2017-18 The Rumors Thread

[habs1952]

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

According to Georges Laraque, the Habs are a front-runner for Tavares and he placed the odds of JT coming here at 50%, which is reasonably high. He argues that GM and MB must know something we don't, with all their hints about needing a franchise player and there being an opportunity to get one. He also talks about the Bergevin-Brisson relationship as being an in for inside information that could give the Habs the belief they have a good shot.

 

 

Would that not amount to collusion?

[BigTed3]

55 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Would that not amount to collusion?

Technically, as long as Bergevin doesn't mention Tavares by name, it's allowed. In other words, Bergevin is allowed to tell his friend Brisson that he would love to find a #1 center. He's allowed to tell him he'd pay big bucks for a guy who can score 30+ goals a year. He just can't tell Brisson he wants Tavares. But he can describe him to a point that any fool would be able to tell who he's talking about. For his part, Brisson could also drop hints to Bergevin that he has a client who's not satisfied with his current organization and might be looking for a new club and that he has a client who'd love to play on the same team as Price and Pacioretty and Weber, and it'd be a real shame to try and trade them before July 1st. And Brisson could also talk to his client Pacioretty and tell him to stick it out in Montreal and maybe the Habs will find him a legit #1 center if he's patient. All legal.

[Regis22]

So IF Tavares signs with Montreal. He goes from one bad hockey club to a worse one

[Windoe]

Patches-Tavares-Gallagher

Drouin-Danault-Galchenyuk

Lehkonen-Hudon-Scherbak

Deslauriers-De La Rose-Byon  

(not including A Shaw, Carr, McCarron, L Shaw)

Mete-Weber

Alzner-Petry

Reilly-Juulsen

Price-Lindgren

 

My guess is, if healthy, this is a solid playoff team for a few years.  MB may be in a "get Tavares here" or you're fired position (I don't know that to be true).

[Windoe]

Some nice option for Tavares...you can either have Pacioretty or Drouin on your left, and you can either have Gallagher or Galchenyuk or your left.  

Normally I'd balk at having a player signed for full length and full dollar.

[BigTed3]

4 minutes ago, Windoe said:

Some nice option for Tavares...you can either have Pacioretty or Drouin on your left, and you can either have Gallagher or Galchenyuk or your left.  

Normally I'd balk at having a player signed for full length and full dollar.

I'd have no hesitation giving JT a full 7 years. Will he be a top-tier player for the full 7? Probably not. But I think he can be a #1 center for at least another 4 years, and we have zero #1 center prospects in the system now, nor will we be drafting one this year. The earliest we'll get a new #1 via the draft is 3-4 years from now, and MB seems incapable of finding one via trade or free agency otherwise. If he has an in with Tavares, you take it. For a player of that caliber, you deal with the end years of the contract being bad if you have to because it's just so rare to acquire players like that, especially without having to give up assets in a trade.

Signing JT also reinforces the possibility of trading 1-2 of our top 9 wingers for other assets. So if you can sign Tavares and trade Pacioretty or Weber or so on, then you grab "free" assets elsewhere. For example, let's say we deal Pacioretty for RNH and Nurse. Well now you've gone from having Pacman to having JT, RNH, and a top 4 D man, and you simply slot Drouin over on the left wing. And you allot the money you would have had to pay Pacioretty on his next deal to JT (or at least part of his contract).

[jeff33]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/NY-Isles-Will-Go-All-in-on-Pacioretty-if-Tavares-Moves-on--New-Picks-/1/91745

according to the inerrant ek,the isles will go all in for patch if they lose tavares. 

not sure who we get back thats really interesting from them....Id be ok with futures  though.

Either way I think patch fpr RNH is 100% the trade to make, even if we get tavares. chuck and drouin easily slot in as the top 2 LW

tavares-rnh-danault is awesome

tavares-danault -hudon is weak sauce realistically. he might as well stay in new york with barzal and lee and bailey.

look at nashville. they went to a cup, and a year after sign bonino and swing a huge trade to get turris. THATS being serious about winning. 

