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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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^^ If Snow won't move Tavares, I highly doubt he'll move Barzal, who is already a top-tier center in the league at a very young age. We missed our chance on him last year. I'm sure Snow would move Beauvillier or Del Colle or Ho Sang, but none of those guys are a blue chip center prospect like we need to make sure we get in return. Second best would be a top D prospect. But wingers aren't going to help us address our problems right now. In that regard, Stl or Ana or Edm or Cal are better fits for us as trading partners than the Isles.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm sure MB can find some other unwanted depth guys to add to our roster in their place. Have confidence in your GM to do what he's good at!

Oh man.....can you imagine the number of depth players he could get with just the cap space he has to spend? He could open a business and supply the entire NHL.

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

According to P. LeBrun Marc Bergevin has updated his "untouchables" list to include 2 more player.  its now Carey Price, Shea Weber, Victor Mete and Jonathan Drouin.  Seems silly to me - first of all because Weber is exactly the type of guy we should be trying to move while he still has value - but also because unless you have  a player like Connor McDavid or a young Sidney Crosby, NO ONE should be untouchable.    The only true untouchable on a team should be a guy who is peerless in the league.  But even then, if you get a haul like Quebec got for Lindros, even that guy may not be untouchable. 

Sure, there are plenty of guys you wouldnt move unless you got higher than fair market value for them - on our team, a guy like Danault who is super versatile, young and dependable I would consider more or less a "core" guy.  I wouldnt look to shop him and frankly it would be extremely unlikely id have any interest in trading him, but if someone offered me a younger more skilled player?  You bet Id move him. 

MB just doesnt seem to understand what he's doing. Maybe its because its just so hard. 

Totally agree maas. You may keep Weber if you're in win now mode but obviously we won't be in that mode for a few more years. Swallow your pride MB and get what you can for him.

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I just think its absolutely crazy that we are not trading Price or Weber. How can we rebuild with these 2 players? It just doesn't add up. MB has to go! Even this talk about trading Pacioretty for an established young scorer.... why would anyone do that!? They are trying to win, next year when we need to try to win 3 years from now. 

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1 minute ago, habsisme said:

I just think its absolutely crazy that we are not trading Price or Weber. How can we rebuild with these 2 players? It just doesn't add up. MB has to go! Even this talk about trading Pacioretty for an established young scorer.... why would anyone do that!? They are trying to win, next year when we need to try to win 3 years from now. 

these guys are so far off the reservation.

and you read stuff like "schlemko is available" right we are in last place so lets trade schlemko and start the turnaround. maybe we will get a gem in the 18th round.

the rebuild has to include bergevin, he either wont acknowledge his mistakes or is possibly so crazy he doesnt think he has made any, which is my sneaking suspicion

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7 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

That is something he'll NEVER do IMO.

Really good article by Brendan Kelly here.

Kelly suggests that Molson will not fire Bergevin this summer but give him another year.  If thats the case, Kelly thinks that Molson should hire a director of Hockey Operations.  Someone with a ton of experience who Marc Bergevin will actually have to answer to (since there's no way Molson, who believes he knows less than Bergevin, is going to do anything).

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

Really good article by Brendan Kelly here.

Kelly suggests that Molson will not fire Bergevin this summer but give him another year.  If thats the case, Kelly thinks that Molson should hire a director of Hockey Operations.  Someone with a ton of experience who Marc Bergevin will actually have to answer to (since there's no way Molson, who believes he knows less than Bergevin, is going to do anything).

The tragedy is that a year from now we don't know what the value of these players will be... and then we have nothing to rebuild with. We have an opportunity to really stack the cupboards and were letting it slip away 

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5 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I just think its absolutely crazy that we are not trading Price or Weber. How can we rebuild with these 2 players? It just doesn't add up. MB has to go! Even this talk about trading Pacioretty for an established young scorer.... why would anyone do that!? They are trying to win, next year when we need to try to win 3 years from now. 

Price is someone i think you can keep on your roster & rebuild.  Weber, no, but there's certainly a history of Goalies playing well into their late 30s. I think you can keep one high priced player on your rebuild roster (and I dont think there's many teams that would take on Price's contract even though i think there are lots who would love to have him) but Weber?   He still has value. He still would fetch a very strong return (especially if you're ok with prospects & picks) so to make him untouchable is madness. 

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18 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Really good article by Brendan Kelly here.

Kelly suggests that Molson will not fire Bergevin this summer but give him another year.  If thats the case, Kelly thinks that Molson should hire a director of Hockey Operations.  Someone with a ton of experience who Marc Bergevin will actually have to answer to (since there's no way Molson, who believes he knows less than Bergevin, is going to do anything).

