2017-18 The Rumors Thread

[kinot-2]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Well it depends. If he makes it clear to the Isle he wants to go UFA it may not cost that much but then we'd basically be paying for a rental, unless we think we can resign him.  Its a very slippery slope either way. 

I read in a different article they asked 'every player' except Karlsson

From the Ottawa Sun: "The indication Sunday was Karlsson, who will be an unrestricted free agent on July 1, 2019,  was likely among the players with ‘No Move’ or ‘No Trade’ clauses that was asked to give their lists to the Senators in September."  

 

 

[maas_art]

4 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

From the Ottawa Sun: "The indication Sunday was Karlsson, who will be an unrestricted free agent on July 1, 2019,  was likely among the players with ‘No Move’ or ‘No Trade’ clauses that was asked to give their lists to the Senators in September."  

Yup, like i said, some outlets are saying one thing, some are saying another.  

I would think there's no way on earth we can pry a guy like Karlsson out of ottawa but for fun, what would it take?   If Ottawa is honesty considering moving him I suspect they would want a monster package back, including a lot of top end, young players.   If we still had Sergachev maybe we could play ball.   Mete + Galchenyuk + Gallagher + 1st  is still probably not enough.

Plus as good as he is, im not sure it makes our team that much better, especially if we have to gut it to get him. 

 

[kinot-2]

1 minute ago, maas_art said:

Yup, like i said, some outlets are saying one thing, some are saying another.  

I would think there's no way on earth we can pry a guy like Karlsson out of ottawa but for fun, what would it take?   If Ottawa is honesty considering moving him I suspect they would want a monster package back, including a lot of top end, young players.   If we still had Sergachev maybe we could play ball.   Mete + Galchenyuk + Gallagher + 1st  is still probably not enough.

 

Imagine the package that we could have gotten for PK.

 

[jeff33]

51 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Imagine the package that we could have gotten for PK.

 

every time I have this debate with my buddies thats where it always finishes. 

if we HAD to trade the guy, and he really was this locker room cancer bla bla........make a good trade!! 

as you guys know im for trading all our big name players, and Its not just my opinion pertaining to the habs. I absolutely think ottawa should blow it up. they stink. karlsson isnt gonna win it for them by himself. when you are in that position where you literally only have one guy, I feel like you need to turn that one guy into multiple pieces if you want to take another run at having a good deep team.

 

[CaptWelly]

4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

every time I have this debate with my buddies thats where it always finishes. 

if we HAD to trade the guy, and he really was this locker room cancer bla bla........make a good trade!! 

as you guys know im for trading all our big name players, and Its not just my opinion pertaining to the habs. I absolutely think ottawa should blow it up. they stink. karlsson isnt gonna win it for them by himself. when you are in that position where you literally only have one guy, I feel like you need to turn that one guy into multiple pieces if you want to take another run at having a good deep team.

 

I think this may be truer now than it actually was at that time. Team Canada didn't want him and a lot of GM's thought we had the better part of the deal. Even Nashville early in the summer before Ellis was injured they were considering the deal Subban for Duchene. Colorado actually wanted additional Subban plus. I know this page loves Subban but there have been a lot of defenseman moved that ended one for one or not a giant deal. I'm not saying he shouldn't be, but outside of the "loyal" Subban fans I don't believe he's considered in the class of Doughty or Karlson and I don't think he'd bring that giant package. Anyway whatever could of been at this time doesn't matter or make a difference now. What could we have gotten for Price after his MVP award winning season.....doesn't matter now.

[jwlk]

26 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I think this may be truer now than it actually was at that time. Team Canada didn't want him and a lot of GM's thought we had the better part of the deal. Even Nashville early in the summer before Ellis was injured they were considering the deal Subban for Duchene. Colorado actually wanted additional Subban plus. I know this page loves Subban but there have been a lot of defenseman moved that ended one for one or not a giant deal. I'm not saying he shouldn't be, but outside of the "loyal" Subban fans I don't believe he's considered in the class of Doughty or Karlson and I don't think he'd bring that giant package. Anyway whatever could of been at this time doesn't matter or make a difference now. What could we have gotten for Price after his MVP award winning season.....doesn't matter now.

suban's value does not matter anymore, great player, loved the guy, but we traded him and what his value is now or in the future does not effect us in any way, 

PS the Duchene deal was horrible

[habby67]

Lets talk about the cap space again like the media OBSESS about. What's the point in having all that space anyways?? Unless I am wrong, which could be possible, unless they trade several pieces to take on a big contract then the only time it will to fruition is in the offseason with free agents. 