 

[PuckPundit]

9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

According to Georges Laraque, the Habs are a front-runner for Tavares and he placed the odds of JT coming here at 50%, which is reasonably high. He argues that GM and MB must know something we don't, with all their hints about needing a franchise player and there being an opportunity to get one. He also talks about the Bergevin-Brisson relationship as being an in for inside information that could give the Habs the belief they have a good shot.

I stopped reading at George Laraque . Seriously? The same clown who claimed to have 'insider info' that Geoff Molson has shut down Marc Bergevin and put him on a tight leash? What a joke!

I know in current dark times, fans clamour for any news of hope. But we have to assess the credibility of leakers and rumour mongers themselves.

[ChiLla]

Yeah, Georges Laraque talks about a lot of things once you put a microphone in his face.

Last summer he reported that management decided to trade Galchenyuk, Radulov agreed to a 3-year deal with the Habs and then there was the most recent thing about MB being on a short leash.

We'd all love for MB to sign Tavares but if he truly wants to win a Cup, I honestly don't see why he'd choose us.

[East_Coast_Juggalo_13]

4 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Yeah, Georges Laraque talks about a lot of things once you put a microphone in his face.

Last summer he reported that management decided to trade Galchenyuk, Radulov agreed to a 3-year deal with the Habs and then there was the most recent thing about MB being on a short leash.

We'd all love for MB to sign Tavares but if he truly wants to win a Cup, I honestly don't see why he'd choose us.

Georges is clearly punch drunk from his tough guy days.  He's also the same guy who backed Therrien as a good coach

[Regis22]

7 hours ago, ChiLla said:

We'd all love for MB to sign Tavares but if he truly wants to win a Cup, I honestly don't see why he'd choose us.

Agree. Team would sill be bad with him in the lineup just not as bad as they are now .

Look at the Islanders with him , they are still bad and Montreal has ALOT more holes

[maas_art]

14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Technically, as long as Bergevin doesn't mention Tavares by name, it's allowed. In other words, Bergevin is allowed to tell his friend Brisson that he would love to find a #1 center. He's allowed to tell him he'd pay big bucks for a guy who can score 30+ goals a year. He just can't tell Brisson he wants Tavares. But he can describe him to a point that any fool would be able to tell who he's talking about. For his part, Brisson could also drop hints to Bergevin that he has a client who's not satisfied with his current organization and might be looking for a new club and that he has a client who'd love to play on the same team as Price and Pacioretty and Weber, and it'd be a real shame to try and trade them before July 1st. And Brisson could also talk to his client Pacioretty and tell him to stick it out in Montreal and maybe the Habs will find him a legit #1 center if he's patient. All legal.

Totally. And lets be honest, behind closed doors, having a few beers I have no doubt they've mentioned him by name.  They're human.  As long as they keep everything legit / vague in public I dont think there would be any problems. 

 

14 hours ago, Regis22 said:

So IF Tavares signs with Montreal. He goes from one bad hockey club to a worse one

 

9 hours ago, ChiLla said:

We'd all love for MB to sign Tavares but if he truly wants to win a Cup, I honestly don't see why he'd choose us.

Here's the thing though: This is a bad hockey club because we're missing a guy like Tavares (and a top LHD).    Add him onto this roster & we're already a way better. Use one of Pacioretty or Galchenyuk etc to get you a top pairing LHD (or win the draft lottery) and you end up with a much improved team. Maybe we go one step further & add in a true #2 centre (assuming Poehling isnt ready) etc etc.  This team is bad right now but would be a whole lot better overnight with the addition of JT.  

This isnt like trying to attract a scoring winger or top 4 dman who wants to join an already great team.  This is trying to get that franchise forward & being able to say "we've already got the supporting cast!" 

And in the same vein, there are very very few top, contending teams who can take on Tavares' contract and not have to dump some key players to do so.  

