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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


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On 2/2/2018 at 7:58 PM, habsisme said:

I just think its absolutely crazy that we are not trading Price or Weber. How can we rebuild with these 2 players? It just doesn't add up. MB has to go! Even this talk about trading Pacioretty for an established young scorer.... why would anyone do that!? They are trying to win, next year when we need to try to win 3 years from now. 

Bergevin doesn't want to "rebuild." Clearly his job is safe heading into 2018-2019... he's going "retool" and move forward with those players HE is responsible for (Price's new contract, Weber acquired for Subban, Drouin acquired for Sergachev). Keeping those players feeds into some delusion of MB's that this is somehow not his fault.

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According to good ol Eklund, the lightning may have interest in Shea Weber now.  "very surprised at how much talk there is around Shea Weber right now..." Says Ek. Apparently we want 1 or 2 left wings. 

I kind of get the feeling he isnt even trying any more.  Like what's next? Edmonton is interested in one of our centres? 

 

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45 minutes ago, maas_art said:

According to good ol Eklund, the lightning may have interest in Shea Weber now.  "very surprised at how much talk there is around Shea Weber right now..." Says Ek. Apparently we want 1 or 2 left wings. 

I kind of get the feeling he isnt even trying any more.  Like what's next? Edmonton is interested in one of our centres? 

 

Did Eklund ever try?

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8 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Did Eklund ever try?

i think he did. I think he has sources in Pennsylvania (or at least had them) as he was batting waaaay higher with both penguins and flyers rumours (and teams that they involved).  But most of the other stuff it seemed like he would look at message boards and make calculated guesses.  So for example on Max - its not difficult to see what teams may pay for a rental, what teams need a scoring winger and what teams have a top end centre prospect.  Any semi-knowledgeable hockey fan could come up with half a dozen destinations that make sense for both teams.   But Weber to Tampa?  This is already probably the best team in the league. They have one of the the best defensive corps. Sure, Weber would be great there, especially in a second pairing/first pp role but at what cost?  They cant afford him, they would be trading away key pieces to get him (when they're already contenders) and they'd be stuck with his contract when they already have a number of big ones.  Its such an odd rumor. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

But Weber to Tampa?  This is already probably the best team in the league. They have one of the the best defensive corps. Sure, Weber would be great there, especially in a second pairing/first pp role but at what cost?  They cant afford him, they would be trading away key pieces to get him (when they're already contenders) and they'd be stuck with his contract when they already have a number of big ones.  Its such an odd rumor. 

I don't think it's all that crazy actually. IMO Tampa's defense isn't all that special and it's certainly the weak point of the team, Hedman is incredible and Stralman is still good but Sergachev is still very clearly a teenager and after that Dotchin/Girardi/Coburn/Sustr are meh. Weber gives them Hedman-Stralman / Sergachev-Weber as a top 4 which is probably just a hair behind Nashville and Anaheim among the best in the NHL. Their cap/contract situation isn't so bad either, Stamkos, Palat, Johnson, Hedman, Killorn, and Callahan are all locked in, and they have 11M this summer to sign Namestnikov and a couple depth guys, and then 31M (minus whatever Namestnikov costs) to sign Kucherov, and sign or replace Stralman, Girardi, Coburn, Point and some depth guys. They'd be able to fit Weber in without much trouble as is, and in a worst case scenario they can move Callahan's 5.8M. 

IMO a deal probably hinges on Brayden Point, he's already basically an established top line center at 21 and looks like he has an elite ceiling. If that's a non-starter for TB (which honestly it probably is), there's a chance you could get back value in quantity through some combination of Howden/Foote/Raddysh/Cirelli/Katchouk/1st although I'm definitely less thrilled about that idea than a deal built around Point. I certainly don't think it's likely because I doubt TB deals Point and I doubt the Habs are willing to deal Weber for a collection of prospects but I think something built around Weber (retained @ 6M) and maybe Byron for Point+ isn't completely insane.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

i think he did. I think he has sources in Pennsylvania (or at least had them) as he was batting waaaay higher with both penguins and flyers rumours (and teams that they involved).  But most of the other stuff it seemed like he would look at message boards and make calculated guesses.  So for example on Max - its not difficult to see what teams may pay for a rental, what teams need a scoring winger and what teams have a top end centre prospect.  Any semi-knowledgeable hockey fan could come up with half a dozen destinations that make sense for both teams.   But Weber to Tampa?  This is already probably the best team in the league. They have one of the the best defensive corps. Sure, Weber would be great there, especially in a second pairing/first pp role but at what cost?  They cant afford him, they would be trading away key pieces to get him (when they're already contenders) and they'd be stuck with his contract when they already have a number of big ones.  Its such an odd rumor. 

