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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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Has there been interest in Washington's Philipp Grubauer? I thought I read something about a team being interested in him. I can't find a source. It might have been the Islanders. If so, I wonder if it's any indication that teams won't be interested in Price because of the enormous salary. Grubauer is a RFA.

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Has there been interest in Washington's Philipp Grubauer? I thought I read something about a team being interested in him. I can't find a source. It might have been the Islanders. If so, I wonder if it's any indication that teams won't be interested in Price because of the enormous salary. Grubauer is a RFA.

im not sure that interest (or not) in Grubauer has any bearing on Price.  Price is in some ways in a class of his own at least in terms of the mystique surrounding him.   There are 30 other teams in the NHL and while I am sure at least 1/2 of them wouldn't even attempt to field an offer for him, of the remaining 12 - 15 you would probably find some GMs who would pay handsomely for Carey.  

Maybe only 3 - 4 teams would want and be able to actually afford Price but thats more than enough to start a bidding war and get lots of value for him.   Goal is the one position that top players have consistently played well at well into their 30s and even late 30s.  I could even see a rebuilding team going after him - they'd have the cap and they could "build a team around" him like we apparently tried to do. 

We are at a crossroads though.  First off I think you have to listen to Waite. if he feels like Carey is on the downslope you move him asap. If he says he'll rebound then you probably are pretty safe but it still makes sense to move him to fill our other holes. 


I am 95% sure MB wont trade him but thats down from 99.9% sure during the season.  His end of season presser made me think there's a rift between Carey & management so you never know.  Its still probably highly unlikely but i dont think its because Carey lacks value. I think it would be because MB is too stubborn to move him. 

my 2¢

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

im not sure that interest (or not) in Grubauer has any bearing on Price.  Price is in some ways in a class of his own at least in terms of the mystique surrounding him.   There are 30 other teams in the NHL and while I am sure at least 1/2 of them wouldn't even attempt to field an offer for him, of the remaining 12 - 15 you would probably find some GMs who would pay handsomely for Carey.  

Maybe only 3 - 4 teams would want and be able to actually afford Price but thats more than enough to start a bidding war and get lots of value for him.   Goal is the one position that top players have consistently played well at well into their 30s and even late 30s.  I could even see a rebuilding team going after him - they'd have the cap and they could "build a team around" him like we apparently tried to do. 

We are at a crossroads though.  First off I think you have to listen to Waite. if he feels like Carey is on the downslope you move him asap. If he says he'll rebound then you probably are pretty safe but it still makes sense to move him to fill our other holes. 


I am 95% sure MB wont trade him but thats down from 99.9% sure during the season.  His end of season presser made me think there's a rift between Carey & management so you never know.  Its still probably highly unlikely but i dont think its because Carey lacks value. I think it would be because MB is too stubborn to move him. 

my 2¢

Let's say you were to move him though.  I'd be looking the way of Vancouver who has 22-mil in cap space to play with and who are also rumoured to have their 7th ova on the block as a carrot to dangle.  Maybe you can package Weber and Price to Vancouver  like so:

To VAN: Carey Price, Shea Weber

To MTL: Ben Hutton, Chris Tanev, JAkub Markstrom, 7th OVA

If not Price and Weber, I would offer Patches to VAN for the following deal:

To VAN: Max Pacioretty

To MTL: Olli Juolevi, Adam Gaudette, Nikolay Goldobin, 7th OVA

This way you can draft Zadina at 3 and Kotkaniemi at 7.

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36 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Let's say you were to move him though.  I'd be looking the way of Vancouver who has 22-mil in cap space to play with and who are also rumoured to have their 7th ova on the block as a carrot to dangle.  Maybe you can package Weber and Price to Vancouver  like so:

To VAN: Carey Price, Shea Weber

To MTL: Ben Hutton, Chris Tanev, JAkub Markstrom, 7th OVA

If not Price and Weber, I would offer Patches to VAN for the following deal:

To VAN: Max Pacioretty

To MTL: Olli Juolevi, Adam Gaudette, Nikolay Goldobin, 7th OVA

This way you can draft Zadina at 3 and Kotkaniemi at 7.