 

 

 

[Regis22]

Someone has a lot of work to do convincing JT that Montreal already has a supporting cast . IMO he has a better cast IN NY and bad D . Here everything is bad, except the nice arena and history of the team

[ChiLla]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Here's the thing though: This is a bad hockey club because we're missing a guy like Tavares (and a top LHD).    Add him onto this roster & we're already a way better. Use one of Pacioretty or Galchenyuk etc to get you a top pairing LHD (or win the draft lottery) and you end up with a much improved team. Maybe we go one step further & add in a true #2 centre (assuming Poehling isnt ready) etc etc.  This team is bad right now but would be a whole lot better overnight with the addition of JT.  

This isnt like trying to attract a scoring winger or top 4 dman who wants to join an already great team.  This is trying to get that franchise forward & being able to say "we've already got the supporting cast!" 

And in the same vein, there are very very few top, contending teams who can take on Tavares' contract and not have to dump some key players to do so. 

You're right, we'd be a much better team with Tavares but wouldn't that apply to pretty much every team in the NHL that can afford him?

I'd love to see him in Montreal, there's no doubt about it, but I think he'll either stay in NY or sign elsewhere, the best UFAs always do.

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

You're right, we'd be a much better team with Tavares but wouldn't that apply to pretty much every team in the NHL that can afford him?

I'd love to see him in Montreal, there's no doubt about it, but I think he'll either stay in NY or sign elsewhere, the best UFAs always do.

Sure. I mean id argue that he's one of the top 6-8 centres in the league so if you put him on any roster & he's not supplanting a better player then they are obviously better.  Pittsburgh is maybe the only team in the league he wouldnt make better.

But, id argue there are almost no other teams that could use him as much as us and, on the flip side, that will take such a big stride forward with his addition.   You dont just add John Tavares, you also shift Drouin back to his natural LW.   And even though CJ and MB have said over and over that Galchenyuk is not a centre, I have a sneaking suspicion if they had JT at #1 and PD at #3 they'd be ok with AG at #2 centre.  I just get the sense that Julien is going to try him there soon.  He said the other day that AG had made great strides in his two-way game.  That  leads to suddenly strong depth down the middle and still having great depth on wing.  We could then flip Pacioretty for defensive help, which i think would be easier than trying to get a centre for him. 

So, in terms of your point: yes, i think any team would be happy to have him, but i dont think many teams would take such a drastic leap forward with him added to their roster.  I think he'll get max money and term from a LOT of teams. I think the biggest question is going to be: "Do you want to be the Franchise, John?"  If the answer to that is yes, he wont find a better place than Montreal.  He would be adored and if our GM could make the secondary moves to fill the other roster holes, I think it would appear as if JT single handedly took us from worst to cup contender himself.  

With regards to your second point about UFAs not signing here, i think you'd find almost every team's fanbase saying that.  I mean there are 31 teams so a player either signs with you, or someone else.  We only remember the ones who didnt sign with us but its not like there are 3 or 4 teams who get all the good players.  Sure, marquee players rarely sign with us, but Marquee player rarely sign anywhere.   Heck, Karl Alzner was the #2 most sought after dman last off season. lol.  

 

[BigTed3]

1. Sure, it's Laraque. But my post was not only about BGL's comments, it was mainly just explaining why that viewpoint could be rational, regardless of who put it out there.

2. Barzal is better than any player on our team, but outside of that, I think the Habs have a better roster than the Isles. Our prospect pool is not as good, but if we're talking about what JT could use to build a Cup contender around, I think we have more win-now players than they do. The Isles have just about the worst goaltending in the league, and they don't have a Weber. Leddy is probably a wash compared to Petry. For me, our adding JT would be akin to their adding Carey for nothing. Each move addresses the other team's biggest weakness. We're not really that far behind the Isles in the standings, so if we add another player who instantly becomes our best position player, I think that would easily put our new roster ahead of the current Isles roster. And conversely, if the Isles added Price or Holtby or so on without giving up anyone, they'd be way better than us too.