Who's to say that Molson knows less than Bergevin? From my perspective, Bergevin knows pretty little, in that he knows what it takes to build a roster for the 1980's when he was a player but hasn't adapted in the last to building one for today's game. Bergevin's made a few good deals in his career, but they've been largely overshadowed by bad decisions, the catastrophic Subban trade, and recurrent mistakes along the same themes. I'm not even saying this to exaggerate but I honestly believe I could have done a better job with the situation Bergevin took over in, and I don't think it's a stretch to think Molson has better hockey judgment than Bergevin. Hopefully.

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16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Who's to say that Molson knows less than Bergevin? From my perspective, Bergevin knows pretty little, in that he knows what it takes to build a roster for the 1980's when he was a player but hasn't adapted in the last to building one for today's game. Bergevin's made a few good deals in his career, but they've been largely overshadowed by bad decisions, the catastrophic Subban trade, and recurrent mistakes along the same themes. I'm not even saying this to exaggerate but I honestly believe I could have done a better job with the situation Bergevin took over in, and I don't think it's a stretch to think Molson has better hockey judgment than Bergevin. Hopefully.

I dont disagree, but like i said in my post " Molson, who believes he knows less than Bergevin,"

I think its a pretty safe bet he believes that. he's gone on record several times saying so in fact. 

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30 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I dont disagree, but like i said in my post " Molson, who believes he knows less than Bergevin,"

I think its a pretty safe bet he believes that. he's gone on record several times saying so in fact. 

And I agree with you that Molson overvalues Bergevin's knowledge. I posted a couple of weeks ago about a commentary I saw regarding the fact that most GM's are ex-players or the sons of former GM's, with Chayka and Lamoriello being the only two exceptions among the active managers. Too many clubs over-value past playing experience as being a reason why someone would have good judgment. Sure, it helps to know the inner workings of the NHL, but at the same time, you can clearly see Bergevin is basing decisions on what worked 30 years ago instead of what's current. A fresh outsider's look might be worth something, especially when you see things other teams don't. If everyone looks at the game the same way, chances are you'll end up middle of the pack. A different perspective maybe puts you behind but also maybe puts you ahead, and in the end, the NHL is about winning Cups. There's no real benefit to being a middle of the pack team year in and year out. It's much better to take a risk and shoot for the stars.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Really good article by Brendan Kelly here.

Kelly suggests that Molson will not fire Bergevin this summer but give him another year.  If thats the case, Kelly thinks that Molson should hire a director of Hockey Operations.  Someone with a ton of experience who Marc Bergevin will actually have to answer to (since there's no way Molson, who believes he knows less than Bergevin, is going to do anything).

I had already read that article actually. However it would be nothing more than a band-aid solution and a waste of resources and money to hire a director of operations IMO. Get to the root of the problem and fire MB period because of his gross incompetence and micromanaging. But unfortunately, somehow I don't believe Molson will ever do it because he relies too heavily on MB and his so-called hockey-sense.

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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Tavares-and-Isles-to-Meet-as-Habs-Prepare-to-Go-All-In/1/90748

so eklund says here we are preparing a massive offer for tavares. 

although it is eklund, you do have to figure MB knows this is the one move he could make to save his job and reverse a lot of the damage done in one big move.

i dont see how its not price going back the other way though, which I would be fine with. 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-montreal-canadiens-owner-hints-at-possible-blockbuster-deals

this i found  alot more interesting, seems to be legitimately sourced. molson knows we need to rebuild and thats the plan....ok good

thinking of hiring a preseident to help the GM UGH WRONG unless its the NEW gm

 

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18 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Tavares-and-Isles-to-Meet-as-Habs-Prepare-to-Go-All-In/1/90748

so eklund says here we are preparing a massive offer for tavares. 

although it is eklund, you do have to figure MB knows this is the one move he could make to save his job and reverse a lot of the damage done in one big move.

i dont see how its not price going back the other way though, which I would be fine with. 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-montreal-canadiens-owner-hints-at-possible-blockbuster-deals

this i found  alot more interesting, seems to be legitimately sourced. molson knows we need to rebuild and thats the plan....ok good

thinking of hiring a preseident to help the GM UGH WRONG unless its the NEW gm

 

Is MB going to turn Tavares into a defenceman?

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17 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Tavares-and-Isles-to-Meet-as-Habs-Prepare-to-Go-All-In/1/90748

so eklund says here we are preparing a massive offer for tavares. 

although it is eklund, you do have to figure MB knows this is the one move he could make to save his job and reverse a lot of the damage done in one big move.

i dont see how its not price going back the other way though, which I would be fine with. 

https://www.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/report-montreal-canadiens-owner-hints-at-possible-blockbuster-deals

this i found  alot more interesting, seems to be legitimately sourced. molson knows we need to rebuild and thats the plan....ok good

thinking of hiring a preseident to help the GM UGH WRONG unless its the NEW gm

 

Tavares solves a lot but I'd still rather do a full rebuild unless he manages to get a top tier, puck moving left densman too... THEN... well then I think we have a pretty solid team

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^^ Jimmy Murphy is full of garbage. He's the Tony Marinaro of the Boston online media community. They have a few contacts but they exaggerate everything they hear and 9 times out of 10, it's more Eklund-like guesses than anything. So take all the Tavares and trade talk with a grain of salt.