[maas_art]

13 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

I think this may be truer now than it actually was at that time. Team Canada didn't want him and a lot of GM's thought we had the better part of the deal. Even Nashville early in the summer before Ellis was injured they were considering the deal Subban for Duchene. Colorado actually wanted additional Subban plus. I know this page loves Subban but there have been a lot of defenseman moved that ended one for one or not a giant deal. I'm not saying he shouldn't be, but outside of the "loyal" Subban fans I don't believe he's considered in the class of Doughty or Karlson and I don't think he'd bring that giant package. Anyway whatever could of been at this time doesn't matter or make a difference now. What could we have gotten for Price after his MVP award winning season.....doesn't matter now.

I tend to agree.  Honestly I bet you the return on Subban to Nashville would be pretty close to on par with the return we would get for Weber if we traded them right now.  Sure there are GMs would would value Subban higher than Weber - but there's also a lot who would rather have Shea than PK. There are a lot of different opinions out there.  On our roster, our team its no contest which player would be better. 

The problems are that its highly likely that Weber will regress much sooner than Subban - and MB aint trading Weber so... there's your issues. 

I have little doubt that a team who feels they are one #1 D away from contention (Edmonton, Toronto) would give a monster package for either Weber or Subban - and in these case of those 2 teams, its entirely possible they pay higher for Weber than PK, despite what analytics may tell you is prudent. 

[CaptWelly]

6 hours ago, habby67 said:

Lets talk about the cap space again like the media OBSESS about. What's the point in having all that space anyways?? Unless I am wrong, which could be possible, unless they trade several pieces to take on a big contract then the only time it will to fruition is in the offseason with free agents. 

I really don't think it was intentional. I believe the GM thought he'd land either Radalov or Markov. (Rad's if he really wanted to be here would be) I feel bad for Markov. I really think he should of made him at least a 4.5-5 two year deal. He was worth it. The thing is he was great moving the puck and great defensively with his positioning. I believe once he didn't land either that he thought the team was good enough as is to make the playoffs. Than he would have the space to make a deal going into the playoffs. It actually might of worked if Price had just played his normal game and not fell off the cliff. I think now he's still waiting to see if we have a shot this year or not. I don't at this point think that is now not a bad idea because why make a giant deal if you're not in and maybe give up parts moving forward. With the caps space and maybe other contracts coming off , he could maybe get a Tavares and maybe defensive help for next year without giving up Chucky Lekohnen ect. At this point I'd rather he not go for something unless it did look like we're in at the deadline. Which is a "outside" shot at this point. "IF SPENT WISELY" In the summer we might have a shot at the cup before having to tear down the team. Next year Mete and possibly Jueslin would both be in the lineup also. At this point I hope he doesn't think he has to spend the cap $ and still not make the playoffs and give up youth and talent to do it!

[BigTed3]

^^ There may be GM's who value Weber as highly or more than Subban. When the trade was made, the anonymous poll of GM's suggested it was split as to which team was thought to have won the trade. But fast forward a year later and David Poile was voted GM of the year in large part because of his wins in the Forsberg and Subban trades. The major defence of the Weber acquisition was that Weber would help the Habs win now and that he would help the Habs get over the hump in the playoffs. Neither of those things has proven true. Now add on that Weber is older and on a longer contract, and the more time that passes, the fewer teams that will be interested in acquiring Weber. I'm sure you'll find GM's and hockey people who would love to have Weber for 1-2 seasons or one short tournament, but I think the number of people willing to take him on for almost a decade will be fewer. It's even more interesting because I think it was TSN or Sportsnet that did their Olympic projections (before the NHL ruled out going) and they had Pietrangelo, Subban, and Doughty down the right side, with Weber not even making the team. So basically the exact opposite of a few years ago, when they had Weber as the #1 guy on the right and Subban fighting with Letang for the last spot. Now is that because the writers are Habs-haters who are only willing to recognize Subban now that he's not on our team? Or is it because people think Subban has improved (hard to believe that given he was already a Norris winner before)? Or is it that people recognize Weber has regressed and has deficiencies in his game in terms of skating and puck movement? I'd favor the last idea.

In any case, if there are GM's out there who want Weber, it's Bergevin's job to find them and milk the most out of them that he can. It's his job to deal Weber before he's no longer viewed as a top-pairing player. And it's his job to trade him at peak value. And here's the other thing: if some people view Subban or other players as being less valuable than we know they are (based on things like advanced stats), then it's Bergevin's job to go out and find those players who are under-valued by the league but can provide a boost to our line-up more than their trade value or cap hits would hurt us. That's just being a good GM.

[Windoe]

Habby67: Now that we should be sellers, the cap space we have is potentially quite important because it allows a Cup contender to dump some bad contract(s) on us and replace them with new contracts they feel can help them win the Cup.  For example, let's say Tampa Bay wants Pacioretty.  That would add 4.500 to their cap and put them over the cap ceiling.  Montreal could help Tampa make room by taking 32 yo Ryan Callahan with a cap hit of 5.800.

