually use it to make our team better and find someone to save us from another catastrophe like what has happened the last few years. I can't afford to wait much longer for a long run at the cup. Our prospect pool has been decimated, we have gotten a lot older, slower, and less talented. Our farm coach is as inept as I have ever seen (what was it that MB said about the farm club, something along the lines of "it doesn't matter about winning, just the development of the players"?), if it was all about development, why not just have practices and no games?  MB has steadfastly brought in staff that seems totally lost when it comes to development of draftees. I've only played shinny about 3 times in my life but even I could coach Laval better that the slugs we have now coaching.

This "5 year plan" has gotten legs, and now will be stretched out to be an 8 year plan. 

I've lived and died with and for this team for over 55 years (thank you 50's, 60's, and 70's), but I admit I am coming to the the end of the rope. I'm pissed off, had it, and fed up!!!!

[maas_art]

25 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

From what I understand, we have $8.5 mil. in cap space. I'm hoping (praying?), that MB will actually use it to make our team better and find someone to save us from another catastrophe like what has happened the last few years. I can't afford to wait much longer for a long run at the cup. Our prospect pool has been decimated, we have gotten a lot older, slower, and less talented. Our farm coach is as inept as I have ever seen (what was it that MB said about the farm club, something along the lines of "it doesn't matter about winning, just the development of the players"?), if it was all about development, why not just have practices and no games?  MB has steadfastly brought in staff that seems totally lost when it comes to development of draftees. I've only played shinny about 3 times in my life but even I could coach Laval better that the slugs we have now coaching.

This "5 year plan" has gotten legs, and now will be stretched out to be an 8 year plan. 

I've lived and died with and for this team for over 55 years (thank you 50's, 60's, and 70's), but I admit I am coming to the the end of the rope. I'm pissed off, had it, and fed up!!!!

its definitely looking dire.

the problem is that I cant see a scenario where one trade makes us so much better because we're already thin in so many places.  Lets say MB gets Tavares for Galchenyuk and picks.   First off, I love JT and I would make that deal, but who is to say AG wont have a break out year next year & make the deal a wash?  Even if he doest & we agree that JT is a much more complete player, how does that address arguably our biggest hole (#1LD).

On the flip side, if MB turns around & acquires a #1 LD  (lets say, Hampus Lindholm for Galchenyuk)  Now our defense looks better but we're weaker up front.   

its not like we have a lot of great prospects we can dangle.  Sergachev was about it. Sure you could sweeten the deal with a Juulsen or Scherbek, but they arent getting you much on their own... plus we may want to keep a prospect or two...

My biggest fear is that MB will pull a PK-Weber v2.0 and ship out AG to acquire a "character" guy like Duchene.   Dont get me wrong, I like Duchene a lot but not at that cost. 

 

 

[BigTed3]

Bergevin has quietly gone about dismantling the Russian component of the team. Emelin gone. Nesterov gone. Radulov gone. Markov gone. Galchenyuk reluctantly signed for now, perhaps because he is only quasi-Russian!

And if you look even closer, Bergevin has completely replaced his entire defence corps in two years. No more Subban, Markov, Emelin, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Pateryn, Gilbert, Bouillon, Murray, Gonchar, Weaver, Allen, Gorges, Diaz, Kaberle, Drewiske, or Yannick Weber. Bergevin likes to state that you can never have too many defencemen, but apparently he means that you can never trade away too many defencemen. Look at the current group... Petry has been here a touch over two years and he's the longest-serving player. Weber was new last year. Benn and Davidson played just the end of the year here. Morrow and Jerabek and Alzner and Streit and Schlemko haven't played a game here under MB. This is MB's defence corps, and one has to wonder if it's going to be a lot for so many new players to develop chemistry together. It's also an issue that none of those players were actually drafted or developed here (outside of Streit, who doesn't count as an MB draftee anyways).

In fact, if you look at the team MB iced in his first year here, he has now turned over the entire roster outside of Price, Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, and Galchenyuk. So if we're going to judge Bergevin, we have the right to. This is a team that he had put together as he sees fit. Even Galchenyuk was his own choice, and the other four players are guys he has personally re-signed (and whom he could have let walk). So judge away. This is squarely on Bergevin's shoulders now.

