Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens

2017-18 If I Were GM


BigTed3
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

I m not a big fan of the guy but in all fairness he doesn't have a legitimate # 1C nor does he have ANY D men who feed him the puck . The one he had last yr is PLaying in Russia and the one the yr before is playing in Nashville.

Looks like JD and AG aren't cut out for being C's

To some degree I agree with that but, IMO, Max certainly doesn't go out of his way to help himself or his linemates. it seems to be all about Max.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What do we expect Tavares is going to sign for next season? $9 million? $10 million? More?

My guess would have been 11-12M a season on a max deal (7 or 8 years). I would think it should be less than McDavid, but the cap is expected to rise, so I'd think it'd be pretty close...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those people looking for the closest comparables to Pacioretty in terms of guys drafted around the same time as him with similar production, the best examples are Brad Marchand, Wayne SImmonds, and Logan Couture. Sometimes it's easier to assess what you think a team would give up for a player when you look at other guys who might be worth something similar... if we try to construct something similar to what we'd be asking for in Bennett/Klimchuk/Vilimaki, that's be like SJ asking us for Galchenyuk-Scherbak-Juulsen for Couture or Boston asking the same thing for Marchand. And Galchenyuk is a more established player than Bennett, so I'd argue the ask is even less than if other teams wanted those three guys from us. So if if if we were a team very close to competing for a Cup, would you give up those 3 guys to get a Couture or Marchand? That's what we'd be asking Calgary to do for Pacioretty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still want to trade everyone and do a real rebuild. But watching sportsnet and hearing that Tavares still wants to see what's out there despite the arena situation being settled and that Penguins want to move Letang.... It's unlikely but if they wanted to take one more stab at it before committing to a rebuild... well those are the two players we need. Letang is a right shot but so what, we deal with it and play him with Weber anyway.

Highly unlikely but I guess I just wanted to posit an example of what it would take for me not to want to go full fledge rebuild because its going to take a Tavares and Letang to give us a CHANCE at a cup.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We could really re-establish ourselves as competitive if we, like other members have mentioned, are able to sign Tavares, turn Weber or Pacioretty into something that better meets out immediate needs, and remove some of our terrible defenders from the lineup. We NEED to improve at center and LD. Tavares would immediately give us the boost we've been looking for at center for years. Improving at LD... I'm not so sure how we do that, but I believe there are probably some creative solutions out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

Letang is on the wrong side of 30 yrs old Suffered a stroke and had herniated disc surgery

Agreed with HRF, he's still make the D better, even if he's not really an ideal acquisition. Personally, I think we should be going for younger, cheaper players, and I don't think trading for Letang is the right direction to go in. That said, every trade that has been proposed here, you've deemed it to be "too good to be plausible" or "not good enough." So I'm curious to know what you'd do as GM... who would you trade and for what return?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Agreed with HRF, he's still make the D better, even if he's not really an ideal acquisition. Personally, I think we should be going for younger, cheaper players, and I don't think trading for Letang is the right direction to go in. That said, every trade that has been proposed here, you've deemed it to be "too good to be plausible" or "not good enough." So I'm curious to know what you'd do as GM... who would you trade and for what return?

Pacioretty for a bag of new pucks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It wont happen
Do what the Leafs did a few years ago
Clean out the front office , get a new GM , who cares if he cant speak French, get  new scouts, Current management seems to be stuck in the

" old " NHL

Get rid of a bunch of players for prospects , hope you draft and develop better

It will be painful for a couple of years but so what its painful to watch this now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

It wont happen
Do what the Leafs did a few years ago
Clean out the front office , get a new GM , who cares if he cant speak French, get  new scouts, Current management seems to be stuck in the

" old " NHL

Get rid of a bunch of players for prospects , hope you draft and develop better

It will be painful for a couple of years but so what its painful to watch this now