While i think there are a number of suitors for both Price and Weber, I just cant see us being able to deal both to the same team - plus i think you can get better value by trading them separately.    I dont think Vancouver would have any interest in Weber or Pacioretty.   Price, yes - i think teams will look at him as a "build your team around him" type of player but Weber and Patches are both going to bring value from a team that sees their window as now

4 minutes ago, Shutoutfan said:

I doubt Vancouver is in any position to deal for win-now players. Their team is crap even more after the Sedins retired.

Agree.  

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Per a podcast on sportsnet, 

Eliott Friedman says he has heard internally Habs management has been told to rebuild and stock up on picks and prospects, if they improve and don’t make the playoffs next year, ownership won’t freak.

Im not sure if this is true - although Friedman rarely speaks without a basis in fact - but I suppose time will tell.  If we start trading guys like Weber then I think its safe to say this is legit.  

 

If it is true, im curious what they do with Price.   You could try to move him for assets but on the flip side, he's good enough (when 'on') to make even a rebuilding team look good. His salary wouldnt be an issue if you had lots of ELC's on your roster either. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Per a podcast on sportsnet, 

 

 

Im not sure if this is true - although Friedman rarely speaks without a basis in fact - but I suppose time will tell.  If we start trading guys like Weber then I think its safe to say this is legit.  

 

If it is true, im curious what they do with Price.   You could try to move him for assets but on the flip side, he's good enough (when 'on') to make even a rebuilding team look good. His salary wouldnt be an issue if you had lots of ELC's on your roster either. 

We need a fresh start and a total rebuild. Getting rid of the likes of Price, Pacioretty & Weber would be a good start IMO.

Said rebuild should be in Timmin's hands not MB's though.

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1 minute ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Said rebuild should be in Timmin's hands not MB's though.

Totally agree.  My concern is that he's said to management "well look, i inherited this team, if i build one from the ground up, i do things differently" but the problem is we've got too many Weber for Subban, Drouin for Sergachev, Eller for Picks, Picks for shaw deals on the books for me to have any confidence in his abilities regardless of what stage he is at.

Sure if all his deals were Danault for vets then Im on board but his whole tenure has been like a movie without a plot line.  "We need speed - not, we need size - no, we need grit - no, we need character - no, we need attitude" 

 

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28 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Totally agree.  My concern is that he's said to management "well look, i inherited this team, if i build one from the ground up, i do things differently" but the problem is we've got too many Weber for Subban, Drouin for Sergachev, Eller for Picks, Picks for shaw deals on the books for me to have any confidence in his abilities regardless of what stage he is at.

Sure if all his deals were Danault for vets then Im on board but his whole tenure has been like a movie without a plot line.  "We need speed - not, we need size - no, we need grit - no, we need character - no, we need attitude" 

 

Yeah we're all tired of all the excuses he keeps spewing. In the meantime what's so disturbing is that Molson backs him up 100%. What a waste of time and a waste this team's reputation.

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7 hours ago, Born-To-Be-A-Hab said:

Edmonton is the team we should be dealing with ,if we're trading Price and Weber 'or Patches . 

100% agree.  They have oodles of potential players for us and Chiarelli is the kind of guy who would probably still covet a Weber type player. 

Not sold MB will deal any of them (aside from Patches) though.

 

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5 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Cavaliers lost and LeBron reportedly wants out. What are the odds the Habs could sign him as a 1C?

I saw him smile at some point during the presser after the sweep, he clearly doesn't hate losing enough.

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I'm only like half joking, a part of me honestly believes that with a year or so of dedicated practice he could at least be a strong ECHL/AHL level player lol. 

Dude an athletic god. He's Zdeno Chara height and built like an NFL defensive lineman with Gaudreau's agility. It's bonkers. 

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18 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

I'm only like half joking, a part of me honestly believes that with a year or so of dedicated practice he could at least be a strong ECHL/AHL level player lol. 

