2017-18 The Rumors Thread

[habs1952]

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

This.  

Like you, I dont have a problem with retaining Pacioretty assuming its under the right conditions.   If we keep patches one of Drouin or Galchenyuk would have to go.   Ideally Id like to keep one of them but if it means flipping one for a top pairing LD (and that patches couldnt do that himself) then Id certainly consider it.

I have been very critical of MB over the last year but so far he's done well this off season and I cant criticize him for gathering information. 

I must have missed something. We have exactly the same team as this past season. How can you say MB has done well this off season? The only changes I'm aware of were in the coaching ranks and those changes are unproven.

[Regis22]

6 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

I have been very critical of MB over the last year but so far he's done well this off season and I cant criticize him for gathering information. 

I ll be impressed when he starts to put a team together . Getting rid of coaches and assistant coaches who should never have been hired were no brainers. The moment he resigns TP Ill know this team is doomed again

[maas_art]

5 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

I must have missed something. We have exactly the same team as this past season. How can you say MB has done well this off season? The only changes I'm aware of were in the coaching ranks and those changes are unproven.

While trades are allowable between non playoff teams they almost never happen.  At this point all he really *could* do was make personnel changes. And in that regard, he's done well.

I know everyone hates MB but put aside the vitriol for a moment and look at the moves he has made.  Sure he himself is still there but he snagged two of the best candidates available for Laval and as assistants to CJ.   

 

 

7 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

I ll be impressed when he starts to put a team together . Getting rid of coaches and assistant coaches who should never have been hired were no brainers. The moment he resigns TP Ill know this team is doomed again

No disagreements there.  At this point all he's done is off the ice but the initial point stands: just because we think he's done a poor job up till this summer doesnt mean that every move he makes (for example talking - just talking - with Pacioretty about an extension) are terrible.    

[jennifer_rocket]

Are we giving Bergevin credit for doing things we almost unanimously agreed upon? Firing some coaches and hiring obvious replacement candidates? Let's see what he manages to do with Pacioretty, the draft, and free agency.

[habs1952]

14 hours ago, maas_art said:

While trades are allowable between non playoff teams they almost never happen.  At this point all he really *could* do was make personnel changes. And in that regard, he's done well.

I know everyone hates MB but put aside the vitriol for a moment and look at the moves he has made.  Sure he himself is still there but he snagged two of the best candidates available for Laval and as assistants to CJ.   

 

 

 

Were they the best candidates available or were they the best Quebecois candidates available?

[maas_art]

4 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Were they the best candidates available or were they the best Quebecois candidates available?

From what i understand, they were both.   Ducharme especially was apparently highly coveted around the league.  
 

Dont get me wrong, I am no MB-fan. I think we are setting this franchise up for failure the longer we keep him, but I also think we have to be fair in his criticisms, otherwise we sound like leaf fans. 

[East_Coast_Juggalo_13]

12 minutes ago, maas_art said:

From what i understand, they were both.   Ducharme especially was apparently highly coveted around the league.  
 

Dont get me wrong, I am no MB-fan. I think we are setting this franchise up for failure the longer we keep him, but I also think we have to be fair in his criticisms, otherwise we sound like leaf fans. 

We ARE Leafs fans.  Or at least what Leafs fans were 3 seasons ago.  Selling off our future for mediocre in hopes for a cup now.  Realistically we are in dire need of a rebuild.

[Habs=stanleycup]

29 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

We ARE Leafs fans.  Or at least what Leafs fans were 3 seasons ago.  Selling off our future for mediocre in hopes for a cup now.  Realistically we are in dire need of a rebuild.

Agreed, and MB has GOT to go! Preferably along with his side kick Molson.

[H_T_L]

I wouldn't have a problem with Molson as an owner if he hired someone qualified to run the business. People in management should be answering to someone who knows the hockey side of the franchise and not him.

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

I wouldn't have a problem with Molson as an owner if he hired someone qualified to run the business. People in management should be answering to someone who knows the hockey side of the franchise and not him.

This.  This is the number one biggest issue by far.    MB answers to one person:   Geoff  "Aw shucks, i dont know a lot about hockey" Molson.  This is a big problem.  

[FireHabs]

Molson is not going anywhere

[BigTed3]

Dreger says the Sabres are still shopping ROR and that the ask is something in the ballpark of a top draft choice, a young player or prospect, and maybe another piece.

