2017-18 If I Were GM

[maas_art]

35 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

 if we win without him wouldn't it be beneficial to make a 'decent' deal just to get rid of his cap hit?

For sure but i think either way we could get a pretty substantial return for him assuming we're ready to move him in the next year or so.  Despite what advanced stat guys think of him, there are a lot of GMs who would pay handsomely for Man-Mountain, unfortunately I think MB is at the top of that list. 

[BigTed3]

Here's the thing: our D is atrocious. It's atrocious with Weber and it's atrocious without him. Petry has been single-handedly carrying the load the past few games, playing almost half the game last night. But look at our D otherwise... Alzner is slow and can't move the puck, Benn is slow and can't move the puck, Morrow is a disaster on skates defensively, and Mete doesn't get to play any more. Jerabek's the only other guy who managed to contribute positively.

So why do we keep bringing up the fact that Weber isn't Subban? Because Weber, as much as he's been our best defenceman this season, is a guy you need to complement in order to get the most out of him. Like most of the rest of our D, he's slow and he doesn't move the puck up ice that well. So his presence, while it makes our O zone presence better, doesn't really help to address the deficiencies with our D corps as a whole. The past two games, we've benefited from Carey being hot, but we've also seen more Petry, and Petry has been able to make up for some of the shortcomings on D because he's a better skater and puck-mover than the rest. Petry's not as good as Subban, and he still needs help from his partner, but I think his skillset as a whole fits better into what this team is missing on defence.

All that to say that Weber is still a useful player, but the Habs need to get a top pairing puck-moving left-handed D man to complement him. Otherwise, he just fits in less well. Given his age and expected decline and given his enormous long-term contract, I'd move Weber in a heartbeat if we could 1) get younger and 2) use a trade to fill more than one hole (i.e. get a replacement defenceman AND fill a hole at center for example). If I thought we could win now, I'd probably hold onto Weber and try to add the guy we need next to him. But since I don't think we can win this season, the best move IMO is to deal Weber and find players who can be useful now but more importantly fill needs for the long-term as well. We know the Oilers are looking to shake things up. We know the Isles want to be buyers and make trades to convince Tavares to stay. I think teams like Dallas and Pittsburgh and Washington and Toronto could be looking to add a guy like Weber if we can make the money work.

But let me throw out another team... Minnesota. Here's another squad that's in win-now mode. A lot of their core players like Koivu, Suter, Dubnyk, Parise, Staal, and so on are over 30 and are still signed long-term. They've under-performed a bit this year too, but you have to feel like they'll want to make a move to push all in rather than sit on all those contracts forever. We also know Suter and Weber have played well together in the past, so maybe there's some familiarity there that helps. We've heard rumors of Minny being willing to part with Niederreiter in a trade, so I wonder if something along the lines of Weber and Byron for Niederreiter, Dumba, and Eriksson Ek would be of interest to Minnesota. They give up a decent amount of younger talent, but they get themselves a top 4 d of Suter-Weber, Brodin-Spurgeon and get a cheap winger in Byron to fill a stopgap for one of the lost forwards.

[jeff33]

last year I suggested captain patch for leddy, josh bailey and a 1st.

Josh Bailey has 28 pts in 24 gp this year

and you all said no. I bet if you called and asked for that package now theyd laugh and hang up the phone

Jeff for GM 2017!

[maas_art]

20 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If I thought we could win now, I'd probably hold onto Weber and try to add the guy we need next to him. But since I don't think we can win this season, the best move IMO is to deal Weber and find players who can be useful now but more importantly fill needs for the long-term as well. 

 

Totally agree & totally agree with your entire post.  Unfortunately this sentence says it all about the team MB has built.  I think he genuinely believes we can win now. And that will end up hurting us in 2 ways.  Guys like Weber and Pacioretty etc who are full-value right now wont be moved. Guys like Galchenyuk or prospects who are below value, most likely will. 

Thats fine if you're Dallas & you're Joe-Neuwendyk away from winning a cup - you move Iginla. But when you've got gaping holes at basically every position besides LW, RD and Goal, you cannot afford to move young players for guys who will make you better for 1 - 2 years. 

[maas_art]

As the days go by and Tavares remains unsigned I have to wonder if we have what it takes to make a push for him. 