Weber for Sergachev straight up? How about Patches for McDonagh straight up?

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i don't think i would want draft picks or young players for max, this team is horrible at developing players, until MB and his staff are let go, i would not want him making any deals, besides MB is horrible at scouting players, we would end up with more fringe wingers

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3 hours ago, Noob616 said:

I don't think it's all that crazy actually. IMO Tampa's defense isn't all that special and it's certainly the weak point of the team, Hedman is incredible and Stralman is still good but Sergachev is still very clearly a teenager and after that Dotchin/Girardi/Coburn/Sustr are meh. Weber gives them Hedman-Stralman / Sergachev-Weber as a top 4 which is probably just a hair behind Nashville and Anaheim among the best in the NHL.

Hedman is Norris material

Sergachev despite age is tearing it up

Girardi/Stralman are solid 3 and 4

Their weakness, which is minor at best, is their 5th/6th guys ... yes their offence is driving the wins, but they also have the 4th lowest team goals against.    They are set on defence and Weber just doesn't fit over there given what they'd potentially have to give up, the chemistry they already have, his age and his salary.   If Weber was a UFA this summer then and maybe then Tampa picks him up as rental.

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From GoHabs Go:  "It is well known that the Stars have been watching the Canadiens closely by sending scouts to various games for several weeks now, but Marc Bergevin sent two of his scouts on a special mission over the weekend.

Two Canadiens scouts attended the Texas Stars AHL game, once again fuelling a possible trade involving Pacioretty as well as some prospects from Dallas."

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34 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

From GoHabs Go:  "It is well known that the Stars have been watching the Canadiens closely by sending scouts to various games for several weeks now, but Marc Bergevin sent two of his scouts on a special mission over the weekend.

Two Canadiens scouts attended the Texas Stars AHL game, once again fuelling a possible trade involving Pacioretty as well as some prospects from Dallas."

Maybe we're scouting Brian Flynn :P

 

Honestly I have no idea who we would want from the stars thats currently in the minors.  Dickinson is interesting but he's with the big club i think. Gurianov would be nice but he's a winger.  Im assuming MB would want either Elie or Hintz, since both are left wingers. 

 

 

 

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Habs with two scouts at Ducks-Leafs tonight. Both teams are in the playoff race, so if anything you'd think we'd be trying to trade them roster players for prospects/picks, but apparently we're scouting someone's roster. We just played Anaheim, so either we're going back for a better look there (which could mean something serious) or else we're scouting Toronto. If it's Anaheim, you'd have to wonder about Brandon Montour as the first target or maybe Rakell. Pacioretty has been rumored to be on Anaheim's wish list. From Toronto, the Weber for Nylander talk is the most common rumor. That would help both teams, although MB would need to make another move to patch up his D, not like when he dealt Sergachev and then did nothing to fix the D.

Or, given how bad our pro scouting has been, maybe we're there to scout the return of Roman Polak. And I wish I were 100% joking, but who knows any more.

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10 hours ago, maas_art said:

Maybe we're scouting Brian Flynn :P

 

Honestly I have no idea who we would want from the stars thats currently in the minors.  Dickinson is interesting but he's with the big club i think. Gurianov would be nice but he's a winger.  Im assuming MB would want either Elie or Hintz, since both are left wingers. 

 

 

 

Think 3rd or 4th liners and/or grit and character.

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Per Eklund:

On Pacioretty...
The Carolina Hurricanes are VERY Interested in Max. The Habs are asking for a lot, but with Pacioretty you do get a lot more than just a player...

Not sure what he means there... lol

On Galcheynuk...
This is really a tight one, but I would put the odds of Galcheynuk being moved at closer to 80%. This is a move the Canadiens feel that they have to make I am told. There are three teams VERY serious too.. Nashville, St Louis, and the NY Islanders...

Really wish we would not trade Galchenyuk, pretty sure we're going to regret it massively but I guess if its inevitable and we get FMV for him then such is life.  Even moving Patches and AG we have like 7 natural left wings so if we trade those 2 for centres and LH PMD  then i guess it makes us better in the long run. 

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From GHG: "Many hockey experts, both locally and nationally, believe that the 35-year-old could bring back a second-round pick and there are those who even think he could fetch a first rounder.

However, Bob McKenzie is not a member of this school.  The veteran TSN insider told 690 AM today that Plekanec will not get such a big return, he even argued that he would only be worth a fourth possibly third-round pick on the market."

Also from GHG: "

Engels is aware that the Habs are very weak down the middle and that Plekanec can still be useful if he re-signs for a much smaller salary for a couple more years, but he mentions that Pleky can still be traded now and then re-sign with the Habs on July 1st.