McKenzie says the Kings are looking at options for a big move and that the three targets are Kessel, Skinner, and Pacioretty.

Would be great if MB can make his deal with Pacioretty before the draft. If he can get a Gabe Vilardi, for example, maybe he has less inclination to swing for the fences for a center at the draft and just takes Zadina, which gives you a potential Zadina-Vilardi 1st line combo for years.

[maas_art]

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

McKenzie says the Kings are looking at options for a big move and that the three targets are Kessel, Skinner, and Pacioretty.

Would be great if MB can make his deal with Pacioretty before the draft. If he can get a Gabe Vilardi, for example, maybe he has less inclination to swing for the fences for a center at the draft and just takes Zadina, which gives you a potential Zadina-Vilardi 1st line combo for years.

Do you think the kings would really consider moving Vilardi though?  They dont have a ton of talent up the middle in the pipeline...

[maas_art]

16 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Dreger says the Sabres are still shopping ROR and that the ask is something in the ballpark of a top draft choice, a young player or prospect, and maybe another piece.

The more I think about ROR the more id have some interest.  I mean I still think we should get rid of all the vets but you know as well as I that aint happening. So, assuming MB will try to win now,  a guy like ROR would absolutely thrive under CJ's system.   You could give all the heavy lifting to his line and make an explosive scoring line on line 2.  Im still hoping for Tavares (no losing assets to sign him either) but if that doesnt happen, ROR may well be worth looking at.

Pacioretty - ROR - Gallagher
Drouin - Galchenyuk - Zadina

This still leaves us with the problem of left D though. Ive read a few articles lately suggesting the advanced stats show Mete is ready (and its tough to say how he would have done next to a healthy Shea Weber all year) but i think we're better off with VM  on the 2nd pair with Petry.  

[maas_art]

Subban's name back in the rumour mills.  He's on TSN's top trade bait list too.  

Interestingly I read an article (the sportster) where they list 15 trades that Nashville might accept for PK (I dont agree with many of them) but the #1 trade listed is Pacioretty (signed to an extension) for PK.   I would JUMP at this deal but i have no idea why Nashville would do it. Its a fun article to read even though Im sure it has little to no merit.  

https://www.thesportster.com/hockey/nhl-realistic-trade-packages-nashville-would-accept-for-p-k-subban/

 

 

[jennifer_rocket]

56 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The more I think about ROR the more id have some interest.  I mean I still think we should get rid of all the vets but you know as well as I that aint happening. So, assuming MB will try to win now,  a guy like ROR would absolutely thrive under CJ's system.   You could give all the heavy lifting to his line and make an explosive scoring line on line 2.  Im still hoping for Tavares (no losing assets to sign him either) but if that doesnt happen, ROR may well be worth looking at.

Pacioretty - ROR - Gallagher
Drouin - Galchenyuk - Zadina

This still leaves us with the problem of left D though. Ive read a few articles lately suggesting the advanced stats show Mete is ready (and its tough to say how he would have done next to a healthy Shea Weber all year) but i think we're better off with VM  on the 2nd pair with Petry.  

There are just so many question marks around what MB will do. Ryan O'Rielly is very interesting, although I think his cap hit is a little high. I would be quite disappointed if we sacrificed 3 pieces for him. Especially if those pieces were futures.

I assume MB is still moving forward with a win now mindset. I don't expect him to trade Price or Weber. I have no idea what he will do with the 3rd overall pick. It wouldn't surprise me if his intention with that pick has nothing to do with a win now attitude and he just takes a center because he feels like we need more centers in the pipeline. Tinkering in free agency and trading Pacioretty will probably be enough for him to claim we've gotten better and have a chance to compete again.

[Manatee-X]

16 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Subban's name back in the rumour mills.  He's on TSN's top trade bait list too.  

Interestingly I read an article (the sportster) where they list 15 trades that Nashville might accept for PK (I dont agree with many of them) but the #1 trade listed is Pacioretty (signed to an extension) for PK.   I would JUMP at this deal but i have no idea why Nashville would do it. Its a fun article to read even though Im sure it has little to no merit.  

https://www.thesportster.com/hockey/nhl-realistic-trade-packages-nashville-would-accept-for-p-k-subban/

 

 

Is there a better headline for a hockey journalist than "PK Subban on the Trade Block"?  I can't see any logical reason why they would want to trade Subban, and nobody gives any sources (TSN's article lists such valued insiders as "the hot rumour" and "lots of chatter" ).  To me this indicates that it's probably just being spread around for clicks, with each site counting all of the others as a source of the "rumour".  I can't imagine that any of this means that a deal is even remotely likely.