We have a few huge pluses going for us. Namely:

1) Cap space.  Hey, we've got tons!
2) Roster space!   Most teams have a #1 or at least a #2 centre.  We can actually guarantee JT would get the best ice time on the roster.
3) Linemates:  Depending upon who we have to move to get him, he's going to end up with 2 of Pacioretty, Drouin, Galchenyuk or Gallagher as his wingers. 
4) High profile roster - friends -  (Weber, Price etc - these are Team Canada vets who know JT well).
5) Hockey market.  I get the sense JT wants to play in a real hockey town. Not (m)any better than MTL.

So I think its pretty obvious we'd be the right fit for JT and he'd be the right fit for us.  The question (assuming he doesnt resign with NY) is:  What will it cost to get him (and is he even interested in signing with us now vs going UFA ?) 

To me, you'd have to send him a young player like Galchenyuk.  I mean id love to send Pacioretty (or Weber) the other way, but i dont see NY going for that... but then it is snow, so you never know.

What would you give up to get JT?  Can we do it without gutting the team?

 

 

[Regis22]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

So I think its pretty obvious we'd be the right fit for JT and he'd be the right fit for us.

Pretty sure we had the same discussion regarding Stamkos and we know where that ended up .

There's lots of place Tavares would be the right fit and his home town would be one of them

 

 

[Regis22]

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

What would you give up to get JT?  Can we do it without gutting the team?

A couple of weeks ago we were talking about gutting it .

[maas_art]

8 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Pretty sure we had the same discussion regarding Stamkos and we know where that ended up .

There's lots of place Tavares would be the right fit and his home town would be one of them

Yes and no.  TO definitely has some positives but one they dont have that we do is a vacant #1 position.  In toronto he would split duties with Matthews. In Mtl he'd be #1 by a wide margin. 

[maas_art]

7 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

A couple of weeks ago we were talking about gutting it .

Right but the talk was trading guys like Weber and Pacioretty and Price.  I dont think NY wants those guys. They likely want Galchenyuk and/or Drouin and/or Mete etc and my point is, can we acquire Tavares without losing too many key young core pieces. 

[Regis22]

10 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yes and no.  TO definitely has some positives but one they dont have that we do is a vacant #1 position.  In toronto he would split duties with Matthews. In Mtl he'd be #1 by a wide margin. 

He'd have a better chance of winning a Cup  in Toronto

[Regis22]

10 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Right but the talk was trading guys like Weber and Pacioretty and Price.  I dont think NY wants those guys. They likely want Galchenyuk and/or Drouin and/or Mete etc and my point is, can we acquire Tavares without losing too many key young core pieces. 

We'd still be a mediocre hockey club with a great goalie

[eldag]

6 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

We'd still be a mediocre hockey club with a great goalie

Agree .. I don’t believe we can trade our way out of the mess Bergevin created. Major surgery is required but this little spurt of better play recently has killed any chance of that happening... 

[Habberwacky]

I would not trade for him this year. If he wants to be here we can sign him in the summer for nothing (other than cash). Trading for him and losing him would be not be a good move in my mind unless of course they want Hemsky and Mccarron

[maas_art]

On 12/4/2017 at 7:05 PM, eldag said:

 I don’t believe we can trade our way out of the mess Bergevin created. 

I think we could easily trade our way out of the mess if we had a GM who realized we had a mess.  MB still thinks we're on track i believe.    Bring in a GM who can see our strengths & weaknesses & we're a contender within a couple of years.  Wont happen though.  Molson will give MB plenty of rope. 

[Windoe]

"Attention elite Cup contenders, your window is now, trade your future for our present!" - touts the Montreal GM that is ready to rebuild.

"25 yo Shaw for that team that knows the playoffs are gritty and needs a great character guy.

28 yo Byron for that team that needs to boost their speed, penalty killing and forechecking.

29 yo Pacioretty for that team that needs a leader and proven goal scoring left winger.

29 yo Petry for that team that needs some defensive depth for their next few Cup runs.

29 yo Price for that team that needs to lock down their goaltending and increase their odds of winning the Cup for the next 5-7 years.

31 yo Weber for that team that needs to add a #1D with a howitzer for their next few Cup runs.

32 yo Montoya for that team that needs a bit of goaltending insurance just in case.