So we'll give you Pacioretty plus we'll relieve you of Callahan in exchange for high picks, top prospects and top rookies (Sergachev is coming back!). You can increase your odds of winning the Cup, and we'll get younger and have a stronger future.

Rinse and repeat with our other older assets like Weber, Plekanec, Petry, (Subban if he were still here), and before you know it we have alot of good picks and prospects.  

In two or three years time, the bad contracts have moved on, and the youth is ready to go.

 

 

 

[maas_art]

According to Eklund we are "heavily scouting"  Niklas Hjalmarsson.  Which makes total sense.  We cant score, we cant move the puck so we should go out & get a 30 year old defensive defensman.  We dont have enough of those.  Maybe we can look at acquiring a left winger while we're at it?

[HabsRuleForever]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

According to Eklund we are "heavily scouting"  Niklas Hjalmarsson.  Which makes total sense.  We cant score, we cant move the puck so we should go out & get a 30 year old defensive defensman.  We dont have enough of those.  Maybe we can look at acquiring a left winger while we're at it?

And another back-up goalie and another "aide" to the general manager.

[Noob616]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

According to Eklund we are "heavily scouting"  Niklas Hjalmarsson.  Which makes total sense.  We cant score, we cant move the puck so we should go out & get a 30 year old defensive defensman.  We dont have enough of those.  Maybe we can look at acquiring a left winger while we're at it?

IMO difference is Hjalmarsson actually is what GMs think their "defensive defenseman" (Alzner) is. We have tons of defensive defensemen but for genuine top 4 guys we have Weber and Petry and that's it. I'd much rather a top 4 puck mover but just getting ANY kind of top 4 guy is a bigger concern than stylistic concerns IMO. Hjalmarsson isn't an archetypal PMD but he can still move the puck and he's orders of magnitude better than Benn/Alzner in a top 4 role.

Depends on the price but I think the Habs either have to go all in and take a big swing or start a retool, and Hjalmarsson is a really good piece to add if you're going to take a swing. If they want to try and compete with Pacioretty/Price/Weber this year is basically the last shot at it and Hjalmarsson could be a pretty affordable first move if the team really wants to take a swing at it.

[booboo_mtl]

I think any rumour coming from Eklund, is very safe to say, never going to happen. 

[maas_art]

35 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

IMO difference is Hjalmarsson actually is what GMs think their "defensive defenseman" (Alzner) is. We have tons of defensive defensemen but for genuine top 4 guys we have Weber and Petry and that's it. I'd much rather a top 4 puck mover but just getting ANY kind of top 4 guy is a bigger concern than stylistic concerns IMO. Hjalmarsson isn't an archetypal PMD but he can still move the puck and he's orders of magnitude better than Benn/Alzner in a top 4 role.

Depends on the price but I think the Habs either have to go all in and take a big swing or start a retool, and Hjalmarsson is a really good piece to add if you're going to take a swing. If they want to try and compete with Pacioretty/Price/Weber this year is basically the last shot at it and Hjalmarsson could be a pretty affordable first move if the team really wants to take a swing at it.

He may be better than Alzner and Benn but its not just a 1 vs 1 scenario.  This defense looks horrible but we actually have 4 or even 5 of the slots filled quite well.  All the RD slots are good and we have any number of guys who can slot in at 3rd pairing LD.  I think even a guy like Schlemko (if you paired him with Petry) would be sufficient at second pairing LD.  What we need is a top pairing LD.  Add a guy like OEL to this roster (and actually bench / waive guys like Alzner and Morrow) & we suddenly have a good looking defense.  

So while I dont disagree that Hjalmarsson would probably slot into Alzner's spot & be night and day better, I dont think this team needs to fill that slot. Julien needs to start dressing his 6 best guys every night (which is not what is happening) and we need to find some sort of solution to that #1LD hole. Benn isnt it. Alzner definitely isnt it.  JJ might be it but i think he's got a lot of learning to do.  Hjalmarsson imho isnt it either.

9 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

I think any rumour coming from Eklund, is very safe to say, never going to happen. 

Someone did a breakdown of all his rumours over a couple years' span.  He was batting something like 8-12% on most teams (much higher, like 20%+ on anything involving the Pennsylvania-based teams so he clearly has some info on the flyers/pens).   

That seems pretty low - and I agree, you absolutely have to take his ideas with a LARGE grain of sale - but a lot rumours do stay just that - rumors.  Its no secret Bergevin has been on the phones for months but really nothing has happened. So there's probably all sort of legitimate rumours out there (Ie he asked about such and such or maybe even offered player x) but we'll never know or be able to confirm them unless he came out & said it in a book or something once he's gone from his GM's post.  

