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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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On 1/20/2018 at 2:41 PM, habsisme said:

Fabbro and a 1st is a good start. No interest in Aberg, he's just a throw in. But like they say in the article, given what was given for Duchene, shouldn't we want more? I'd want another 1st, or maybe two 2nds. And I still feel like we could get more. 

Totally. And if MB is smart, we will get a huge haul.  Andrew Berkshire breaks down exactly the stuff Bergevin should be telling GMs who come calling.  Pacioretty is one of the elite goal-scorers of his generation, will be good for 2 guaranteed playoff runs and if you put him alongside a top #1C should be even better elsewhere.  

There is no reason we couldnt ask (and get) a top flight centre prospect, a young puckmoving LHD and some high draft picks.  


Full article (with stat breakdowns) here

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According to Bob McKenzie, the Jets are looking for a gritty playoff performer type of forward and McKenzie suggests Andrew Shaw would be a perfect fit for what the Jets are looking for. If MB can recover his two 2nd rounders or a 1st, I'd consider making the move. That said, Shaw has played well this year, so I think his value his higher now than it was a year ago.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

According to Bob McKenzie, the Jets are looking for a gritty playoff performer type of forward and McKenzie suggests Andrew Shaw would be a perfect fit for what the Jets are looking for. If MB can recover his two 2nd rounders or a 1st, I'd consider making the move. That said, Shaw has played well this year, so I think his value his higher now than it was a year ago.

I agree on both counts.  If the return is good, we move him but i have zero problems with Shaw under Julien. He's been significantly better than he was under Therrien and is actually a very useful player; a top quality bottom six or a decent fill-in top six. The fact he can play any forward position really helps too. 

My biggest concern with him is his concussion history + style of play, which makes me wonder if he'll become less effective as time goes on. 

They do have some nice pieces though. not sure they'd be willing to part with a guy like Stanley or Green but if you did one of those guys + a high pick, id certainly move Shaw.  If its a midling player or a single pick I dont think i would. 

 

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interestingly, one of our forward Prospects (bitten) has been developing some nice chemistry with his OHL centreman, none other than St. Louis' Robert Thomas - the same guy some rumours have suggested we are looking hard at.    Bitten is a smallish but speedy forward projecting a lot like gallagher (with a couple more inches). Both he and Thomas are "julien-type" players too, both fairly defensively repsonsible even at their young age.   Wouldnt it be great to acquire a guy like Thomas & have those two graduate to the big club next year?  

If St. Louis is really serious about winning now, i would make a strong pitch for them to acquire Pacioretty.  They get a premiere goal scorere (just entering a hot streak) for 2 more playoffs guaranteed.  We get Thomas, either a young roster defensman like Vince Dunn, or a prospect like Schmaltz  and a pick or two.  I know a lot of people want us to go after Kyrou - and yes, maybe you ask - but I dont think StLouis is giving up Thomas and Kyrou, and i think RT is the better fit for us.  

 

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

interestingly, one of our forward Prospects (bitten) has been developing some nice chemistry with his OHL centreman, none other than St. Louis' Robert Thomas - the same guy some rumours have suggested we are looking hard at.    Bitten is a smallish but speedy forward projecting a lot like gallagher (with a couple more inches). Both he and Thomas are "julien-type" players too, both fairly defensively repsonsible even at their young age.   Wouldnt it be great to acquire a guy like Thomas & have those two graduate to the big club next year?  

If St. Louis is really serious about winning now, i would make a strong pitch for them to acquire Pacioretty.  They get a premiere goal scorere (just entering a hot streak) for 2 more playoffs guaranteed.  We get Thomas, either a young roster defensman like Vince Dunn, or a prospect like Schmaltz  and a pick or two.  I know a lot of people want us to go after Kyrou - and yes, maybe you ask - but I dont think StLouis is giving up Thomas and Kyrou, and i think RT is the better fit for us.  

 

Agreed. Both Thomas and Kyrou are excellent prospects, but we really need help at center. IF you can acquire a Thomas and draft a top D man and IF Poehling and/or Ikonen pan out, then you could conceivably be looking at a long-term vision of Thomas as your 1C, Poehling/Ikonen as your 2C, and Danault as your 3C, with Drouin and Galchenyuk anchoring a solid LW. So perhaps

Galchenyuk-Thomas-Gallagher

Drouin-Poehling-Hudon

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Carr-McCarron-Scherbak

 

Maybe we get lucky and a guy like Bitten or Ikonen steps up too, but everything is really anchored around finding a 1C. It'd still be nice to find a power forward too and yes, you could easily draft a Tkachuk or Zadina or Svechnikov this year, but then the D still needs a lot of work. In any case, I would think the GM should have something like the above in his head, and then as he needs to, you improve upon each position as you can.