34 yo Plekanec for that team that needs a defensive forward with playoff experience.

Accepting high picks and elite prospects only.  Get 'em while they're hot."

And yes, if we still had PK, he'd be on this list too: "28 yo Subban for that team that needs a creative and energetic offensive defenseman in the prime of his career".

After decades of scratching by, and mediocrity on the horizon, Montreal is ready for a rebuild.  Its time to take one step back, so we may skate two steps forward.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, my question to you, who would be your GM candidates to lead the rebuild?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kinot-2]

6 hours ago, Windoe said:

"Attention elite Cup contenders, your window is now, trade your future for our present!" - touts the Montreal GM that is ready to rebuild.

"25 yo Shaw for that team that knows the playoffs are gritty and needs a great character guy.

28 yo Byron for that team that needs to boost their speed, penalty killing and forechecking.

29 yo Pacioretty for that team that needs a leader and proven goal scoring left winger.

29 yo Petry for that team that needs some defensive depth for their next few Cup runs.

29 yo Price for that team that needs to lock down their goaltending and increase their odds of winning the Cup for the next 5-7 years.

31 yo Weber for that team that needs to add a #1D with a howitzer for their next few Cup runs.

32 yo Montoya for that team that needs a bit of goaltending insurance just in case.

34 yo Plekanec for that team that needs a defensive forward with playoff experience.

Accepting high picks and elite prospects only.  Get 'em while they're hot."

And yes, if we still had PK, he'd be on this list too: "28 yo Subban for that team that needs a creative and energetic offensive defenseman in the prime of his career".

After decades of scratching by, and mediocrity on the horizon, Montreal is ready for a rebuild.  Its time to take one step back, so we may skate two steps forward.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, my question to you, who would be your GM candidates to lead the rebuild?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

A guy who "knows" hockey in the new NHL. A guy who knows how to evaluate talent. A guy who doesn't overpay for talent. A guy who doesn't have a foxhole. A guy who we need, but don't have.

[jeff33]

14 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

A guy who "knows" hockey in the new NHL. A guy who knows how to evaluate talent. A guy who doesn't overpay for talent. A guy who doesn't have a foxhole. A guy who we need, but don't have.

adroit.

it should be noted that "guy" probably doesnt buy any single one of those sales pitches lol

[eldag]

53 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

A guy who "knows" hockey in the new NHL. A guy who knows how to evaluate talent. A guy who doesn't overpay for talent. A guy who doesn't have a foxhole. A guy who we need, but don't have.

Very admirable qualities to have as a GM in the NHL but unfortunately you missed the only quality that counts in Montreal: speaks French

Now .. that attribute has nothing to do with assembling a winning team however who thinks this owner or the French media wants a winning team? 

[ramcharger440]

7 hours ago, eldag said:

Very admirable qualities to have as a GM in the NHL but unfortunately you missed the only quality that counts in Montreal: speaks French

Now .. that attribute has nothing to do with assembling a winning team however who thinks this owner or the French media wants a winning team? 

to say the owner does not want a winning team is silly! the media does not care either they can still trash people whether they win or lose. as for the french thing i agree it is limiting the choices they have but at the end of the day there are top notch french coaches and gm level talent out there i just don't think we have them on our team! i look at a guy like Jullian Brisebois and i see a guy who could be a killer gm i never really liked Jullien as a coach nor was i big on Therien but Vignault in New York was pretty good. i just hope we don't get another retread as coach we need some new ideas and a more open coach who will play the kids.

[habs1952]

8 hours ago, eldag said:

Very admirable qualities to have as a GM in the NHL but unfortunately you missed the only quality that counts in Montreal: speaks French

Now .. that attribute has nothing to do with assembling a winning team however who thinks this owner or the French media wants a winning team? 

Too your point: http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/what-the-puck-second-rate-canadiens-generating-first-rate-profits

 

The worst moment this week for Habs fans wasn’t the Canadiens losing to the not-so-mighty Calgary Flames. It wasn’t listening to Max Pacioretty whining in sad-sack fashion about his lacklustre play.

The most depressing piece of news was to be found in the annual Forbes article on the value of National Hockey League teams. The piece noted the Canadiens’ value increased 12 per cent during the past year and that the team is worth US$1.25 billion, placing it third on the list of most valuable NHL teams, behind only the No. 1 New York Rangers and the Toronto Maple Leafs.