[Noob616]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

He may be better than Alzner and Benn but its not just a 1 vs 1 scenario.  This defense looks horrible but we actually have 4 or even 5 of the slots filled quite well.  All the RD slots are good and we have any number of guys who can slot in at 3rd pairing LD.  I think even a guy like Schlemko (if you paired him with Petry) would be sufficient at second pairing LD. 

I mean it kinda is though. Hjalmarsson in means him playing top 4 minutes instead of Benn or Alzner. Pushing either of those guys out of the top 4 is good, and even if we think Schlemko is a #4 (which tbh I'm not really that thrilled about either) then it's still better to roll Hjalmarsson-Weber / Schlemko-Petry / Alzner-Benn than what we have now.

Quote

What we need is a top pairing LD.  Add a guy like OEL to this roster (and actually bench / waive guys like Alzner and Morrow) & we suddenly have a good looking defense.  

If the choice is Hjalmarsson vs OEL it's not even a discussion but that's a very different discussion than what a Hjalmarsson trade might be. Any team looks better with OEL but there's only so many of those guys to go around and waiting too long to get one might put the season completely out of reach. Habs desperately need a Tavares, but that doesn't mean MB shouldn't inquire about a Turris/Duchene/Henrique. 

Quote

we need to find some sort of solution to that #1LD hole. Benn isnt it. Alzner definitely isnt it.  JJ might be it but i think he's got a lot of learning to do.  Hjalmarsson imho isnt it either.

I don't think he's a perfect 1LD either but Benn and Alzner are horrible as 1 and 2 LD and after that Schlemko has been a #5 his whole career, Jerabek's a rookie, Mete's a teenager, and Morrow is a depth guy. Hjalmarsson isn't perfect but he's a solid top 4 defender and this team only has 2 of those and a billion dollars in cap space so a Hjalmarsson trade doesn't mean you can't add a top pair guy later. 

[maas_art]

13 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

I mean it kinda is though. Hjalmarsson in means him playing top 4 minutes instead of Benn or Alzner. Pushing either of those guys out of the top 4 is good, and even if we think Schlemko is a #4 (which tbh I'm not really that thrilled about either) then it's still better to roll Hjalmarsson-Weber / Schlemko-Petry / Alzner-Benn than what we have now.

If the choice is Hjalmarsson vs OEL it's not even a discussion but that's a very different discussion than what a Hjalmarsson trade might be. Any team looks better with OEL but there's only so many of those guys to go around and waiting too long to get one might put the season completely out of reach. Habs desperately need a Tavares, but that doesn't mean MB shouldn't inquire about a Turris/Duchene/Henrique. 

I don't think he's a perfect 1LD either but Benn and Alzner are horrible as 1 and 2 LD and after that Schlemko has been a #5 his whole career, Jerabek's a rookie, Mete's a teenager, and Morrow is a depth guy. Hjalmarsson isn't perfect but he's a solid top 4 defender and this team only has 2 of those and a billion dollars in cap space so a Hjalmarsson trade doesn't mean you can't add a top pair guy later. 

Totally no disagreeing with any of your logic but I guess my concern is more to do with a) player deployment and b )  adding Hjalmarsson means MB probably thinks he doesnt need anything else and I think thats a huge mistake on his part.   If NH is added sure he's better than most of the players on our roster but he still doesnt fix that huge gaping hole.   If you could flip Alzner or Benn or Morrow etc for Hjalmarsson then its a no brainer but if you have to give up assets we're still left with an unsuitable top LD.  That has to be addressed but it seems like MB is unwilling or unable to do so. 

Either way its probably moot as its eklund. 

[Noob616]

Yeah agreed that he's not enough, I'd hope we could get him for a depth guy off the roster + B prospect etc. I'm coming from the perspective of the Pacioretty/Weber/Price core basically living week to week at this point and if MB doesn't make a panic move it might be too late to make any moves later.

 

But yeah fair enough it's Eklund

[maas_art]

18 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

Yeah agreed that he's not enough, I'd hope we could get him for a depth guy off the roster + B prospect etc. I'm coming from the perspective of the Pacioretty/Weber/Price core basically living week to week at this point and if MB doesn't make a panic move it might be too late to make any moves later.

That right there is my biggest fear.  I just hope we can get out of this season without a panic move.

[habs1952]

Can't overlook the cup winning connection Hjalmarsson has with Chicago. Combined with Shaw we're on our way to the promised land!

[kinot-2]

I fully expected to hear that MB has made another dumb move in the last 4 days. It's either good or bad that he didn't. 

[HabsRuleForever]

Darn

Chris Neil retired.

[kinot-2]

21 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Darn

Chris Neil retired.

Missed opportunity .

[maas_art]

49 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

I fully expected to hear that MB has made another dumb move in the last 4 days. It's either good or bad that he didn't. 

Yeah me too.  It seemed like the break between games would be when he did it but i guess he thinks the answer is in the room.

 

Will be interesting to see if he makes any moves before January.