 

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The New York Post reporting today that the Isles are having major issues with their arena leases... their current Brooklyn lease expires next year, but the new arena isn't expected to be ready until the 2021-22 season. So they have a break of three years without a definitive home. Apparently, Barclays, which owns the Brooklyn area, is losing money every time the Isles play there and is trying to convince the team to play more games in Long Island. The Isles have already agreed to play 12 games in Long Island next year, with increases in that number to 21 games in three years, but Barclays is apparently pushing for this to be more and saying they won't renew the Isles lease in Brooklyn unless the team agrees to this. Both the team and Barclays have the option to cancel the 25-year lease agreement for the new building by next year if they can't agree on what to do beforehand.

So all this to say that the Isles' arena problems have not yet been solved and that at best, they have a long-term home but for the next three years, they would be splitting time between Brooklyn and Long Island. Larry Brooks wrote a piece today in the Post saying this could be a major factor to dissuade Tavares from re-signing with the Isles and perhaps a reason why he's waiting for his free agency to commit. So perhaps a glimmer of hope that he might make it to the open market. Combine that with the Habs having the cap space to sign him, the need for a 1C, and the fact Bergevin is friends with JT's agent (and apparently allowed to talk to his agent about wanting a player like Tavares as long as he doesn't name him) and maybe we finally have a perfect storm brewing to have a shot at him.

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48 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

The New York Post reporting today that the Isles are having major issues with their arena leases... their current Brooklyn lease expires next year, but the new arena isn't expected to be ready until the 2021-22 season. So they have a break of three years without a definitive home. Apparently, Barclays, which owns the Brooklyn area, is losing money every time the Isles play there and is trying to convince the team to play more games in Long Island. The Isles have already agreed to play 12 games in Long Island next year, with increases in that number to 21 games in three years, but Barclays is apparently pushing for this to be more and saying they won't renew the Isles lease in Brooklyn unless the team agrees to this. Both the team and Barclays have the option to cancel the 25-year lease agreement for the new building by next year if they can't agree on what to do beforehand.

So all this to say that the Isles' arena problems have not yet been solved and that at best, they have a long-term home but for the next three years, they would be splitting time between Brooklyn and Long Island. Larry Brooks wrote a piece today in the Post saying this could be a major factor to dissuade Tavares from re-signing with the Isles and perhaps a reason why he's waiting for his free agency to commit. So perhaps a glimmer of hope that he might make it to the open market. Combine that with the Habs having the cap space to sign him, the need for a 1C, and the fact Bergevin is friends with JT's agent (and apparently allowed to talk to his agent about wanting a player like Tavares as long as he doesn't name him) and maybe we finally have a perfect storm brewing to have a shot at him.

Not holding out hope, but it would be coup.

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Rumor involving Price. Would you do it? https://www.gohabsgo.com/articles/jean-charles-lajoie-drops-a-major-carey-price-rumo/  
 

the St. Louis Blues have shown interest in acquiring Price and general manager Doug Armstrong is ready to offer up Jake Allen, Robert Thomas and a first-round pick.

Lajoie added that the Habs would rather have Carter Hutton to go along with Thomas and the draft pick instead of the struggling Allen.

I like the idea of getting out from under Price's contract and going with youth and Lindgren for a major rebuild. The current habs haven't been able to win a cup. Price is weak in the post season.

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4 hours ago, ThinkOutsidethebox said:

Rumor involving Price. Would you do it? https://www.gohabsgo.com/articles/jean-charles-lajoie-drops-a-major-carey-price-rumo/  
 

the St. Louis Blues have shown interest in acquiring Price and general manager Doug Armstrong is ready to offer up Jake Allen, Robert Thomas and a first-round pick.

Lajoie added that the Habs would rather have Carter Hutton to go along with Thomas and the draft pick instead of the struggling Allen.

I like the idea of getting out from under Price's contract and going with youth and Lindgren for a major rebuild. The current habs haven't been able to win a cup. Price is weak in the post season.

I would be very interested, but I think we could get more than that for Price. Allen is worthless, I don't think he's a top 20 goalie in the league and if he's not you probably end up going with Lindgren instead, so in this deal, he's a throw-in to provide some cap relief for Stl, not an asset for us. I think we could legitimately ask for at least one or two more assets from the Blues... e.g. Price for Thomas, a 1st, Hutton, and one of Dunn, Kyrou, or Kostin.

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6 hours ago, ThinkOutsidethebox said:

Rumor involving Price. Would you do it? https://www.gohabsgo.com/articles/jean-charles-lajoie-drops-a-major-carey-price-rumo/  
 

the St. Louis Blues have shown interest in acquiring Price and general manager Doug Armstrong is ready to offer up Jake Allen, Robert Thomas and a first-round pick.