The Sportsnet reporter believes that currently, the most important thing is to get a good pick in the upcoming draft so he has more picks to trade at the draft if need be. He also said the Golden Knights, Sharks, Lightning, Penguins and Blue Jackets could be interested in the Habs veteran forward."

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4 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

From GHG: "Many hockey experts, both locally and nationally, believe that the 35-year-old could bring back a second-round pick and there are those who even think he could fetch a first rounder.

However, Bob McKenzie is not a member of this school.  The veteran TSN insider told 690 AM today that Plekanec will not get such a big return, he even argued that he would only be worth a fourth possibly third-round pick on the market."

Also from GHG: "

Engels is aware that the Habs are very weak down the middle and that Plekanec can still be useful if he re-signs for a much smaller salary for a couple more years, but he mentions that Pleky can still be traded now and then re-sign with the Habs on July 1st.

The Sportsnet reporter believes that currently, the most important thing is to get a good pick in the upcoming draft so he has more picks to trade at the draft if need be. He also said the Golden Knights, Sharks, Lightning, Penguins and Blue Jackets could be interested in the Habs veteran forward."

Yeah the return is totally going to depend on the team obviously.  I could see Pittsburgh paying handsomely but some of the other teams listed are less in need of a guy like Pleks.   On pittsburgh he becomes their go-to shut down guy and helps their PK.


The gamble is that, assuming he likes Pitts, what makes him want to leave in the summer? If they offer him the same $2m contract or something, why wouldnt he just stay there, especially if they do well this post-season.

 

I think we still do it.  I mean sure it would be nice to bring him back next year in a 3rd line capacity but the resigning of Plekanec is not our biggest problem by a long-shot.

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On Plekanec, Bob McKenzie is on record saying he doesn't know what the market value for rental players would be and I think his exact quote was that Plekanec could garner a 2nd rounder or it could be as low as a 4th. Interestingly, Plekanec leads our team in 5v5 points, so FWIW, even though he isn't scoring goals any more, he still has value as a shutdown center and secondary point producer. Hard to find a great comparable, but last year, Victor Stalberg was worth a 3rd rounder, Brian Boyle was worth a 2nd rounder and Byron Froese, Tomas Jurco was worth a 3rd rounder, and Patrick Eaves for a conditional 2nd, Two years ago, Teddy Purcell yielded a 3rd rounder and Jiri Hudler a 2nd and a 4th. So Plekanec is likely somewhere in the same range as a lot of those players. It's not impossible but pretty unlikely someone would give up a 1st rounder. But the Habs have the luxury of being able to retain half his salary and giving teams someone on the cheap, so I don't think a 2nd rounder is unreasonable. One thing is for certain is that the Habs can't afford to not trade him and come away empty-handed with an aging impending UFA. Even if Plekanec can still be an effective 3C, the Habs have Danault for that role and don't need Plekanec any more. Sure, we're short centers, but we're short two top 6 centers and Plekanec doesn't address that need.

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Bob McKenzie is reporting the asking price for Rick Nash is a 1st rounder, a top prospect, and another player or pick. So we now have asking prices set for

 

- Pacioretty: 1st, 2nd, top prospect, and roster player

- Nash: 1st, top prospect, and roster player/pick

- Kane: 1st, top prospect, roster player, conditional second pick if he re-signs

 

The asks are remarkably similar. So look at these three guys and ask yourself who you'd rather have... Nash, who is 33 and in the last year of a 7.8M cap hit deal; Kane, who is 26 and an impending UFA as well, on a 5,25M cap hit and with a history of off-ice issues; or Pacioretty, who is 29, one of the most prolific goal-scorers of the past 5 years, on a 4.5M cap hit with an extra year already signed at that amount, and who currently captain of the Habs. As another comparison, Mike Hoffman is 28 and has two years left after the current one at 5.19M, but the ask isn't as well known. Elliotte Friedman stated it includes a 1st round pick and more but that's all we know.

We know teams like Stl, Nas, Ana, SJ, LA, Cal, Clb, the NYI, and Dal have all been rumored to be buyers looking for top 6 wingers, so there's demand out there. No one wants to meet those asks right now, but either the sellers will hold firm and the buyers will give in or else a seller will cave in and the asks will be lowered. The good news for MB is that he doesn't have to make the first move in the game of chicken. Unlike Buf and the NYR, the Habs have MP locked up past this year, so they can afford to not lower their demands. I think we might see Buf and NYR lower their asks first, but even if they sell, there should theoretically be more buyers still out there, and if the only two big name scoring wingers left are Hoffman and Pacioretty, we might just get what we want.

 

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