 

 

....which was my exact attitude just before the first Subban trade.  So what do I know!

 

[maas_art]

18 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

Is there a better headline for a hockey journalist than "PK Subban on the Trade Block"?  I can't see any logical reason why they would want to trade Subban, and nobody gives any sources (TSN's article lists such valued insiders as "the hot rumour" and "lots of chatter" ).  To me this indicates that it's probably just being spread around for clicks, with each site counting all of the others as a source of the "rumour".  I can't imagine that any of this means that a deal is even remotely likely.

 

 

....which was my exact attitude just before the first Subban trade.  So what do I know!

 

Totally. I mean watching the Preds - and they have a great defense - he was still the best blueliner they had.  So why trade him? But we did, and our blueline sucked. 

I dunno. I suspect its all hot air but its definitely weird to see his name over and over.   A guy like ROR you get (because of his comments) a guy like RNH you get (because of their centre depth and the fact he hasnt panned out as much as he has).  You also get guys like Giroux or Karlsson or Patches or Toews because they have expiring or bad contracts. 

But PK?   Seems soooo weird. 

[H_T_L]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Subban's name back in the rumour mills.  He's on TSN's top trade bait list too.  

Interestingly I read an article (the sportster) where they list 15 trades that Nashville might accept for PK (I dont agree with many of them) but the #1 trade listed is Pacioretty (signed to an extension) for PK.   I would JUMP at this deal but i have no idea why Nashville would do it. Its a fun article to read even though Im sure it has little to no merit.  

https://www.thesportster.com/hockey/nhl-realistic-trade-packages-nashville-would-accept-for-p-k-subban/

 

 

We're talking about dealing with Poile here, and not fleecing a guy like MB. No way a smart GM does that deal straight up.

[jeff33]

1 hour ago, Manatee-X said:

Is there a better headline for a hockey journalist than "PK Subban on the Trade Block"?  I can't see any logical reason why they would want to trade Subban, and nobody gives any sources (TSN's article lists such valued insiders as "the hot rumour" and "lots of chatter" ).  To me this indicates that it's probably just being spread around for clicks, with each site counting all of the others as a source of the "rumour".  I can't imagine that any of this means that a deal is even remotely likely.

 

 

....which was my exact attitude just before the first Subban trade.  So what do I know!

 

bang on, I heard this 3 times and each one cited absolutely nothing as a source. its click bait. and its gratuitous. 

the difference between now and with us is that it was very clear he was disliked by  therrien, because anything he tried that didnt work , he got sat. it was completely egregious.

bergevin you knew too based off how badly he didnt want to pay the guy. he forced a holdout, a bridge deal, and then molson had to intervene to get his long term deal done. 

over there they play him the most minutes and praise him publicly at every opportunity. its actually pretty disgusting what this guy has to go through. ive never seen a player marginalized so much for doing so little.  

[maas_art]

55 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

We're talking about dealing with Poile here, and not fleecing a guy like MB. No way a smart GM does that deal straight up.

Poile has made plenty of bad trades.  He's the only GM Nashville has ever had and they were awful for most of their years.   He's certainly operating at a high level right now but even he said he took a weekend to decide whether PK for SW was fair.  

Although i do agree with you, most of those deals look pretty far fetched.   I also dont see MB swallowing his massive pride and re-acquiring PK. 

[BigTed3]

3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

We're talking about dealing with Poile here, and not fleecing a guy like MB. No way a smart GM does that deal straight up.

 

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Poile has made plenty of bad trades.  He's the only GM Nashville has ever had and they were awful for most of their years.   He's certainly operating at a high level right now but even he said he took a weekend to decide whether PK for SW was fair.  

Although i do agree with you, most of those deals look pretty far fetched.   I also dont see MB swallowing his massive pride and re-acquiring PK. 

I'm not sure what we could give Nashville to re-acquire Subban. Nashville loves its D, the only reason Subban's name has even come up is because Josi and Ellis are going to be due big raises soon, and the issue becomes whether they can pay everyone. So for us to deal them someone who's going to make just as much money doesn't solve their problem (i.e. dealing them Pacioretty on an extension or re-trading Weber plus something else just doesn't help them). They're also going to need someone to replace Subban on the blue line. So who do we have that can be a star, plays D, and is young enough to not require being paid in the near future? No one. I just don't see us as a fit here.