And I fully agree with that. That'd be my approach too. I don't think a rebuild has to be that painful any more. You get a couple of top draft picks, you make some smart trades with the assets you have, and you can reset 2/3 of your roster within 2-3 years. I think you deal Pacioretty, Weber, and probably Price too. I think you dump Plekanec, Benn, Schlemko, Shaw, and Alzner. I think you don't have to actively shop them, but I'm also open to deals for Petry, Gallagher, and even Galchenyuk. I'd try to keep Hudon, Danault, Lehkonen, Mete, Juulsen, Jerabek, Lindgren, Drouin, maybe Galchenyuk and work around that... but I'm still curious as to whether you have a specific deal to suggest for any of the guys we dump or anyone specific you'd hire as GM or coach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

It wont happen
Do what the Leafs did a few years ago
Clean out the front office , get a new GM , who cares if he cant speak French, get  new scouts, Current management seems to be stuck in the

" old " NHL

Get rid of a bunch of players for prospects , hope you draft and develop better

It will be painful for a couple of years but so what its painful to watch this now

Agreed. :2008122810303:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

 I think you dump Plekanec, Benn, Schlemko, Shaw, and Alzner. 

Agreed but then guess what .....lol.........1/2 that awesome D that MB put together is gone any you have to rebuild it ,,,,again . With what ? I don't know what's out there . The farn tea is bare .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

... but I'm still curious as to whether you have a specific deal to suggest for any of the guys we dump or anyone specific you'd hire as GM or coach.

GM and coach aren't going anywhere . They just signed CJ for 5 years and MB , isn't he signed for a long time.

Problem is the guy you hire HAS to be bilingual.

I don't know whats out there .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

i'm still curious as to whether you have a specific deal to suggest for any of the guys we dump 

I would love for Tavares to play for the Habs but I don't think the Isles will let him go and if he were to become an UFA I don't think he would pick the Habs . I just don't think he would want to come to Montreal . Very few players do in the prime of their careers.

This team IMHO needs to get a real # 1 C . Then lets see if everyone else can fall into their proper place . I think now this team is a mess . There are guys on the PP that shouldn't be there , Wingers playing C and then playing D on the PP . JUggle the lines all we want nothing seems to be able to work for more than a couple games. A lot of players are playing like crap and AG seems to be the only one who gets his ice time reduced .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Agreed but then guess what .....lol.........1/2 that awesome D that MB put together is gone any you have to rebuild it ,,,,again . With what ? I don't know what's out there . The farn tea is bare .

Agreed. One of the big problems with going for a rebuild is that the GM has to admit the team that's been assembled is not good. That's why you usually see rebuilds occur when a new regime has been put in place. However, today's NHL is not the same as the league that existed 10 years ago. With the cap and today's parity, teams simply can't afford to retain all their homegrown talent any longer. You can be a UFA at 26. And so there is more raw talent out there on the trade market and on the free agent market than there used to be. Stamkos got really close to being a UFA. Tavares is heading there. I think he stays with the Isles, but I think he's also interested in knowing what his value is to other teams and using that as leverage. And maybe just maybe if the Isles are not looking like contenders after this season is over and maybe just maybe if another team gets the chance to make a mind-blowing offer, he leaves. I don't think it's set in stone that he's staying where he is, even if the status quo is the most likely scenario.

So re-building a D is actually not the end of the world. I always ask myself what parts we could keep that are in the right chairs, and the problem right now is still the top end. It's just really hard to find a true #1 defenceman. Subban was one. Maybe Sergachev would have been one. Maybe Karlsson becomes available, but it'd be next to impossible to have a good enough offer to convince Ottawa to ship him within the division and still have enough players left to be competitive. So maybe you can go fishing for a guy like Seth Jones, Werenski, Sanheim, Vilimaki, or so on and hope they can be that guy, but again, it's going to cost you in a trade. I don't think we have another #1 guy in the organization. So the next best thing for now is two #2 guys, which we maybe have with Weber and Petry. Petry has certainly looked like a top pairing guy when Weber isn't there, but he's looked less convincing other games and he certainly isn't benefiting from playing with Alzner. I'm not sure Weber will be able to remain a top pairing guy going forward, and he's more of a top PP guy, but less of a top pairing guy at ES. So to me, we're better off trading Weber, and maybe we get back a player who can be a top pairing guy for more years as a result. Barring that, I see Mete as a 2nd pairing D man, maybe a bit more with time if we get lucky. Juulsen can hopefully step onto the 2nd pairing on the right with time. Jerabek could be okay as a third pairing guy. So I think we have maybe 3-4 guys in our organization that we can work with. The big hole is trying to fill the 1st pairing LHD slot. That's what really needs to be re-worked, but again, I think you have to use Pacioretty, Weber, and maybe Price as bait to land that player.