3. No, we're still not a top 5 team in the league with JT, but we're a lot closer... and as I said, it's easy to say that TB and Tor and Pit and Bos and so on give him a better chance at a Cup than us. But, is he really going to go somewhere where he's competing with Matthews or Crosby/Malkin or Stamkos or Bergeron for ice time? Is he getting a full complement of PP time in those cities? Is he getting the best linemates? Not sure he is. And not everywhere is going to have the cap room or the owner's pockets or the will to pay him 10-15M a season. On paper, he's a great fit here, both for him and the team.

[Regis22]

22 hours ago, Windoe said:

Patches-Tavares-Gallagher

Drouin-Danault-Galchenyuk

Lehkonen-Hudon-Scherbak

Deslauriers-De La Rose-Byon  

(not including A Shaw, Carr, McCarron, L Shaw)

Mete-Weber

Alzner-Petry

Reilly-Juulsen

Price-Lindgren

 

My guess is, if healthy, this is a solid playoff team for a few years.  MB may be in a "get Tavares here" or you're fired position (I don't know that to be true).

You added TavaresReilly-Juulsen . And everyone else is the same. IMO the D is still not very good , And the team goes from really bad to struggling to make the palyoffs .  

[Habs=stanleycup]

The point is to win the Cup and to add Tavares will not do it IMO. We need much more depth because once Tavares gets injured we are back in the same bad situation, with a lousy team who can`t score consistently and lacks a proper defensive corp.

That`s why the answer is a total rebuild IMO, but alas our incompetent GM remains, with all the blessings of our delusional Owner.

[jennifer_rocket]

2 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

The point is to win the Cup and to add Tavares will not do it IMO. We need much more depth because once Tavares gets injured we are back in the same bad situation, with a lousy team who can`t score consistently and lacks a proper defensive corp.

That`s why the answer is a total rebuild IMO, but alas our incompetent GM remains, with all the blessings of our delusional Owner.

Correct. And Tavares would be dumb to sign here anyway. I honestly feel like we have zero shot at Tavares or any other free agent top-six forward/top-four defender. Next year is likely to be a close version of this season that will hopefully result in Bergevin's firing.

[ChiLla]

14 hours ago, maas_art said:

Sure. I mean id argue that he's one of the top 6-8 centres in the league so if you put him on any roster & he's not supplanting a better player then they are obviously better.  Pittsburgh is maybe the only team in the league he wouldnt make better.

But, id argue there are almost no other teams that could use him as much as us and, on the flip side, that will take such a big stride forward with his addition.   You dont just add John Tavares, you also shift Drouin back to his natural LW.   And even though CJ and MB have said over and over that Galchenyuk is not a centre, I have a sneaking suspicion if they had JT at #1 and PD at #3 they'd be ok with AG at #2 centre.  I just get the sense that Julien is going to try him there soon.  He said the other day that AG had made great strides in his two-way game.  That  leads to suddenly strong depth down the middle and still having great depth on wing.  We could then flip Pacioretty for defensive help, which i think would be easier than trying to get a centre for him. 

So, in terms of your point: yes, i think any team would be happy to have him, but i dont think many teams would take such a drastic leap forward with him added to their roster.  I think he'll get max money and term from a LOT of teams. I think the biggest question is going to be: "Do you want to be the Franchise, John?"  If the answer to that is yes, he wont find a better place than Montreal.  He would be adored and if our GM could make the secondary moves to fill the other roster holes, I think it would appear as if JT single handedly took us from worst to cup contender himself.  

With regards to your second point about UFAs not signing here, i think you'd find almost every team's fanbase saying that.  I mean there are 31 teams so a player either signs with you, or someone else.  We only remember the ones who didnt sign with us but its not like there are 3 or 4 teams who get all the good players.  Sure, marquee players rarely sign with us, but Marquee player rarely sign anywhere.   Heck, Karl Alzner was the #2 most sought after dman last off season. lol. 