Dude an athletic god. He's Zdeno Chara height and built like an NFL defensive lineman with Gaudreau's agility. It's bonkers. 

You're right! That guy could have been anything. Hockey, baseball, MMA, football... anything! Athletes everywhere should be counting their blessings that he didn't choose their sport because he would dominate

 

No one ever said that about Mike or Kobe. Just saying ;) 

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Latest 31 thoughts said some GMs think Bergevin is interested in trading down and grabbing one of the top defensemen. If that's Hughes I'm excited.

Less exciting was his sense that Montreal could be a top destination for Jack Johnson. That would be a really poor signing, 2 years in a row getting the most overrated UFA defenseman available for far too much money. 

He also just reiterated that sign and trade seems like the most likely scenario for Pacioretty. It's really going to be a shame to see him go but it's time, a team this bad can't afford to be spending tons on high end but not elite players pushing 30 years old. 

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2 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Latest 31 thoughts said some GMs think Bergevin is interested in trading down and grabbing one of the top defensemen. If that's Hughes I'm excited.

I guess it depends on what we get.  If we can get a young #2 centre + another team's top 6-7 pick for 3ova then sure. But if its just another LW or RD I wouldnt be too excited.  I imagine he (MB) woudl be smart enough to wait till carolina picks though, right?  There is talk they may take Zadina because of his connection with Necas.  If Svechnikov is available at 3OV you HAVE to take him.  If its down to Zadina or Tkachuk or whatever then i can see the value in filling another roster hole, and dropping back a few spots because there are some potential top pairing D available.

 

2 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Less exciting was his sense that Montreal could be a top destination for Jack Johnson. That would be a really poor signing, 2 years in a row getting the most overrated UFA defenseman available for far too much money. 

Totally agree.  Whats the point also?  Lets say we take a guy like Hughes, who probably is NHL ready and maybe even top 4 ready.  That gives you Weber, Petry, Hughes and Mete  all decent top 4. You can argue you have 1 top pairing and 3 second pairing guys at this point, but either way, Jack Johnson is not better than those 4 and there's no upside like Mete and Hughes have. 

We have tons of options for the 3rd pairing in Reilly, Juulsen, Alzner, Benn, Valiev, Schlemko etc etc. 

There is really no need for more defensmen on this roster unless they are better than (at least one of) Weber, Petry or Mete. 

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2 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Latest 31 thoughts said some GMs think Bergevin is interested in trading down and grabbing one of the top defensemen. If that's Hughes I'm excited.

Less exciting was his sense that Montreal could be a top destination for Jack Johnson. That would be a really poor signing, 2 years in a row getting the most overrated UFA defenseman available for far too much money. 

He also just reiterated that sign and trade seems like the most likely scenario for Pacioretty. It's really going to be a shame to see him go but it's time, a team this bad can't afford to be spending tons on high end but not elite players pushing 30 years old. 

1. I've said what Jedi has said here too, which is that you wait until after the 2 pick is made to make any trade (unless you get really blown away), just in case Carolina was bluffing and drafts someone other than Svechnikov or in case they deal their pick to someone else.

2. I'd be excited about Hughes too. I've seen a decent amount of video on him and he's a fantastic puck carrier and skater. Maybe the best skater in the draft and someone who can certainly bring fans out of their seats with how he wheels through traffic. There are definitely questions about his size, physicality, and defence, but you look at other great-skating defencemen who really don't play any type of a physical game and you can see how dominant a player like Karlsson can be or how great players like Housely, Leetch, Dan Boyle, Ellis, etc. have been. So he's the type of guy who has a pretty good chance at succeeding in the NHL.