 

5 hours ago, Regis22 said:

GM and coach aren't going anywhere . They just signed CJ for 5 years and MB , isn't he signed for a long time.

Problem is the guy you hire HAS to be bilingual.

I don't know whats out there .

Julien Brisebois seems to be the only bilingual GM candidate anyone talks about. He seems to have a good rep, but then again, Bergevin came with a lot of promise simply because he came from the winning Chicago culture. After that, guys you hear about as potential GM's are just jokes: Vincent Damphousse? Please. He spends a lot of his time talking about grit and character as well, albeit he has been on record saying he doesn't think the coach needs to be French, which is maybe the only positive. Pierre McGuire? Uh oh. Dudley? More of the same. Trevor Timmins? Not Francophone, maybe interesting but it's unclear how much of the drafting errors were his own or forced upon him, and if he's going to be another re-tread, it doesn't help. There hasn't been anyone out there that's been thought of who I've been excited about.

It's funny, because the guy who ran the behindthenet analytics site came onto twitter recently after a long absence and went on a rant about today's NHL and how teams were going about hiring GM's in a backwards manner. He said that most guys got their jobs because they were either ex-NHLers or because their fathers were in hockey, but that almost none of them were deserving of their jobs and that none really grew up with an eye for evaluating talent. He stated that there were 3 exceptions in the entire league: Lamoriello, Chayka, and Gorton. But everyone else was using a family name or a guy who was given the job on the assumption that playing the game at the NHL level gave you the know-how to be a GM. He stated that in today's NHL, with so much parity and with loser points, it doesn't take a genius to build a team that hits 93 points or higher. He points out Las Vegas having everyone's cast-offs and still on track to make the playoffs and maybe win a division, and he says even Paul Bissonnette could build a team that goes to the playoffs. If we look at Bergevin, the guy inherited Price, Pacioretty, Subban, Gallagher, Markov, Plekanec, and a 3rd overall pick. And he's mucked around and made the team worse but they've still managed to hang around because he had enough good leftovers to not fall flat on his face. People toss around the "yeah but the job is much harder than it looks, do you honestly think you could have done better?" and I think about it and I think I could have. I think a lot of people could have. A lot of isn't about contract negotiations or pulling off one big trade. It's just about common sense. Don't trade one of the best 3 defencemen in the league for a past-his-prime, older, slower guy on a worse contract. There was zero facets of that deal that we won. Weber's not bad, he's just worse than Subban at almost everything. Don't trade for or sign Ott and King and Nesterov and Martinsen and Alzner and Murray and Bouillon and Schlemko and Morrow and Deslauriers and Froese... so how do you win? You get a better scouting staff, you draft well, you develop your players, you play your skill youngsters, and you don't bench those guys for little mistakes while going full force defending your grinders. Julien is a better coach than Therrien in terms of systems and in terms of being a better communicator and human being, but the guy chose Dwight King over Galchenyuk last year. He chose Froese and Deslauriers over Galchenyuk and Hudon this year. It just makes no sense. None. You might win a shift or even a game at a time with decisions like that, but there's no long-term vision doing that. King and Martinsen and Deslauriers and Morrow and Alzner are not winning you a Cup. Galchenyuk and Hudon and Mete and Jerabek might help you, but not if you keep treating them like they're nobodies.