He's exactly what we're missing, which may not necessarily be the case for a lot of other teams, plus we're in a position to offer him max term and money if need be, which we probably should given our non-existant center depth. Again, I'd absolutely love for JT to sign here but I don't have any real hope considering what a train wreck this team currently is. And frankly, I think our supporting cast is really not that good. He'd be going from a team with terrible goaltending, brutal defence, and a very good offense to a team with (potentially) very good goaltending, a slightly better defence, and teribble offence (even though he would be a huge upgrade in that regard).

As others have said, even if we managed to sign JT, chances are we're still a bubble team. We need at least two key pieces, Tavares plus a legit Top4 LHD who complements Weber. And to get that player, we'd probably have to trade Pacioretty or Galchenyuk, creating a new hole in the lineup. Sure, Dahlin would be great, but a lot would have to go right for us to start the season with both Tavares and Dahlin on the roster.

I'm looking forward to see what MB's plan is. He cannot afford to stand pat and hope we'll simply turn this around with a healthy Price and Weber. We all know that won't work.

[habs1952]

5 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Correct. And Tavares would be dumb to sign here anyway. I honestly feel like we have zero shot at Tavares or any other free agent top-six forward/top-four defender. Next year is likely to be a close version of this season that will hopefully result in Bergevin's firing.

We'll have a much better shot at the #1 draft pick next year.

[jennifer_rocket]

1 minute ago, habs1952 said:

We'll have a much better shot at the #1 draft pick next year.

Which is maybe what this team needs. I don't mind being bad next season if that's the plan. Just giving young guys a ton of development time. Dealing away Pacioretty this summer. Maybe trying to unload Weber as well.

[Shutoutfan]

I heard that JT isnt a guy who likes the spotlight very much so that could very well mean that MTL is out of question.

[maas_art]

6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

 Next year is likely to be a close version of this season that will hopefully result in Bergevin's firing.

Isnt it sad that we may well have the worst season in modern Habs history (we're closing in on the most loses since the 50s i think) and yet we have to survive another season like this to get rid of Bergevin?    When we last won the cup Savard had what, one small miscue a year later & was turfed!!

 

4 hours ago, ChiLla said:

As others have said, even if we managed to sign JT, chances are we're still a bubble team. We need at least two key pieces, Tavares plus a legit Top4 LHD who complements Weber. And to get that player, we'd probably have to trade Pacioretty or Galchenyuk, creating a new hole in the lineup.

Wholeheartedly agree that we would need to add more.  Tavares makes us way better but we are still barely a playoff team.  The defense is still a mess.  But I disagree about making another hole by trading Pacioretty or Galchenyuk (the former being my preference of course).   Pacioretty/Drouin/Galchenyuk/Lehkonen/Hudon - these are all top 6 LW. We can afford to lose one or even 2.    What Bergevin needs to figure out is how to trade players who play one position and gain them from another. Not a RHD for another RHD or a LW for a LW.  We need to turn our strong areas into players in our weak areas.
 

 

13 minutes ago, Shutoutfan said:

I heard that JT isnt a guy who likes the spotlight very much so that could very well mean that MTL is out of question.

Yeah, that would definitely make it tough to sign him then.  

[habsisme]

I still think we need to rebuild BUT imo we are legitimate contenders for 2-3 years if 3 things happen

1- sign Tavares

2- Add a top 4 (but really a #2) LHD that can move the puck...OR get 1st overall pick and draft him

3- Add a #2 center.... this part would be easiest if we the other 2 happened for us. I would love RNH as a #2. I'm willing to trade any of our winger except Gallagher... plus what we have to do to sweeten the pot

....so basically sign Tavares and win the lottery. What are our current chances of winning lottery? I imagine its like 15%... signing Tavares? I keep hearing a lot of things that don't make sense for a guy who hates the spotlight. Although, I really hope he at least leaves the Islanders. So lets assume he does leave (because he should even if he doesnt) what team works for him? I just don't know. In a hockey sense any #1 C should want to come here, any #2 too. But taxes and (to some players) crazy fans and media, and french culture shock etc blah blah.... I'd play for the habs but if im an older player with a family, Montreal would be one of the last places id wanna play in.

But boy oh boy i just enjoyed dreaming about these things happening... you never know