There have been additional rumors that Nashville and Ottawa might consider a flip of Karlsson for Subban. That would work well for Ottawa, because they'd get a guy signed for a few more years rather than lose Karlsson after next season. But it doesn't solve Nashville's cap issues. I would be surprised if Nashville deals Subban, but if they do, I wonder if they do with Subban what they did with Weber: trade him for a younger stud D man. I could see them going after a Werenski or Provorov or someone of that ilk, in addition to grabbing a 1st rounder or another asset.

As for Poile, he's definitely made his share of mistakes. But selling high on Weber before his decline was smart. Forsberg was genius. I actually like Seth Jones better than Ryan Johanson, but in the big picture of things, he got himself a 1C dealing from a position where he had an excess of talent. so the big moves in the past couple of years have been golden. It's not that Bergevin can't do the same and turn the Habs around, but he hasn't shown any change in philosophy (he ended last year talking about attitude issues and his interviews for the draft this year have focused on character) and he's reacted angrily to people challenging his decisions in the past. So there's nothing yet to show he gets it. If he dumps Schlemko and Alzner and Benn and trades some or all of Pacioretty, Weber, and Price for younger assets and gets Galchenyuk a real try at center and finds a 1C and a 1 LHD, then yes, it means he understood. But I'm not holding my breathe.

[BigTed3]

A tweet from Bob Stauffer, who is an Edmonton media member but is also on the Oilers payroll as their color commentator guy, regarding what they might do. A lot of people put stock in what he says and apparently he's well tied-in to the Oilers and correctly predicted Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle being traded. This time, he's tweeted that he thinks it is very unlikely the Oilers will move the #10 pick for a veteran, in part because the Oilers just can't fit a veteran under the cap. He also adds that he wouldn't be surprised if a veteran with term gets moved out to bring in another player who adds a different ingredient to the line-up. A lot people seem to think this is a reference to Klefbom.

We also know that Chiarelli has stated he'd like to find a quarterback for his PP, so there is some belief that the Oilers might want to move Klefbom for a guy who can fill that role better. Again, from our end, disappointing if the Oilers don't want to move #10 and not really a fit for us if they want a PP quarterback who doesn't break their cap. The only guy we have who fits that description is Petry, and he's already been traded once by Edmonton. Not sure it helps us to deal Petry for Klefbom either. One hole filled and another one on the other side of the D created.

[habs1952]

7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Subban's name back in the rumour mills.  He's on TSN's top trade bait list too.  

Interestingly I read an article (the sportster) where they list 15 trades that Nashville might accept for PK (I dont agree with many of them) but the #1 trade listed is Pacioretty (signed to an extension) for PK.   I would JUMP at this deal but i have no idea why Nashville would do it. Its a fun article to read even though Im sure it has little to no merit.  

https://www.thesportster.com/hockey/nhl-realistic-trade-packages-nashville-would-accept-for-p-k-subban/

 

 

There is absolutely no way Bergevin would man up and take PK back. At least not before PK took that new fangled charater test the Habs dreamed up.

[Regis22]

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-max-pacioretty-and-alex-galchnyuk-both-on-tsns-trade-bait-board?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1528392099

 

Canadiens' Max Pacioretty and Alex Galchnyuk both on TSN's Trade Bait board

 

CommentPrint

TSN senior hockey reporter Frank Seravalli has come out with TSN Hockey’s first Trade Bait board of the summer and two Canadiens are on the 25-player list.

Canadiens captain Max Pacioretty, a left-winger, comes in at No. 5, while Alex Galchenyuk — also a left-winger, but possibly a centre on a new team — is at No. 20.

Former Canadiens defenceman P.K. Subban, now with the Nashville Predators, also interestingly makes the list at No. 10.

Listed ahead of Pacioretty on Seravalli’s list are Ottawa Senators defenceman Erik Karlsson at No. 1, followed by Buffalo Sabres centre Ryan O’Reilly, Senators left-winger Mike Hoffman and Carolina Hurricanes left-winger Jeff Skinner.

Writes Seravalli: “It’s no surprise that Montreal Canadiens left wingers Max Pacioretty (5) and Alex Galchenyuk (20) are on the board. The Habs should know better than anyone it’s impossible to turn a winger into a centre, but GM Marc Bergevin might be able to flip one of them for the top-four, left-shooting defenceman they also desperately need.”