3. When discussing a trade down, I think you have to think about how many guys you'd be excited to get. Like Bergevin said, when you finish as poorly as you did, you want to make sure you get the one reward that goes with it and get a high pick that you can't just access otherwise. Having 3 picks in the 15-30 range just isn't equivalent to having a top 5 pick. You can't reliably reproduce top 5 picks, so wherever you're picking if you trade down, you need to make sure you're still getting a guy you would have chosen where you were slated to pick. We know Zadina is the logical #3. I think you can make an argument for Kotkaniemi and Hughes there. After that, I think it gets dicey. I'm not sold on Tkachuk at 3. I don't think Bouchard and Dobson fit the bill, nor does Veleno. Boqvist is a bit of a wildcard for me, because I think he's got high potential but also a higher possibility than the rest of the top 10 of being a full-on flop as well if he doesn't adjust to the North American game and rink size. And I think Wahlstrom is the opposite, whereby he'll be a solid scorer at the NHL level, but I'm not sure he'll be a guy you can build a team around. More like a Kessel, Pacioretty, etc. So for me, the answer for where you can trade down to is #5 to guarantee you get one of Zadina, Kotkaniemi, or Hughes. I think you might be able to justify going to 6 if you think the likelihood is high that someone's taking Tkachuk in the top 5, and I think you might be able to go down to 7 if you are really focused on Kotkaniemi and the trade is good. But that's why dealing with Arizona and ending up at 5 is probably the best possible trade down for us, because at 5, I'd be perfectly happy with any of those 3 players listed above.

 

 

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With respect to Jack Johnson, he's overrated and he's past prime, albeit I still think he'd be an upgrade on what we had last year. He's better than Alzner, Benn, and Schlemko. However, it's very clear the Habs need to dump all three of those players and that they could be better just by that subtraction. The 6 best guys going into next year as it stands right now are in some order Weber, Mete, Juulsen, Petry, Reilly, and then maybe Valiev or even Benn. So there's a need for at least one more guy who's not Alzner/Benn/Schlemko. Even if you draft a D man in round 1, there's no guarantee he'll be ready and you can't force that fact without having  a back-up plan. So you do need to have someone else.

Should that be Johnson? Ideally not. But we could also do worse as well. We do have some prospects like Brook and Fleury and so on who might be able to make the jump sometime, and you never know if we'll deal Pacioretty or Weber or Price for a top 4 D man. So there are other ways to get a D man. But short-term, I don't have an issue if we used Jack Johnson for a year or two as a bridge. The conditions simply need to be the following:

1. The contract should ideally be one year and two at max. We're not competitive right now, so I'm okay with using Johnson short-term, but you can't have it screwing up your future.

2. Schlemko and Alzner absolutely have to be gone and now just on buyouts. You can't be paying those buyouts AND be paying Johnson.

3. He's really a Plan B. You don't target Johnson the way Bergevin targeted Alzner. He can't be your plan. When free agency starts, you need to be having conversations with the guys like Tavares and Carlson. If you can land free agents or make trades to make yourself competitive right away, you can't be spending money on a guy like Johnson. He's really a guy you're okay with using short-term IF you're not likely to win a Cup and you have oodles of cap space to use short-term.

If those conditions aren't met (and they likely won't be) then I'm agreed that Johnson isn't the guy to target, but I think a lot depends on circumstances rather than ruling him out completely.

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22 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Does anyone think Bergevin would be in for Milan Lucic? He was interested a few years ago, if I remember correctly. At the age of 30, can we expect Lucic to rebound from his 34-point 2017-2018 campaign?

Gosh i hope not.   Id take Lucic if Draisatl came with him. mind you.     You would have to think with that cap hit, his age and last season he's got to be a negative value but who knows.

Lets hope MB has finally given up his fetish for slow lumbering players. 

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15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

1. The contract should ideally be one year and two at max. We're not competitive right now, so I'm okay with using Johnson short-term, but you can't have it screwing up your future.

 

This is why I want them to stay away, a short-term deal will never happen. He's 31 and realistically might be out of the NHL in 2 or 3 seasons, so I don't think he'd be willing to take the risk on a short-term deal with Quebec taxes considering his bankruptcy. I bet he ends up with a similar deal to Alzner with Smith, Kulikov, Russell, etc. as comparables. As a player he's fine, he's an OK low-end 2nd pair guy and he'd probably still be the best overall LD on the Habs but that's a pretty low bar, and he doesn't make any sense for the Habs.

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