[maas_art]

10 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

It's also an issue that none of those players were actually drafted or developed here

Thats probably the most telling stat right there.

The ENTIRE defensive corps - Weber, Petry, Alzner, Benn, Davidson, Schlemko and Morrow were acquired via trade.

Where did this guy go:  "All great teams build through the draft."   ~Marc Bergevin 2012.    I guess that doesnt apply to defensmen?  or? ...

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

To be fair, Defense can take a while to develop. And it’s not exactly as if our prospect pool is void of potential. Nor have we exactly been drafting inside of the first half of the rounds very often. A couple of times, yes, but mostly we’ve been drafting from the last third of the round. That’s not to say that better results couldn’t have been achieved (I’m sure I could have done it better :P), I’m just saying that were talking about a 5 year window here. Hard to be overly critical towards any GM based on how many D-men they have managed to develop inside that small of a window.

[olddude]

On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 7:52 PM, maas_art said:

Thats probably the most telling stat right there.

The ENTIRE defensive corps - Weber, Petry, Alzner, Benn, Davidson, Schlemko and Morrow were acquired via trade.

Where did this guy go:  "All great teams build through the draft."   ~Marc Bergevin 2012.    I guess that doesnt apply to defensmen?  or? ...

This may be true when the team sucks for 5 years and drafts first overall, but if you're not drafting in the top 10 even, nothing is certain.

[MALMACIAN_CRUNCH]

1 hour ago, olddude said:

This may be true when the team sucks for 5 years and drafts first overall, but if you're not drafting in the top 10 even, nothing is certain.

Absolutely. It's not that it can't be done, it's just that it is likely going to take a little longer. The further past the top 10 you go, the more likely it's going to take some time for those kid's to develop. Not always, but more often than not. Just like it's no guarantee that any kid picked within the top 10 is going to be ready to jump in right off the hop, just that it's more likely. And especially if were talking about defensive prospects, they naturally take longer to be NHL ready, even most that are picked from within the top 10. Unless that is, they are total beasts, or they are recklessly rushed into action before they are properly acclimated. Either way, I don't find it all that alarming that none of MB's defensive prospects have cracked the line up just yet. Ask me again in 3 years, if were still sitting at zero, I'm sure I will have a different outlook    

[habs1952]

6 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

To be fair, Defense can take a while to develop. And it’s not exactly as if our prospect pool is void of potential. Nor have we exactly been drafting inside of the first half of the rounds very often. A couple of times, yes, but mostly we’ve been drafting from the last third of the round. That’s not to say that better results couldn’t have been achieved (I’m sure I could have done it better :P), I’m just saying that were talking about a 5 year window here. Hard to be overly critical towards any GM based on how many D-men they have managed to develop inside that small of a window.

Besides Subban who was traded, I can't think of any D-man playing for the Habs who was developed by the Habs. We've basically traded everything away.

[Regis22]

and they traded the 1st round D man they drafted last year for the elusive young French Canadian that they didn't really need

 

[CaptWelly]

15 hours ago, Regis22 said:

and they traded the 1st round D man they drafted last year for the elusive young French Canadian that they didn't really need

 

I actually don't get this comment? French or not Druion is an offensive player that is young with a huge upside. Trading away a top defensive prospect I don't like. That said he is still a prospect and could be Subban 2.0 or Beau 2.0 still unknown and like most defenseman may take a few years to be a top d-man if he does work out. What we have needed for years is offense. This trade does exactly that gives us offense up front. I would of loved to kept Rads but Druion is a lot younger. The fact he's French is nice for some fans but either way he addresses a need everyone has been talking about with a trade for someone who wasn't even in the line up. We have a solid defensive corp of D-man , along with Price who with his puck handling skills actually helps against for checkers. Pitts won the cup with a no name defense, yes the Preds had a mobile offensive d-corp , but everyone forgets they almost missed the playoffs to start with. With that same defense.