Lajoie added that the Habs would rather have Carter Hutton to go along with Thomas and the draft pick instead of the struggling Allen.

I like the idea of getting out from under Price's contract and going with youth and Lindgren for a major rebuild. The current habs haven't been able to win a cup. Price is weak in the post season.

I would be very interested in dealing Price to the Blues if possible.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I would be very interested in dealing Price to the Blues if possible.

If we were to ever deal Price, then i would hope it would be a Western team. The less we saw of him the better.  I think he has a no trade, so i would guess he might wave it for a team like Vancouver (home). Not too sure if the Blues would tweak his interest.

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I would be very interested, but I think we could get more than that for Price. Allen is worthless, I don't think he's a top 20 goalie in the league and if he's not you probably end up going with Lindgren instead, so in this deal, he's a throw-in to provide some cap relief for Stl, not an asset for us. I think we could legitimately ask for at least one or two more assets from the Blues... e.g. Price for Thomas, a 1st, Hutton, and one of Dunn, Kyrou, or Kostin.

Agreed.   I suspect the rumor is hogwash but lets play the game anyway - Allen is definitely a cap relief from St. Louis so we cant count him as an asset.  Thomas is an excellent starting point.  Their 1st is fine but not particularly high so I would want another - 2019 is fine - 1st or 2nd.  I would want Dunn for sure because he's at least an established player.  Maybe Kyrou or Kostin as well.

Something like:

Price + Byron

for 

Thomas + Dunn + Kyrou + Allen (cap relief) + 1st (2018) + 2nd (2019)

 


If the blues are seriously entertaining the idea of trading for price its because they realize their window is now. They're deep enough on the blueline to absorb the loss of Dunn. The other players are all non-roster anyway, so i can see them giving up several to get the perceived "best goalie in the world."

I still dont buy that MB would move price though. 

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21 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

I'd be very down for this but I personally don't see Allen as being just a throw in or cap relief. The guy has his struggles but is still a quality starter

No, its probably unfair for me to call him "cap relief" but his value in a trade is probably minimal. I doubt the blues could get more than a 2nd or mid-level player for him. Although thats more to do with the market for goalies (aside from "elite" guys like Price, or Luongo back in the day) than his actual abilities.  

I think Allen could potentially be a perfect compliment to Lindgren (assuming we dont keep Niemi long-term) because we're going to need a steady vet for those stretches where Lindgren will undoubtedly struggle, but i dont think you can look at him as a huge asset coming back the other way simply because his value is not very high and he's still signed for several more years.

I think its moot though. As long as MB is GM of this team I dont think Price is even on the table.  Even if Nashville offered us Josi, Subban and Rinne I dont think MB would bite. 

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https://world.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/failed-blockbuster-deal-could-have-changed-everything-for-two-canadian-teams?ref=Christine

so friedman apparently said the canucks were offering horvat, tanev and a 1st.... thank god we got weber instead, hes been single handedly keeping this team out of the basement. and our prospect pipeline is already overly full, especially at center 

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14 hours ago, ThinkOutsidethebox said:

Rumor involving Price. Would you do it? https://www.gohabsgo.com/articles/jean-charles-lajoie-drops-a-major-carey-price-rumo/  
 

the St. Louis Blues have shown interest in acquiring Price and general manager Doug Armstrong is ready to offer up Jake Allen, Robert Thomas and a first-round pick.

Lajoie added that the Habs would rather have Carter Hutton to go along with Thomas and the draft pick instead of the struggling Allen.

I like the idea of getting out from under Price's contract and going with youth and Lindgren for a major rebuild. The current habs haven't been able to win a cup. Price is weak in the post season.

Yup....that contract could be an albatross around our necks if things stay as they are. I'd rather get rid of a few guys and suffer for a time under a rebuild. The current team is in decline and going nowhere.

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24 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

https://world.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/failed-blockbuster-deal-could-have-changed-everything-for-two-canadian-teams?ref=Christine

so friedman apparently said the canucks were offering horvat, tanev and a 1st.... thank god we got weber instead, hes been single handedly keeping this team out of the basement. and our prospect pipeline is already overly full, especially at center 

If true it shows just how incompetant MB is.

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

https://world.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/failed-blockbuster-deal-could-have-changed-everything-for-two-canadian-teams?ref=Christine

so friedman apparently said the canucks were offering horvat, tanev and a 1st.... thank god we got weber instead, hes been single handedly keeping this team out of the basement. and our prospect pipeline is already overly full, especially at center 

Yeah, there's pretty strong evidence that we were close to trading PK for Draitsatl, Nurse & a 1st too.

The really dumb thing is that you've got 2 deals that would have been so much better in hindsight (I get that they were riskier because all players coming back were unproven) but in both cases it was multiple players.