So does it really matter who we pick as our GM? Or our coach? I think the most important thing now is finding a guy who drafts well and then doesn't try to out-guess the statistics and common sense.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My fingers are crossed that Tampa Bay absolutely pummel us tonight and we're one step closer to being sellers at the deadline. The team needs to be restructured. I cannot see MB being willing to trade Shea Weber or Karl Alzner (maybe Alzner?), but we'd probably be able to deal Tomas Plekanec, Max Pacioretty, and Jordie Benn. Perhaps even Paul Byron could be useful to deal for a pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

My fingers are crossed that Tampa Bay absolutely pummel us tonight and we're one step closer to being sellers at the deadline. The team needs to be restructured. I cannot see MB being willing to trade Shea Weber or Karl Alzner (maybe Alzner?), but we'd probably be able to deal Tomas Plekanec, Max Pacioretty, and Jordie Benn. Perhaps even Paul Byron could be useful to deal for a pick.

I guess the real question is whether MB thinks he'll be around next season.  If we work our way out of playoff contention (yes, barring a miracle we are already, but MB clearly sees the glass as half full) then he has to think he's done - 6th year of a 5 year plan, we're older, weaker and miss the playoffs in year 6?  -  so does he play the good soldier & sell off assets for picks & prospects or does he do something foolish like AG for a 30+ year old centre?  Overall Pierre Gauthier made much better trades than MB (with a clear direction) but once it was clear he was probably getting fired he made a couple of panic moves that were not in the teams' best interest. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't value AG that much. He's borderline top 6 winger, he will not be anything more. As much as we talk about 30+, in the new NHL at 23 you are what you are and you peak at 25. I would like to trade AG for draft picks, which we could also get for a 30+ Center. If he can get a #1 center and #1 D then he should do it cause it will make us a real team... but I don't think that is possible. 

I want to rebuild. Trade Price, trade Chucky, Weber, Pacioretty, Shaw, Alzner (if you can), and in return I want draft picks and former 1st rounders from the last couple of years. No wingers. I want defenseman and centers; wingers and goalies are a dime a dozen and we can worry about that later. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I don't value AG that much. He's borderline top 6 winger, he will not be anything more. As much as we talk about 30+, in the new NHL at 23 you are what you are and you peak at 25. I would like to trade AG for draft picks, which we could also get for a 30+ Center. If he can get a #1 center and #1 D then he should do it cause it will make us a real team... but I don't think that is possible. 

I want to rebuild. Trade Price, trade Chucky, Weber, Pacioretty, Shaw, Alzner (if you can), and in return I want draft picks and former 1st rounders from the last couple of years. No wingers. I want defenseman and centers; wingers and goalies are a dime a dozen and we can worry about that later. 

A total rebuild is absolutely the only way left after the mess Bergevin has created however the first step to any rebuild has to be firing Bergevin which doesn't appear to be in the cards. Therefore ... the actual first step of a rebuild in Montreal has to be the fans stop supporting the team to the extent of 3 or 4 thousand empty seats every night at the Bell Centre. Once this debacle starts to cost Molson money .... then and only then Bergevin gets fired and the rebuild can start!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Windoe said:

Missing the playoffs in year 6 of a 5 year plan MUST be the end...for MB or anyone else.      

Wouldn't it be something if the crowd could start chanting "Rebuild Rebuild Rebuild!" at the home games...

They "should" be chanting "Marc must go". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The evolution of Marc Bergevin:

 

"Grit and character are very important"

"We're always looking to add players who speak French"

"I want guys who hate to lose"

"Carey Price should be back in a week or two"

"Michel Therrien is a Foxhole guy"

"I am not looking to trade PK Subban"

"If the fans want to blame someone, they should blame Marc Bergevin"

"I will not trade Sergachev or any of my top prospects"

"Markov and Radulov will be welcome back on my terms only"

"The answer is in that room"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...