That is a pretty fabulous return on the investment the group led by Canadiens president Geoff Molson made in the team. The consortium paid former owner George Gillett US$575 million in 2009. Obviously, these financial results are great news for Molson and his partners, an ownership group that includes Bell, the Woodbridge Company, the Quebec Labour Federation Solidarity Fund and businessmen Michael Andlauer and Luc Bertrand.

The Canadiens had revenue of US$236 million last year and operating income, shorthand for profit, of US$92 million. That’s the second-best operating income in the NHL, behind only the Rangers.

If you’re a fan, these stellar revenue and profit numbers should not be warming your heart. That’s because your Montreal Canadiens are making bigger and bigger bucks even though the product on the ice is more mediocre than ever. Where’s the motivation to improve the club if you’re making a profit of nearly US$100 million?

Where’s the motivation to change your mediocre management when the cash is rolling in?

[maas_art]

Stole this trade idea from a different message board.  I am not sure if the Kings would go for it but its the type of move that MB needs to make with a team like LA or Edmonton etc.

 

Pacioretty (4.5m/yr), Alzner (retain 20% of his salary, so 3.4m/yr), a 2019 3nd rd pick and a 2018 5th rd pick (from LA)

For

Muzzin (4.0m/yr), Vilardi and Clague

LA apparently had offerent Alzner a contract so there is (or at least was) some interest.  Muzzin is a huge upgrade obviously and is the main return for Pacioretty (with Alzner still slotting into their top 4).   The key for us is Vilardi.  Can he be a #1C down the road? Tough to say.  He's projecting as such but obviously its a risky move.  At this point though, if we can turn a guy like Pacioretty into a legitimate #1LD  and add a top end centre prospect, I think you gotta go for it.  

[habs1952]

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Stole this trade idea from a different message board.  I am not sure if the Kings would go for it but its the type of move that MB needs to make with a team like LA or Edmonton etc.

 

Pacioretty (4.5m/yr), Alzner (retain 20% of his salary, so 3.4m/yr), a 2019 3nd rd pick and a 2018 5th rd pick (from LA)

For

Muzzin (4.0m/yr), Vilardi and Clague

LA apparently had offerent Alzner a contract so there is (or at least was) some interest.  Muzzin is a huge upgrade obviously and is the main return for Pacioretty (with Alzner still slotting into their top 4).   The key for us is Vilardi.  Can he be a #1C down the road? Tough to say.  He's projecting as such but obviously its a risky move.  At this point though, if we can turn a guy like Pacioretty into a legitimate #1LD  and add a top end centre prospect, I think you gotta go for it.  

You'd have to hope LA hasn't scouted Alzner this year.

[kinot-2]

6 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

You'd have to hope LA hasn't scouted Alzner this year.

^^^ This

[maas_art]

1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

You'd have to hope LA hasn't scouted Alzner this year.

Well thats where being a good GM would come in.   You'd have to sell the sizzle:   "I know you guys offered Karl a contract this summer.  He's such a great teammate but he just is not gelling with Claude's system.  You guys run a standard man system vs. our zone, lets get you that player you wanted this summer.  Heck, we'll even keep part of his salary."

 

of course Mb hasnt shown himself to be greatest at praising his players... 

[eldag]

okay here's an easy one I'll lob Bergevin's way ...............

 

Weber, Patches, and one of GallyA/Drouin plus our first 2018 draft pick for Karlssen. Karlssen is gonzo so there is no doubt Ottawa needs to deal. That leaves a big hole on their "D" and they cannot hope to land an equivalent offensive talent to replace Erik so presto ... you get the ultimate shut down guy who plays big minutes and bring in the scoring with Patches and GallyA or Drouin plus a high pick. They won't do much better than 3 high roster players from anywhere else and Montreal has the cap space for Karlssen. The beauty for Bergevin is he can justify trading Weber on this deal and in one fell swoop get rid of GallyA (possibly) or Drouin who is a bust and replace the offense and flair he lost with Subban leaving making people forget all about two disasterous trades plus saving his job!!!!!   I believe Karlssen is the one player who might turn the sad sack Habs into a contender again and he is still young enough to be a cornerstone. Not a bad core to start with the best defenseman and best goalie on the planet ......