Instead we got a 1 for 1 with a much older player who plays a physical game and has played a lot more games than subban.  HIs injury this year is not only unsurprising, it was wholly predictable.   

Had we been hell-bent on dealing with Nashville could we not have at least gotten a prospect like Trenin as well as Weber? Or at least a high pick? Of course we most likely would have converted any or all of them to LW.  


The running joke on another site is that we will win the draft lottery, pick Dahlin & convert him to LW. 

 

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51 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, there's pretty strong evidence that we were close to trading PK for Draitsatl, Nurse & a 1st too.

The really dumb thing is that you've got 2 deals that would have been so much better in hindsight (I get that they were riskier because all players coming back were unproven) but in both cases it was multiple players.

Instead we got a 1 for 1 with a much older player who plays a physical game and has played a lot more games than subban.  HIs injury this year is not only unsurprising, it was wholly predictable.   

Had we been hell-bent on dealing with Nashville could we not have at least gotten a prospect like Trenin as well as Weber? Or at least a high pick? Of course we most likely would have converted any or all of them to LW.  


The running joke on another site is that we will win the draft lottery, pick Dahlin & convert him to LW. 

 

Yup, we're already the laughingstock of the NHL thanks to our GM & Owner, might as well keep up appearances. 

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Oh my god I am going to scream. It was bad enough that we could have got Taylor Hall (and presumably more if they thought he was worth Larsson) for Subban but this is horrid. 

Horvat and Tanev alone would have been a better package than Weber. Let alone adding 5th overall pick which could have been Tkachuk, Keller, McAvoy, Chychrun or Fabbro, AND we still would have been able to take Sergachev. I hope this isn't true because I am livid and utterly blown away by how badly they screwed this up. Even assuming nothing changes with Radulov and Markov and assuming the Drouin trade still happens you get:

Pacioretty-Danault-Keller/Tkachuk

Galchenyuk-Horvat-Drouin

Hudon-Plekanec-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Shaw-Byron

Mete-Tanev

Benn-Petry

Alzner-Schlemko

 

 

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It probably is true. He got the best deal for what he was thinking: win now! The other deals would have been rebuilds. I agree it was the wrong move. 

Although, we don't know what we could get for Weber if we did rebuild now... and we may never know. It may not be as good as PK but could still be a good return 

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On Allen... as I said, I don't see him as a top 20 goalie in the league. Among others, I have Price, Vasilevsky, Crawford, Bobrovsky, Fleury, Rask, Gibson, Andersen, Quick, Holtby, Schneider, Jones, Rinne, Lundqvist, Dubnyk, Bishop, Talbot, and Murray ahead of him. Carter Hutton has much better numbers than Allen on the same team, and frankly I think Allen's numbers are propped up to begin with by playing on a good team. Guys like Hellebucyk, Craig Anderson, Halak, Lehner, Howard, and Reimer are probably in the same grouping as him talent-wise, and Allen is already 27, so it's not like we expect him to suddenly become a lot better. So to me, he's a throw-in. I don't think he's going to be a star goalie and I'm not confident he's good enough to carry a team through the playoffs unless that team is a lot better than ours. Plus, he's still got 3 years left at a cap hit of 4.35M, so it's not a small number. I just don't see him as a key asset in a trade.

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

It probably is true. He got the best deal for what he was thinking: win now! The other deals would have been rebuilds. I agree it was the wrong move. 

Although, we don't know what we could get for Weber if we did rebuild now... and we may never know. It may not be as good as PK but could still be a good return 

I dunno, to me Tanev+Horvat+Tkachuk is better as a win now move than just Weber even as early as October 2016. Even if we ignore hindsight and say the Habs might not have taken Tkachuk or might not have kept him in the NHL as a rookie just Tanev and Horvat IMO had more value in October 2016 than just Weber, especially to a team that was still honest to god running Desharnais as a regular top 6 center. 

Tanev is one of, if not the best shutdown defensemen in the game, and Horvat at the time of the trade was at least a decent 2C coming off a 40 point season at age 20, and trending upwards. Just those two guys alone IMO would have been more valuable, Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov / Galchenyuk-Horvat-Gallagher / Lehkonen-Plekaenc-Byron / Andrighetto-Desharnais-Shaw / Markov-Tanev / Emelin-Petry / Beaulieu-Pateryn is much better than what we had last year IMO. If we assume they'd take Tkachuk at #5 that's just gravy and adds another legitimate top 6 forward to the team.

Going down the rabbit hole even further, it's less likely the Habs trade Sergachev for Drouin in this scenario because they have Horvat and Tkachuk/Keller. That gives you a Sergachev-Tanev / Mete-Petry top 4 going forward. Even if they did do the Sergachev-Drouin trade he would likely be on Horvat's wing instead of at center.

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