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On a separate note, Nick Kypreos (who is more credible) reporting the ask for Pacioretty around the league is a 1st, a 2nd, a top prospect, and a roster player. Some feel that's too much, but remember that Pacioretty is a better player than Duchene, even if he's a couple of years older and a winger. But he's a better goal scorer, a better defensive player, and on a friendlier contract.

So remember what Duchene hauled in: a 1st from Ott (which could end up being a top 5 pick, although I don't know if the pick is lottery-protected), a 2nd from Nashville, a 3rd from Ottawa, a 2017 1st round center, a 2nd round D man who had already shown he could play in the NHL, and a highly touted 2nd round scoring winger, not to mention a back-up goalie. So yeah, I don't know that we'll get 6 top-tier pieces from someone, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 3 top pieces (assuming the roster player is negligible). If it's Stl, then the ask could easily be Thomas, Dunn, and a 1st. If it's Anaheim, Steele, Montour, and a 1st or 2nd. If it's Calgary, Bennett and Vilimaki. I just don't see that as being unreasonable for an elite scorer that could potentially push a team to a Cup run for two years (plus more if they choose to re-sign). Look at Evander Kane, who is a UFA at the end of this year, on a large contract, has a history of off-ice issues, and isn't as good a scorer as Pacioretty. The ask there is rumored to be a 1st, a top prospect, a roster player, and a conditional pick if Kane re-signs (according to Darren Dreger). So that's basically the same package as what we're asking for MP, and we've easily got the better return. I think MB's ask here is completely reasonable given the market and he shouldn't settle for less than 3 top pieces including a 1st and a blue chip center prospect.

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3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

On a separate note, Nick Kypreos (who is more credible) reporting the ask for Pacioretty around the league is a 1st, a 2nd, a top prospect, and a roster player. Some feel that's too much, but remember that Pacioretty is a better player than Duchene, even if he's a couple of years older and a winger. But he's a better goal scorer, a better defensive player, and on a friendlier contract.

So remember what Duchene hauled in: a 1st from Ott (which could end up being a top 5 pick, although I don't know if the pick is lottery-protected), a 2nd from Nashville, a 3rd from Ottawa, a 2017 1st round center, a 2nd round D man who had already shown he could play in the NHL, and a highly touted 2nd round scoring winger, not to mention a back-up goalie. So yeah, I don't know that we'll get 6 top-tier pieces from someone, but I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 3 top pieces (assuming the roster player is negligible). If it's Stl, then the ask could easily be Thomas, Dunn, and a 1st. If it's Anaheim, Steele, Montour, and a 1st or 2nd. If it's Calgary, Bennett and Vilimaki. I just don't see that as being unreasonable for an elite scorer that could potentially push a team to a Cup run for two years (plus more if they choose to re-sign). Look at Evander Kane, who is a UFA at the end of this year, on a large contract, has a history of off-ice issues, and isn't as good a scorer as Pacioretty. The ask there is rumored to be a 1st, a top prospect, a roster player, and a conditional pick if Kane re-signs (according to Darren Dreger). So that's basically the same package as what we're asking for MP, and we've easily got the better return. I think MB's ask here is completely reasonable given the market and he shouldn't settle for less than 3 top pieces including a 1st and a blue chip center prospect.

Yes i agree. No big deal, if they can't give us at least that, then we will keep him. At the deadline next year, I'd say take what you can get if we are in the same position but til then, no need to take less than what he's worth

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44 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Yes i agree. No big deal, if they can't give us at least that, then we will keep him. At the deadline next year, I'd say take what you can get if we are in the same position but til then, no need to take less than what he's worth

Or the draft in the summer this year...

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He will never be worth more than he is right now.  Having him available for this years playoff run is part of the value. We cant afford to sit around as long as sakic did.

Yes he is worth the same or better than duchene, but we arent gonna get it.

a 1st and a good center prospect, or a center prospect and LD prospect and I take it. 

This is why we should have been working on trading him for the last 2 years. I have been suggesting it for a long time and this is why, now the clock has run out.

Throw this on the list of atrocious management. GM'ing is hard!

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15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

On a separate note, Nick Kypreos (who is more credible) reporting the ask for Pacioretty around the league is a 1st, a 2nd, a top prospect, and a roster player. Some feel that's too much, but remember that Pacioretty is a better player than Duchene, even if he's a couple of years older and a winger. But he's a better goal scorer, a better defensive player, and on a friendlier contract.

MB is asking for all that for Max and he traded Subban for Weber straight up  ...lol

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